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Around SBN: Kobe Bryant Will Never Top Michael Jordan

Lakers 92, Nuggets 89: #TeamBynum

Now that's how you close out a ball game ... right? No? Whatever, we'll take it.

The Los Angeles Lakers defeated the Denver Nuggets by a final score of 92-89, in no small part because Denver decided to raise the stakes in a game neither side wants to play. Over the first two games of the season, the Lakers have been terrible at closing out games, but Denver showed them ways to blow a game that even the Lakers couldn't imagine. Over the last nine possessions of the game, Denver managed just four points, and the last 30+ seconds of play will be enough to ensure that Danilo Gallinari's New Years Resolution will be to suck less at work. The poor Rooster managed to airball a three which would have given Denver the lead with 30 seconds to go, but he was just getting started. The next possession saw (another) poor offensive opportunity for Kobe Bryant rebound long, and Gallinari leaked out to find himself behind the Lakers defense in transition. With nothing but air ahead of him, and just the slightest of pressure from Steve Blake, Gallinari blew an easy lefty layup which would have tied the game. Kobe picked up the absolute gift of a rebound and Denver could do nothing but foul with a second left on the clock. A 30 foot heave by Al Harrington later, the Lakers were on their way to a nice little three game winning streak.

In many ways, the last few minutes were a microcosm of the entire game, and likely what the entire season will be like. There will be many, many nights when the goal of each team will simply be to suck less than their opponents. Today's game was very much a lesson in sucking less. The Lakers shot below 10% from three for the 2nd time this week ... and still won the game. They turned the ball over 19 times ... and still won the game. The Lakers were not strong down the stretch tonight, especially after recapturing the lead with an 11-4 run ... but they still won the game. Once regaining the lead, the Lakers lost three straight possessions to the same unfortunate circumstances that have seen many a close game turn into losses recently, with 2 long, contested Kobe Bryant jumpers sandwiching a turnover by the same dude. Whether or not it is Kobe's fault that these are the shots the offense are generating is moot. What is not is that the Lakers offense has performed terribly so far this season in crunch time situations. But, credit the Lakers D for being feisty all game, holding the previously high flying Nuggets to less than a point per possession for the game, and considerably worse during the deciding moments. Oh ... and one other dude.

Andrew. Freaking. Bynum.

Star-divide

I'm sure there are ways for you to overstate how good Bynum looked in his first game. You could say he's going to be one of the best centers to ever play the game. You could say he's the next Shaq. You could say he's the best center in the league ... well, that last one isn't overstating so much as jumping to conclusions. Because if Andrew Bynum can play the entire season as he did in his first game, he will be the best center in the league. This is Andrew we remembered from last year's dominant 17-1 stretch, the guy who cleans up every board and challenges every shot, but he was also mixed with the Drew we've seen from time to time whose offensive skill and polish are far above any other center with his combination of size and athleticism. In short, for this one game, Drew was everything we could possibly have wanted him to be. No talk about whether he can live up to potential, or how good he might be if the Lakers fed him the ball more. He was the focal point of the Lakers offensive efforts when he was on the court, and he proved himself to be a damn good focal point. 29 points on 13/18 shooting, 13 boards, and 2 blocks (including a huge rejection of a Nené dribble drive in the final two minutes). Every time he touched the ball, it seemed likely he would score. He had the hook shots. He had the fadeaways. He had that glorious, glorious footwork. And he had the same ridiculous length that made the Lakers think he might be a player worth having all those years back. Put it all together, and dude was solid gold.

And while we're doling out the praise, his partner in post-dom, Pau Gasol, was pretty damn solid too. The Spaniard didn't pull down many boards, but with Drew cleaning the glass that's somewhat understandable. What Pau did instead is exactly what we'll need from him to let this team be successful. He knocked down a bunch of mid-range jumpers and provided Bynum with the space to operate. He, too, had a big block late in the game, and Gasol's defense, along with all the other bigs', has been fantastic just about the entire short season so far. Let's just say if the Lakers could have handled the pick and roll last year like they've been doing so far this year, another banner might have been hanging in the rafters.

As for Derek Fisher, well, he just continues to do Derek Fisher things. His shooting wasn't terrible, though he continues to take at least one shot per game that combines the worst judgment of every selfish gunner in the history of the league. He doled out 5 assists, which is unusually high for him. He struggled with foul trouble the whole night (eventually fouling out), and had a completely nondescript game ... until he made the kind of play that it seems only he can make. Today, it was stumbling halfway across the court to dive for an offensive rebound of his own errant three-point shot, coming up with the ball between two Nuggets players, and still having the presence of mind to call timeout in the 1/2 second before Denver could tie him up with a jump ball. Do these plays make the entire Derek Fisher experience worth it? Probably not, but they sure as hell make it more understandable. You want a guy on your team who makes plays like this.

The rest of the team struggled today, in a variety of ways. The most obvious was from the perimeter, where, as previously mentioned, the Lakers managed to shoot less than 10% from deep for the SECOND TIME THIS WEEK. Steve Blake was the primary culprit, going 0-6 from range. Kobe went 0-5, and Jason Kapono went 1-4. Nobody could buy a three, and yet the Lakers still put up 24 attempts. Last season, that would have had me screaming bloody murder, but for today, the vast majority of the shots made sense. Bynum had as many shot attempts as Kobe Bryant did. Pau Gasol was third on the team. This was inside-out basketball at it's worst, but it was still inside-out, so there is little reason to complain. Do the Lakers still seem to have major issues from three point range? Very much so. But it didn't kill them today, and the shots they took, for the most part, weren't bad shots. You have to think the shooting will turn around eventually.

Two of the players who have been key in the Lakers winning streak prior to today struggled a bit. Kobe shot 6-18 from the field, with 4 turnovers, and he took the air out of those last three Lakers possessions which all ended up poorly. But he also pulled down 10 boards and had 9 assists. Did he play the right way in the last two minutes? Not so much. The rest of the game? Very much so. Sadly, there are no mitigating circumstances for Metta World Peace. He's been one of the major bright spots off the bench so far this season, but today saw the return of the player that made us cringe so much in season's past. 0 points, 0-8 shooting, and very little work inside of 15 feet.

But none of it matters, because the Lakers are now finally whole. And though we expected a lot from Andrew Bynum this season, perhaps we still underestimated how much he means to this team. Coming into this game (with very small sample sizes), the Lakers were ranked 23rd in the league in Defensive rebound %. The Nuggets were ranked 1st. Tomorrow, those rankings will look mighty different as the Lakers, behind Bynum, dominated the glass on both sides of the court.

That's the work of a game changer. With Bynum, the Lakers have more than one.

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Derek Fisher hustle = play of the fucking game.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 4:46 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

yea

he just put all 37- pgs to shame

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

And still

I believe that 5 rebound from our starting PF was not enough.

Great game regarding Drew though… Dwight is getting closer!

__________________________________________
It says so here in your personnel file: Unlikeable. Liked by no one. A bitter, unlikeable loner whose passing shall not be mourned. 'Shall not be mourned.' That's exactly what it says. Very formal, very official. It also says you were adopted. So that's funny, too.

by CrashTestDummy on Dec 31, 2011 4:49 PM PST reply actions  

Nice try, John Hollinger

Lakers annihilated the best rebounding team in the NBA 50-36 on the glass. I’d say Pau did a fine job, as did the rest of the front line

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Dec 31, 2011 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

If the Lakers win the championship and everyone, including Lawrence Tanter, outrebounds Pau,

I’ll be OK with that.

"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach

"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")

"make em eat your bubbles" - Cup Noodles

by Koshu on Dec 31, 2011 6:38 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL, exactly.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

yeesh

its one game. You act like he’s Andrea Bargnani.

by shaqfor3 on Dec 31, 2011 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Lakers - Nuggets | Game Thread Stats
Roll Call: CrashTestDummy, theshmoes, froZ3n, Hdg23, Jelly Bean, Dmitriy, gen!e, bluexfalcon, madmaxx350, Theone24, rballer, sctrojan13, Fin Fan Forever, East.Coast.Laker.Fan, afrikabamboodle, r2rokid, Ben R, timbo, SoCalGal, Koshu, Zen and Tonic, kb06, illyistic1, RudeMood19, PoPs_737, Gr81LIVES, BoneCruncher24, AV., LakerAce, lakergirl, Flipao, BrittneyM, Marty Mart, god doc, EmmCeee, yoshifan, Laptorz, DexterFishmore, Tkuang, jackpot, lwood24, E-ROC, shaqfor3, cldpc, Beko, LakeshowMom, j squared, desecrator09, neokoros, lakerdynasty, ch3wy, sumo390, Whipp, opnr2000, Justin N., Tommy Blackjack, ________key, LakersFoEva, Aethereal, Allen M…, KB_24, wondahbap, herro, LAL32, Joshua S, Hokkun, Prodigal PGcounty son, imposibol

Total Users: 68
Total Posts: 2149
Total Threads: 1

Top Ten Commenters
Name # of Posts
PoPs_737 197
lakergirl 156
froZ3n 151
BrittneyM 149
bluexfalcon 112
SoCalGal 99
Koshu 94
Jelly Bean 89
Fin Fan Forever 86
Ben R 82

how you doin'
Twitter: @bluefalcon916

by bluexfalcon on Dec 31, 2011 4:49 PM PST reply actions  

lol just made it

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Dec 31, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

O wow!

My first time making the top ten is on top???
That’s awesome!! LOL
And wow LG still made a push for first even though she showed up in the second half.

"In this league, you gotta learn to run on empty. Fuel level at zero, but still you run." -KB

by PoPs_737 on Dec 31, 2011 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

congrats bub! got the numba won spot b4 2k11 ended

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Just barely made it.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

nice to see you in there bro

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Have to decide whether to spend most of the game on Twitter or here.

Often end up splitting the difference.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

well honestly i dont remember u gettin in on the game thread like this

but then again there weren’t a whole lot of peeps here today including myself

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

only 65...

but i missed half the 4th quarter and the post game.

by gen!e on Dec 31, 2011 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I burly made it to.

I apologize if you get mad by what I say, let me know when you take the stick out of your ass so I can continue commenting.

by Jelly Bean on Dec 31, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

www.respectderekfisher.com

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Dec 31, 2011 4:50 PM PST reply actions  

matagal ko nang pangarap yan lol

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Dec 31, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

ok lang yan mga dre hahaha

Not only can water float a boat, it can sink it also.

by Zanarkand on Dec 31, 2011 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

madami sir. siguro 7 ung regular na dumadalaw.

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Jan 1, 2012 4:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I feel left out :(

"McRoberts is not as talented as LO but he is hungrier and I don’t mean for candy." - Jelly Bean

"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." - John Wooden

by deadmuse on Jan 1, 2012 5:12 AM PST up reply actions  

lol dont be

but im losing track of the guys and gals. bernel has a list.

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Jan 1, 2012 5:24 AM PST up reply actions  

careful...

Josh might sue you.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 31, 2011 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

I’ll take it down

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Dec 31, 2011 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

37intangibles.com

(psst…use that!)

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Happy New Years, everyone.

Stay safe and see yall tomorrow.

how you doin'
Twitter: @bluefalcon916

by bluexfalcon on Dec 31, 2011 4:51 PM PST reply actions  

Thanks.

Where’s the party blue?

"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach

"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")

"make em eat your bubbles" - Cup Noodles

by Koshu on Dec 31, 2011 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

HNY, honey!

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Happy New Years!

"In this league, you gotta learn to run on empty. Fuel level at zero, but still you run." -KB

by PoPs_737 on Dec 31, 2011 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Happy NY bub!

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

We got lucky but ...

we got Bynum back in fullspeed and won.

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 4:56 PM PST reply actions  

Can one of the stat guys here tell me which team stat is the most telling for offensive and defensive efficiency?

Is it shooting percentage, points per possession, or what?

There was a website a few years back that had a graph showing each NBA team and their offensive and defensive efficiency in a way that helped to show where each team stood on both clearly.

I want to reproduce that graph, but I am not sure what metric they used.

Any help would be great.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 31, 2011 5:00 PM PST reply actions  

It's basically points per possession.

Some extrapolate it out to points per 100 possessions to standardize it, but fundamentally, that’s what it is.

basketball-reference is probably the easiest place to get those numbers from.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

thanks

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 31, 2011 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't it points per possession?

That stat takes into accoutn everything you do on a given end on the floor…turnovers, %s, rebounding etc.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Dec 31, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Today's MVP:

Bynum. Or is it Gallineri?

Proud to be a brony.

by yoshifan on Dec 31, 2011 5:03 PM PST reply actions  

def DiniLOL

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Dec 31, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

unmolested layup gave me a good laugh

i cant believe people still want dwight even tho andrew is a monster.

by BasedRaiderFan on Dec 31, 2011 5:19 PM PST reply actions  

it's mostly due to the endurance of howard

he barely misses games, in fact i cant remember the last time he did whereas we’ve spent years yearning to see drew have even half a full season in his best health.

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Howard is a complete goof

but he shows class

"If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail. You know what I mean? Fuck it." -- Kobe "Black Mamba" Bryant

by jXn on Dec 31, 2011 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Drew still isn't at Howard's level defensively.

And that says more about Howard than Drew. He’s so absurdly athletic that he can check huge swaths of the floor, and he’d look great checking the P&R in Brown’s hard hedging scheme. The Magic basically field at least two or three defensive liabilities on the floor with him there and they still manage a top ten defense. In Brown’s scheme? He’d be ridiculous.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Id take a healthy Drew over Howard..

A Notch or 2 below Howard on D is still better than the majority. Add his Post game,improved passing and ability to hit free throws and its a toss up.

See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere

by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 5:53 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

minus the health issue of course

See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere

by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 5:54 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Drews health concerns are over-blown

none of his injuries showed a player made of glass, both of his injuries were literally freak accidents, its not like the dude jumped and just landed on his own two feet and blew his knee away… I want to keep Drew, i think trading Gasol could give us a great point guard or shooting guard and TPE can be used to fill the PF gap… Gasols stock is going to go down massively next season, Lakers need to jump on him whie his value is still relatively high and get a good guard, whether it be point or shooting guard…

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

We absolutely need anybody who can break down the d other than kobe. Ive been preaching the same thing regarding Pau.

See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere

by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 6:09 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Like I said, it says more about Howard than Drew right now.

Those two “notches” are still a pretty big gap. Don’t discount Howard offensively either. Besides his free throw shooting — and the fact he draws a ridiculous amount of free throws is a skill in and of itself — he has a pretty solid offensive game, and Drew’s more polished post game is balanced out by how absurdly good Dwight is off the ball as a roll man (led the league in PPP in that regard last year) and cutter (top five in the league in PPP). Moreover, like Drew, Dwight has been improving on his game as well, as evinced by his better footwork and new midrange bank shot. Both are obviously really good, but it’s hard for me to call Drew equal to or better than Howard.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

im not sold on Howards game minus dunks

While him drawing fouls is good for the team it doesnt help him with his horrible free throw shooting. I do agree on the defensive part…maybe he can work with Kareem if/when he gets here

See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere

by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 6:20 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

We're talking about the same Howard, right?

Your description would have been true for him two years ago, but he’s pretty consistent in the post nowadays. Has pretty good footwork, uses his elevation and speed well on his hook shots around the basket, and a lot of the fouls he draws there are from guys who can’t keep up with his agility in the post. Again, Drew generally has a more polished game and a softer touch around the basket, but I wouldn’t discount Dwight there either.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

While i agree that his offensive game has improved

Imo its like comparing them defensively. Drew is a notch or 2 below Dwight defensively and i feel like Howard is a notch or 2 below Drew Offensively. That shouldn’t b the case with the amount of touches he gets.

Dont get me wrong I would b happy if we got howard but anything less than Straight up and bit players and picks would b to much imo.

See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere

by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 8:54 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

He's better than Drew on Defense but not even close offensively

Plus its good to have a guy that can hit free throws at any point in the game. The health reason is the only reason id trade him cuz u just neva know wit Drew

See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere

by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 6:05 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

That's the only issue I have, the offensive game.

If we get Howard we absolutely NEED another playmaker on the wing. Howard can’t create for himself the way Bynum can (not that he’s completely inept, but still). Of course that block/interception where he just picked the ball out of the air last night speaks for itself in terms of his defensive ability!

by x Nightwing x on Dec 31, 2011 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh? Dwight gets the ball dumped down in the post and creates by himself all the time.

I realize that Bynum just went out and had a vintage Shaq game, but Dwight isn’t chopped liver at that end either.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

offense will just come around... Howard defense and rebound is superb

plus his pts per game isn’t so bad isn’t it? still, I’d take Howard any day…

by froZ3n on Dec 31, 2011 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

If you look at Bynum and Howard separately

yes Howard is the better player, but for the Lakers needs? i fail to see what Howard does to fill in our needs, yes he is the better defender and rebounder but these two areas are not the areas that we struggle in and they are definitely not two areas that Bynum is struggling in or not giving us enough… We need a shot creator or a ball distributor, trading Bynum for Howard is like trading an apple for two apples but you still got no water…

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

That's no reason not to do that trade though.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

If we give up Pau in it to get Jameer Nelson

I don’t see a reason to it, Jameer Nelson is definitely not the point guard the Lakers should be eyeing as a solution to their problems, not when Pau stock value could drag in a better player… Im with the D12 Bynum trade if it only involves Bynum, if it involves Pau i don’t like it, we get D12 and a relatively old point guard who averages 6 points, 5 assists, nah, with Pau we can get a better point guard than that or a better shooting guard, just we can get a better player who can create than J Nelson

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure, but you were discussing Bynum for Howard.

What to do with Pau is a different question altogether.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Bynum for Howard is a definite upgrade

But lets face it, Orlando wants Pau, if Mitch caves in and gives up Pau, even if we recieve J Nelson, then we will not be a better team, we’ll have a better center of course, but again that does nothing to fill in our gaps… All im saying is that Howard is clearly better than Bynum, but center is just not the Lakers weak spot… If the trade open up for a straight Bynum for D12, of course do it… But the FO should be looking at shoring up our play making problems first…

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

That is actually the main reason i want D12

to keep Cuban from doing anything other than being a total dick-wad haha

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Id love to get Deron

But i mean does anyone really believe its possible?

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess it just depends on what Deron wants and what NJ wants

because at this point if they don’t get Dwight he’s leaving and everyone knows they want to play together. NJ would need some type of all-star player to come in an be marketable so Idk, but if it gets to a no choice point then what can they do?

by Q.Calloway25 on Dec 31, 2011 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Minny. Minny. Minny.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Marc who?

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

He just signed a new contract. He ain't coming here.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 6:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he genuinely wants to go to NJ too...

No idea why… That team’s going nowhere, even with Deron.

by x Nightwing x on Dec 31, 2011 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Good big men want to play with elite point guards.

And Brooklyn is a pretty prime destination. This year is just exposing that the surrounding cast that would be around him is complete shit though.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Orlando lost a big piece of trade leverage when Lopez went down with injury.

And they aren’t exactly going to get better offers from other teams. The better Bynum plays this season, the harder it is for them to say no to any possible trade scenario.

As for the perimeter concerns, that’s more of a question of what to do with the Odom TPE more than anything.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah do you think we can get a straight Bynum D12 trade

because i think that would be just absolute Beast

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

There are still a lot of things that have to break our way for that to work out.

But I think we’re basically in the driver’s seat so long as Bynum plays well, New Jersey continues to suck, and Dwight keeps the list of teams he’s willing to sign an extension with to New Jersey, Dallas, and us. We definitely would still have to do some hijinks to take back Turk’s salary — and he’s not a bad playmaker when it’s all said and done — but altogether, I think our position is pretty strong right now.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

not to mention dwill is also sucking

body language not indicating he wants to endure this any further.

by bypasser on Dec 31, 2011 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Frankly, in my complete unbiased opinion...

The best place for Dwight would be Chicago. Can you imagine the defense?!

by x Nightwing x on Dec 31, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, him sucking so far has been the biggest surprise.

You’d think he’d be busting his ass to prove that this is a unit Dwight would be interested in joining, but he’s clearly frustrated that he has crap for a roster around him.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I've been very impressed by his defense.

Guards wings better nowadays but he’s pesky, gets in their face, and plays pretty solid positional defense. He’s basically just serviceable on offense, but he’d be more than solid as a backup wing off the bench.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Not as good as Hinrich.

And he struggles against faster twos, whom Hinrich guards ably.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Depends on your expectation level.

If you’re fine with Udrih, Ridnour, Hinrich, and similar, then sure. I wouldn’t mind Hinrich since he fills in the spot behind Kobe on the wings pretty well, although that wasn’t exactly the return I imagined when going over Odom trade scenarios in the summer.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Does anyone know of any possible scenario to get a better point guard than Jameer?

How good is Ridnour? (speaking of the K-Love trade scenario) I haven’t really seen him much.

by x Nightwing x on Dec 31, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I think we should be looking at any position

As long as the player can create.. The point guard position per say is not the actual problem… The actual problem is a lack of players outside of Kobe who can create… We really should be looking at point guards, shooting guard or even small forwards.. As for which players, i really haven’t looked into it to give you specific names…

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Right now! I'll trade Bynum to Howard, straight swap! why?

This is my main reason… Now’s the time, because we have an opportunity to get Dwight. If Bynum, goes down with his weak knees… we’re doom! All I am talking about is having a dominant centre all the time, every game and to many more years to come.

by froZ3n on Dec 31, 2011 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

You couldn't be more wrong...

From www.82games.com (stats for last season)

Field Goal % by Shot Type:
Jump: Bynum 44.0%; Howard 50.0%
Close: Bynum 55.6%; Howard 55.1%
Dunk: Bynum 92.6%; Howard 96.3%

Total Field Goal % on Inside Shots:
Bynum: 63.8%; Howard: 63.7%

Percent of Shots Taken Inside:
Bynum: 68%; Howard 68%

Percent of Shots Taken Inside that were assisted:
Bynum: 53%, Howard: 46%

So let me get this straight… Howard made jumpshots more efficiently than Bynum did last year; Howard and Bynum produced identical field goal percentages on close shots; and Howard did so without the need of teammates to set him up nearly as often as Bynum (fewer assisted baskets). How is Bynum far and away better offensively?

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn't FT shooting need to be incorporated into those stats

for them to be truly relevant? A possession that results in missed free throws is a wasted possession, yet wouldn’t show up in FG %.

by LAMojo on Dec 31, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

we can do that....

Howard goes to the line and converted at a 59.6% rate last year. Interestingly, his FG% was 59.3%. This means that whether or not Howard is fouled or not he still produces the same points per possession.

Bynum meanwhile converted free throws at an even better 66% but field goals at only 57.4%. So clearly it benefits the Lakers to have Bynum get fouled as it would produce more points than his normal offense (and more than Howard’s). So Bynum has an edge in efficiency at the line.

But the key takeaway is that each time Howard goes to the line, that possession is expected to produce more points than Bynum’s regular offense. Anyone who views Howard’s poor free throw percentage fails to recognize that even at only 59% his free throws still produce more points than a teams traditional offense, not to mention puts his team in the bonus faster which is a huge benefit to good shooters like Kobe and Gasol.

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 7:40 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

THIS ^^^^

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

Lamar Odom - "Half Swiss-Army knife, half Pez-dispenser" Meriones

by LakerAce on Dec 31, 2011 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying you're wrong.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. But if you’re going to use pure statistics as a representation of a players ability to make shots, the amount of trips to the FT line and FT % need to be incorporated into the calculations.

by LAMojo on Dec 31, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, TS% does this.

The main point is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is minute and Howard has the edge if any does exist. Given that Howard is the superior defensive player (and no legitimate analyst would disagree) it is clear that Howard is the better player.

My post was meant to challenge the view that some field Bynum’s offensive game is so vastly superior to Howards that it makes up for the defensive difference.

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

correction*

My post was meant to challenge the view that some feel Bynum’s offensive game is so vastly superior to Howard’s that it makes up for the defensive difference.

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you really put up a correction for Howard's

LOL…

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by lakergirl on Dec 31, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

no... for "feel" instead of "field"

I just correct “Howard’s” at the same time.

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh ok

:)

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by lakergirl on Jan 1, 2012 1:56 AM PST up reply actions  

How would usage and or minutes played figure into this?

Those numbers are good except when comparing their Fg att and minutes played. Even free throw att depend on touches. where Drew has been the 3rd option his overall numbers arent that far off from Dwights as the 1st option. I would go back to how Drew was playing pre injury the year we got Pau. That would b more of an accurate comparison.

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by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 9:11 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

jus to clarify

I meant Calculate in their usage, min played, fg att etc

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by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 9:13 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

All the stats I gave are efficiency stats so usage and minutes doesn't come into play

Besides, it is well known within the basketball stats world that as usage increases efficiency decreases. It is not easy to gain more wide-open dunks to improve efficiency. If a player has increases their usage it is because they are shouldering more of the load and as a result have to try to produce in more difficult situations. These situations that they are now “using” decreases efficiency.

The facts are that Howard is just as efficient (if not more) per minute, despite having a higher minutes and higher usage rate as he is asked to create more offense for his team. Please try to find stats that show Bynum as the superior offensive player. If Bynum is truly a notch or two better than Howard it should be very easy to provide stats to support it, after all I could provide a ton of stats on the defensive end to support Howard as the better player.

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm a little late to this discussion,

but I want to make a point. As far as usage effecting(Affecting? I should pay more attention in my English courses.) the numbers, if it does effect anything, it only helps Dwight more. A general trend is that your efficiency goes down with a higher usage rating, as an offense relies on you to take more difficult/bailout shots. Dwight is absolutely relied on to create when the offense is stagnant in Orlando, and Drew is definitely not in LA. Drew’s lower usage rating should skew the results in his favor, if anything. I love Drew, but it needs to be stated clearer sometimes: He’s not Dwight. He’s damn good, but Dwight is possibly the best player in the league.

by Aethereal on Dec 31, 2011 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't go that far.
Dwight is possibly the best player in the league.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
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by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Actuarially Sound would disagree.

He made a very compelling case on why Dwight should have been MVP last season. Quite eye-opening.

by weak sauce on Dec 31, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

You are correct sir....

I am a big believer of advanced stats and while no single stat is perfect (they all have flaws), when taken together they can provide a pretty good estimate of a players worth:

PER is a box score based efficiency statistic. It does very well with offensive efficiency but not defensive as it only considers steals, blocks, and defensive rebounding. It undervalues the top defenders (Hollinger would agree).

Howard ranked 2nd last year behind Lebron James

Win shares is a statistic designed to measure the wins a player contributed to their team. It is done separately for offensive and defensive contributions. The defensive contributions are tough to assign to an individual player though so it too undervalues great defensive players.

Howard ranked 2nd last year behind Lebron James

Adjusted Plus-Minus is a statistic that measures the impact of a player when on and off the floor and adjusts for the level of skill of the other players on the floor. It is (in my opinion) the best statistic at picking up the individual defensive contributions but it can be skewed depending on the quality of the player backing up the other players.

Howard ranked 3rd last year behind Nash and Paul. With Nash and Paul, their back-up PG’s were significantly less skilled and thus when these two were out of the games the offenses fell of a cliff. Howard was backed up by a very solid player in Gortat.

Those are three very different ways of calculating a players contributions. While each has a flaw, they all place Howard as a top 3 player and none of them come to a consensus of a player that is better than him. They all suggest that the best player is either Howard or Lebron and from their it is debatable and really subjective.

by Actuarially Sound on Jan 1, 2012 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice analysis

Combined with the earlier look that showed remarkably similar numbers between Howard and Bynum, how did Bynum stack up in these categories last year?

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by deadmuse on Jan 1, 2012 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Here you go...

Bynum ranked as follows:

PER: 20th
Win Shares per 48 minutes: 9th
Adjusted Plus Minus: 19th

Clearly Bynum is an All-Star caliber player (consistently top 20 across all three stats). His PER (20th) is a little understated due to not measuring the impact he has on the defensive end. Win Shares per 48 minutes were top 10, picking up his defensive contributions. Adjusted plus/minus was 19th and probably a little understated due to having very strong back-ups in Gasol and Odom.

In the previous stats in which Bynum and Howard were consistent was focused on the efficiency and methods in which the two players score. What separates Bynum and Howard in the rankings is that Howard has a higher usage rate. In other words, Howard does what Bynum does, just more often adn thus contributes more.

by Actuarially Sound on Jan 1, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

thanks

Seems that trend continues even in this short season with Dwight playing the entire second half last night.

"McRoberts is not as talented as LO but he is hungrier and I don’t mean for candy." - Jelly Bean

"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." - John Wooden

by deadmuse on Jan 1, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh,

Part of the reason I think Dwight’s that good is because I firmly believe that being a two-way player is incredibly important. And since Kobe’s defensive decline, Dwight has the best combination of Offense and Defense. I think the great offensive players in the league aren’t anywhere near elite defenders.

But I don’t have (nor do I really want to look up) defensive numbers on Lebron, CP3, or Wade, so I could be way off base.

by Aethereal on Dec 31, 2011 11:40 PM PST up reply actions  

also, True Shooting % is a stat that incorporates Free Throws

True Shooting % last year:
Bynum: 60.6%
Howard: 61.6%

Effective FG% last year:
Bynum 57.4%
Howard 59.3%

So Howard’s traditional offensive game is more efficient by 1.9%. When free throws are incorporated it improves Bynum’s efficiency more but it only closes half of the gap in efficiency. Howard is still the more efficient scorer.

by Actuarially Sound on Dec 31, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

wow that is cool

ridiculous how close they are in some categories

how you doin'
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by bluexfalcon on Dec 31, 2011 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Right?

I’d always suspected they were similar offensively, but damn.

by Aethereal on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Field Goal % does not tell the whole story

If that was the case than Kobe would be beat by Lebron offensively every year, but we know Kobe is far superior offensively than Lebron. Bynum is superior (offensively) than Howard when healthy.

by nitotech on Jan 1, 2012 12:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Kobe has more offensive skills...

But he is not better than Lebron offensively (at least not anymore). I am as big a fan of Kobe’s as anyone, but Lebron’s freakish size, strength, and atheleticism more than make up the fewer skills he has. Kobe may be the best when it comes to foot work and hitting a tough fadeway, but if Lebron doesn’t need the fadeaway because he can get right to the rim and dunk the ball then it would be more efficient to do so, even if it isn’t as pretty and doesn’t require as much skill.

by Actuarially Sound on Jan 1, 2012 8:42 AM PST up reply actions  

I think this is the issue with the Dwight v. Bynum comparisons as well.

People are failing to distinguish between skill in the post and overall offensive effectiveness.

by LAMojo on Jan 1, 2012 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

3-TIME DPOY!

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
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by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ive been on this kick since the final minutes of the 4th quarter

Kobe needs to stop with the end game iso’s especially if we have an on fire Bynum. Yes we won but Kobe almost single handedly blew it at the end. Before those he was gold.
Drew was well Drew. His health is the only reason i would trade him for Howard. He can do the same things plus his offensive game is way past Dwight’s at this point. Good win we stole one. We need to make a move for another Guard/penetrator. The 2nd team desperately needs that option

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by EmmCeee on Dec 31, 2011 5:36 PM PST via Android app reply actions  

Honestly, the only reason I'd want to trade Bynum is the possibility of getting a really good point in Jameer.

Of course that would mean including Pau. But honestly, I’d be fine with keeping him… Or trading him… I think we’re in a pretty great position!

by x Nightwing x on Dec 31, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

noway, against any trade for D12 that includes both Bynum and Gasol

Gasol is definitely worth more than a Jameer Nelson, i think if mitch shops him around we can get a better guard, and we dont need just a point guard, it could be a shooting guard, hell it could be a small forward like Igoudala, we just need someone other than Kobe who can create… Jameer Nelson had one breakout season, granted he’s an upgrade over Fish, but an upgrade worth losing Pau over? noway

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I was just talking about a trade scenario where we trade Bynum.

Of course we could probably get a really good pg for Pau. But that has nothing to do with the Howard trade…

by x Nightwing x on Dec 31, 2011 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Am I the only one who was disappointed by Pau's performance?

I’m not talking about the rebounds. His offensive game just disappeared. If you recall Fisher’s hustle play, it happened after Pau had the ball all by himself on the right wing. Nene was the only person in front of him. Instead of driving it toward the basket and going for the layup like a big should do, he dribbles away from Nene and toward the free throw line, where all the Nugget defenders are. Then he jumps into the air without any clear passing lane and blindly throws it to a spot on the left wing unoccupied by anyone. The ball bounced several times before Fish snatched it.

This is just one of the instances where Pau looked – don’t hate me – soft. He wanted to avoid the contact and nearly turned it over. There were other times too where he fumbled the ball or didn’t anticipate the pass. I appreciate the jumpers he made, but they’re not going to fall like they did today every night. When Bynum’s not in the game, he needs to dominate the post like he did last year without Bynum.

"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy

by Mister Larry on Dec 31, 2011 6:01 PM PST reply actions  

Brown is playing with lineups.

And Barnes earned some playing time and proved it again tonight. He’s just seeing who is going to be effective.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see Devin Ebanks with a spot in the rotation long term

It’s nice to light a fire under MWP/Barne’s asses, but they are perfect players for Mike Brown

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Dec 31, 2011 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually think he starts tomorrow

since it’s a back-to back and they are going to denver

by gen!e on Dec 31, 2011 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Behind the bench I believe.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Out with a shoulder injury until mid-January.

Wouldn’t mind him for the TPE, although you question why Atlanta would let him go.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you think we can get Paul Milsap with the TPE ben?

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Probability of that dropped when Okur got traded.

They don’t really need the salary relief now. Favors would have to be beasting for them to consider it, IMO, and Kanter would have to show some nice play as well.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 31, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

too expensive as backup for teague

still can’t get over that we have 5 sfs. someone or two has to go.

by bypasser on Dec 31, 2011 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

he's serviceable and shores up a lot of holes and that may make atlanta hold on to him

with okur gone, and unless favors does get favored, it will be hard to snag millsap from utah. he may be part of their future plans. scola is also doing well in hou.

but after a d12 trade (assuming gasol is included for nelson and turk), using that tpe for a big becomes a must-do. maybe beasley from minny?

by bypasser on Dec 31, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

i wonder how brown employs his twin tower scheme

from highlights i didn’t see much difference from what we’ve seen before.

i also hope bynum shapes us fast. he may cost us with his speed and athleticism.

by bypasser on Dec 31, 2011 6:38 PM PST reply actions  

team howard

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by Czheck on Dec 31, 2011 6:45 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Im a team Bynum guy

Bynum is a Laker child, but no denying Howard is better, so i can’t oppose a trade that improves the Lakers, but i can cry like a girl =(

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh by the way minor minor wrong detail in the article

Bynum had 29 point, not 28… hehe

"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson

by Funkensteinn on Dec 31, 2011 6:58 PM PST reply actions  

Gotta love the Yahoo Sports NBA front page.

It says: "Who needs Dwight Howard? Andrew Bynum helped lift the Lakers past the Nuggets with a dominant effort in his season debut. "

Proud to be a brony.

by yoshifan on Dec 31, 2011 7:02 PM PST reply actions  

Trade value rising

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by Hdg23 on Dec 31, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Let's see:

Suns are getting routed by the Thunder.
Knicks are doing well against the Kings.
76ers have just taken over the game in halftime.

Proud to be a brony.

by yoshifan on Dec 31, 2011 7:04 PM PST reply actions  

Andrew. Freaking. Bynum.

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Desean’s not quite at Holts level.
McCoy’s giving Faulk a run for his money.
Maclin’s better than Bruce.
Warner never took over games."
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by douchiedude on Dec 31, 2011 7:05 PM PST reply actions  

Dwight Whoard?

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"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." - John Wooden

by deadmuse on Dec 31, 2011 7:39 PM PST reply actions  

#TeamBynum

cal. lakers. dodgers. packers. chelsea.
vols. rangers. galaxy.

by cldpc on Dec 31, 2011 8:03 PM PST reply actions  

Why the Lakers are going to make it to the Finals*

Today’s game should remind everyone that the Lakers are still championship contenders. I hate to do this but I’ll use the Celtics as an example. in 2010 the Celtics had many games like the Lakers did today at least offensively. But what made them survive all the way to the Finals was their gritty defense. We can list all the bad things of todays game but all of that is nullified by their defense. Everyone played (except Fisher) uncharacteristically bad offensively but did all the right things defensively. Look at Kobe’s rebounds (reminder of game 7 finals), Fisher’s hustle play, Pau’s block and Bynum’s game (no description needed). So while this game might upset you for their flaws it should get you pumped up because this team just showed us a glimpse of how a championship contender plays even when everything else is going so wrong. Love your Lakers everyone…Love your Lakers.

I apologize if you get mad by what I say, let me know when you take the stick out of your ass so I can continue commenting.

by Jelly Bean on Dec 31, 2011 8:05 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

when was this pic taken? got reminded of the Laker Lord's Prayer tradition under Phil

The Bernel Zone

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by bernel on Jan 1, 2012 5:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Yesterday in the tunnel before the game.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jan 1, 2012 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

not sure. Maybe it was yesterday.

I apologize if you get mad by what I say, let me know when you take the stick out of your ass so I can continue commenting.

by Jelly Bean on Jan 1, 2012 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

When do we get Steve Nash ?

We get Nash and were in the finals …..don’t need Howard .

by Ed@northridge on Dec 31, 2011 8:49 PM PST reply actions  

how?

no way do you send Bynum or Pau for a guy who is headed for retirement. Cant sign him after the season since we’re way over the cap or use the TPE either.

by shaqfor3 on Dec 31, 2011 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

When I watch the Heat this year and then the Lakers

I cant help but think a zone would really give them trouble. Any chance the Lakers run some zone this year?

"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski

by cerebralfish on Jan 1, 2012 8:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I know he's no longer the MVP,

but I think he deserves more than the minimum. I know the Lakers can’t really offer more, but I think it’s almost insulting for a player with that much offensive impact to get the minimum.

by Aethereal on Dec 31, 2011 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Without a doubt.

The only way he’d take that is to chase a ring. I’d offer the mini-MLE for Nash as well.

by weak sauce on Jan 1, 2012 12:13 AM PST up reply actions  

lol

Wait, I think I accidentally flagged your post. Sorry, meant to rec it. =[

by Division by Zero on Jan 1, 2012 6:27 AM PST up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 31, 2011 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Can someone explain the ass backward minutes

compared to the previous 4? And yes, I did notice a certain 7 footer back, but from not being able to watch it…. was it a totally diff mindset?

by Svedish Chef on Dec 31, 2011 8:54 PM PST reply actions  

Weird game today...

Note: Kobe was 1 assist away from a triple-double O_O

He didn’t seem to have as dominant of a game as the stats show, but good job Lakers.

Go Lakers Go!

Go Sharks!

by Dmitriy on Dec 31, 2011 9:10 PM PST reply actions  

His shooting wasn't great (other than a short Kobe stretch where he hit 3 in a row)

and his decision-making in the final minutes (as it has been all this year) was horrible, but otherwise, he played a very solid, team-oriented game, and considering we lack a true point guard, it shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise that he approached a triple double.

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 31, 2011 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Check out my new fanpost, and let me know what you think in the poll.

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/12/31/2673828/nba-team-efficiency-chart

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 31, 2011 11:22 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Nice job

It is actually something I was planning on making part of the regular work done on this site. Look for us to provide some charts like this as well as ones showing trends through the season once all the teams have a few more games under their belts.

by Actuarially Sound on Jan 1, 2012 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

GalLOLnari

Thanks for the win, DaniLOL…

I never thought I’d say this about a Laker team, but they need to work on their offense… Like you know, not waiting until there’s 5 secs on the shot clock to make a move…

#FAILFORMIKHAIL
#SUCKFORGALCHENYUK

by Paul Udani on Dec 31, 2011 11:40 PM PST reply actions  

random anecdote

i’m watching the game on my laptop at HK airport and MWP makes a dish to Kap for the 3. a businessman behind me screams “World Peace! World Peace!”

and I LOVE the fact that we have 2 seven footers

home in Australia, roots in Taiwan, but my heart will always belong to the city of angels.

Greatness begins today.

by keonidd on Jan 1, 2012 12:37 AM PST reply actions  

LOL, peeps watching the Lakers all around the world. Awesome.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jan 1, 2012 12:51 AM PST up reply actions  

dang! welcome.

I apologize if you get mad by what I say, let me know when you take the stick out of your ass so I can continue commenting.

by Jelly Bean on Jan 1, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Quick Edit
Drew we’ve seen from time to time who’s whose offensive skill and polish are far above any other center

Also, I didn’t realize how much I missed reading these recaps, Mr. Fishmore. Thanks for the work.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." - Voltaire

by Gil Meriken on Jan 1, 2012 1:17 AM PST reply actions  

quick edit
Also, I didn’t realize how much I missed reading these recaps, Mr. Fishmore Clark. Thanks for the work.

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Jan 1, 2012 1:31 AM PST up reply actions  

lol.... doh!

"Where Yo Curleh Mustache at!?"

"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." -Gil Meriken

by Hensi24 on Jan 1, 2012 3:53 AM PST up reply actions  

OOPS

I am losing it.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." - Voltaire

by Gil Meriken on Jan 2, 2012 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Year's ended, remembering those who shoud be in Lakerland

Spero Dedes, Chris Paul, & Lamar Odom.

Wishing them all the best, though it makes me sad to think of them elsewhere.

"McRoberts is not as talented as LO but he is hungrier and I don’t mean for candy." - Jelly Bean

"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." - John Wooden

by deadmuse on Jan 1, 2012 5:16 AM PST reply actions  

I am not sure you can use both Paul and Odom.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Jan 1, 2012 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like to I told you so...

But um come one…I def rant and rave about giving Bynum his props! haha.

The kid is a major talent and he seems to have a very Kobe-esque attitude when people tell him he can’t do it. “What’s that, I can’t have more shots? Ok then I’ll just run the floor rebound every single miss and dunk on someone’s face…that’s more shots.”

He’s going to get scary as hell as the season goes on.

by rshinsec on Jan 1, 2012 5:26 AM PST reply actions  

agreed

His skill set and dominance combo reminds me of a Kareem/Wilt hybrid. Don’t know if there’s ever been a player like that. Still, I’d take Dwight and his smaller skillset for his greater health reliability.

"McRoberts is not as talented as LO but he is hungrier and I don’t mean for candy." - Jelly Bean

"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." - John Wooden

by deadmuse on Jan 1, 2012 5:35 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd like to see Goudelock play more,

He can feed the post, and so can Darious. Both can hustle/speed with adequate D for coach.
But their ability to feed the post would take Bynums game up a notch.

by look closer on Jan 1, 2012 2:04 PM PST reply actions  

well it was a kobe milestone game..

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Jan 2, 2012 4:46 AM PST reply actions  

OH LOL. hahahahaha

THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.. THE POWER OF SHAW COMPELS YOU.....

by imposibol on Jan 2, 2012 4:52 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL, derp.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Jan 2, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  


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