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Offseason Planning: Point Guards

The point guard position has been a festering sore for the Lakers since the '08-'09 season, when it became apparent that Jordan Farmar was a flawed and substandard solution and that Father Time had begun to push Derek Fisher off the cliff. Since then, the Lakers' near-mystical "point guard of the future" that would solidify the team's rotation has become something of a cliche, sparking a great number of unrealistic yet highly entertaining trade scenarios involving every marquee point guard in the league. Regardless, the Lakers appeared to make strides towards solving this issue this past off-season with the signing of Steve Blake, whose playing style and demeanor fit the mold of a traditional triangle point, notably since he had played a similar role as Brandon Roy's backcourt mate in Portland. Needless to say, Blake, like Farmar before him, proved painfully inadequate, and the Lakers' point guard production was so anemic this past season that not only was it the worst in the league, it was comparable to the assorted flotsam that manned the Nets' small forward position.

In previous seasons, however, this problem has been thrown under the bus primarily because the Lakers thankfully ran a system in the triangle that didn't require their point guards to do a whole lot. The point guard would bring the ball up, make the initial pass, and go spot up in the corner or the wing and repeat if the offense needed to be reset. Indeed, a traditional point guard, as in one who probed the defense, ran a good deal of pick-and-roll, and utilized his court vision to create opportunities for the other players on the court, was counterproductive for the Lakers' needs, as the triangle minimized those responsibilities and essentially made the point into a glorified two guard without much of the ball-handling responsibilities. Moreover, with Kobe having more healthy digits and Gasol as one of the best big men in the game at distributing from the high post or the low block, there was much less of a need in that regard.

Cue the Lakers' off-season, in which we have seen the departure of Phil Jackson and the entrance of Mike Brown, which, following the long overdue eviction of Kurt Rambis in Minnesota, hails the end of the triangle in L.A., and indeed, the league at the moment. As such, Brown will bring a much more conventional offense to L.A. that will be based on the offense San Antonio ran at the turn of the century with David Robinson and Tim Duncan as the main focal points. After the jump, we'll review how the roles of the Lakers' point guards will change in this new offense, how the Lakers current personnel fit this template, and whether there is any help available in free agency or on the trade market.

Star-divide

The change in offense, if anything, is one tailored to our big men, and one that they can particularly take advantage of. As NBA Playbook's Sebastian Pruiti notes, Gasol and Bynum can fill much of a similar role as Duncan and Robinson did in the Spurs' sets that maximize the efficacy of having two multifaceted and highly skilled big men on the floor at the same time. What changes for the Lakers' point guards, especially as versus the triangle, however, is their more direct role in the offense. In early offense situations, the Spurs' quickly advanced the ball up the floor and with either big capable of posting up, the first immediately went to the rim while the point (or whatever guard taking the ball up the floor) fed the ball to the trailing big who would take the ball at the high post and throw a quick entry pass to the first big who had established deep position by then. This specifically isn't a huge change, and indeed, is very analogous to the manner in which the Lakers played in the '08-'09 season, but it does require the guard to do more than walk the ball up the floor.

The more significant change comes in a more traditional half-court scenario, in which the Spurs often created opportunities off the pick-and-pop. As Pruiti indicates, having one big as a shooting threat from mid-range or inside the arc creates a wealth of opportunities off the pick, as the other big will attempt to seal his man low at the same time. After the guard comes off the pick, he has the option to 1) go all the way to the rim if a lane if available, 2) pull up for a jumper if he has enough space, 3) hit the big who set the pick if he is open for the jumper, 4) throw an entry pass to the other big if he has sealed his man in the deep post, or 5) hit either wing in the corner should they be available for a shot. To properly do this, however, the ball-handler coming off the pick-and-roll needs to be 1) actually a threat to penetrate into the heart of the defense if a lane is available, 2) pull-up for a shot, and 3) have the court vision to make the necessary read in that situation. Needless to say, this is a big departure from the triangle, which does not contain an extensive pick-and-roll component beyond the two-man game on the sideline and whenever Kobe went into end-game hero mode.

It also raises the question of how our current point guards can deal with this new change, seeing as they were already terrible in a system designed to mask their faults. With this in mind, let's evaluate how our current corps of point guards fits into this new system and whether any trades or free agent signings are available or appropriate.

Internal Solutions

It should hardly be a shock that this is an offense ill-suited for both Derek Fisher and Steve Blake, neither of whom have ever been noted for being exceptionally adept at traditional point guard skills. The stats also bear this out, as both averaged a meager 0.68 and 0.56 PPP respectively as the ball-handler off the pick-and-roll last year. While those opportunities were sparse in the triangle, along with the fact that last year's offense was mostly a wreck on most nights, it also passes the eye test, as both don't have the speed or ball-handling ability to be a threat to penetrate off the pick and are liable to be trapped if the team "blitzes" the pick, an increasingly common strategy nowadays pioneered by the Celtics. Of the two, Blake likely is slightly better mainly because he possesses better court vision, something borne out in his better runs this past season, and likely wouldn't have that much trouble making the simple pass to the big setting the pick or the post entry pass if he has enough space. This likely owes to his time in more conventional offenses in past years, and is the same reason that Fisher, who has spent the majority of his career in the triangle, is an especially poor choice.

As such, the Lakers will often require a ball-handler outside of the aforementioned two to initiate the offense and reduce both of them to the off-guard role they are better suited for. The obvious solution is letting Kobe take on more of the ball-handling responsibilities, as he easily passes every requirement above, and his still formidable scoring ability puts a lot of pressure on the defense when forced to deal with him coming off a pick. While this is the most practical method and likely the one that will be implemented the majority of the time, it also comes with some noted downsides. First is that Kobe is not, and likely will never be, largely a distributor in this scenario as that's simply not his approach to the game. There is no doubt he can make the right read, but it is easy to imagine that his natural instinct in that scenario is to find the best scoring option for himself. This isn't a knock on Kobe, as his superlative scoring ability makes this entirely justified, but he isn't going to fulfill a similar role to say LeBron, whose natural instinct is to pass off the pick, and be the primary ball-handler nearly every time down the floor executing the play. Moreover, Kobe without the ball in motion, likely coming off screens, is something that likely will come in the playbook of recently signed assistant coach Ettore Messina, and is arguably more dangerous in that situation than coming off a pick.

The other immediately apparent solution is to let Lamar Odom handle more of the point guard responsibilities. Last season, Odom averaged 0.93 PPP off the pick-and-roll, which, aside from being quite impressive, makes sense on several levels. A 4-5 pick-and-roll, a relative rarity in the league, forces both bigs on the perimeter to make a decision in terms of how they cover it, and more often than not, creates an opportunity for the ball-handler. For Odom, who is easily capable of taking an open lane all the way to the rim or rising up for a shot behind the arc, this is especially true. One could also see Kobe or Artest fulfilling the role of the other big by attempting to acquire deep position, as both are decent post players in that spot and big and strong enough to seal their man down low. Like Kobe, however, it is difficult to see Odom in a purely distributing mode in this case, and while he has impressive court vision for a player at his position, that does not necessarily extend to him taking on the grand majority of the ball-handling responsibilities.

The last set of internal solutions revolves around the Lakers' two rookies, Darius Morris and Andrew Goudelock. As I noted when I reviewed the Lakers' acquisitions on draft night, both Morris and Goudelock are adept at using the pick-and-roll, but for largely different reasons. Morris, a pure point guard in the Andre Miller mold, is capable of surveying the floor off a pick and and distributing after penetrating or going all the way to the rim. Of all the possible primary ball-handlers on the team, Morris likely possesses the best court vision simply because his role is based largely on it; most draft prognosticators labeled Morris as the best pure point in the draft and he did an excellent job running Michigan's offense in his sophomore season. Conversely, Goudelock, whose shooting range is positively ridiculous and can sink shots with an inch of space, uses the pick-and-roll to give himself easier opportunities to score. He has some ability to distribute off a pick and hit open players, but similar to Kobe, he's invariably looking for his own shot.

From this, we can discern that all the solutions to this issue are largely imperfect. Blake, Kobe, and Odom all have their faults in a traditional point guard role while Morris and Goudelock still need to cut their wisdom teeth on some real NBA play. Before we evaluate how the Lakers could make the best of this situation though, let's look at any outside help the Lakers could possibly bring in.

Free Agents

One source where this definitely won't be coming from, however, is free agency, given the fact that this year's free agent crop for point guards is absolutely terrible. Rodney Stuckey and Aaron Brooks, both restricted free agents, lead the class and neither is a solution to the Lakers' problems. Stuckey has more or less confirmed that he's a two guard between his slashing ability and lack of solid point guard chops. Brooks, a long-noted scourge of the Lakers, is an interesting prospect given his speed and shooting ability, but both guys are out of the Lakers' price range. Even if the new CBA preserved the mid-level exception, something that appears highly unlikely, both Detroit and Phoenix would jump at the opportunity to lock up their respective players at what would be fairly affordable rates for them. After that, you have J.J. Barea, he of the recently crowned champions, who will likely earn a big contract for his work in the playoffs; Mario Chalmers, who is barely more adequate than Fisher or Blake at the position as well as a restricted free agent; and a long listed of assorted flotsam, including Mike Bibby, Carlos Arroyo, Earl Watson, and T.J. Ford. As inadequate as the Lakers' current bunch of point guards are, there isn't going to be any help coming in free agency, and with Fisher and Blake on long-term contracts and Morris as a developmental project, there isn't any room to add a player who isn't a clear upgrade.

Trades

The primary problem with looking towards the trade market is that the Lakers don't exactly have a lot to offer among the players they're willing to give up. If the Lakers are getting rid of Gasol or Bynum, equivalent value basically boils down to Chris Paul or Deron Williams, and neither is going to be on the trade block at the moment. Odom is a more compelling trade asset due to his favorable contract that is basically expiring because it becomes non-guaranteed if he receives a buyout following next season. However, if the myriad reports before the draft are to be believed, the Lakers were in discussions with Philly concerning getting Andre Iguodala in exchange for Odom, and if that's the value the Lakers can get for him, it behooves them not to waste him by trading for a lesser point guard, especially since Odom can act as a point in a pinch.

On the lower end of the acquisition scale, the Lakers have hardly any compelling assets, but do have a roughly $5.5 million trade exception in which they could acquire a player with a salary less than that while sending nothing in return. Hardwood Hype's Emile Avanessian, who was kind enough to provide us with a post a few days ago, rightly notes that Ramon Sessions is a possibility the Lakers could pursue. With Kyrie Irving's development now center stage in Cleveland and Baron Davis still difficult to move, that leaves Sessions as the most likely candidate to be traded, especially since he isn't an effective off-guard. It remains to be seen whether Sessions would command more significant interest around the league, as he's been a solid per-minute contributor thus far in his career, is young and has a manageable contract; but if he was available, I'd imagine the Lakers would be willing to take in his contract with the trade exception while sending back any of Ebanks, Caracter, or a protected 2012 first rounder.

It is important to note that any such acquisition, including Sessions, would be opportunistic and largely driven by circumstances independent of the Lakers themselves. The only reason Sessions is available is the logjam in Cleveland, and even then, it's doubtful that the Lakers' offer would be the best on the market. Moreover, the Lakers would have to take on salary in any such a deal, which the organization has been adverse to doing recently. Altogether, a trade would be the only method of directly resolving the Lakers' point guard problems, but I wouldn't count on it as a certainty at this juncture.

As such, with the free agent market terrible and a trade not likely, the Lakers must make do with their current personnel as best they can. Of the above choices, the most likely scenario is that Kobe and Odom split a good majority of the ball-handling responsibilities, which, as previously mentioned, is imperfect but carries with it a particular set of advantages as well due to the pair's versatility. Blake would also be involved whenever he is on the floor, although one would imagine that the more he is limited to spotting up in the corner, the better for the offense overall. Similarly, Fisher's role would be almost entirely downsized to spotting up in the wing or the corner, as he's likely the worst suited of all the Lakers' current guards in terms of a more conventional offense.

Finally, while Fish likely will get minutes out of respect for his veteran status and as a sop to Kobe, it's hard to imagine why the team wouldn't benefit from giving 10-15 minutes to Morris and seeing how he copes with that responsibility. His court vision and passing are definitely NBA ready skills and he is likely the Lakers' sole long-term method of addressing this problem. Certainly, it makes more sense than trying to imagine Fisher performing any better in an offense that barely accommodates him, and as difficult as it is to imagine how he could possibly get any worse as a player, it is a much higher possibility than him turning over a new leaf at age 37. Moreover, the Lakers don't need Morris to be a star, but a stabilizer capable of keeping the offense humming and there are a whole lot worse scenarios in the league for Morris than having Kobe and Gasol to pass to. In a small bench role, the expectations for Morris aren't high, but developing him is better than the Lakers trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by playing Fisher and Blake more. If Morris doesn't pan out into anything useful, then the Lakers at least bothered to use their available assets and explored all possible avenues instead of simply wasting him. The Lakers' poor approach to player development and utilizing the draft since the '08 season has resulted in much of this current predicament -- cue obligatory Toney Douglas reference -- but here wouldn't be a bad place to start.

Next in this series, we will cover the Lakers' wings and their possible roles next season.

Poll
What role should Darius Morris fill for the Lakers next season?
Starting of course. Bring on the future!
214 votes
Bench player. Be cautious with his development.
390 votes
Garbage time player. Need a new victory cigar.
39 votes
D-League prospect. He can't handle the big boys.
32 votes

675 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 71 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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I'm hoping Morris pans out to be useful.

This is where the summer league would be useful to, in a way gauge his NBA readiness. Oh well, here’s to hoping he makes an impact for the team.

"They call me the Muffin Man"

by true_lakerfan on Jul 27, 2011 10:25 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not sure more pick and pops with Gasol is what the offense needs.

That’s all Gasol did in the Dallas series and it didn’t turn out too well. As much as Bynum needs to be on the low block, I want to see Gasol on the low block to get his game going before he goes to the high post.

Ball don't lie.

by East.Coast.Laker.Fan on Jul 27, 2011 10:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Well, they'll be alternating

in this system. Gasol had the better range and was much better with passing, so he was pegged as the high post man most of the time in the triangle because Drew didn’t do anything when he wasn’t outside of the painted area. Hopefully, they’ll prove to really be interchangeable.

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 27, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

this is gonna be a very interesting season

i hope morris turns into our tony parker or rajon rondo. itd be nice to have a dangerous point guard again

"i look skinnier in HD" - charles barkley

by j squared on Jul 27, 2011 11:02 AM PDT reply actions  

We could use depth at every position

we’ll see how this new system works for Blake and Fish, but I think the Lakers drafted Morris with an eye for him as the future

The other thing about trading for another PG is then we’ll officially have a logjam at the position if we don’t trade one of our PGs we already have. I think we’d have to wait until the season started, see how folks are shooting and playing and then see if we can pawn one of our PGs into a deal to get a PG back.

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT reply actions  

i really want t see morris do well.

he’s got the skills and he has more than enough size. if there’s anything i’m a sucker for, it’s point guards with size.

Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.

by LOOOeee on Jul 27, 2011 12:32 PM PDT reply actions  

TWSS

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 27, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

First and foremost

Fuck the lockout.

by Volta on Jul 27, 2011 1:22 PM PDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

And fuck Dallas.

by Wil G on Jul 27, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

and fuck the Heat

I think thats an appropriate statement at any time.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Looking forward to reading the "Shooting Guards" piece.

I may be one of the few Lakers fans who thinks KB 24 should have retired after last season’s 2nd round debacle. With Phil retiring and taking the Triangle with him, with the admittedly slight but no less steady erosion of Kobe’s skills and health over the past couple seasons, and with a cyclone of strategic uncertainty and game plan change we can’t [yet] believe in, I don’t think the future is particularly bright for Kobe, and I don’t look forward to seeing him getting crossed up, ran past, and dunked on by every 5-10 year-younger player looking for payback on “Ole Man Bryant.”

The only good thing about Magic’s retirement was that he went out on top. We never saw him play a season too many (not withstanding the ‘96 comeback), or look like a shell of his former self on the court. I think Kobe is now entering that territory, and it’s sad. Do yourself and your family a favor Kobe and get out while your knees still work!

by Wil G on Jul 27, 2011 1:35 PM PDT reply actions  

lol wut

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 27, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I now understand your avatar.

Either that or this is Ric Bucher in disguise.

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 27, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I blog under the name of Earpiece.

It’s been a while, but check out http://tellmewhyimwrong.wordpress.com/ if you have a moment. It’s pretty heavy shit, as we mostly deal with politics, society and race, but often throw in some ignance (spelled just as we pronounce it) to stay sane.

And no, I am not Ric Bucher. Just a brotha from the 909 in Cali.

by Wil G on Jul 27, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

So your silly comment was bait to read your blog?

I’m sure your “s***” description is accurate.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 27, 2011 11:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Silly Comment?

What exactly was “silly” about it? Kobe will be in his 16th season next year, has arguably lost a step on offense and has clearly lost several steps on defense. He is the best player of his generation, and is my 2nd favorite Laker of all time (behind Magic, of course), so I’m definitely not a KB-basher or a Laker-hater. I consider what I said an unpleasant truth.

As for the blog advertisement, my avatar is—I can’t believe I have to actually explain this to you—of a guy with a ridiculous 90s cell phone rubberbanded to his ear, whom I call Earpiece. SCG mentioned it, so I explained the back story.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Silly in the way that you exaggerated Kobe's condition to make the point that he should retire "on top".
KB 24 should have retired after last season’s 2nd round debacle

Even the most neophyte Kobe fan would see the error of this thinking. This isn’t who Kobe is. He is the most fierce competitor in the NBA and will battle hard while he can and will know when to hang it up. I realize you seem to fear having a hero look wiped out, but don’t you think he’ll hang it up before looking washed up? He isn’t Shaq.

steady erosion of Kobe’s skills and health

Perhaps your this is just your salting with too many adjectives, but you make it sound as if Kobe needs to get out because he’s hanging on by a thread. Far from it.

I don’t think the future is particularly bright for Kobe

Obviously he’s a few seasons past his prime, but again this is an exaggerated point made to try and support the idea Kobe should step aside while he has some respectability left.

a shell of his former self on the court. I think Kobe is now entering that territory

Another example of the comments above.

We get that Kobe’s is on the back end of his career, but just slow down with the he’s crumbling apart comments. The training, conditioning and care Kobe puts into his body has kept him playing at an elite level with the best in the history of the NBA. Don’t be surprised if he is still going strong the next few seasons.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 28, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did you go to the Fox News School of Revisionist and Decontextualized News?

Sigh. While I did say Kobe’s skills and health were eroding, I also said it was admittedly slight. Not so much that it looks like he no longer belongs in an NBA uniform, but so much that he will very soon be going from a 25-5-5 guy to a 20-3-3 guy, then a 14-2-1 guy, and so on—and probably while shooting nearly the same volume and percentage because his mind stays in perpetual mamba mode.

That’s just not something I want to see.

And as for me predicting or foreshadowing that his future may not be bright, how can that be an exaggeration?? First, how can one overstate what has not yet occurred and is purely meant to be speculative, and second, how many people play as well past their 15th season as they did during their 5th or even 10th season? Doesn’t logic say his future will not be as bright as his past??

If this line of reasoning is “silly” then we probably shouldn’t even continue this conversation. I could say more but it’s really just becoming theater at this point, so I’ll say thank you for the fun and spirited debate.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, your "KB 24 should have retired after last season's 2nd round debacle" gives lie to this.
Not so much that it looks like he no longer belongs in an NBA uniform

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 28, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still??

Cuz I was gonna let it ride… Unless you really want to keep this up??

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

One can have a wonderfully bright future and still be on the way to retiring.

Naturally there will be a decrease in Kobe’s production, but he can go out on a high note and I imagine he will continue to manage himself in a way to do so. If he were dragging out the inevitable and being a boat anchor to the good ship Lakers I’d likely agree with you, but you’re premature.

As to further in-depth discussion, I’ll pass. After reading your comments and your blog posts it is clear you are the type who rarely admit a fault, structures comments with an open-ended, escape route which allows you to constantly tweak the interpretation of your words to save face. Mostly your comments are overstated, pretentious and not to the point. Moving on.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 28, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

You should google "straw man argument," then not do it.

I guess thanks for visiting the blog, and for the spirited debate.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

cool story bro

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess." - Kobe Bryant

http://twitter.com/asianmon

by Lupe24 on Jul 27, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most players in the league would love...

to be even an “Ole Man Bryant”. This is one of the more laughable comments I’ve read lately. Erosion of Kobe’s skills and health?! Really?

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 27, 2011 11:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wouldn't most people love to be Ole Man Bryant???

He’s a millionaire, is famous, and is one of the best to ever shoot a one-legged left-handed leaner over three defenders. However, the erosion of his skills is not debatable. Your apparent man crush aside, I’m sure you remember, time after time, his defensive assignment blowing by him for a layup or to set someone else up this past season. Half of the time it looked like Kobe wasn’t even trying on defense, which makes his All Defensive Team selection even more of a head scratcher (as noted by bloggers on this very site).

Offensively I’d still put him in the top 3-5, even though his ability to shoot his team out of the game has also been well-documented on SS&R.

But I think you’re missing the point. I’m not debating whether Kobe is great. Larry Bird was probably still saying God was disguised as Michael Jordan when Jordan shoved off Bryon Russell, hit the jumper, won the title and Finals MVP, then summarily retired from basketball because his coach left, took his system with him, and left him with the same uncertainty that is now facing Kobe, who, by the way, will tie Jordan for number of seasons played next year, but hasn’t had the brief periods of retirement respite that might have saved Jordan’s body from a couple extra bang ups.

All I’m saying is I don’t want to see what is now and will surely continue to be the gradual erosion of Kobe’s skills and play, which comes with more injuries, less quality minutes, and poorer decision making due to the fact that his body can no longer do what his mind still believes it can.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.

He might even still be better than 97 or 98% of the league, given that there are roughly 400 players in the NBA, and most people would be hard pressed to name 10-15 who are right now better than him.

No doubt about it, he can still ball.

I was never debating that.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are so many things wrong with this I'm not sure where to begin

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 27, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe start with the quotes around Shooting Guard

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 28, 2011 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Or you could start with "Looking..."

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 28, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry to have upset you all.

I’ll spare you the smug, passive-aggressive, resentment-riddled response, and let’s just agree to disagree.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right!

So on to more mutually agreeable topics in Lakerland.

by Wil G on Jul 28, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

trade

trade fish for backup big man start blake and eventually start morris n sign a free agent pg by the end of the season

by awesome11102 on Jul 27, 2011 5:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Ugh if only my 2k11 player was real!

As a Laker he was ROTY and Finals MVP averaging 35 pts 7 rbs and 9 ass a game with a PER of 45! Even Henry Abbott would be on his jock!

Affectionately,
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,
NBA’s All-Time Leading Scorer

by afrikabamboodle on Jul 27, 2011 5:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Truer words were never spoken!
The Lakers’ poor approach to player development and utilizing the draft since the ‘08 season has resulted in much of this current predicament — cue obligatory Toney Douglas reference — but here wouldn’t be a bad place to start.

I really hope the Lakers break this trend and give Morris, Goudelock and Ebanks some real playing time next season. I’m really intrigued by the possibility of young legs on the Lakers again. Bring back the bench mob!

by SmokeAndAshes on Jul 27, 2011 6:48 PM PDT reply actions  

This is an excellent analysis, Ben!

Well written and handled thoroughly from every angle.
It got me thinking…Would we rather see the Lakers get Dwight Howard, or land an elite PG? With the Triangle out, PG seems to be the priority. I know some of you will say “Get both.” But that seems unlikely.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 27, 2011 11:44 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Depends a lot on the PG

Paul/Howard might be a coin flip, although I’d lean towards the guy who has been indestructible so far in his career as versus the guy who might need microfracture in a few years. Williams/Howard clearly leans towards the latter for me, and I don’t think any other PG that will be available is worth it. Makes you wonder what it would take to get Nash from Phoenix though. They have to trade him sometime, right?

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 28, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

psssshh

I honestly think that they think their loyalty to him will keep the fans looking the other way.

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 28, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Added a poll. Feel free to take a crack at it.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 28, 2011 12:04 AM PDT reply actions  

voted for starter

/pipedreamFTW

Chukwudiebere Maduabum FTW!!!!!!!
twitter

by shaqfor3 on Jul 28, 2011 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

starting isnt really important

I just want him to get starter minutes.

Chukwudiebere Maduabum FTW!!!!!!!
twitter

by shaqfor3 on Jul 28, 2011 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just want the kid to at least get a crack

and a chance to earn starter’s minutes.

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Jul 28, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I went to your twitter page

Expecting to find a sweet deal on bros… but there aren’t any bro sales there at all, let alone 12 bro sales.

That’s disappointing bro, disappointing.

For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
lebron should just lock himself away and not talk for the rest of forever-LA32

by 99bc99 on Jul 28, 2011 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hahahahaha

I’ve heard that joke so many times.

Still, well played, sir. Well played.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 28, 2011 3:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

lmao

Mo' Everything
"Please remember: it's not my fault your team sucks." - DexterFishmore
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916

by bluexfalcon on Jul 28, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 28, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is great! Just made my birthday funnier, thanks.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 28, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

its your birfday today!?

dude, have a good one mayne!

Mo' Everything
"Please remember: it's not my fault your team sucks." - DexterFishmore
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916

by bluexfalcon on Jul 28, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, blue!

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 28, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously, without Phil, the Lakers are going to have a different type of offensive

scheme that will not be a perfect fit for Fisher like the triangle was. But, even then, the Lakers still cannot get a player that has a score first type of game especially if he is on the floor with Kobe. So, if the Lakers do get someone else, they will be better off looking for a defensive minded PG who can shoot from beyond the arc. Wait! isn’t that what Blake is for?

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Jul 28, 2011 12:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Thats what Blake is supposed to be for

But the guy was worse than Fisher last season and was way to tentative shooting the ball. Some of the tentativeness I’m sure had to do with the triangle, but he did nothing last year to lead me to believe he’s a better option than Fisher for next year.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right now, Fisher is the starter

And he should be the starter. He’s still the best PG on this team and until Morris shows something, you go with the guy who hasn’t missed a game in 3 years. I’d have no problem moving Morris into a larger role or the starting lineup as the season goes on so long as he shows something off the bench. Hopefully Mike Brown will give him the opportunity to show what he can do.

I still think a trade needs to be made. I love Fish, but you’re right here. He’s aged to the point where his quickness and ball handling ability doesn’t allow him to penetrate off the pick as easily as other guards. Also, since he’s spent almost his entire career in the triangle, he hasn’t had to be a playmaker (which accounts for his low assist totals). Now, in Mike Brown’s offense he does and it’s easy to see him struggle. Morris is a big question mark, and Blake is coming off an awful year.

Hopefully a trade is made. It may not be so in the triangle, but PG is very important position in any conventional offense and certainly an offense that Mike Brown is going to use. And Fisher’s days of being able to be a solid option in that sort of role went by quite a few years ago.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 7:29 AM PDT reply actions  

If Fisher said to himself

“I’m not going to do ANYTHING on the court besides shooting open 3’s, I think he would still have some value, but since he is going to continue to take pull up jumpers (which he is probably the worst guard in the league at doing) and take it to the rack (definitely worst guard in the league) I’d almost give the majority of PT to the rookies instead. Seriously, could the rookies contribute LESS than Fisher and Blake did last year?

by Archon on Jul 28, 2011 9:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Fish isn't the worst guard at pull ups

There are some PGs (and great ones) in the league that really can’t shoot. Rondo, Devin Harris. Westbrook struggles with his shot. There are more. So I wouldn’t say he’s the worst guard in the league at any kind of jumper. But definitely trying to drive, he should never do that again unless it’s wide open on a fastbreak.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I beg to differ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyJ_o7XMP98

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 28, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you for taking about ten minutes of my day

Because I just watched that about 20 times. Absolutely beautiful. I love playoff Fisher.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

My overall point is

Fisher taking anything other than a wide open 3 is a bad shot. Unfortunately he takes a lot of bad shots. It’s baffling because Fish on offense was never really good at doing anything other than shooting 3’s, but he seems to be trying to “expand” his game as it’s detoriating.

 It ain’t personal, I love Fish and what he’s done for the Lakers, it’s just that outside of hard to quantify “intangibles” Fisher is hurting the Lakers.

by Archon on Jul 28, 2011 10:02 AM PDT reply actions  

I hear you

But the Lakers don’t have a better PG right now. And unless they get a legitimate upgrade at the position his role isn’t going to change. Thats why some move needs to be made, because there’s no triangle for him to hide in anymore.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he is hurting the lakers also BUT!

I respectfully disagree. He takes good shots he just isn’t making them. I have no idea why. In all seriousness Kobe takes worst shots than Fisher.

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Jul 28, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

He makes the threes

He was 40% last year. Seems the closer to the basket he is, the lower his shooting percentage is.

CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!

by nyyrocks29 on Jul 28, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Disagree

Fisher generally takes pretty poor shots for a guy who should be taking primarily threes. When 40% of your shots are long twos, and 70% of all your shots are inside the arc, that says quite a bit for his decision-making. Passes the eye test also, mainly because it’s painfully memorable when he does something that isn’t a three since it ends disastrously most of the time.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 28, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I'm saying is unless the rookies are compete busts

there are probably better basketball players then Fisher is right now, at least on offense. Who would you have rather played last year Ebanks or Luke Walton?

 Similar situation as far as I’m concerned.

by Archon on Jul 28, 2011 10:20 AM PDT reply actions  

Always like pieces like this coming out and substantiating my point afterwards
Before the lockout, Blake met with with Coach Mike Brown and “enjoyed meeting with him and talking to him” about the team’s offense. The two didn’t discuss playing time, but Blake came away from that meeting knowing he needed to prepare for playing at a faster tempo. That’s why most of his off-season work at his home gym centers on drills, such as taking spot-up jumpers and attacking the basket.

Then there’s the offense itself.

Though Phil Jackson’s coaching staff credited Blake for learning the triangle offense last season, he still appeared tentative in his role, a feeling he says is not likely to return because of his increased familiarity with a faster-paced offense.

This year it’ll be a more traditional point guard role,” Blake said. “This past year, we had a two-guard front where a lot of times I wouldn’t even bring the ball up. Now it’s more of a typical point guard role I’ll probably be able to excel in more. I’ll be more comfortable in being able to just react and not have to think as much. You’re always thinking. But the triangle is different. You have to learn it a lot more. This will be easier for me to acclimate to this new offense. I think I’ll be more successful that way.”

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/07/steve-blake-spending-offseason-on-his-shooting.html

Nice to see that he isn’t resting on his laurels with his shooting either.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 28, 2011 4:10 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL, what laurels?

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 28, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Touche

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Jul 28, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he was resting on Metta's laurels.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 28, 2011 4:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

While Metta was resting on his haunches.

In order to be irreplaceable one must always be different. - Coco Chanel
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jul 28, 2011 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

It would be nice if the Lakers didn't have logjam at the point.

I like Morris getting minutes this season. You’re not going to maximize a player’s development by having him watch and not play. If the Lakers trade Steve Blake, they could sign Trey Johnson as a back-up combo guard who can play and defend either guard position. He could be Kobe’s primary back-up too. Fisher just shouldn’t dominate the minutes at point guard.

by E-ROC on Jul 28, 2011 4:35 PM PDT reply actions  

wo wo hold it

First off, mike bibby is not Flotsom, he has a lot of talent its just that, as you said Lebron handles the ball. Bibby is a deadly outside threat, can pass the ball, has good court vision and is a solid PG its just that his role in miami is tiny. Are you really forgeting his seasons in Sacramento, were he was a beast, averaging over 20 points in a season. His stats in the last couple of years have dipped significantly due to injury and reduction of minutes due to injury and on the heat it was because Lebron runs the court and is the primary ball handler.

Secondly, you forgot about Shannon Brown, due to this being a post heavy offense that Brown has brought to the table you are dealing with entry passes, not the hardest in the world to make. Secondly, Brown can hit the longball given the opportunity and given the extra time on the court Shannon might actually develop into a very solid starting player. With this option the lakers dont spend jack and can use their trade stock/cash on other positions, such as backup bigmen. Have D fish bench for shannon, the old geezer can teach him brown a thing or two and can play for 10 minutes a game.

by bFJ on Aug 22, 2011 2:36 AM PDT reply actions  

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