On Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Importance, and Value
Almost exactly three years ago, Mitch Kupchak and the Los Angeles Lakers executed a trade that permanently changed the landscape of the entire NBA. They traded a bunch of spare parts and the biggest bust in NBA draft history for Pau Gasol, a borderline All-Star with an endless bag of tricks to use in the post. The Lakers immediately became championship contenders, and have played a role in all three NBA Finals since the trade (playing the winning role in the last two). As Pau has developed, it has become clear that we are on a very slow collision course with the day when Pau Gasol surpasses Kobe Bryant as the most valuable player on the Lakers. It's a matter of time, quite literally; Kobe has had more of it (a lot more if we consider that Kobe started playing professionally before the age of 18). At some point, time will catch up to him. Gasol is younger by two years, and more importantly, he's played 5 less seasons. He will continue to ascend or hold steady as Kobe Bryant declines, and eventually their career arcs will meet, and then head in opposite directions (or at least, Gasol's decline will be far less steep than Kobe's for a while). Barring injury to Gasol, this progression is almost inevitable. But has it already happened?
It's not an opinion held in high regard within Lakers Nation. However, outside these friendly confines, there are certainly some who are on board with it. During last year's NBA Finals, there was clamoring that perhaps Pau was more deserving of Finals MVP than Kobe was. Gasol's hot start to this season had more than a few people thinking he was a viable candidate for MVP of the entire league, much less his own team. That league MVP talk subsided long ago, as Pau crashed back to earth after an amazing first month of the season, but despite Pau's recent struggles, people still look at him and see an ultra-efficient post scorer who's only "fault" is that he's not aggressive enough to keep up with his own teammate.
Is that enough to make him more valuable than Kobe Bryant? Let's take a look.
The MVP label requires a certain amount of definition. After all, the criteria for what determines the MVP of the league is different depending on whom you talk to. Some think it's the best player on the best team, the guy who is leading his team to a height that nobody else can reach. Others seek to answer the question of "If X Player wasn't there, how much worse would his team be", and the guy with the highest value is the MVP. For the rest, it's a sheer numbers game; the player with the best stats should be the league's MVP. In a team setting, the first option is moot. I think the second one doesn't really apply either, because with two great players on one team, it's impossible to tell whether Kobe or Pau would be capable of filling in the gaps were the other to miss time. So we're left with option #3, a simple numbers game. Here are those numbers.
| Minutes | Points | eFG | TS% | Rebounds | Assists | Turnovers | PER | |
| Kobe Bryant | 33.8 | 25.4 | 49.3 | 55.8 | 5.2 | 5 | 3 | 24.8 |
| Pau Gasol | 37.4 | 18.7 | 52.5 | 58.3 | 10.5 | 3.6 | 1.9 | 23.6 |
On the season (to date) Kobe Bryant is averaging 25.4 points on 49.3% eFG. He's picking up 5 rebounds and 5 assists a game as well. He turns the ball over a lot, nearly 3 times a game, but he also does a good job of getting to the free throw line, with 7.5 FTA per game. Add it all up, and he's got a PER of 24.8. Pau Gasol is playing more minutes than Kobe (which should count in his favor). He's scoring 18.7 points per game on 52.5% eFG, and picking up 10.5 rebounds and 3.6 assists per game. He too struggles with turnovers, but not quite as badly as Kobe does, with 1.9 per game. His PER tops out at 23.6.
Based on those numbers, it seems pretty clear to me that Kobe remains the Lakers best player, and therefore it's MVP. Really, this shouldn't be a surprise, because Kobe Bryant is (numerically speaking) playing at a higher level this season than he ever has in the Pau Gasol era. His shooting has increased vs. last season, and he's picking up rebounds and assists at a higher combined rate than he has since 2008. After his PER dipped dramatically last season (from the low 24's to just under 22), it has jumped back up to above his career average, the highest PER he has posted as a member of a contender since 2002-2003. Pau Gasol, meanwhile, is shooting the worst percentage of his Lakers career, and his rebounding rate is down compared to last year as well. He is still very good (for his position) at racking up the assists, and his strongest improvement this season has been to cut down on turnovers, but it's not enough. Numerically, Kobe Bryant is producing more (in less time) and therefore has more value than Pau Gasol.
Well, I'm glad we got that settled. There's just one problem ... buried within those same numbers is confirmation, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Pau Gasol's play is more important to the success of the Los Angeles Lakers than Kobe Bryant is. Let's revisit last year's NBA Finals MVP conversation. The concept that Pau Gasol deserved Finals MVP was borne out of the fact that, in the games the Lakers won, Pau was the more dominant force. Pau averaged 18 points and 13.75 rebounds per game on 45% shooting in the four Laker wins. In losses, he scored 19 points on 51% shooting, but his rebounding dropped dramatically down to 9.33 boards per game. Contrast this to Kobe Bryant, who was terrible in the Laker wins, scoring 27 points per game, but with an eFG of 39%. However, in the three losses, he scored 30 a game with an eFG of 54%, including scoring barrages in games 4 and 5 that were the only reasons those contests were competitive. Overall, both put up pretty strong lines: Pau came through with 18.5 points per game, 11 boards, and 3.7 assists on 48% shooting, and Kobe put up 28.6 points per game, 8 boards, and 3.9 assists on 45% eFG (Pau did not make any three pointers, so eFG is a fair comparison). Kobe's numbers (an extra 10 points on relatively similar adjusted field goal percentage, and only 3 boards less per game) certainly merited the MVP overall, but people remember how poorly he played in those Laker wins (including game 7) and question whether he is deserving. My response now is the same as it was then; when determining the MVP, losses count too.
However, the lesson to be learned is that a great game from Kobe does not necessarily equate to overall team success. This season, that dynamic has become exaggerated by the stunning disparity in Pau Gasol's play between wins and losses. Check out the win/loss profiles I've created below. All of these stats are minutes-adjusted because both Kobe and Pau play significantly increased minutes in Laker losses.
| Kobe Bryant | In wins | In losses | Pau Gasol | In wins | In losses | |
| Total | 36 | 16 | Total | 36 | 16 | |
| Minutes/game | 32.9 | 36.1 | Minutes/game | 36.6 | 39.3 | |
| Points/36 min | 26.8 | 27.4 | Points/36 min | 19.7 | 14.3 | |
| Shots/36 min | 19.7 | 22.9 | Shots/36 min | 13.9 | 11.7 | |
| FT/36 min | 6.8 | 6.2 | FT/36 min | 4.8 | 2.6 | |
| Assists/36 min | 5.3 | 5.4 | REB/36 min | 10.4 | 9.4 | |
| TO/36 min | 3.1 | 3.3 | TO/36 min | 1.6 | 2.2 | |
| eFG | 50.93% | 46.33% | eFG | 53.53% | 50.00% | |
| TS% | 57.70% | 52.28% | TS% | 59.70% | 54.57% |
In Kobe's profile, we can definitely see a certain amount of hero complex. In games the Lakers are losing, he scores more points, but he does so less efficiently. In fact, he increases just about everything. If the Lakers are down, he shoots more, doles out more assists, turns the ball over more; the only thing that doesn't increase is free throw attempts, but those stay close enough to the same as to not read too much into it. By taking more shots and garnering (slightly) more assists, we can see Kobe is working harder in losses than he is in wins. Fault him if you don't particularly like his strategy in these losing situations if you wish (and we've already gone into detail about whether the loss is causing the profile, or the profile is causing the loss), but his motor is unquestionable.
By contrast, Pau's profile couldn't be more different. His numbers are dramatically down across the board. The dips in his shooting % mirror Kobe's almost exactly. Both his points and shot attempts are down considerably as well. However, the three statistical categories that paint the clearest picture in my mind are the free throws, rebounds, and turnovers, because these three stats are the best approximation of Pau's effort level. His shot attempts decrease in losses, but that could be explained away by observing that, perhaps, Kobe is taking those shot attempts away from him in an attempt to play the hero. But the possibility of a Kobe-centric offense does nothing to explain why Pau is grabbing 10% less rebounds, turning the ball over 27% more, and getting to the free throw line 46% less(!!) despite his shot attempts only decreasing by 16%. If anything, it gives greater credence to the idea that Kobe sees his team in need of rescue and does his best to get the job done. He can see when Pau is struggling, settling for 15 foot jumpers instead of attacking aggressively, or getting bullied into turnovers on the block. When he sees it, hero mode becomes the only option in his mind.
The problem is that hero mode doesn't usually work. Just like in last year's Finals, even if Kobe plays spectacularly, it does not often equate to victory unless he has company. That doesn't mean Kobe should be held at fault for trying to will his team to victory, because most of the time, he does so because all the other options have already failed. However, it does paint a clear picture that Pau Gasol's performance is of far greater importance in determining the overall success of the team.
Kobe Bryant is the undisputed leader of this team; he is the alpha dog. As such, when the team as a whole does something worthy of glory, he will get the first slice, and that slice will be the biggest. That's not just how basketball works, that is how the world works. And Kobe's status as the alpha dog on this team will not change for a long, long time. Hell, based on the apparent will power of the two players involved, it may never change. There will probably come a time when Pau Gasol ends up a better overall basketball player than Kobe Bryant, but the Lakers will remain Kobe's team well beyond that point. However, the time when Pau Gasol's play has a greater influence on whether the Lakers win has already arrived.
If Pau plays well, the Lakers usually win. If he doesn't, they struggle. Pau has struggled quite a bit lately, and only a slew of poor opponents have kept the Lakers win-loss record respectable. With a much tougher road to travel from now until the start of the playoffs, the Lakers clearly need Pau Gasol to kick back into gear. If he does, the Lakers remain one of the favorites in the race to obtain their third straight NBA championship. If he doesn't, all the doom and gloom which have surrounded the team through this underwhelming regular season may actually come to pass. Pau Gasol is the single most important factor to consider in evaluating just how far this Lakers team will go.
Just don't make the mistake of equating that importance with value.
All stats created with the asssistance of basketball-reference.com
Editor's Note: We re-bumped this to the front page because yesterday's Melo drama demoted this piece to the side stage.
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I think we can file thu=is under the Chuck thread. lol
jk C.A. good stuff and very well researched as usual
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Cool article man
Anyways, I’ve been trying to dive into these so called “rumors” and “sources” saying that we’re really involved to get Melo and I actually think that maybe they might be true. Every site I go to is saying that there are multiple sources saying that there have been preliminary talks betweeen the Lakers FO and the Nuggets. Again, it is preliminary but the fact that they are even having these discussions, shows that we shouldnt just say Brussaurd is a dumbass because I think these sources are legit
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
Although my opinion is kinda split on this
Its really a long term, short term thing. It would kill us short term because theres no way we’d get past Boston this yr without Andrew playing for us. But it would help long term just by the fact he’s only 26 and we’d have a superstar to build around (although its arguable you can build around Melo as your best player to win a title) and we may be able to attract Howard more by having him on our team by 2012
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
by desecrator09 on Feb 8, 2011 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
Build around Melo?
I think Denver was a legit team in itself with George Karl a great coach himself. Melo’s decision to uproot himself from what others would kill to have is quite puerile.
but is is really either/or?
Your argument supporting the statement “If Pau plays well, the Lakers usually win. If he doesn’t they struggle” seems to leave out the interconnected-ness of Kobe and Pau’s performances vis-a-vis the Lakers’ success. You’ve supported what happens when Kobe goes off the reservation in losses without figuring in what Pau was doing in those Kobe-centric L’s (not being aggressive? getting pushed out of his spot, taking too many fadeaways?). And inversely, what happens to our boyz when Pau plays well and Kobe doesn’t? That doesn’t seem to happen very often: usually when Gasol is rocking, Kobe is more than happy to distribute the ball to everybody (not just Pau). So, although his numbers will change, especially in shots taken and PPG, Kobe is very involved in those games when “Pau plays well, the Lakers usually win.” of course we’ve all seen the Mamba absolutely CARRY this squad, with good results and not-so-good, but I can only remember a few games when Pau was single-handedly leading the club to whatever outcome. Also, and I don’t know the answer to this, hasn’t Pau played as much pro ball, counting Europe, as Kobe? It would be interesting to compare wear-and-tear counting FIBA and NBA games for Pau. All that said, you are absolutely right: when Gasol plays well, the Lakers are very tough to beat, usually because #24 is back there pulling all the right strings (and saving a few daggers for the finale). Cool article, C.A.
Great article. My thoughts on the MVP discussion is that if you don't put out the effort, you don't deserve to be in the discussion.
Kobe plays with effort every night, no matter what’s going on. He doesn’t always get the W, and sometimes a spectacular performance goes to waste, but he never gives up (see him jumping to stop McDyess’ tip last Thursday). Pau gives up too much and his lack of effort hurts the team, as you indicated above. He doesn’t deserve to be MVP if he can’t do his best every time he steps on the floor, and that includes leaving your fucking feet and putting up two hands for a rebound instead of letting the guy who’s 6’2" take it. It also includes going to the rim strong instead of flipping the ball off your fingers when you have the advantage, as well as running back on defense more times than trotting.
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
Please, continue.
"Phil Jackson seems to enjoy his status as 'NBA grand philosopher' and uses that platform to lob verbal hand grenades into other franchises or the league offices for fun." - Kurt Helin
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916
i call it the drunk driver theory of survival
ever wonder why drunk drivers always survive in crashes? their muscles are always relaxed, causing less trauma. Pau utilizes this to great effect. . By always relaxing, be it on drives to the basket, rebounds, contests, he always resembles a floppy noodle. Hence, he rarely gets hurt. Brilliant!!
If Pau reverts back to November self, for the rest of the Season
(big IF, I know)
Can he sneak into the MVP race and maybe even win it?
"Phil Jackson seems to enjoy his status as 'NBA grand philosopher' and uses that platform to lob verbal hand grenades into other franchises or the league offices for fun." - Kurt Helin
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916
If, in doing so, he leads the Lakers on a tear through the toughest 2nd half schedule in the league
sure, it’s a possibility. I think it would take the Lakers coming damn close to surpassing the Spurs, if not passing them outright, for overall HCA in the playoffs to do it though, which is very unlikely.
Very unlikely
It looks like it will be either LeBron or Rose at this point.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
remember last year
when it was brother vs brother,sister vs sister,cat vs dog? over the whole chris bosh for bynum thing. well this year the coins been flipped and we need to push that button,the melo button. Andrew is my 2nd fav laker but the chance to acquire melo does not come often.
2013
pg ?
sg kobe
sf mello
pf gasol
c howard
Czheck Productions
Under The Basement Radio
I've never done anything good for the world, and I'm not about to start now-DF
2013 PG:
Anthony Carter
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
by shaqfor3 on Feb 8, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lolz
Czheck Productions
Under The Basement Radio
I've never done anything good for the world, and I'm not about to start now-DF
to continue our trend
of slow and over-the-hill PGs.
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
Blakey though
might get traded before that.
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
Hate to be a party pooper
but exchanging Bynum for Melo is exchanging a defensive fort for an offensive tank. The lakers really don’t require another offensive weapon, especially at the cost of Bynum’s defense. Defense wins the games at the end and without bynum to clog the paint and hold it down against a beefed up frontline like Boston we’re toast.
by jXn on Feb 8, 2011 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The question here becomes
Would you rather have a somewhat less chance to win a title this year and be locked in for contention for the next 5+ years, OR would you rather try to go all in one last time this year and win a title but maybe suffer the next 3 yrs or so of slowly aging like the Maverics?
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
by desecrator09 on Feb 8, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
That depends on the situation of this vague lockout
For all we know the lockout may or may not go down. With the collaboration of the heat this year sales have gone up and how much money is made to go around will only be calculated at the end. Though I still would like the FO to do something about our pg position. Blake hasn’t done much (yet). But then again if this team is healthy and has its pieces acquiring Melo would only be a bonus.
Nice comparison.
Sums up how I feel about this deal for sure.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 8, 2011 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
You can't get both Melo and Howard
Bynum only gets you one of them, unless you want to flip Gasol for Dwight in 2012, which isn’t a bad idea. Alternatively, if we trade for Melo, we can always flip him for Howard if he’s not meshing well. So another way to view a Melo trade is if we’re going to be getting Howard anyways, are we better in the short-term with Melo or Bynum? Because either will get us Howard, who is a better choice than both of them.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
keep Bynum now, and flip him for howard.
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
oh man stats make my eyes hurt
good tackle by C.A.
Here are my three keys to wins: Gasol, Fisher and Ron
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard"-Norm Nixon
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
I don’t really see how it’s even close. I love Pau, but compared to Kobe, he’s nothing. And I don’t really see how anyone but Kobe can be declared the top player in the nba right now. Is Pau playing like a top 5 PF even, over the entire season? I think he has, but it’s still very debatable. Pau was a good player, but not even that much of a star before joining Kobe. Now, he’s a superstar? Hmm, I wonder if Kobe had anything to do with that?
Kobe was 18 by his first game. Pau was still playing when he was 17-20 in spain, so I don’t really think it’s 5 years difference in playing. Kobe’s in phenomenal shape, and 1999 was a shortened season. Kobe will still be able to play at an ultra high level for at least 2 more years, and he can average 20ppg when he’s 38, unless he has a major injury. I don’t see Pau ever being better than Kobe. But, I do think both will age well.
MVP is not a team award, but an individual, voters forget that. I don’t think it’s necessarily the best player should be MVP, but I find it hard for the best player not to be MVP. I have yet to see a year where, in my mind, the best player wasn’t the MVP.
I don't see how you can't see it
The article explains everything perfectly. Kobe is going to play hard, night in and night out, but that doesn’t lead to wins. When Gasol also plays hard, we usually win. Thats the CN for those who can’t see it. It doesn’t say anything bad about Kobe, honestly.
well
When Gasol also plays hard, we usually win.
That one statement is why Gasol is always gonna be more than a few rungs below Kobe. It should never be “when” Gasol plays hard. Besides, the book is out on Gasol. Play physical and he wilts under the pressure. Until he gets that fixed he will never be anything more than a number 2 option who needs a dynamic player to take the pressure off of him.
I think a stat that should have been added is how well other Lakers have played when each player has performed at a high level. Simply comparing their numbers without that doesnt tell the whole story Imo
Old, Slow, and Indifferent...Ladies and Gentlemen, These are your Los Angeles Lakers!
They're 5-1
when they both score 30 points and in a different recap from Dex he has the numbers for what they are when they both score 25 or more
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
I would love
to see the day when we will be discussing that/if Pau or anybody on this team, shot us out of a game, or that he was too selfish. It all boils down to that win or lose Kobe will leave ‘’no bullets in the chamber’‘. I have yet to see a game where he was too passive or not aggressive or any other coined phrases we use for our other players when they seem to not care. If Kobe being aggressive causes others to be passive the shame on them.
It really seems crazy to me that we are talking about Kobe needing to be less ’’selfish’’ so the others can feel good about themselves.Well boo-fucking hoo, boys and grow the fuck up, play aggressive and you’ll be fine.
and as for
Pau well..he needed a pep talk to become more aggressive and assertive on the court. That is one of the main reasons why this will always be Kobe’s team even if he’s 40.Pau is a great player but not the kind of player others will follow. Not ’’bad’’ enough for the NBA culture.
{packs up to move to Greece so she can marry Costas}
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
Damn {unpacks}
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
OMG, I can't believe you automatically assumed you'd draw the short straw.
SCG = the Wedding Singer looking up at Drew Barrymore’s window.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
LOL, he's already married so SCG is SOL.
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
What is it that Elizabeth Taylor, or someone paraphrasing her, once said?
Marriage is only a temporary condition.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
LOL, my list of potential husbands (many here on SS&R) is probably longer than hers.
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
Hehe . . .
Looking forward to . . . that fanpost idea we briefly discussed earlier.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
I'm working on it.
Think I’ll put it up Sunday at midnight.
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
I wonder who is on the list?
"Phil Jackson seems to enjoy his status as 'NBA grand philosopher' and uses that platform to lob verbal hand grenades into other franchises or the league offices for fun." - Kurt Helin
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916
If you have to ask . . .
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
Terrible logic
Jevon, because if Gasol plays hard and kobe doesn’t, then the lakers probably don’t win either. But, kobe always plays hard, so we’ll never know, will we?
I know it’s not directly talking bad about Kobe. But, indirectly it is, because Pau is not even in the same hemisphere when it comes to comparing his greatness to kobe’s greatness.
by express34texas on Feb 9, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
The year Dirk won and the Years Nash won the MVP were both years the best player didnt win the award
At least thas my opinion anyway.
Old, Slow, and Indifferent...Ladies and Gentlemen, These are your Los Angeles Lakers!
Idk about
nash’s first MVP in 04-05, Kobe missed a good part of the season so I don’t think it would’ve went to him, but I definitely agree that Kobe should’ve been MVP 3 years in a row from 06-08, but hey the likelihood was just completely against him. it’s a shame he and Shaq only have 1 MVP a piece given how dominant they were for different stretches of this past decade.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
This article is a 10/10
Way to bring the facts CA. This absolutely has to make its waves across the internet, as this article is pure Gold.
Me agrees with the article wholeheartedly.
An aggressive Pau makes things much easy accomplish than a passive Pau.
Great article
I argued that Pau might be more valuable than Kobe before this season began, but had nothing to back it up. Really nice breakdown here.
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
carmelo
is a beast……….if la trades bynum alone for him………then that will set up another trade of artest, walton and maybe blake for a combination of pg and center/pf like gibson and jamison of the cavs……..or they can trade for a next superstar big like bogut of milwaukee or bargnani of toronto………….bynum,,,although he has potential……cannot play together with gasol at the same time……….and la wont pay him 12mil a year as they current are to come off the bench………they already play odom and gasol in crunch time and bench bynum……………think of a crunch time lineup of fisher/gibson,,bryant,,melo,,odom and gasol…….that lineup can be practically unstoppable……..bryant can be the facilitator………..while melo can be the iso player while bryant and gasol run the high pick n roll and bryant either dishes to the wing to an open gibson or carmelo or passing to a cutting odom or gasol for an easy layup/dunk………think of the possibilities!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, you.....type......like William.......Shatner........talks.
What’s……with……all the……ellipses?!
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
Ellipses…are…cool
Why…u….be….hatin’…??
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
My darling 'tard.
"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson
Tweetness: @SoCalGal64
Writes like.........James T. Kirk
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
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"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."
"I'm a perfectionist who's not perfect." - Ron Artest
8 + 24 > 23 + 6
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"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
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"Phil Jackson seems to enjoy his status as 'NBA grand philosopher' and uses that platform to lob verbal hand grenades into other franchises or the league offices for fun." - Kurt Helin
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916
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"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
Great article C.A.
The stat that really jumps out to me is the difference in FTA per game by Pau in Wins vs Losses. To me this shows that when Pau is more aggressive and going up stronger to the rim instead of shooting jump shots and fadeaways, the Lakers are much more likely to win. This is the one key for the Lakers down the stretch and in the playoffs: Pau’s willingness to be aggressive at the offensive end of the floor.
"Nobody is counting us out, except maybe Spurs fans. We'll be alright"
- Ron Artest
"Winning is important to me, but what brings me real joy is the experience of being fully engaged in whatever I'm doing."
- Phil Jackson
oh noes
whammy made a new fanpost
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
Duck and cover, LOL.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
by Koshu on Feb 9, 2011 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Pau and Kobe
I do think Pau and Kobe are a great tandem, but I’m not sure what to think of ron artest. The Lakers are clearly trying to move him. Also, there is the big rumore of Bynum for Melo which really give the team a new look. They would lose their twin towers, but would gain a successor for Kobe. Would this be the way to go for the future since Bynum is a health risk?
Ball Chat - Episode 19 - Bosh Pit - 2/3/11
Irreverent, informative, entertaining. A welcomed curveball to mainstream watered down NBA analysis.
As was true in 2008 when we acquired Pau, so it is now.
When Kobe and Pau are both clicking, there is also a notable qualitative difference in the way the team plays overall (regardless of whether or not team stats exclusive of Pau’s and Kobe’s numbers show meaningful differences between wins and losses) — even if that is just largely for the purposes of facilitating the efforts of 1a and 1b/2.
Very nice piece C.A.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
the only ones
saying that pau should have gotten mvp over kobe were the haters looking for any chance to discredit kobe’s greatness and accomplishments.
Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.
by LOOOeee on Feb 9, 2011 5:30 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Get Rid of the Bynum
The Lakers were going to take off after he came back they are going in reverse and they can’t stop the bleeding . Kobe is battling Father Time his shots don’t drop like before, Gasol has become the crybaby of the team ,Odum isn’t used enough, Artest needs a coach, Fish gives one game a week, Blake is shackled ,Brown is a top and Uncle Phil isn’t given enough players that know how to shoot so he needs Melo. Go for it make the Trade! Also Get rid of Luke the Leadbuster!
O_o
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
O_O
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
x_x
"Phil Jackson seems to enjoy his status as 'NBA grand philosopher' and uses that platform to lob verbal hand grenades into other franchises or the league offices for fun." - Kurt Helin
Stalk, err, Follow me on Twitter: @bluefalcon916
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter
"Pluto’s not even a planet no more, which I’m very disturbed about. I grew up when Pluto was a planet. Now, I’m 25, I turn around and Pluto’s no longer a planet. I’m going to elbow that guy in the nose." -Ron Artest
I'd like to see optimus b and WhammyGiveaway collaborate on that newsletter.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
Maybe a little Star18 in there as well!!!!!!!
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
Loved the breakdown.
I’m not a numbers guy, so I totally respect all the work that went in to this.
Pau is such an important part of this team. I know we all wish he was stronger/more physical, but he’s not. He’s a master of finesse, and there’s nobody else out there like him.
I sentence thee to death by Mamba.
Causation vs Correlation
After reading this post, I feel confirmed about my belief that Kobe is “taking more shots” because his teams needs him to, either due to the inconsistent play of his team or the different defensive approach taken by the opposite team.
I hate it (detest is probably a better description) when people argue that the team would do better if Kobe shot less, Kobe’s shot selection and shots taken are reflective of the game flow and opponent defense, not solely on his own prerogative. Thus, there may be (probably is, don’t have the data outside of what I see here in SSR) a strong positive correlation between Kobe’s “shots taken” and a relative losing record, but one does not CAUSE the other.
I’ve watched Lakers games since the Magic era in the 80’s, Kobe’s gotta do what he’s gotta do… “he needs to be more effective” is too relative of an argument when talking about his shot selection or number of shots taken. I’d like to highlight that an opponents offense is not static, they also change their game plan on a game-to-game basis (even within a game) to better handle Kobe.

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