Robert Horry Says What We're All Thinking
It's always fun when someone makes news by pointing out the obvious. Robert Horry has done so with comments he made at the ESPY's last night that were published on the LA Times website this afternoon. Asked what the Lakers need to do to restore their championship form, Rob zeroed in on the position that was pretty much an oozing sore all season long: point guard.
No disrespect to Derek Fisher. Derek is long in the tooth. I've been there, done that. They need a point guard who can distribute the ball, get everyone in order and not be afraid to tell Kobe no. You can't outrun age. I think age has caught up to him.
Rob's off base in one respect. Fish is actually not at all afraid to tell Kobe no. It's everything else that's the problem. He stopped being a starting-caliber PG a few years ago. At this point he should be transitioning into an assistant coach's chair, but he remains at the top of the Lakers' depth chart because of residual affection for his past heroics and the team's yearly failure to draft, sign or trade for someone good enough to displace him.
What interests me about Rob's statement isn't the substance of his point about Fish, which is indisputably correct, but how it shows that Fish's immunity to criticism is starting to break apart. For years Fish has had a privileged spot in Lakerdom, held aloft from even the mildest public opprobrium. We, the unaffiliated media, of course have long questioned Fish's viability as the Lakers' starting point guard. But a code of silence has prevailed within the organization that prohibits anyone from speaking ill about him.
Think about when Phil Jackson used to "coach through the media" by zinging his own players. Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Ron Artest... everyone had to take their share. But not Fish. When people within the organization have diagnosed why this or that loss took place, it's always: Kobe broke the offense, or Pau was too passive, or the bench got outplayed by the other team's. Nobody's allowed to point out that it's sometimes hard to win when your point guard shoots 1 for 6 every third game and can't really guard anyone.
Robert Horry isn't employed by the Lakers, but he is a Lakers insider. As a revered member of the Laker diaspora, his statements carry weight that others' do not. So to hear a guy in his position speak out about the team's point guard problems - saying not just that the backup needs to be upgraded, but that Fish needs to be replaced - is both jarring and encouraging.
We all love Fish and appreciate what he's done for the organization. He's secured his place in Laker history many times over. But fond memories can't create dribble penetration or guard Chris Paul. There comes a time when you need to let go of the past and get on with the business of putting a real point guard on the floor. The Age of Fish is over. The only question is, who's willing to admit it?
Follow Dex on Twitter @dexterfishmore.
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Perhaps we should make an offer to David Kahn to be an assistant GM...
after all, he loves drafting point guards and Mitch has failed at upgrading the position for at least three straight years now.
by Actuarially Sound on Jul 14, 2011 9:16 PM PDT reply actions
Between Morris' court vision and Goudelock's shooting
As well as the fact that both of them can run a pick-and-roll, I’d call them an upgrade over Fish, although that wasn’t that big of a bar in the first place.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
problem is, who can we get who fulfills those requirements?
and in all fairness, i don’t think horry was saying that fish is afraid to tell kobe “no”, but rather i think he was just saying that the point guard we need to get needs to be able to do that.
"Thoughts are aplenty. Most of 'em not good." - Derek Fisher
thats what i was thinking to
Lebron needs verizon, he aint getting no ring - New Boyz
by purple_gold on Jul 14, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It isn't far fetched to say that Mike Browns
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
by Joshua S on Jul 14, 2011 11:03 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Oops...
Try this again. It isn’t far fetched to say that Mike Brown’s success depends on the answer to this question and how soon it gets answered. If Kobe gets uptight about not starting or moving Fisher then we can assume either: 1. Kobe sees his own mortality in Fish and isn’t ready to come to grips with it, or 2. Fisher’s Intangibles include Jedi Mind Tricks for the ultra competitive minded. Fisher’s worth for me was his playoff leadership and although it is clearly in his character it isn’t carrying out onto the floor in championship caliber. Love you Fish, but time to get out the news paper and roll you up.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
by Joshua S on Jul 14, 2011 11:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Thank heavens we have Steve Blake!
Ermm…
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
lebron should just lock himself away and not talk for the rest of forever-LA32
As if he's been outrunning anybody -.-
No disrespect to Derek Fisher. Derek is long in the tooth. I’ve been there, done that. They need a point guard who can distribute the ball, get everyone in order and not be afraid to tell Kobe no. You can’t outrun age. I think age has caught up to him.
Kobe is hated for winning; LeBron is hated for losing.
desecrator of Juventus
Truth.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
"make em eat your bubbles" - Cup Noodles
I get the idea Darius Morris is (sadly or not) the answer to our question.
In three years or before, he may prove to be a Darren Collison. A solid young point guard who surprised everyone. I don’t know, it’s just this gut feeling inside me that gives me this idea that we’ve got a serious candidate for Rookie of the Year. Somehow, we find ways to eff up point guards (Toney Douglas, Jordan Farmar come to mind), but this is Mitch’s big break. Goudelock may become our next Vujacic, but Darius Morris may be just what we need – a solid point guard who sticks to his role. The fact that nothing is expected of him is better. I don’t know, I might be on something, but that’s how I feel about our PG sitch.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." – John Madden
3 years?
Agh… As long as we don’t repeat the Kwame “Stone Hands” Brown era I guess i won’t mind
"I don't mind being the goat. I don't mind being the villain, hated. I've been that my whole career, so it's not like that's anything new. I don't mind people jumping on the bandwagon or jumping off. I just focus on playing the game." -Ron Artest
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
Sad but true, Fish, it is time to relish the mentor role.
I am always one to ride the vet until he proves unworthy. Better to squeeze that last year out of a known, than rebuild a year early.
Once again, his role isn't changing unless they get a real replacement
He’s still the best point guard on this team- sad, but true. And if they don’t get anyone then next season (whenever it starts), he will be the starting point guard again.
I love Fisher. He’s one of my favorite players and I appreciate what he’s done for this team. In fact, I don’t think it’s out of the question to say that his number should be retired when he retires. But it’s time for him to go be a backup or at the very least have very diminished minutes as a starter. Unfortunately, that isn’t happening until they actually get a replacement.
CALL UP JESUS MONTERO!
Fish's poor play will probably affect the Lakers even more next year,
The triangle doesn’t really require great point guard play since it requires passing and decision making from pretty much every one (Who isn’t named Ron Artest) to be successful. However, there’ll be no triangle for Fish to hide within from here on out, and his lack of ability to create for himself or any one else is going to be exposed even more next year. If he’s not replaced or Morris/Goudelock doesn’t exceed expectations, the offense will probably take a sharp hit.
Fish has been always been a target for criticism whenever the Lakers lose.
Fish is still the same Fish that won 5 titles. His stats last year were right in line with his career averages. The only difference is the Lakers dreadful playoff collapse, which causes everyone to get trigger-happy about re-inventing the wheel and dismantling the roster. Just look at how things disintegrated after the 2004 Finals loss to Detroit. It was 4 years before they got out of the 1st round again (after getting Gasol… and Fisher).
Even in his prime, Fish was never a prototype PG who filled the stat sheet or dominated his individual matchups. His career high is something like a measly 28 points, but the Lakers cannot win the 2012 title without him. Kobe understands that. After all, he’s never won a title without Fisher.
Ironically, Fisher’s combination of clutch and intangibles is not unlike Big Shot Rob’s successful career. On the all time list of NBA Finals 3 point shooters, Horry is #1 and Fisher is #2.
To say that Fish is supposed to be a “true PG” (whatever that means) or Chris Paul-esque is confusing apples with oranges. He needs to be comparable to Ron Harper or John Paxson. Better yet, Fish just needs to be himself; something he’s doing just fine.
by Common Loon on Jul 16, 2011 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If you're a spot-up shooter, and the best you can muster is a pathetic 48.6 TS%
Then I’m sorry, you’re terrible. There’s really no way to sugarcoat that. And no, his stats last year (8.9 PER, 48.6 TS%) were definitely not in line with his career averages (12.0 PER, 51.5 TS%). The only thing he did better was shoot threes, but given that he rarely took threes, even though he’s amazingly terrible from every other spot on the floor, that didn’t change a whole lot. In any case, there’s a huge difference between this Fish and the one that came back for the ‘07-’08 season (13.8 PER, 55.6 TS%) to provide an upgrade over Smush Parker, which wasn’t exactly a high bar to clear in the first place. Our better record that year was a result of 1) Bynum having a breakout year 2) our bench being excellent 3) getting Gasol for scraps. Sure, he probably helped stabilize the locker room after Kobe’s rant the previous summer, but he was far from the most important thing that turned the Lakers’ season around on the court.
No one here is saying that he needs to be Chris Paul. But he sure as hell isn’t ‘99-’00 Ron Harper or Robert Horry either. When he can’t succeed in the one role in which he still has some utility (spot-up shooting) or even control himself enough to limit himself to that role (per all the long twos, ridiculous drives to the rim, attempts to shoot off the dribble, etc.), then there’s not a whole lot of good he’s bringing to the team. As Dex noted above, there are plenty of other problems on the team, but having to play 5-on-4 a lot of the time because Fish isn’t bringing anything to the table is a problem that needs to be addressed.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

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