Lakers Need Shooting, Call Jason Kapono
by Ben R on Dec 5, 2011 10:25 AM PST
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PrintLooking for players to fill the spot on the wings behind Kobe Bryant is likely the biggest priority in free agency, first in ensuring that the Lakers' most important player doesn't overburden himself with too many minutes and secondly to solidify the Lakers' bench unit. In that regard, and to kick off what will likely be an epic free agent period due to the compressed schedule, the ever resourceful Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports throws the first salvo for the Lakers:
The Lakers search for perimeter shooting brings free agent Jason Kapono to their facility for a visit today, league sources tell Y!
Kapono is perhaps the most direct way the Lakers could have possibly imagined to solve the dearth of three-point shooting on the team, although perhaps too much so. A career 43.7 3P% shooter, Kapono definitely fulfills the need for a floor-spacing wing, but he's incredibly limited in every other part of his game. Probably as athletic as Luke Walton is right now, bad back and all, Kapono is a brutal defender and rebounder, and giving him minutes requires hiding on him an offensive non-threat. Moreover, teams have had remarkable difficulty in convincing such a good three-point shooter that he should stay behind the line, as he's shot more twos than threes nearly every season of his career. If this reminds you of a certain starting point guard on the Lakers, then you know how incredibly infuriating that can be.
Altogether, Kapono is barely more than an end-of-rotation player nowadays, and he couldn't get minutes on a Sixers team desperate for floor spacing. One can question whether he's a better option than simply playing rookie Andrew Goudelock, who was a lights out shooter at Charleston and would benefit from having some playing time to develop, whether as a situational shooter or occasional backup. In any case, we will continue to keep you updated on any developments that arise.
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Before I even read the entire post the first I thought about was defense. But I have a different take on it
If the Lakers managed to win two titles with Fisher at PG whose defense is just as bad as Kapono’s then why couldn’t the Lakers be as succesful with a back up shooting guard like Kapono?
On top of that, Kapono is a very reliable shooter which leads me to my next point. The sixers don’t have the type of offensive players that get so much attention on D that would allow him to be open. Now the Lakers on the other hand that is a different story.
"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant
I don't know why the Lakers would even entertain this.
The problem is Kapono is three seasons removed from decent shooting reliability. Three seasons ago, Kapono was playing just above Fisher’s level from last year, and Kapono has only declined since then.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
maybe kapono would be like a mentor for goudelock
and only play garbage time minutes. gotta fill out the roster i guess
Follow me: @theshmoes.
If getting Kapono means that we waive Andrew Goudelock, then this is a BAD idea!
Even if we sign both, I still don’t love this plan. Give the rookie the minutes and see what he can do. After Theo Ratliff last season, I’m really wary of signing older guys. The Lakers are old enough as is.
I know we need shooting and a backup to Kobe, but I’d split the minutes between Barnes, Goudelock and Ebanks, or maybe try one of the D-League guys on a minimum contract. Elijah Millsap has been balling for the D-Fenders lately. Invite him to training camp and see what he can do. Combining Goudelock (age 23) and Millsap (age 24) could give us a young servicable backup to Kobe.
trey johnson
Sign him and give him the minutes.
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
by LakersFoEva on Dec 5, 2011 1:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'd rather save the money and give the minutes to Goudelock
Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.
I will always love you Fish
Can we stop with the cheap shots on Fish. The Lakers do not win the last 2 titles without him. Period. Hell, does anybody remember him raining down on teams in 2001.
Only stupidity will come from trying to disprove his value as a Laker. If the Lakers put forth the same amount of effort as last year, they will get the same results, no matter who is playing. Assuming Brown uses an offense that requires a PG to have more ball handling skills, we may see Fish relegated to the mentor role. I would not bet on it.
I would rather see rookies play hard and run, than vets walk the ball and strut. No matter who they are. I will return to an old wound, if the Lakers kept running in the 2nd half of game 5, straight through to the end of the series against Boston, they win it in 2008. Because the Celts would have been gassed in 2008, just as they were in 2010.
Dude, Fish sucks and was terrible last season.
And as I noted above, a fair amount of it was self-inflicted. A guy who shot 38.6% inside the arc decided that it would somehow be a good idea to launch 70% of his shots from there even though he was one use on offense — hitting threes and acting as a floor spacer. That he had a 48.6 TS% says volumes about his ineffectiveness last season on offense, especially since he was left wide freaking open most of the time. And obviously, his defense was terrible and this goes without saying. This does not mean that I don’t respect Fish or what he has done for the team, but I don’t see any advantage in glossing over the fact that he’s simply not a good player. I’m not sure how to disabuse you of the notion that he is anything other than this.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Here's What Your'e Forgetting
Firstly, using True Shooting percentage for a guy whose usage is so low is disingenous. It’s a stat meant to talk about guys who touch the ball frequently not for a guy who barely touches the ball. But that’s neither here nor there.
The point guard for the Lakers is a very low usage position. Fisher’s production per usage is amongst the best in the league. One of the reasons that guys like Blake struggle, or that great guards who have played with Kobe over the years always have massive drops in their stats is because they just can’t produce with Kobe (rightly) dominating the ball. Where Fisher succeeds where other people fail is that he manages to put up points while having a USG% equivalent to a twelth man.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, that's completely bogus.
TS% has nothing to do with usage rate. It collates threes and free throws and weighs them to give a greater sense of a player’s offensive efficiency. There’s squat about usage rate in its calculations. If anything, a player like Fisher who should be shooting almost entirely threes should have a half-decent TS% since he shoots from behind the arc at a respectable rate. Except he doesn’t and hoists far too many long twos and otherwise tries things beyond his means, which is reflected in his TS%. If 70% of your shots are inefficient ones inside the arc, you shoot 38.6% on them, and don’t go to the line or shoot enough threes, then you have a low TS%. It’s not terribly complicated.
Your confusing and bizarre “production per usage” argument is also frankly nonsensical. Kobe doesn’t miraculously cause his backcourt partners to suck badly or induce them to throw up inefficient looks. A spade is a spade here. He’s a terrible offensive player and the numbers show it. I can guarantee you if you stuck a replacement level PG like say Beno Udrih at the spot, his numbers would be better than Fisher’s. Fisher basically had to be what Keith Bogans was last season to Derrick Rose — stand on the wing and wait for the kick out to shoot an open three, and hey, Bogans had a respectable 55.9 TS% since 77% of his shots were behind the arc. Plus, he had a 11.0 usage rate, lower than Fisher’s, and it illustrates clearly that your argument here is bunk.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
LOL, so wrong.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
lol, win.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
There is a respectful way to make your case
Just say Fish is older, he had his run and now he is done. Fish was always more about the intangibles and less about raw physicals.
The Lakers loss last year is easy to define in my mind and Fish was only as small part.
1) Minimal effort
2) No rookie energy, joyful spark
3) No Kobe end game heroics, likely due to not practicing
4) Shooting slump at wrong time
5) Not force feeding Gasol
6) Blake getting mono
1 & 2 were not going to change, but if Kobe’s shot at end of game 1 goes down, 4, 5 & 6 would have had more time to self correct.
LOL, Blake didn't have mono.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
I'm Not Confusing Anything
TS% without factoring in usage, makes NeNe look like a first ballot hall of famer. You absolutely have to consider, if you’re an honest person and not just using statistics to tell a story you want to tell, how much a person is actually using the ball before you consider their TS%. Trey Johnson had a TS% last year of 77%. Damn, time to start him over Kobe Bryant.
I never said Kobe “miraculously” causes his backcourt partners to do anything. I very clearly stated that his teammates production goes down due to because Kobe is using the ball the majority of the time. This doesn’t make them bad players, it is just simply that there is a finite number of plays and that Kobe uses the ball on the majority of time. As he should. The challenge is finding players on the court who can be productive with limited use of the ball. The only regular starter who had a lower USG than Fisher last year was Joel Anthony. The fact that Fisher produces what he does with so few touches is why he fits in on the team.
You can’t “guarentee” that if you stick a replacement guard in Fisher’s spot that they would outproduce him. Firstly such a guarentee asserts that you are some sort of basketball genius who knows more than Phil Jackson and that the guy who benched Ron Harper the first time when he was actually still good wouldn’t give the reserve his spot if he deserved it. But that’s neither here nor there. Farmar was a very productive player when Kobe was on the bench. Some of the Laker’s most productive units last year were with Steve Blake, when Kobe was on the bench. Hell, some of the 5-man lineups featuring Steve Blake last year were pretty productive-if Kobe was on the bench. Why were both these players less productive than Fisher when playing with Kobe? This argument gets even more dramatic when you go back to some of the teams that featured a much younger Fisher. No matter which PG has been on the team, for any extended period of time, the player who has played best with Kobe Bryant statistically is Derek Fisher.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
What Fish does is shoot
inconsistently and make plenty of poor offensive decisions that are independent of Kobe Bryant.
TS% does not need to factor in usage, except that lower usage players should have relatively stable TS% that aren’t in the bottom of the league. If Fish’s was really high, we’d say something. However, his is incredibly low for someone with as low a usage rate. The low usage on a team this stacked should result in good looks to help the player his better shots. Fish somehow manages to have an incredibly low TS% despite a low usage rate due to the fact that he often shrugs off passes that should be made to take his own shot that usually ends up being a bad decision.
Steve Blake units played well only without Kobe? Go to 82games.com and re-do your research playa
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
Blake waspart 14 of the 20 most productive Laker units. Only 4 of them were with Kobe, and he was apart of 3 more productive units than his first with Kobe.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
And Kobe with Fish
was a part of the far most effective lineups we had. Your point of somehow Kobe diminishing PGs makes no sense
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
...what?
TS%: True Shooting Percentage calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points x 50) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]
That’s the formula for TS%. No usage rate. Usage has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. If anything players with a lower usage rate should be MORE efficient because they aren’t handling the ball as much. Nene and Trey Johnson are straw men and irrelevant to this discussion. I’ve given you the context behind Fisher’s terrible TS% — he doesn’t shoot enough threes and has way too many inefficient shots inside the arc. Try refuting that than trying to explain it away with some spurious reference to usage that makes absolutely no sense. Kobe taking the majority of possessions has no bearing on this discussion, and as Marty notes, for Fisher to be wide freaking open most of the time, never have to create his own shot, and still not convert them (and make dumb decisions like trying to attack the rim off the dribble and taking an inordinate amount of long twos) says everything about what kind of offensive player he is. The presence of Kobe Bryant is not an excuse for Fisher’s performance. It is solely on himself that he sucks and makes bad decisions. And yes, it’s not a stretch to say that an average point who can shoot can do just fine in an offense in which all he has to do is sit on the wing and wait for an open look. It’s testament to how bad Fisher is that he does so poorly despite having almost no offensive responsibilities. Finally, again per Marty, your final point about Blake is patently wrong.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
....I'm not saying it's in the formula.....
What I’m saying is that if you do not consider usage before looking at the stat you are not making an informed argument.
Learn to read.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
I doesn't matter what metric, lense, or pair of glasses you use...
Fisher is a doorstop. I love his heart and leadership, but they’re better implemented from the bench. A few great plays in the playoffs is great for “intangibles” lore, but it is too big a liability now to be starting.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
by Joshua S on Dec 5, 2011 7:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Then why doesn't the team produce more with him on the bench?
I ask this every year, every time this argument comes up and nobody ever can tell me why. They will say things like “oh well X doesn’t play with Kobe.” But when X plays with Kobe the unit isn’t as effective.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
Because Blake sucked more last year than Fisher
Which was an accomplishment. That still doesn’t mean that Fisher is good, it just means that Blake was especially terrible.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
But the Lakers have had better backups than Blake
Why weren’t the Lakers better with those guys on the floor? Farmar a couple years ago probably had a legit gripe and may have deserved to start. But even that didn’t last.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
Farmar also wasn't better than Fisher
And Fisher’s gotten progressively worse as he’s aged. The years where Farmar was his backup, Fisher actually was quite good in his role and shot the ball well (with the possible exception of 2009-2010 where he shot way below his career norm from three).
Fisher’s had a great career and he’s been a great Laker. And he’s one of my all time favorite basketball players. The man’s got balls, and he’s clutch. Not a lot of players can say that about themselves. I’m as big a Fisher fan as you are. But the man’s not the player or the shooter he used to be. It doesn’t mean he can’t still play a role, but he doesn’t deserve to be a starter playing 30+ minutes a game anymore. He’s old. It happens to everyone. The reason he’s still starting at this point isn’t because he’s still a good player- it’s because the team can’t get anyone better.
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
By bench, I mean in a suit with a clip board.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
by Joshua S on Dec 5, 2011 8:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
And I'm saying that usage is irrelevant because low usage players are generally efficient.
And that in context, Fisher makes bad decisions with the possessions he has. You STILL haven’t replied to the central point of why Fisher has a low TS%. It’s not because of usage. That’s hogwash. He misses open shots and takes shots from the wrong places. It’s that simple. If you can’t get your head out of your fantasy universe in which Derek Fisher is a competent offensive player, then I don’t have anything to say to you.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Dude, chill.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
chill? Ben? not gonna happen.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Fisher’s low TS% isn’t RELATED to his usage. It’s IRRELEVANT because of his usage. He used the ball so rarely that it really doesn’t matter what his TS is, especially since despite the number the Lakers have been more productive with him on the floor.
by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 5, 2011 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
Okay, this is getting ridiculous.
Fisher has a low usage rate. Fine. In the possessions he does have, however, he is given a clear responsibility — shoot the ball when you’re open. It happens that because we have awesome offensive players at other positions, Fisher tends to be very, very open on most of these possessions, and he still manages to screw them up. He shoots fine on threes, which is what he should be shooting most of the time, except he only does so on 30% of his shots. On the remaining 70% of his shots inside of the arc, he’s terrible because he makes bad decisions like shooting long twos or trying to get to the rim and is understandably bad at both of those things, shooting only 38.6%. That’s unacceptable for a player who has one utility on offense and doesn’t understand his limitations. His TS% reflects the fact that hey, he’s not taking the right approach on offense. The fact that he doesn’t get the ball a whole lot doesn’t mean anything since he isn’t shooting under duress, he doesn’t have to create himself, he doesn’t have to do anything past waiting for an open shot, and still, somehow, he isn’t doing a whole lot with those possessions. Low usage players who understand their limitations have high TS%, see the Keith Bogans example above. I completely reject the argument that because Fisher floats around on the court without touching the ball in the extra minutes that he plays over Bogans that he is somehow incapable of doing a better job on offense. It doesn’t take that much thought to have an approach like Bogans and have 77% of your shots be threes, which is the only thing Fisher is good at and the only thing he is asked to do.
Your argument that the Lakers’ lineups are better with Fisher in them seems disingenuous. If he has such a low usage rate, how is he affecting anything on the floor? It’s not his defense, which is indisputably terrible. Don’t you think that Kobe, Pau, Drew, or Odom has a much, much bigger say in how those lineups do? The Lakers’ most effective lineup last year was Blake/Brown/Kobe/Odom/Gasol. I’d wager that that lineup was better because Brown is a better offensive choice than Artest, Kobe was destroying a three too slow to keep up with him, and Odom and Gasol were doing so because they’re that good and have good synergy. The Lakers were winning last season in spite of their point guards, not because of them.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
The best offenses the lakers put on the floor were with Kobe
please read the entire stat sheet. The most potent offenses on the floor included Blake and Kobe and some of them even had great defenses.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
His problem is he takes shots he used to be able to make
And they don’t go in as often anymore. He got old. At this point, his role should be spot up shooter from the three point line, because if there’s one thing he can still do pretty effectively, it’s hit a three. He shot 40% last year from the arc, and thats quite good.
He can still play a role, but that role shouldn’t be playing 30+ minutes a game anymore. Especially this season, because I don’t think playing back-back-back games after battling the owners for months is going to be good on his old body (though he’s in good shape).
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
lol
Moreover, teams have had remarkable difficulty in convincing such a good three-point shooter that he should stay behind the line, as he’s shot more twos than threes nearly every season of his career. If this reminds you of a certain starting point guard on the Lakers, then you know how incredibly infuriating that can be.
THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....
I say no
But yes only if we land cp3 or Dwight first but I’m leaning towards no anyway what else will he do other then shoot
"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard"-Norm Nixon
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
I'm on it so let's tweet: @B_M_Bizness
by BrittneyM on Dec 5, 2011 11:15 PM PST via mobile reply actions
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