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Shannon Brown Not Likely To Return, Lakers Peruse Free Agent Market

ATLANTA - MARCH 31:  Jamal Crawford #11 of the Atlanta Hawks drives between Shannon Brown #12 and Pau Gasol #16 of the Los Angeles Lakers at Philips Arena on March 31, 2010 in Atlanta, Georgia.  NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and/or using this Photograph, User is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement.  (Photo by Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images)

As the wheels continue to turn on what has been an offseason chock filled with trade rumors, much to the consternation of Hornets and Magic fans, I think we can all say that we're simply happy to be able to talk about basketball instead of the latest on a soul-crushing and mind-numbing lockout. On that note, we have new information regarding Shannon Brown, whom we reported yesterday had been contacted by the Lakers to gauge Brown's interest in returning. Courtesy of the plugged in and always astute Kevin Ding of the Orange County Register, who discussed the issue with Mitch Kupchak, we can put a damper on that talk:

Kupchak expects Shannon Brown to get a better FA deal away from Lakers. Neither Theo Ratliff nor Joe Smith will return.

The market might determine how this goes, but as we noted yesterday, the Lakers should likely be looking elsewhere to fill the backup two guard spot behind Kobe, partly out of a lack of confidence that Brown is going to recreate his borderline Sixth Man of the Year performance at the start of last season and the fact that there are better options available in free agency. On the subject of free agency, Ding also gave us Kupchak's assessment of what is looking for on the market:

Kupchak is hoping to add a player on back end of career who has already made money, can still offer minutes and wants a title.

For anyone who has watched the progression of contending squads, this is par for the course. Bereft of significant financial flexibility, you open your doors for the ring-chasing vets who will take a discount to chase a title and are still solid rotation players. After the jump, we will go over some of the players the rumor mill has been connecting the Lakers with.

Star-divide

Most of this comes from Hoopsworld's Alex Kennedy, who has also noted that the Lakers have been burning the phone lines for the last 48 hours, so it's nice to see that Kupchak is doing his due diligence. In any case, Kennedy, along with Newsday's Alan Hahn, claims that the Lakers are looking at Phoenix free agent Grant Hill

Grant Hill has drawn interest from a number of contenders. The Phoenix Suns want to re-sign Hill, but teams like the New York Knicks, Los Angeles and Miami Heat would all love to have him as well, according to sources close to the situation. They see him as a reliable veteran and excellent leader who can help them compete for a championship.

Hill fits the mold that Kupchak mentions pretty well -- a 39 year old veteran who is still productive and looking for a chip before ending his career. The problem is that Hill is a three and occasional smallball four, so he doesn't necessarily fill a position of need unless the Lakers are actively looking into using the amnesty clause on Metta World Peace. While one could see Hill as possibly an upgrade on MWP, as while he's not quite as masterful as MWP is on defense, he's much better offensively, this wouldn't be an especially good allocation of resources, as Hill would almost certainly command a good chunk of the Lakers' mini MLE. Moreover, most indications say that he wants to end his career in Phoenix, which is admirable, but not likely to give him a ring before he hangs up his jersey for good.

Continuing down the rumor mill, Kennedy lists the Lakers as one of the teams interested in Atlanta free agent and former Sixth Man of the Year Jamal Crawford:

A number of teams made calls to Crawford’s camp on Wednesday including the New Jersey Nets, New Orleans Hornets, Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat, Los Angeles Lakers, Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns and Portland Trail Blazers, according to sources close to the situation.

As with Arron Afflalo, whom we discussed yesterday, Crawford represents the upper tier of the two guard market, and even with his decline last season, he remains a relatively explosive offensive player and could provide some spark for the Lakers' otherwise moribund second unit. Whether Crawford is interested in taking the pay cut that would be required to come to L.A. is another question altogether, but despite his faults -- his comically bad rebounding, lackadaisical defense, and proclivity for long twos over threes -- he would be a bargain for the mini MLE and be a significant pickup.

After Hill and Crawford, however, the quality of the names the Lakers have been linked to declines precipitously. One such personage is Crawford's teammate in Atlanta and former Laker Maurice Evans:

Maurice Evans, who displayed his leadership throughout the NBA’s labor negotiations, has received interest from a number of teams as well. The Washington Wizards acquired Evans prior to last year’s trade deadline and would love to re-sign him. He was a contributor and mentor during his brief stint in Washington and they would love to have him back. However, several contenders such as the San Antonio Spurs, Boston Celtics, Miami Heat and Los Angeles Lakers have reached out to Evans’ camp as well. Don’t be surprised if teams look to sign Evans with the new mini mid-level exception.

I'm not sure where Kennedy gets the notion that Evans is worth the mini MLE because he was a pretty terrible player last year, his declining athleticism and middling shooting combining to make what had been a half-decent backup two-way swingman an end of rotation player. Evans more or less represents rock bottom in the free agent market for wings -- taking a flyer on Tracy McGrady or Michael Redd would be a better move and both are already something the Lakers should only do after all other options are exhausted.

This same sentiment applies to the final player on our list, as Kennedy asserts that the Lakers have talked about Minnesota free agent Sebastian Telfair:

Sebastian Telfair has received interest from the New York Knicks, Utah Jazz and Los Angeles Lakers, according to sources. Telfair is excited for free agency because he’ll be able to choose his next destination, which hasn’t been the case early in his career. Since entering the league, Telfair has been traded multiple times, usually midseason. In fact, he hasn’t played with the same team for more than two seasons at a time and he’s had nine different head coaches. If Telfair lands in the right situation, with some structure, he could still be a significant contributor.

Again, I find it difficult to believe that a small guard who has put up four consecutive 10 PER seasons and never shot better than 50.0 TS% can do squat for a contending team, even one with point guards as terrible as the Lakers'. Telfair doesn't shoot well from outside, can't consistently run an offense, and gets bullied on defense due to his diminutive size. Given recent reports that Darius Morris looks like he's in great shape and has added 10 pounds of muscle onto his frame as well as worked on his shooting, we can probably safely say that Telfair will never be wearing the purple and gold, and he's representative of how terrible this free agent class is at the point guard position.

Altogether, all of these players are long shot candidates to join the Lakers, whether because they're out of the Lakers' price range or so terrible that the Lakers shouldn't give them any consideration. One way or another, the Lakers will have to fill the holes in their rotation behind Kobe at the two and Bynum at the five, and while Laker Land is fixated on the Dwight Howard saga, this should be Kupchak's primary focus until Otis Smith indicates that he's ready to listen to offers.

UPDATE (3:54 AM): Courtesy of ESPNLA's Dave McMenamin (h/t E-ROC), we have some more juicy tidbits on the Lakers' free agent search:

The Lakers have interest in Delonte West, who played for coach Mike Brown in Cleveland and last played for Boston, as a potential fill-in at guard and also are keen on Indiana free agent Josh McRoberts, according to a source with knowledge of their thinking. ESPN.com's Marc Stein reported that Denver free-agent guard Arron Afflalo is also on the Lakers' radar.

West is a quality combo guard, and previously played for Mike Brown in Cleveland for two and a half seasons, so that familiarity should be a plus. He can defend and play either guard position -- although he seems better at checking wings nowadays -- and showed last season in Boston that he can distribute the rock fairly well; the fact that he can fulfill the role of Kobe's backup in addition to providing a minor salve for the Lakers' point guard problems is a major plus for picking him up. West is a middling shooter with a fairly solid career 37.3 3P%, so he offers a fairly complete package for the Lakers' needs. He took the minimum last season to play in Boston, and while he likely is deserving of a slightly larger deal, it would be a bargain if the Lakers could pick him up at that price.

As for McRoberts ("McBobs"), he's an explosive backup frontcourt player, shooting well from outside (38.3 3P%) and at the rim (68.8%); last season he posted a 60.8 TS%, impressive for a player with a rather diverse offensive game. Moreover, he can put the ball on the floor and had quality distributing numbers for a big man (22.0 assist rate, fourth among power forwards), which should go along nicely with his potential new teammates in L.A. The reason why he's currently a free agent and not a fixture in the Pacers' lineup, especially given how moribund Indiana is at the four, is his poor defense, as he was frequently overpowered in strength matchups and has so-so lateral quickness. Nevertheless, he would be a solid pickup for the Lakers' second unit, although as with the report on the Lakers' interest in Rashard Lewis -- who is apparently not getting the amnesty axe -- one can question why the Lakers are looking at a player who is almost certainly a four considering a certain Lamar Odom is a fixture at the position. You can say that quality depth is quality depth, especially with backups for whom hard positional matchups mean less, but it's telling that the Lakers appear as if they're preparing for a possible future without Odom (*cough* Howard trade *cough*).

Follow this author on Twitter @brosales12.

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Comments

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At Probasketballtalk, John Krolik brings up a pretty salient point.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/02/pretty-much-everyone-wants-jamal-crawford/

With that many teams asking for Crawford, he’s bound to be overpaid (unless he really wants to come to the Lakers), so in the past, winning that bidding contest might have pushed the Lakers to offer the full MLE and four or five years, which gets you Crawford but is a pretty terrible deal considering his age. So being limited to $9 million/3 years is a bit of an idiot check for contending teams in this case, even for a team that could stomach having a contract like that on their payroll like the Lakers (cough Walton cough).

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 2, 2011 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

I had a dream...

that Dwight Howard and Kobe were in a sprite commercial together, Dwight was in a Lakers’ jersey. I know this doesn’t compete with MLKJ, and you were probably expecting something powerful, but it just goes to show just how much the thought of getting Dwight Howard has impacted my life (sniff, sniff)…..‘-’

by mr92687!!! on Dec 2, 2011 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

Gerald Green has been release from his commit to a Chinese basketball team.

Sign me up. Kelenna Azubuike could be healthy now. Josh Howard might be healthy as well. Everyone else will be too expensive for the Lakers.

by E-ROC on Dec 2, 2011 3:16 PM PST reply actions  

Hehe.

He said Gerald Green.

Silver Screen and Roll

Follow me on Twitter: @wondahbap

by wondahbap on Dec 2, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Eric Pincus detailed how the Lakers actually have more to spend due to Vujacic trade exception. Should they trade that is.

But Gerald isn’t even an NBA quality player. At the very least the Lakers have the mini MLE which is 3 years/$9.4 mill. That will still net a decent player.

Silver Screen and Roll

Follow me on Twitter: @wondahbap

by wondahbap on Dec 2, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

The Lakers aren't going to use that exception unless they try to acquire Barbosa.

Lately, the Lakers have been pinching their wallets given how deep they are in the luxury tax. That’s even before the new CBA. The organization has had exceptions before and let them expire. I don’t see that changing.

As for the $3 million luxury tax mle, I could see them getting Daequan Cook or Reggie Williams. Even then, I think Williams is out of their price because he’s a really good scorer and shooter from range. Then you have the Von Wafers of the world. The Lakers will be scrapping the heap to find a cheap wing to back up Kobe. They’ll have to find a veteran big as well.

by E-ROC on Dec 2, 2011 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Gerald Green Couldn't Make the Lakers Last Year

He was on the Summer League team and didn’t even get invited to camp. He can still beat up on scrubs but his game isn’t at an NBA level anymore.

by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 2, 2011 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't look at Eurocup 3 pt %

He only played 5 games and they have I closer 3 point line I think

by neokoros on Dec 2, 2011 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

It is closer. Three point line is a few feet in.

Still doesn’t change Green’s ability to shoot the three. He has a career percentage of 35.8% in the NBA along with seasons of 38%. In eight games in the D-League, he shot 45%. Unsustainable, of course, but lends to the idea that he can shoot the three.

He played 31 games in Eurocup with Samara in 2010-2011. Draftexpress doesn’t keep up with them often enough.

http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=RUSSIA&Team=1756&page=3&Stats=2011

Green is just an option. An option within the Lakers price range.

by E-ROC on Dec 2, 2011 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

The Lakers wouldn't take him for free.

Please explain then, why else then hasn’t he been in this league. What grand mistake are 29 other NBA teams making in failing to see what the championship-caliber (and championship or bust mindset) Lakers should see about Gerald Green?

Silver Screen and Roll

Follow me on Twitter: @wondahbap

by wondahbap on Dec 2, 2011 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

There is no grand mistake by other teams.

I don’t know why other teams decided not to give him another shot. Gerald Green is just another option that the Lakers should consider if they want shooting within their price range. Basically, the Lakers mindset should be to invite any shooters to their short training camp and see what sticks.

by E-ROC on Dec 2, 2011 5:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Gerald Green wishes he were even in that price range.

Not even Shannon will command the mini-mid level. There’s no way he improved his value this past season as opposed to the last two.

Silver Screen and Roll

Follow me on Twitter: @wondahbap

by wondahbap on Dec 2, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

What about Reggie Williams?

He’s a free agent and in my opinion is perfect for a backup 2 on any team. His defense is a bit lackadaisical (as with pretty much every Warrior of the past 10 or so years) but he’s a shooter (whichthe Lakers need) who can create for himself and others off the dribble (which the Lakers could really use especially because he’ll play alongside Steve Blake). He’s a really solid finisher, a capable rebounder, and overall a really legit player when focused .

This is where Kobe comes into play. I’ve seen Reggie in pretty much every game he has ever played for the Warriors, and while he is an extremely solid player, he occasionally loses focus and confidence (which is why he’s perfect for a backup role and not a starter role). KB24, should Reggie come here, is the perfect guy to ignite a fire and motivate Williams to play to his potential almost all of the time.

All in all, though, I think Reggie Williams is a player no one here at SSAR or on any of the major sites (ESPN, SI, etc) has taken into consideration when discussing solid pickups at the 2-guard position. He’s obviously not perfect, but he does so many things really well and addresses four glaring weaknesses that the Lakers have (relatively young, backup SG, shooter, creates off the dribble). Add in the fact that due to such low publicity, he could probably be picked up for the cheap.

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 2, 2011 3:47 PM PST reply actions  

Here are some highlights of his play for those of you unfamiliar with his work

Not the greatest video but the best I could find on short notice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NzpWH7IleU

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 2, 2011 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Williams is pretty decent

Probably in the Laker’s price range too.

by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 2, 2011 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

You basically just sold him to me,

and god could we use a shooter off the bench. Sounds like something we should be doing. Here’s hoping

by Aethereal on Dec 2, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I literally just thought of it today

The Warriors and Lakers are my teams.. I can’t believe it took me this long to make this connection. I think Reggie is perfect for what we need and could be obtained for a very reasonable price.

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 2, 2011 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I like Williams, but I never mentioned him as a possibility since I assumed it was a given that GS would resign him.

Is that potentially not the case now? Would Klay Thompson just assume his roster spot?

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 1:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Youth Movement

I’m sure the Lakers are going to put in a lot of effort at getting dudes in, but the fact that a lot of bad teams have to add millions to their payroll this year to get to the cap floor means that at least for this season the low level contract market is going to be pretty competitive. I kind of think that the Lakers are going to use those young legs they have on the bench already a lot this season, as that fits in with Mike Brown’s previous tactics. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lakers don’t use the mini-MLE this year.

by Derek Fisher Fan on Dec 2, 2011 4:01 PM PST reply actions  

OOOOHHHHH WEEELLL

UPS takes flight somewhere else then so be it

"Hardwork beats talent when talent fails to work hard"-Norm Nixon

There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

I'm on it so let's tweet: @B_M_Bizness

by BrittneyM on Dec 2, 2011 4:14 PM PST reply actions  

why not take a look at Jason Richardson?

perfect backup two for kobe, can stretch the floor with his shooting and has said he’s in the hunt for a ring. probably won’t be too expensive but who knows..

by markeemarc on Dec 2, 2011 5:04 PM PST reply actions  

I like McRoberts and West would be interesting if he could stay healthy.
The Lakers have interest in Delonte West, who played for coach Mike Brown in Cleveland and last played for Boston, as a potential fill-in at guard and also are keen on Indiana free agent Josh McRoberts, according to a source with knowledge of their thinking. ESPN.com’s Marc Stein reported that Denver free-agent guard Arron Afflalo is also on the Lakers’ radar.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7308313/gm-says-los-angeles-lakers-likely-limited-free-agency-cba

by E-ROC on Dec 2, 2011 5:08 PM PST reply actions  

I think Delonte West would be a good option for any team that can give him something to focus on.

Meaning, they need to playing for something more important than a playoff berth and have someone who knows how to get something productive out of him. Lakers would fit both of those criteria with his former coach Mike Brown, and a top 3 shot at the championship.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 3, 2011 1:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd be good with West if he comes cheap. Makes sense given that he can play and defend both guard positions.

Would generally prefer Dunleavy for that spot, but West would serve our purposes just fine. McRoberts would be a quality frontcourt pickup, and would add a lot of scoring spark to the second unit.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 3, 2011 3:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Delonte West is out of his mind?

I don’t like the West pickup as much but unfortunately it would be an upgrade to our bench. I think Reggie Williams, Grant Hill, Shane Battier or Jason Richardson would be good pickups for us. Hill and Battier would replace MWP if the Lakers are really going to give him up. Richardson is a great shooter and would be a very good backup 2. I like him better than Reggie Williams.

I don’t think we instantly need a pg, we have Steve Blake backing up Fish and Darius Morriss the rook who stands 6’6", I think we are alright at pg. We need to upgrade at C and SG on our bench.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 6:44 AM PST up reply actions  

He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but he appeared to get it in control recently.

Hill, Battier, and Richardson are out of our price range, as Williams probably will be given that he’s a restricted free agent. Agree somewhat on the PG situation; barring a clear and easy upgrade solution that presents itself, the Lakers aren’t going to improve on that front in free agency — unless Baron or West are signed — so they might as well focus their energies elsewhere.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Not if Hill or Battier

would be willing to accept the MLE. Then we could afford one of them. I like Battier the most because Grant Hill is my grandfathers class mate.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:21 AM PST up reply actions  

That's a big "if," and would only be true if they decided that they were coming to L.A. for less money despite better offers from other contending teams.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I know

but I’m such a optimist!

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I read a couple days ago that Battier is determined to go to a championship contender this year

So salary may not be an issue with Battier since most contending teams are over the cap and can only offer the MLE or mini-MLE.

I am not sure why, but I have a feeling he is more likely to end up in Miami or Chicago than LA.

by neokoros on Dec 4, 2011 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you! Mitch!

see ya wouldn’t wanna be ya! I like Shannon but I love the Lakers. Lets see who they get.

You know who I would really want but I don’t his status as far as his contract, Trevor Ariza. Just a thought.

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Dec 2, 2011 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

He's not a bad shooter.

Ariza is just being asked to do too much in Houston and New Orleans.

by E-ROC on Dec 2, 2011 5:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

still

not that great of a shooter and he has a terrible contract.

by shaqfor3 on Dec 2, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Why are we looking at all the old dudes, even older than Kobe?

Are we running Shady Pines Old Folks Home or something?

You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 2, 2011 5:58 PM PST reply actions  

Derek Fisher needs a roommate

to split the rent of course.

Ratliff and Smith kept raiding the fridge and stealing Derek’s Doritos.

by neokoros on Dec 2, 2011 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

those are two different offenses sexsalad

Derek could put up with them raiding the fridge, but once they took his Doritos without asking, game over.

by neokoros on Dec 4, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

for realz

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Dec 2, 2011 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, Ben

Good catch-up overview.

Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore

by DexterFishmore on Dec 2, 2011 6:25 PM PST reply actions  

I know we've been racking our brains thinking of B or C (or in the case of Green, D) list players to play the 2 behind Kobe

But if the Dwight/Hedo trade goes through (not a certainty, but definitely not out of the realm of possibility either), we will have 3 serviceable small forwards in Hedo, Barnes, and Metta (assuming Metta isn’t amnestied right away).

Could we just have either Barnes or Hedo play the 2 part-time behind Kobe and have that issue solved? Don’t flame me for this, just thinking out-loud and asking what ppl think of this.

*We also have Ebanks as another reserve SF as well

by neokoros on Dec 2, 2011 6:52 PM PST reply actions  

Not saying that we shouldn't get another decent SG if we can within our budget

But the situation of back-up SG may not be as dire as our PG and backup C positions.

by neokoros on Dec 2, 2011 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

We would still need a shooter

Is Hedo that good at shooting 3’s? Barnes was hot before he got injured last season. I think we could pick up a Jason Richardson or some other type of sharp shooter to help us out even if we got Hedo. I’m starting to think the player formally known and Artest may not be around much longer.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 6:48 AM PST up reply actions  

He would be the best shooter on the team if he came over.

41 3P% and 45.5% on long twos. Can shoot off the catch and off the pick-and-roll. As for Richardson, per above, he’s almost certainly out of our prince range.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:13 AM PST up reply actions  

That be a good upgrade then getting Hedo

Because our shooting outside is what is killing us.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:23 AM PST up reply actions  

He's an indifferent defender and has a massive contract, but yes, there are advantages he would provide.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Hedo is a good 3 point shooter

As Ben stated, he was 41.3% last year in 3 point percentage and he is 38.6% over his career. He scored more 3 pointers last year than any of the Lakers and he did so at a higher percentage than any Laker.

He was overhyped after the Magic Finals and he is overpaid, but he should help somewhat without our black hole in 3 point shooting. More importantly, unlike J-Rich who is out of our price range, Hedo will be forced on us anyways if we get Dwight.

by neokoros on Dec 4, 2011 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I shudder at the thought of Hedo getting eviscerated at two guard.

And I don’t think Barnes has the quickness to play guard. But there’s a variety of options available in terms of two guards — Mike Dunleavy, Delonte West, Kelenna Azubuike, Anthony Parker — so I don’t think filling that spot will be that much of a problem.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:10 AM PST up reply actions  

While Kupchak remained guarded with his answers, Lakers forward Matt Barnes was much more open when asked about the rumors surrounding his former teammate Howard.

“You know, I’ve been hearing Dwight. I’ve been hearing Baron [Davis]. I’ve been hearing stuff a lot lately,” Barnes said. “I’ve talked to both of those guys and they want to be here, so we’ll see what happens.”

"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."

by chaucer on Dec 2, 2011 7:20 PM PST reply actions  

if dwight wants to come to L.A. then it’s gonna happen.

"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."

by chaucer on Dec 2, 2011 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

My hopes are already up for Dwight (for better or worse)

I think its more of Baron I don’t want to get my hopes up for cause that’s something that the Lakers can’t control

by neokoros on Dec 2, 2011 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

i hear ya. i’d love it if both come. at the very least, let’s get dwight.

"They’re a very special group of men. Cherish them, you will not see their like again."

by chaucer on Dec 2, 2011 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

at the very least...

haha as if only dwight is a consolation :)

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 2, 2011 11:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

I can do without Baron with the way he has acted the last few times we played against him when he was a Clip.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 6:49 AM PST up reply actions  

How did he act?

I was busy watching Kobe and the rest of the Lakers

by neokoros on Dec 4, 2011 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats good to hear

If he wants to be here, and he lets the Magic know that he wants to be here then some how we have to work out something to make that happen. Maybe it happens before the season (hopefully, doubtfully) if not, I hope it happens soon.

All I do is WIN
We fly high, no lie......... EAGLES!!
Follow me on Twitter @FRESHPRINCE526

by BIGBO on Dec 2, 2011 8:29 PM PST up reply actions  

damn!

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Dec 2, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I will shit a house of bricks

If we get both Baron Davis and Dwight Howard

"I don't mind being the goat. I don't mind being the villain, hated. I've been that my whole career, so it's not like that's anything new. I don't mind people jumping on the bandwagon or jumping off. I just focus on playing the game." -Ron Artest

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius

by Hdg23 on Dec 2, 2011 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

:D

DO EEEEEEEETTTTTTT!!!!

"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."

by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 2, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Reggie Williams is a very intriguing player

One I’d love to have on the team.
As for backup big? LOOK NO FURTHER THAN MR. BOOMTHO HIMSELF, ROD BENSON.

Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.

by LOOOeee on Dec 2, 2011 8:13 PM PST reply actions  

Isn't he still in like South Korea or something?

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Dec 2, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 2, 2011 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Three words

Bone on Bone

La Illaha Illallah Muhamadur Rasulallah

by AbuFatimah on Dec 2, 2011 11:07 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL!

Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl Champs Tony Romo Super Bowl MVP
-Me, October 3,2011

by KB_24 on Dec 3, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

That means his career will end much earlier than expected.

He can still perform at a high level in limited minutes, which is exactly what we need in Kobe’s backup.

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by LakerAce on Dec 3, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I love B Roy

Didn’t even cross my mind. If the All Time Greatest Husky comes and joins my Lakeshow. I would die, even if he is bone on bone. Dude can still play, especially backing up KB24.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 6:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Then trade Bynum, Odom and a 1st rd pk for.....

Howard and Hedu Turkgalou.
We could even sign and trade Shannon Brown in the same deal.
Then if we waive Artest, we can get Nick Young.

by look closer on Dec 2, 2011 11:26 PM PST reply actions  

You can't sign and trade someone within days

I believe the waiting period is 6 months

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Instead of Shannon Brown we should just give them $3 million

Makes it a lot easier. Money doesn’t have a say in where it goes.

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I know that there is a 6 month waiting period after receiving a player via trade before you can sign them to a new deal

But as for sign-and-trade, it seems pretty nebulous. I was also under the impression that there was a waiting period after signing someone before you can trade from some articles I read, but after reading this http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one, it makes it seem like sign-and-trades are currently allowed (with changes in the 2013-14 season for certain teams), but it’s hard to know what is what in this new CBA (especially since its not finalized). The new CBA is pretty confusing with certain rules applied to tax paying teams $4 million over the cap, other rules for tax paying teams less than $4 million over the cap, and other rules for non-taxed teams, with new rules and limitations phased in over time. I don’t know if the ESPN article is correct; Marty do you remember where you read about the 6 month wait?

ESPN Article – “Taxpaying teams have a smaller midlevel exception, can acquire less salary in trade, and cannot use the biannual exception. Starting in 2013-14, teams more than $4 million above the tax level cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction.”

by neokoros on Dec 3, 2011 12:10 AM PST up reply actions  

I thought I had read it in the brief summary CBA posted online, but it was a minute ago that i read it.

I’ll have to go back and look through it again. Or, if I’m wrong, someone can prolly update it sooner.

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Dec 3, 2011 4:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Send Bynum and Odom to Orlando for Howard and Redick.

Then we will have a servicable backup shooting gaurd.
The Amnesty clause is not worth sitting around and waiting with.
Use it on Artest or Walton and get moving before it’s too late, and we are sitting around looking at second rate players to chose from.

by look closer on Dec 3, 2011 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes to shaqfor3, Orlando has already stated they want to move Turk with any potential deals with Howard

Also, Orlando isn’t moving Redick for the heck of it (esp. for a non-2) because if they trade him and amnesty Arenas, they will have a hole at the 2.

by neokoros on Dec 4, 2011 1:18 AM PST up reply actions  

The amnesty clause is worth waiting for

as the new tax laws would make it easier for us to undo a situation if we’re in the tax heavily and it isn’t helping us

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Dec 4, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Thank goodness he's out

He was way too inconsistent

What is the nature of your thoughts, gentlemen, when you say "fuddle duddle" or something like that?

by RudeMood19 on Dec 3, 2011 1:27 AM PST reply actions  

Updated with the stuff from ESPNLA on West and McRoberts (h/t E-ROC).

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 3, 2011 3:59 AM PST reply actions  

Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady...

Both off the bench would be the best way to go. Like Mitch said. Vet players, who can put up quality minutes and towards the end of their career.

by kingofatlanta on Dec 3, 2011 6:43 AM PST reply actions  

and get older?!

Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl Champs Tony Romo Super Bowl MVP
-Me, October 3,2011

by KB_24 on Dec 3, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Younger and stronger with Howard

Season off the bench with McGrady and Hill. We have to get younger but we have 3 years to do it. Luke should retire. Fish will after this year (if he comes off the bench like he should) but we need Vets to help pull it together in a short season whit a short training camp and all new system. Hill is a a pure shooter and great on D and McGrady can put up 20 any given night.

by kingofatlanta on Dec 3, 2011 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

McGrady can't put up 20 any given night.

He’s a shadow of his former self and realized that, hence why he reinvented himself as a point forward. That and he’s so fragile that you can’t play him major minutes and his level of play changes a lot any given night based on his physical condition. He can provide something with his ability to pass the rock, but he’s so limited in other phases nowadays between his poor shooting and defense that it isn’t really worth it.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 3, 2011 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

hello ssr. just wondering if we could still put sasha's tpe to good use

was reading in another forum that we could sign and trade that tpe (an expiring $5.5 mil) for afflalo of the kinda rebuilding nuggets. this would give us the ideal kobe backup who can hit from range and defend. imagine a bench mob with him, barnes and what big men we have signed from FA (lewis, kwame).

i still believe we use darius morris and goudelocke, esp morris, to optimum so no need to wrangle that tpe for that pg. what we can do is get davis here, include blake in a trade for d12 or iggy (high on having both here i know), make fisher a playing coach of sorts and that helps the pg situation a bit.

and on to pipe…

i just feel luke being a tat selfish for not wanting to retire. he does make good trade fodder now with an expiring contract next year. i still believe we can package a bynum+artest+blake+pick for howard (d12 got leverage as the days go by) and lamar+walton+pick/ebanks for iggy.

so we’d be left with a lineup in dream world

pg – davis, morris, fisher
sg – kobe, afflalo, goudelocke
sf – iggy, barnes, ebanks
pf – pau, lewis, caracter
c – howard, brown

yup, only in a traLALA world. still GO LAKERS!

by bypasser on Dec 3, 2011 3:54 PM PST reply actions  

Not sure why people are so eager for us to take Kwame again.
"But like, the game before we traded for Pau, were playing Detroit and I had like 40 points towards the end of the game. This is back when Detroit had Rasheed [Wallace], Chauncey [Billups] and those guys, so we had no business being in the game. So down the stretch of the game, they put in a box and one. So I’m surrounded by these players, Detroit players, and Kwame is under the basket, all by himself. Literally, like all by himself. So I pass him the ball, he bobbled it and it goes out of bounds.

"So we go back to the timeout and I’m [upset], right? He goes, ‘I was wide open.’ ‘Yeah, I know.’ This is how I’m talking to him, like, during the game. I said, ‘You’re going to be open again, Kwame, because Rasheed is just totally ignoring you.’ He said, ‘Well, if I’m open don’t throw it to me.’ I was like, ‘Huh?’ He said, ‘Don’t throw it to me.’ I said, ‘Why not?’ He said, well, ‘I’m nervous. If I catch it and he foul me, I won’t make the free throws.’ I said, ‘Hell no!’

"I go to Phil [Jackson], I say, ‘Hey Phil, take him out of the game.’ He’s like, ‘Nah, let him figure it out.’ So, we lose the game, I go the locker room, I’m steaming. Steaming. I’m furious. Then, finally I get a call, they said, ‘You know what, we got something that’s happening with Pau.’ I was like, ‘Alright. Cool.’…That’s what I had to deal with the whole year."

You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 3, 2011 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Consider what the Lakers can afford and having Kwame as a back up would be great

he is an underated defender.

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Dec 3, 2011 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

my thoughts exactly

it’s not that am so eager to have him, but if there is none better and cheaper, than he is what he is

by bypasser on Dec 3, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes exactly.

"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant

by Jelly Bean on Dec 3, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions  

decent backup center

we had problems with him because he got starting minutes.

by shaqfor3 on Dec 3, 2011 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

He's also had time to grow up and get past the hype/anxiety of being a enormous draft bust

His confidence has improved over time, and he seems to know his limitations and focus on defense.

We could do worse and he is def. better than Smith and Ratliff combined.

My only question is how injury prone is he? He only averages 57.6 games/season over his career, but I don’t how many games were missed because of injury and how many were missed because he sucked. (Bynum averages 55 games/season over his career for reference)

by neokoros on Dec 3, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Where did you hear that his confidence has improved?

You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness

by SoCalGal on Dec 4, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt he'd want to go back to the Lakers anyway

Not after the way everyone just dumped all over him after he left. Not that any of it isn’t true, but still.

by Hokkun on Dec 3, 2011 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry

I never want Kwame again. Never!

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:06 AM PST up reply actions  

should have included the turk contract so in a way that lessens the need for iggy

pg – davis, morris, fisher
sg – kobe, afflalo, goudelocke
sf – turk, barnes, ebanks
pf – pau, lamar, caracter
c – howard, some backup C better than kwame (that fixes this)

still a legit contender here.

by bypasser on Dec 3, 2011 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

sorry, FAgency feels like light years away. another idea is one i incorporated with ben r's very good idea

orl trades: d12, turk
lal trades: bynum, odom

why orl does this: picking the lesser evil (which isn’t that bad) over the deep blue sea
why lal does this: a ton of reasons mentioned already

philly trades: iggy, brand, lou williams
lal trades: pau, mwp, walton, blake (and i add a first round pick)

why philly does this: letting iggy go (if they aren’t so high on him), salary dump, flexibility
why lal does this: perimeter defense while keeping offensive options competitive

we then sign lewis with mle
we sign and trade tpe for afflalo or another backup sg/sf (shane battier?)
we sign kwame/whoever is there with vet minimum
we amnesty turk

orl lineup: nelson, arenas, anderson, odom, bynum
philly lineup: drue, turner, mwp, pau, speights
lal lineup:
pg – williams, morris, fisher
sg – bryant, afflalo, goudelocke
sf – iggy, barnes, lewis, ebanks
pf – brand, lewis, caracter
c – dwight, brown

must be a sloowwww week.

by bypasser on Dec 3, 2011 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant the Philly trade as the only feasible way a trade involving Pau to the Sixers after a Dwight deal could work out.

Not that it was necessarily a good trade.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 3, 2011 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I want to keep pau

I like the second lineup Bypasser showed, except have Hedo off of the bench and Barnes starting.

pg – davis, morris, fisher
sg – kobe, afflalo, goudelocke
sf – barnes, turk, ebanks
pf – pau, lamar, caracter
c – howard, some backup C better than kwame

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Afflalo is a pipe dream, it's too difficult to make it happen.

Wouldn’t bench Turk in that lineup; his shooting is pretty much a necessity with four other middling or below average shooters starting. Also, the chance of Odom not being shipped out in the Howard trade is about zero, and what happened to Blake and MWP? We can’t amnesty both and given that the harsher lux tax doesn’t kick in yet, the Lakers probably won’t use the amnesty clause yet either. As for Kwame, he’s be a perfectly serviceable backup in that rotation. There are better options available, but for what he would be asked to do, he would be fine.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:16 AM PST up reply actions  

But this is my dream lineup for this season

pg – Fisher, Blake, Morris
sg – Kobe, J Rich, goudelocke
sf – Battier, Barnes
pf – pau, Odom, Turkoglu
C – Howard, Odom, Character

That would be a good 12/13 man lineup for this season. We would play small off the bench with Odom playing some center but usually Gasol plays center when the backups come in.

I think we should give the youngster Morris a try at pg this year. Then next year go after D Will in free agency to replace Fish and Blake with Morris backing him up.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:17 AM PST up reply actions  

That to me is a championship lineup

And I agree Ben R we can’t set rid of Blake and MWP. I was just stating what lineup I liked the best.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:19 AM PST up reply actions  

If J Rich is out of our price range

I still like the lineup despite not having J Rich. Plug a fa SG in and it would still be a daunting task to beat us.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Again, Odom would have to be shipped out in any potential Howard deal.

We can’t possibly get Richardson and Battier since both would command the entire mini MLE, and both would have to take a paycut by ignoring better offers to come here. Past that, Battier isn’t that much of an upgrade on MWP, Turk is going to play at the three primarily, and the Lakers are almost certain to get a backup five in free agency, along with a backup four if there is a Howard trade.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 7:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Poss 3-Team deal with:

Bogut to Orlando,
Bynum to Milwukee,
Howard to LA.
Sounds good to me! A third team is usually what gets it done.
I Don’t want Iggy, I want D Wil. And I’d do whatever it took to get him.
Howard and D. Wil should be the future of the Lakers…….

by look closer on Dec 3, 2011 10:53 PM PST reply actions  

I can't see Milwaukee giving up Bogut for Bynum

I think Bynum is better (not as consistent, but better and with more upside) but I don’t really see why the Bucks would want this.

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Dec 4, 2011 12:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Probably because Howard wouldn't sign an extension with Milwaukee, making it a moot point.

This scenario was mentioned in one of Berger’s reports as agent chatter, and while it would have to assume that 1) Orlando likes Bogut better than Bynum 2) Milwaukee thinks Bynum is better than Bogut, it’s vaguely plausible I suppose.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Dec 4, 2011 3:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Really doe?

D Will isn’t leaving the Nets unless we have something to offer and we have nothing and no other team is going to facilitate a trade with us to give us D Will after we’ve already got Howard given our lack of good assets to give up. No lotto picks, overpaid players. Only Pau/Odom which isn’t going to work unless we trade to a team trying to contend right away and isn’t rebuilding

"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco

by Marty Mart on Dec 4, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

No chance of D Will happening via trade or FA

Especially if we lose Bynum & Odom to Howard.

We don’t have the pieces to trade (that make sense to both teams) or the cap room to sign straight up in free agency.

by neokoros on Dec 4, 2011 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

I think J Rich may be doable, Crawford and Afflalo is fool’s gold. I really like bringing in Grant Hill or Shane Battier.

by datboyeddiep on Dec 4, 2011 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

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