Brilliance or Insanity? Lakers Reportedly Donating Odom to Defending Champion Mavericks
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 12:26 AM PST
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EDIT: The Odom-to-Dallas trade is yet to be official, with Marc Stein reporting only that "The Lakers informed the league-owned Hornets and the Rockets they were pulling out of the deal, sources said, because they had reached an agreement with the Dallas Mavericks to trade Lamar Odom to the reigning champions."
EDIT EDIT: Woj says it's happened, which is good enough for me.
It was said soon after the news of the new CBA that the ensuing condensed free agent period would be one of the craziest in history; and it has most definitely failed to disappoint. Obviously, the sheer ludicrousness of David Stern (egged on by his quivering lackeys) going Imperator on the Hornets has to take the cake, and the irony of signings such as that of Tyson Chandler's 4-year $56 million contract highlighting the ludicrousness in hindsight of the lockout is both frustrating and vindicating; however now this free agent period has moved into a new level of weirdness for us Laker fans as well.
The move to pull Chris Paul, whilst garnering some debate about its short-run basketball benefits, was characteristically Laker in nature: quick, shrewd, professional, and bringing in a star player of the type fans drool over. For all the criticism thrown at Jim Buss of late, the move seemed to indicate business as usual for the Lakers. Unfortunately, Stern decided to nix the deal in a pathetic display of sheer pettiness on the part of both him and owners such as embittered Dan Gilbert (funny that he has been named as one of the most vocal protestors against the deal, considering that it is likely that if he had made such nature of a deal when he was in Demps' situation, he could have salvaged the remnants of his team).
The vetoing of the deal was an epic display of crassness, bad faith and blatant dishonesty: the Hornets had been previously told the League would stay out of their basketball workings and that they were allowed to make a deal, only for this to be reversed as soon as a workable and, according to general consensus, solid deal was formed with the Lakers as the recipients of Mr. Paul. This cancellation of the deal conveniently occurred after the ratification of the new CBA, instead of such an issue being put to negotiation as other basketball related issues were. A dictatorial utilisation of executive power in order to enforce the 'have your cake and eat it too' mentality of the ownership and commissioner's office evident throughout CBA negotiations; this action doubtless decimated the internal workings of these teams, with Lamar Odom and Chris Paul not showing at training camp and Pau Gasol also voicing some extent of displeasure. However, this was not the fault of any of the teams involved, the blame lays solely at the feet of the Commissioner.
What's happening now, however, the recently reported trade of Lamar Odom to the Dallas Mavericks for naught but a trade exception, is most definitely an unexpected reaction by Laker front office staff. Of course, this trade is not yet official, but Marc Stein is a reasonably credible journalist and considering his position as core ESPN reporter it would be unwise to not take heed of what he is saying. It's almost a 'so crazy it must be true' scenario; there's no way he'd report such a thing without being truly certain. (Edit: Woj says it's happened, which is good enough for me.)
On the Lakers' part, is it brilliance, or insanity? Obviously Odom was far from happy to return to the Lakers after hearing of the Lakers' attempts to trade him, refusing to show up to training and likely feeling betrayed, but that alone does not justify trading a Sixth Man of the Year and borderline-All Star to the defending champions for a trade exception.
ESPN LA's Brian Kamenetzky muses that
I find it impossible to believe the Lakers would make this move without having the dominoes lined up. Or at least without having purchased a package of dominoes, with a really, really good idea of how they'd like to line them up. Remember, they're handing Odom to the team eliminating them from last season's playoffs. It strengthens the Mavericks, a team that just lost Tyson Chandler and will soon lose J.J. Barea.
The only way the Lakers throw Mark Cuban a life preserver is if they believe the payoff is worth it.
and it goes without saying that there is a grander game afoot, with the stakes being the future of the Lakers. The attempt to trade Pau and Lamar for CP3 cement the previously-fermenting school of thought that Jim Buss was well and truly attempting to blow up the previous Laker dynasty in order to reload and/or rebuild for the future, something that I perhaps agree with (conditional, of course, on the right deals being made). The Lakers odds' were shrinking, not growing, with age. The Lakers need youth, both to have a future core and to give Kobe help in the present, and Chris Paul was a viable short and long term option.
Now that the Commissioner has shot that down once, and would have likely done so again, it seems the Lakers; never one to rest on their laurels, are quickly moving on. The cat's out of the bag, now, the Lakers of 2008-2011 can be no more. The question is, what is the future? The most obvious option remaining is Dwight Howard, who loves LA and has been looking for a trade. He has stated a preference for the Nets, but somehow I doubt he would feel too badly about suiting up in the Purple and Gold.
Or the Lakers could go elsewhere. This is the team that pulled Pau Gasol out of a hat, after all. The evident-in-hindsight balance of the trade notwithstanding, it certainly wasn't an expected, or even thought to be possible move to flip Kwame Brown and the rights to a then-overweight and unknown Euro big man for an established All Star Power Forward. Maybe we end up with Durant, Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, who knows? Unlikely, but not impossible.
All this notwithstanding, the point of no return has now been crossed, not just emotionally but practically, with the trade of Lamar. A bold move, a risk worthy of Jim Buss' poker veteran father, essentially giving away one of their key players to the very team that knocked us out of the Playoffs the prior year. The Lakers have gone all-in; if more moves aren't made whatever chance they had of winning the Championship this year have been traded away with Lamar. Blowing up solely for future investment isn't a likely course, not with Kobe's age. There has to be a plan in effect, one that every Lakers fan and staff member better damn well hope works.
It's said that the difference between brilliance and insanity is simply a matter of perspective, that one man's lunatic is another's genius. Me, I can't help but think that the results play a part. An insane ploy may prove to be brilliant - if it works. If not, catastrophe for the Laker franchise.
With Jerry Buss having recently been hospitalised for blood clots, it's evident whose decision this was. This is Jim Buss' moment of truth - a truly insane gamble. Within the next few days we'll know if he's as brilliant, if not more, than his father, or simply the incompetent and foolish prat many of us had labelled him as previously. And the Lakers' future hangs in the balance.
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Written very hastily.
And I’m rusty as hell, so if you pick up any mistakes please point em out.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
I take it you just found out?
"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant
Let's hope the League lets him, this time.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 12:19 AM PST up reply actions
Why wouldn't this trade be done?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=74sd8rp
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
Lose all our bigs for Dwight?
I like Jameer, but I wouldn’t pull that.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
Honestly, I think this is perfect.
Houston obviously gets exactly what they wanted and more.
Orlando gets what they wanted and more.
And so do we.
What am I missing here?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Oh yeah, no Forwards...that's what.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Dec 11, 2011 12:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah again.
What can we get for that?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Is it possible to be a NOOB without actually being a noob?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
yeah
to answer your question. we can trade for a single player with each trade exception that we have
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
So we can get a player that makes 8.9 million?
That’s got to be a lot of good PF’s?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Yeah
just have to find a team willing to part with them.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
I know.
I gave you props in the other thread.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
we can also pursue additional players via amnesty, we still can acquire players via TPE and mini-MLE, etc. we have ways to fill out the frontcourt.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
I think
Kupchak is counting on Stern to veto this odom trade!
lol
it was a joke at all this insanity…
dwight and deron wont re-sign with the nets, its way too hard to make it in the east
i say we clear space for either or both
keeping fingers crossed. money is an important commodity we have.
two tpes, one of them (sasha) has to be used fast.
And even then Stern will probably veto a Howard to Lakers trade anyways...
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Stern can't veto that one...
The league is not the de facto owners of Orlando. Hornets yes…But I guess by what we’ve seen, I wouldn’t put it past that guy.
by LizzakeShizzow on Dec 11, 2011 1:29 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Its apparently in the CBA seriously
The commissioner can veto any trade, but no one expected Stern to lose his mind and call shenanigans, I mean basketball reasons
That's not calling shenanigans
as the trade was very much NOT shenanigans
If Lamar Odom is going to the Mavs, it will be AWKWARD.
More awkward than when “Metta World Peace” joined the Lakers.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
again, to play sf, pf and center to a team that has lost butler, chandler and barea
and received vince, himself and some new york guard. mavs still in a bad position with what’s on paper and now we have their ace to howard.
if they sign vince carter they can kiss their championship window goodbye.
Every team Carter joins becomes worse.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
Awkward why?
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
That was Bynum.
Odom just got a little feisty with Dirk, is all.
There’s a very thin line between brilliance and insanity…
I look in the mirror, and I don't like what I see. So I bought a new one.
Fishmore or Morgan?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
lol, cause it kinda fits for both.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Wouldn't know
Haven’t been here in months…
I look in the mirror, and I don't like what I see. So I bought a new one.
I think Kupchak did this as protest
Stern didn’t like the fact that a contender like the Lakers would get better so Kupchak said ‘fuck you I’m makin Dallas better then’
#angryLakersfan
What is the nature of your thoughts, gentlemen, when you say "fuddle duddle" or something like that?
by RudeMood19 on Dec 11, 2011 12:22 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
lol
Czheck Productions
Beatsforyounow.com music community
I've never done anything good for the world, and I'm not about to start now-DF
Follow @Czheck
No way.. my point of view is that the better the Lakers are the better it is for the NBA in terms
of financial benefits. I think this has more to do with the other owners.
"Hate me or love me. Its one or the other; always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Jelly Bean Bryant
or FU and gilbert
im cutting our luxury tax. Fuck small market teams and ur terrible management.
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
by LakersFoEva on Dec 11, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
It seems like this is the end of any news for today. Peace.
Dear tomorrow,
Don’t you fuck with me too
- Lakers fan
by Fin Fan Forever on Dec 11, 2011 12:24 AM PST reply actions
My theory is this:
By decreasing our luxury tax bill, and thus the check to under the cap teams, this was basically a middle finger to Dan Gilbert for being a whiny little bitch.
Agree on the Gilbert hate
But since Dallas is over the cap, the amount paid out to the non-taxpaying teams is the same. Sorry, really do like this post, just have to inject reality…
Calling it a night, but I really am getting the vibe that this is what we get this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3bcsfvz
Then use our two TPE’s to get a PF and backup SG, then find a cheap back C with the mini MLE
Honestly after all of this, I think this scenario isn’t too bad. I might get flamed for this, but This isn’t to bad of a situation to be in, especially considering we’d be teaming Dwight Howard with Kobe Bryant.(could be worse, KKKKKKAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNN)
Yeah I'd hate to part with both, but we need a PG and Jameer would be damn good for us
and we’d still have our TPE’s and mini MLE so I don’t feel as bad about it as I once did
by Q.Calloway25 on Dec 11, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
jameer isn't that good.
that isn’t a championship team.
"Work before Glory"
by wickedskillz on Dec 11, 2011 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
plus, chauncey is a FA
"Work before Glory"
by wickedskillz on Dec 11, 2011 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
so dallas will now feature kidd-rodrigue-lamar-dirk-haywood
with some guard-stevenson-fernandez-carter-last year’s sf-marion-backup c
hmmm…miami will run circles around that lineup. and so will this new laker team
Yeah.
Dallas got waaaaaaayyyy older this off-season
by 82 games of pain! on Dec 11, 2011 12:26 AM PST up reply actions
They added VC but they lost Butler and Barea
So it’s the same as last year. Chandler is the only difference.
Don't you guys have a negative record of talking before doing?
I live to play the devil's advocate.
by AfterSchoolSpecial on Dec 11, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Talking about what before doing what?
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
sign billups?
how much is he worth these days?..
not possible.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
has been issuing threats to small market teams
not to say paul didn’t
someone said that only sub-cap teams can sign a waiver player.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
let's wait on who we get in the next days
we have too many sfs though. luke retiring will make the choice easier.
if he clears amnesty waivers, we can sign him for the minimum
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
You guys think if someone kills Stern
and their defense is "basketball reasons", that they will be acquitted?
by bjk1903 on Dec 11, 2011 12:25 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
depends where the trial is held....
LA? Definitely.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Dec 11, 2011 12:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well he better not show up to a Lakers game if he knows whats good for him
stupid jerk. Like med school finals weren’t enough, now I am pissed and distracted by his stupid antics.
Let's stop talking about killing Stern. Thanks.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
only give up pau and bynum if they give up Nelson too
otherwise we get butt fucked
"If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life — tell me who you’re going to pick? You’re going to look at the stats first?" - Kobe Bryant
i think to make money work they'd have to
and then we spend our 8.9 million on a power forward. anyone worth a look matching this salary?
we still have the sasha tpe, mini mle and vet min. we CAN re-arm and that’s an exciting step.
Posted on the previous thread
Here are some guys I think we could feasibly get with the exception who would fill the PF void:
Anderson Varejao: Personally hate this guy, but he fits in the exception, and the Cavs are in full rebuild mode. Would add some front-court depth.
Charlie Villanueva: Fits in the exception, clearly Detroit wants to part ways at this point. Might just amnesty him, though.
Drew Gooden: See Charlie V., pretty much.
Tyrus Thomas: The most exciting name so far, Bobcats always seem to be looking to give away players to shed salary.
Andray Blatche: Blechhh.
Michael Beasley: Sorta like Tyrus Thomas, with more baggage.
Yeah, none of the names on the list are particularly attractive
But if they were, their teams wouldn’t be willing to give them up for nothing.
I think a better question is who would Orlando want
to play with Andrew Bynum?
I am so banking on the hope that this TE player will be dealt with Bynum for Howard.
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
by Mister Larry on Dec 11, 2011 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
It's possible
But if that were the case, why pull out of the CP3 trade? We would have come out of that with the same exception. I think the reason Mitch pulled out is he thinks he needs both Gasol and Bynum to land Howard. Hope I’m wrong though.
Maybe
But by all accounts Lakers have always put Howard over Paul on their priority list. If Mitch thought he needed Gasol and Bynum, why offer Gasol and Odom for CP3 in the first place?
I think Mitch realized after the second veto that getting CP3 was impossible without giving up far too much. He also probably knew the Magic wanted Bynum and another piece (not Odom) and traded for the exception.
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
by Mister Larry on Dec 11, 2011 12:44 AM PST up reply actions
Sigh. Reading about how LO felt down until the evil Mark Cuban called and welcomed him stings.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
@ba_turner
Lamar odom told friends he was unhappy with how things went with Lakers even though he considered them family.
Lamar Odom felt better about trade to dallas after owner called him Saturday and welcomed him to Mavericks, a friend said.
Make that Dallas owner Mark Cuban that called Lamar Odom.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
by WaveOcean on Dec 11, 2011 12:34 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Blech
I hate Japanese developers, especially jRPG’s. Fallout, Arcanum, Planescape, New Vegas, KotoR 2, neverwinter nights 2 Mask of the Betrayer, Wasteland… Stick with the western developers… actually, in todays age, just stick with Obsidian and Chris Avellone.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 6:17 AM PST up reply actions
I'd disagree. I think you're approaching JRPGs from the wrong angle.
Despite their names, JRPGs aren’t actual RPGs (since a player has no choice in how the story plays out); rather, JRPGs are resource management games, which is probably why it appeals to a different audience than players who love proper RPGs.
That said, Obsidian’s kind of meh; they might have great ideas but their execution is lacking (Alpha Protocol), or they just completely destroy what a game was about previously (Dungeon Siege III). I mean, they were good with New Vegas, NWN2 and KOTOR2, but they’ve had their share of misses too.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Agree
I cant stand developers like Bethesda anymore who have turned a decent series (even back to morrowind which i liked a lot with its moderate amount of Choices and Consequences,) into a modern jRPG with tons of exploration and pointless loot. Now they do the environment, and world well, and I think Skyrim is a HUGE step up from Oblivion, but still not on Morrowinds level.
With regards to Obsidian, i agree to a point also, AP had so much promise, I think they bit off more than they could chew. For a game with that level of detail they needed a huge huge budget. If they could have attached a publisher to write them a blank check, the game could have been great. Unfortunately, it wouldnt have sold all that well due to it being too complex for the modern console RPG audience. DSIII I didnt play but I havent heard good things.
I rally believe New Vegas is a massive achievement for modern RPGs, the writing is better than anything one will get in todays day and age, with gray morality, choices between a dousche and a turd sandwich, comedy, and I love the western cowboy aspect. I could rave about NV for days with my only gripe being combat really, as Gamebryo is a pretty weak engine when it comes to combat in general.
Kudos, You definitely described my personal preference perfectly. That is my main problem with japanese RPG’s, is the PC’s lack of impact on the game world which is nil. It is nearly mandatory for a game to have choices and consequences that affect the game world, along with lots of skills that aren’t totally worthless, allowing for multiple builds that change each playthrough. Now, some in New Vegas were rarely used (Survival, Barter, Medicine0 but there were still a few instances where it could change the aspect of a quest or conversation, and the multiple ways of solving many quests (diplomatically, combat, bribery, and sometimes in a conniving seedy manner) really shows the amount of effort they put into the game. The point you bring up makes me wonder why i cant stand that aspect of jRPG’s like FF and zelda.
One japanese developer I do love is Kojima. Although Guns of the Patriots was in no way an RPG, I did like the open-endedness of some of the battle areas, along with being able to help the PMC’s or local militias. And despite the pure wackinesss of the story since MGS2 (the Metal Gear Solid story was perfect I felt and made me really care about some characters like Sniper WOlf, while being intrigued by other like Psycho Mantis), Guns of the Patriots had a fantastic story, and some incredible cinematic events. Alright, sorry for the wall of text, but i’m not even a hardcore gamer, just a few select games I really love, and love to converse with people about. Can you give me any suggestions on jRPGs that may appeal to my tastes?
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
Essentially
I’m not an artsy guy at all. My girl is in visual design and loves modern art, fashion, and all this hipster Williamsburg Music/Art scene. Me, I like sports, but I find interactive art to be the most difficult kind. I’m not a movie buff, because every movie I see is all special effects now, and I can’t stand CGI. This is why modern TV (The Wire, Rome, Arrested Development, hell even Scrubs) I believe blows feature films outta the water. They have either 22 minutes to get your attention, and dont have the benefit of getting your 8.50 up front, or they are like the Wire and have to build multiple 14 hour long story arcs. This is done incredibly well, and the in the end the characters are much more fleshed out and “real.” Video Games are somewhat similar, they are a long experience, that allows for a truly unique dynamic, the actual building of a character within the story. This feature is what attracts me to well written and well executed video games, while pushing me away from the Transformers and Avatar’s of the world. Hell, bring back Stop-motion and i’d be going to a ton more movies. Look at the difference in mood between the Medusa scene in the 2 Clash of the Titans. The slow methodical movements in the first one were incredibly creepy, and almost makes me feel like im listening to Alice in Chains, whereas the new one with all the CGI makes me feel like im listening to a fast blink 182 song.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
Man, you really got into it. I'm not really going to address every point, but...
I’m a game designer and writer, so I tend to look at games from a design aspect. I’m probably in the minority that thinks that, while shiny (visually appealing), Skyrim is really overrated (and dumbed down) in terms of gameplay, which to me is a major no-no.
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes is on my Top 10 list simply because combines the simplicity of the original MGS’s story with the improved gameplay of MGS2.
I can’t recommend any JRPGs that would suit your tastes, simply because JRPGs are not about choice; they’re about going along for the experience. This is how I like to describe the difference between JRPGs and WRPGs: in JRPGs, the player is a side character who is just experiencing the main character’s story, whereas in WRPGs, the player is the main character, and the story is about them. This is one of the major differences in how such games work, and I believe it’s a matter of cultural differences.
I mean, it’d be nice if there were JRPGs that had a WRPG approach to storytelling, but it just doesn’t happen because WRPG designers don’t really like most of the JRPG game elements, and most JRPG designers don’t have the luxury of designing to a Western audience.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Dude
Todd Howard absolutely sucks. Like I said, I do enjoy the environments of Skyrim, but it is essentially a hiking simulator with a massive MASSIVE map, and a billion quests that say go here, kill this, get that, sell a buncha bullshit you pick up. As bad as Fallout 3 was, how could they not see the possibilities with the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system? Especially after Obsidian executed it so well in New Vegas. To eliminate yet MORE skills, and upon a level up all you upgrade is 1 of 3 pools is just… lazy.
Mind if i inquire about some games youve worked on? And Twin Snakes was on Gamecube right? Damn I wish that would come out for PC or 360.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
I’m currently working on a number of independent games that tend to start and stop because of the difficulty in finding programmers to work with. The reality is, I’m a pure designer, so I come up with the ideas of how something works or plays, and I need programmers to produce.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Did we get the trade exception to
1. get rid of a disgruntled Odom and find a suitable, long-term replacement
2. get the last piece that orlando wants in a D12 to lakers deal
or something entirely different?
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
"Basketball reasons"
Is what I am telling the medical school director after I fail these finals due to Stern being a douchebag.
by bjk1903 on Dec 11, 2011 12:30 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm about to go into nursing school so I know what you mean! =(
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
In the future when my wife asks me why I went to the strip club I'll say "Basketball reasons"...
It works for just about anything =P
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
You could go the Beavis and Butthead route
in a recent episode with the Positive Acting Teens who state that, “Evolution is too complex, and if something is too complex you shouldn’t have to learn it.” I’m thinking Med School applies ehre
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 6:19 AM PST up reply actions
I'm guessing everyone already knows this by now
I just read that the deal for Chris Paul is off…again…and that the Lakers have pulled out of the talks.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
yea
that’s why we’re here now
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
Don't compare getting lucky at a once in a lifetime chance with Kobe as a pass for Mitch to make stupid moves...
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:36 AM PST up reply actions
Oh... my bad sorry
Don’t like it when Mitch gets a free pass just because Jerry West was lucky w/ Kobe…
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
I'm like a sexy bachelor...
I don’t get locked down to any one relationship =P
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:45 AM PST up reply actions
Luke Walton anyone?
How about Vlad Rad?
How about Smush Parker as a starter?
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:37 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, guys did you hear the Heat signed Lebron and Bosh?
by TooMuch2Gain on Dec 11, 2011 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not a Laker fan.
I don’t keep up with this stuff as well as most people here.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
Some people had plans Saturday night.
They might have not been able to keep up so quit giving him a hard time.
Bamboozled.
Stern can take his league and shove it
I will not be satisfied until he is gone. GODDDDAMN IM PISSED. Does Stern reside anywhere near the tristate(NY, NJ, Connecticut) area?
i think he knows...
you’ll still watch, entranced.
been browsing at pfs we could use with tpe
scola seems best choice so effectively we would be:
nelson/morris/fisher
kobe/barnes/goudelocke
mwp/kapono/ebanks/walton
scola/turkey/caracter
d12/backup c
not bad. sure we could have used another pillar for the future but dwight IS that pillar.
now to improve our perimeter D, i’d move mwp/barnes or what not for iggy. yup can’t think of any. philly wants turner to have more minutes. we can give them picks from dallas too.
GO LAKERS! HUZZAH!
interesting that sasha's tpe can actually get us love????!!!
what if we threw lamar’s tpe just to tempt kahn? ooohlalala!
Bulls are gonna have Rip Hamillton to fill up their last hole on their roster as well (SG)...
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 12:42 AM PST up reply actions
not too high on rip
but with drose feeding him, could be mightily effective with he has left
Smart move by the Lakers...
Now I think it’ll be harder for the league to trade Paul and I bet you, if they do the deal won’t be as good as the original vetoed trade. I feel bad because Paul loses here, unless he deoesn’t sign a new contract with the Hornets or the team who trades for him and becomes a free agent and comes to L.A. This move has “Dwight Howard trade” written all over it.
Who lands Gasol?
He’s not your typical center and he’s not young anymore I can’t imagine what Orlando/Dallas would need with him.
i think we keep him
big 3 with kb24, d12 & pau
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
by LakersFoEva on Dec 11, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Ben R already threw this around on twitter
But what if we acquired David West via TPE/S&T and then finish it off with this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=73ers6r
We’d end up with:
PG: Nelson/Fish
SG: Kobe/Goudelock/FA
SF: Hedo/MWP/Barnes <—- we’d probably have to trade/amnesty one of these guys
PF: West/FA
C: Howard/FA
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
not bad. forgot about west. celtics will be pissed.
i say amnesty turk
don’t forget we still have morris, kapono, ebanks, caracter and walton.
what a puzzle to sort out.
This is one benefit of being the Cavs. It’s really hard to mess up any kind of move. The only direction to go is up.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
We can't amnesty Turk. Can only do so to the players under contract during previous CBA.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
And steal one from the Celtics?
Probably the best alternative yet.
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
by Mister Larry on Dec 11, 2011 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
hedo could be our backup pf.
small for that position, but he can do it.
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
by LakersFoEva on Dec 11, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
by tomorrow our headline should be: the empire strikes back
too much drama, humiliation and stuff.
on the flipside, the league must be gnashing teeth to see what we can whip up with what we have
i do believe mitch is that good.
Unless he's retiring, no one wants him.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
I really hate losing LO especially to Dallas....
….but LO needs to realize it as business… Pau showed up to Practice… TWICE!…… I hope Mitch has a plan that just blows all our minds, simultaneously… too dirty???
anyway…. I feel so discouraged that this whole debacle cost us Odom… Hopefully tomorrow is filled with exciting news for us Lakers fans…
"Where Yo Curleh Mustache at!?"
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." -Gil Meriken
a rather anticlimatic departure for him, I say
it doesn’t even get its own headline on ESPN.com
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
I can't wrap my head around this.
If Odom was disgruntled, then tell him to stay home until the Lakers work out the Bynum/Odom for Howard/Turkoglu trade that we’ve talked about since forever. Obviously, there’s a lot of flexibility right now with the $8.9 million TPE, but Mitch either has a master plan or threw Odom away as a salary dump to get rid of a disgruntled employee. Per the title of this article, this is either genius or utter madness.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
by Ben R on Dec 11, 2011 12:53 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
And man, it really doesn't feel good saying that these days.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
oh, it's not that
It’s that whenever the Cavs are mentioned, I think the first thing people think about is Dan Gilbert.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
How do you be a Cavs fan?
Knowing that such a whiny bitch Dan Gilbert is the owner?
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:02 AM PST up reply actions
One of the main reasons people don't like the Clippers is because Donald Sterling is a money grubbing cheap ass
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:03 AM PST up reply actions
I feel sorry for the Clippers
They’ve had so many opportunities to be a legit franchise. And he has ruined nearly every single one of them.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
Me too =(
Really hope the Griffin show takes flight the same way OKC has the last few years…
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:05 AM PST up reply actions
The Caron Butler deal
is the latest in such a long line of laughable deals. Now Jordan is signing in Golden State… They could have abstained from adding anybody this year, and gone into next year with Gordon as an potential FA for S&T, with Howard, Paul, and WIlliams all as FA’s. Griffin still under his rookie deal for another season, and they could have afforded 2 of those 3. Outright signing on one, or both, then a sign and trade with Gordon to possibly acquire a PG. I only mention them inevitably losing Gordon in this Griffin/Howard/Paul+Williams scenario because they would have to relinquish his bird rights to get the other 2. but, hell, Griffen with those 2 and that team would be downright disgusting.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 6:27 AM PST up reply actions
I suggest not saying it at all
#ItsOld
Mango Body Butter
Twitter: @bluefalcon916
by bluexfalcon on Dec 11, 2011 2:04 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
You know what the worst part about this is?
If Stern had just told the teams beforehand they weren’t allowed to trade Chris Paul, instead of vetoing not one, but TWO deals at the last possible moment, Odom probably wouldn’t be so disgruntled and emotionally damaged, and we probably wouldn’t have had to trade him. Stern being a dick cost us not only Chris Paul, but then also the 7 foot, reigning 6th man of the year (and all around great person) who by the way had an awesome contract, with NOTHING to show for it.
Fuck. You. David. Stern.
those 4 words represent all I’ve learned about the NBA since July.
that's the hardest thing to understand
how was this trade allowed to gain so much traction in the first place.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
Easy, the CBA wasn't ratified until right before Stern vetoed the trade.
The general consensus so far seems to be that Stern’s motive in all this was simply a petty ‘fuck you’ to the players who wish to be able to choose where they play, you think the Union would have stood for that? Hunter might have still tried signing the CBA, but the star players who were pushing for a court battle may not have rejoined the Union and kept pushing for decertification instead.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 1:01 AM PST up reply actions
I'm kind of starting to wish somebody would just sue somebody already.
That would be incredibly satisfying to me.
Yeah, it’s egregious to let it go that far then kill it. Ugh.
by puresilence on Dec 11, 2011 12:59 AM PST up reply actions
either way
he was going to get over it sooner or later, so this shouldn’t have really been a factor at all.
I'm so tired of all of this
it’s not even compelling anymore. I was interested in the incredible nature of getting CP3 and then mildly intrigued at the logical next step of trying to get Dwight. but this Stern intervention has made deals take so long to get done and have caused such uproar, that it’s more or less like a fruitless endeavor. I have every belief Mitch will get something done. However, keeping up with this stuff is literally driving me crazy
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
I feel the same way man
Although I had a break from it just now…coming back to this news is just ridiculous.
Bamboozled.
I took a break from it earlier
but like the intrigue and the constant thoughts about it are just maddening. I just want basketball and not the college variety.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
Ya I hate because it's to the point where I don't know what to think about it.
This has all just turned into something ridiculous and I don’t like it one bit. I just want it to all be done with. And that’s not the kind of feeling I was expecting or wanting out of all of this.
Bamboozled.
The worst part is that no matter what happens and what players we get,
we will have a sour taste in our mouths cause of Stern
my speculation
We send Pau to Houston and Bynum and some picks to Orlando. Houston sends Dragic, Williams, Thabeet, Flynn, and a couple of picks to Orlando. The Lakers pick up Howard, Turkoglu, and Nelson. A second trade with the Rockets, contingent on the first one being made, involves Scola coming to LA for Odom’s trade exception and Ebanks or something.
End result:
Howard/Scola/Turk/Kobe/Nelson
I think Mitch is just gearing up to completely outbid NJ.
+1
My preference at the moment is to go for a Pau/Bynum for D12/Nelson/Turk swap and sign David West right under BOS' nose. But this is another option...
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=dy6xzzo
Add Baron or Billups via amnesty afterwards.
PG: (Baron or Billups)/Fisher/Dragic
SG: Kobe/Dragic
SF: Turk/MWP/Barnes
PF: West/Turk/FA
C: Howard/FA
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
What are they doing? Giving a borderline all-star to a rival, really. Now I hear Howard wants to go to NJ. So Dallas lose key pieces like Chandler and JJ and then with help them out and weaken our bench. OKC would have been the toughest team but no, lets give them (Dallas) a great rebounder and versatile player for air.
Okay, so this is the only positive way I can see this going down.
We trade Bynum/Gasol for Nelson/Turkoglu/Howard and maybe take back Duhon with the Vujacic TPE, and then get a starting PF with the Odom TPE. Lakers better be on the phone with David West’s agent telling him he can start in L.A. alongside Dwight Howard instead of being Garnett’s backup in Boston.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
id save sasha's tpe for someone who can make an impact from the bench
we did lose our 6th man
The whole point is to give Orlando more salary relief. We'd do so by taking back Duhon.
Might give him a buyout right afterwards since we don’t want or need him, but that would be the objective.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
makes me smirk, but am not mitch
and i don’t know how much otis is using leverage he had little of last week.
It's not a necessary component of that deal, but it's definitely an option.
Between the amnesty of Arenas and the $7 million they’d save in the trade if we take back Duhon, that’s a lot of saved cash. Actually puts Orlando $8 million below the cap.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Turkoglu off the bench for impact?
Artest still starting for defensive purposes?
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:08 AM PST up reply actions
Brown would figure that out. Turk has an obscene salary, but he's a useful player for us.
Can handle the ball, run the offense, operate the P&R, and would be the best shooter on the team besides Kapono or maybe Goudelock.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
We got a trade exception worth about $5.5 million when we traded Sasha to the Nets for basically nothing.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Mitch HAS to have something on the table for that TPE
otherwise why trade Odom? It doesn’t affect Bynum/Gasol for Nelson/Turkoglu/Howard at all. Like you said, we could take on Duhon with Sasha TPE, but the Odom TPE is useless.
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
by Mister Larry on Dec 11, 2011 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't want to.
But no longer see much choice.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 1:11 AM PST up reply actions
If it comes down to it, probably.
We’re basically committed at this point. That said, they’re a freaking playoff team with just Bynum and Gasol, so this is the only way it becomes somewhat equitable.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
The Odom TPE would cover the deal West has planned with Boston
But it makes too much sense, so probably won’t happen.
BasketballReasons
if we are getting turk
then why not amnesty artest! so much money…
Because the harsher luxury tax doesn't come in for two years and MWP will be a useful player in the meantime.
No point in getting rid of him right now when he still has some utility.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
madness + late hours + possibly alcohol = anybody is anything they wanna be
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
Lots of the third item.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
I'm really surprised they don't give me the million $ gm job of the Lakers...
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:10 AM PST up reply actions
;)
It’s hilarious to me too how fans always go over a trade scenario between two teams but NEVER account for a 3 team trade.
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:13 AM PST up reply actions
David West has signed already and the market ain’t full of gems. The Lakers are trying to save money.
It isn't official yet. And we have to find some way to fill the gaping hole at PF we would have.
It’s one thing to deal with that hole when we have both Paul and Howard. It’s another when it’s just Howard here.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Be honest
Does this move make any sense unless L.A. is pushing hard for Howard? I mean, shit they pulled out of the Paul trade only hours after Howard officially asked the Magic to trade him.
Woj
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_pacers_also_interested_in_West_121011
Realgm’s summary of Woj’s article:
The Pacers have positioned themselves to sign David West should negotiations between the Celtics and Hornets on a sign-and-trade fall apart on Sunday, according to sources.
The Celtics can offer the first three years in the $24 million to $25 million range, but the fourth year would likely not be fully guaranteed.
Several sources believed there would be a resolution Sunday.
Indiana has been in talks with West on a two-year deal that would pay him a higher annual salary.
West would prefer to sign with Boston, which would give him the opportunity to start alongside Kevin Garnett.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
whoops. this was supposed to be in direct response to westokobe's comment right above this one.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
Starting alongside KG... wow he isn't too bright =/
Who plays C? Ever heard of that position in the game of basketball David West?
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:15 AM PST up reply actions
To start alongside Garnett? They're going to do that? ROFL.
Still, if he was willing to take less money to go to Boston in order to be on a contender, I can’t imagine he wouldn’t be amenable to a bigger role on a contender here.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
If Mitch really were targeting West with that TPE
he would have received some sort of agreement beforehand right? He wouldn’t have blindly traded Odom and prayed West would come to him.
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
by Mister Larry on Dec 11, 2011 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
David West must of simply got some girl pregnant in the Boston area...
Only way to explain it.
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:20 AM PST up reply actions
Turk is nothing but a big fat turkey by now...
Mailed it in the day he got his Toronto contract
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
By the way, if you want some amusment right now.
Go check out Dex’s Twitter.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
I never understood scrooge mcduck growing up watching the show...
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:21 AM PST up reply actions
Like he dives head first about 30 feet into a collection of metal coins...
Dunno about you but that seems like it would HURT! =(
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:22 AM PST up reply actions
When your that rich you can do whatever you want
But Scrooge still makes more sense than basketball reasons
by neokoros on Dec 11, 2011 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I always pictured
that the gold coins were actually just the Gold-foil chocolate coins that you buy at Xmas time….and I wanted to dive into that too, probably wouldn’t hurt as bad that way.
Alright. It's getting late, I'm growing restless, and I have a BBC documentary on North Korea I've gotta finish watching.
Good night gentlemen. I hope we all wake up to a better world tomorrow!
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
Another option with the Odom TPE is to try for Paul Millsap.
Utah currently has a glut in their frontcourt after drafting Enes Kanter, getting Derrick Favors in the Williams trade last year, and having Mehmet Okur come back from injury, so maybe they’re amenable to getting say Ebanks or a first back in return for the salary relief.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Great find Ben R, very hard to find a good PF on a team needing to get rid of them AND having a salary that matches...
You made it look easy though =)
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:27 AM PST up reply actions
crossed him awhile ago and forgot about kanter.
not sure they might amnesty okur and make millsap the main post man.
but if they bite, maybe looking for a potent guard for that tpe, i say do it.
howard and millsap. has a ring to it
I mentioned this too in an earlier post
However, you’d think that the LO trade and then a Millsap trade would occur right after the other in a bang-bang move if Mitch had a handshake agreement with the Jazz. He wouldn’t have blindly traded LO for the mere possibility of Millsap.
Second, and I think TheWerg posted this, Millsap is a very good player with an extremely fair contract. Even with all those forwards, the Jazz could do much better than basically giving away Millsap for a couple draft picks or whomever the Lakers have to offer.
I hope I’m wrong, though, because Millsap is by far the best player who fits the TPE on a rebuilding team.
"They should go into a box and one--put the box on Kobe and the one on everyone else" - Jeff Van Gundy
by Mister Larry on Dec 11, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Any where would have been better then Dallas, now you got a highly motivated ex-player on a rival. Maybe they should give some draft picks to OKC next.
You mean the worthless pick the Lakers picked up from Dallas?
I dunno if OKC would even want it, it smells like 2 weeks old gym socks
Well, we'd offer one of our own picks probably.
Unless both teams think that Dallas is going to precipitously decline after they strike out in 2012 free agency.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Dallas said goodbye to their championship hopes when they let Chandler leave.
They’re gambling on being a player for a marquee free agent in 2012.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Sometimes I feel Chandler gets waaaaay too much respect =(
by ap3604 on Dec 11, 2011 1:37 AM PST up reply actions
Dude is an awesome defensive player.
He paved the way for their run. Was EVERYWHERE on the floor in the Finals — checked penetrating wings going to the rim, stayed with perimeter guys on the P&R, offered weakside shot blocking, rebounded well, and played good post defense. Most important player after Dirk.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Naw
Dallas said goodbye to their championship hopes when they went after Vince Carter.
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
I think Cuban drank too much in his victory celebration after the championship
Its the only explanation
Hope it's a 3-way trade
If there is a Simulaneous Trade with Orlando, the TPE created can be worth up to 125% x 8.9 mil = 11.12 mil. Only need to beat the Nets offer of Lopez and draft picks. So Odom to DAL for Picks and 11.12 mil TPE. Then Howard and Turk for Bynum and Picks. That beats the Nets offer.
Nelson probably won't be part of a Pau/Bynum for D12/Turk trade. Dollar for Dollar.
Even if Howard and Turk excercised their player options to increase $ to get the deal done, it would still look like this.
Gasol $57mil and Bynum $15,157,667 =$72,157,667
D12 $37,146,600 & Turk $34,200,000 =$71,346,600
Orlando would owe us only $811,067
and Nelson is owed $15,194,443. So we would need to come up with an additional $14mil.
Without player options Orlando would be attempting to send D12 and Turk =$39,885,400 for 2 lakers that cost $72 million Dollars, thus owing us $30 million Dollars. So I don’t see Nelson included. However, our TPE should be used on Billups!
Orlando will want more than just Bynum and some picks, they’ll try to reem us!
Yearly and total.
Remember Gasol is owed 3yrs at around 19mil per.
Bynum is only owed for one year at $15mil
That’s Dan Gilbert was screaming about us cutting 40$ mil of the cap.
Hornets Vs. Magic
The only reason Gilbert had a gripe was because the league owns NO. And really, the part about the Lakers cutting salary being harmful to the league because they were taking money away from the “under the cap teams” was easily his most “dumbass” statement of the entire letter. And that is saying alot because it was filled with dumbass statements.
The Magic are not in the same boat as NO. They can make a trade that is beneficial to them without having to look over their shoulders for David Stern’s evil leer. For salary cap purposes, its year by year. If they can fit the incoming salaries into the outgoing salaries slots then the trade is valid. Next years salaries would be looked at next year.
Two more options.
We take back Varejao, who is a fantastic defensive player. Would be an incredible defensive frontcourt between Howard and him, and he has a burgeoning midrange game he can use. Brown would like it also because of the familiarity. We also could clear Minny’s frontcourt glut by getting Beasley, although I like that a hell of a lot less.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
We can't trade Pau for what he's owed for only one year.
He’s owed for 3 years. He’s gauranteed to get the whole amount.
Dude, trades don't work that way.
To make the salaries match, you only consider the yearly salaries in the relevant year you’re making the trade. Obviously, teams have to consider the long-term implications of the contracts they’re taking on, but it’s irrelevant insofar as actually being able to make the trade.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Billups may be our best bet at PG cause D. Gilbert won't Amnesty BD for us to get.
He’ll probably make sure we Never get Baron.
Maybe. But we want to add youth to our roster.
At this point in his career, Billups is a big shot guy. He’s still gonna get burned by the younger faster pgs.
by keithsweatshirt on Dec 11, 2011 2:04 AM PST up reply actions
This trade makes as much sense as anything I have seen today
Seriously
by neokoros on Dec 11, 2011 2:01 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Note the subject of his comment..
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 2:03 AM PST up reply actions
I understand it was a joke.
And with the way this day’s been, it seems nothing is out of the realm of possibility.
by keithsweatshirt on Dec 11, 2011 2:05 AM PST up reply actions
He's being sarcastic, dude. Chill.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
I fought the urge to use all caps.
So, in a sense…I chilled?
by keithsweatshirt on Dec 11, 2011 2:06 AM PST up reply actions
Its all good bro
- Stern vetoing the trade twice
- Odom going for less than nothing (at least get a 1st round draft pick for the upcoming loaded draft)
- The rest of the circus
The trade makes as much sense as the other stuff we witnessed today. It actually took some brain power and a few tries to come up with such a bad trade, I dunno how some GM’s make it look so easy.
KOBE WOULD FOLLOW IN MJ'S FOOTSTEPS.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Lol I didn't even notice that
At first I tried to give Kobe away for peanuts to OKC, then Boston, then some other contenders, but the contenders in general don’t have enough overblown contracts for horrible players that add up to Kobe’s salary. Interesting how the successful teams manage their salaries so much better.
Another option: S&T with Utah for Andre Kirilenko, who has always been better as a four.
In short: lots of options available to fill the PF hole. If we end up with Nelson in addition to Howard in a Bynum/Gasol trade and fill the hole with any of West, Millsap, Varejao, or AK47, I can live with this. Could arguably call it an upgrade.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Didn't AK sign in Russia for 3 years without an opt-out?
Or does he have an opt-out clause?
I feel like we need a 4 who can hit from midrange next to Dwight. But yeah, things are far from ideal right now.
What's that?
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 2:28 AM PST up reply actions
reasons?
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
upgrade? We beat Howard with Bynum, Gasol and Odom in 09. Drew and Pau are better then just Howard and Nelson had really one good year.
Except this current iteration of Howard is better than the one from two years ago.
And obviously, he’s the central building block for the future, so that’s critical, especially since any team with him on it is basically a top ten defense by default. Anyways, if we pick up Nelson, get a serviceable four (West, Millsap, Kirilenko, Varejao) with the Odom TPE, and have Turk on the bench, it’s an upgrade on what we have right now. Nelson is an obvious improvement on what we have at point guard, Howard upgrades on Bynum, and while losing Pau and Odom hurts, getting one of the aforementioned PFs and some competent backups will be fine for our purposes.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
if we seriously are just dumping salary
then that statue of Mitch needs to be put on hold lol
Everytime I log onto SSR
I get confused. What is happening? Au revoir Lamar, I wish you well…
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
lebron should just lock himself away and not talk for the rest of forever-LA32
why do we keep talking about trading bynum AND gasol?
The Lakers simply have to beat the Nets’ offer. Bynum and Gasol beats Lopez plus filler by a mile – offer Bynum and whoever else except for Kobe and Gasol. Surround that big 3 with whatever afterwards. (an amnestied Billups or B. Davis), etc. I don’t think Dwight Howard + filler replaces Bynum, Gasol, and Odom. Or why not get Millsap with the TPE and Ebanks, then offer Bynum and Millsap for Howard and Turkoglu? That’s a great frontline for the Magic, and one that is younger than Bynum and Odom. Maybe that’s Mitch’s plan? The Magic didn’t want Odom’s contract, however much of a bargain that it was?
it's what orlando apparently wants and they might be baiting our desperation on this
now that you’ve mentioned it, why don’t we keep millsap and pair him with dwight. turk and nelson would also have to be included in the deal.
and subsequent moves would be to amnesty mwp/blake or trade one or both for someone to back kobe up (we also have sasha tpe to boot)
just let walton retire please
we pick up an amnestied pg via mini-mle hoping they still think we can win (billups cough)
we pick backup big
we need to give our rooks some burn too
billups/morris/fisher
kobe/tpe/goudelock
mwp/barnes/kapono/ebanks
millsap/turk/caracter
howard/backup C
that’s a tough frontline with a lot of shooters off the bench to augment.
i like your lineup, but...
replace millsap with gasol, haha.
Yeah...
I think I’m just gonna sit this season out. Sit out watching it, I mean. Wake me up when Kobe runs the offense, Fisher is gone, Artest learns to move his feet, and Bynum is living up to his potential (or is traded for Howard).
See the thing is… what’s to stop Stern from blocking a Howard trade too? Sure, he might let him go to NJ, but to LAL? I just don’t see it happening.
And this Odom business. Well, this is a little confusing. Odom had to go, that’s for sure, and it gives LAL a little flexibility. It doesn’t matter that he’s traded to Dallas either – they’re probably in a worse position this season than the Lakers. I dunno… it just seems weird.
Stern can't block this trade.
Well, he technically can as the commissioner, but he has no standing to do so. The only reason the Paul trade didn’t go through is because the league owns the Hornets and Stern is technically an owner, so he exercised his rights as such (or something like that, ignore the question of the legality). Orlando has its own owner and can act on its own. There’s no grounds for the league to block the trade.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
See
I’m confused by it, because Stern doesn’t really have the right to do so with the Hornets, despite technically being one of the owners or something. There were no grounds to block the trade in the first place, so what’s to stop him from doing it again? Maybe I’m completely off base here, though.
Still not optimistic the Lakers will get Howard. And even if they, they’ll still be operating with the worst point guard in the league. Just gotta face it – the season is screwed, and I look forward to 2012-2013.
The rationale is that he had the right as the technical owner of the Hornets.
Owners have the right to pretty much do whatever the hell they want with their teams, including nixing trades. He has absolutely no standing whatsoever to do that with a Dwight trade.
As for your last point, sure, sit out. Says volumes about where you are as a fan.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Of course
I’m not really gonna sit it out. I might not spring for a League Pass this year, but it’s just incredibly hard for me to be excited (to say the least) about anything the Lakers are doing right now. The kind of performance we saw against the Mavs, that’s what drives fans away. Replacing perhaps the greatest coach of all time with that dimwit Mike Brown. Angering Odom and then trading him for… a trade extension. To the defending champs, no less. Giving a player like Derek Fisher quality minutes, much less the starting PG position. Alienating your second best player in Gasol.
But it’s not really about the Lakers, but more about the state of the NBA right now. With this shortened, btu very loaded, schedule, it’s just gonna be an ugly season for everyone, especially older teams like the Lakers.
If the Lakers' performance against the Mavs is what drives fans away, they weren't gonna watch this season anyway.
And what’s this about “angering Odom”? This team isn’t run to make sure his feelings, or anyone’s feelings, don’t get hurt. And Gasol is handling things just fine, even though he’s not happy.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
I like what ya did,,,
My weekend would have definately been more eventful if this trade had been explored.
Well, if Paul doesn't get traded out of NO for the rest of the year.
He should sign with the Lakers for the mini MLE in the offseason and then sue Stern for the remaining $91 million he could have got for signing an extension with us.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
LOL
Idk what’s going to happen with Paul – apparently after the new Tyson Chandler deal NY is effectively out of the running for him, and the only two teams he said he was willing to extend with were the Lakers and Knicks.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 4:40 AM PST up reply actions
Stern's seriously kidding himself with the 'basketball reasons' crap.
Paul’s got no trade leverage now so it’ll be difficult to pull value for him; meanwhile he’s burned too many bridges to have a chance of returning after his contract’s up.
"SCORES 81 POINTS AND AVERAGE 35 A GAME
...Media chooses ball distributor as mvp
TAKES A HIT IN POINTS/STATS TO HELP TEAM WIN 2 STRAIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
...Media gives mvp to ball-dominant guard" - theshmoes, on Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Dec 11, 2011 4:41 AM PST up reply actions
Stern got his payback for Paul's involvement on the players union
Little things used to mean so much to her- I used to think they were kind of trivial. Believe me, nothing is trivial.
All we needed was a point guard and all this crap happened
We could have gone out and picked up a 15 pts, 8 assists guy who can defend and none of the rest of this drama would have been necessary.
We’d have said PG, Kobe, MWP, Gasol and Bynum; with Odom and Fisher leading the second unit.
Instead, we lose the league’s toughest matchup to Dallas; and now we’re likely preparing to send Gasol and/or Bynum packing to the Magic and whoever else in an effort to get Howard.
Shame on us if we wind up with Howard as the only decent big, no legit PF, and still don’t get the PG.
Former LakersForDeuce: "The 2010 champs made me up the ante and change my name!"
I agree... I think the Lakers have something big already lined up.
One of the more interesting results of the original Chris Paul trade that was subsequently rejected by Stern was that the Lakers came away with a trade exception of $8.9M. Now that they have traded Lamar away for a similar trade exception it looks like they need that exception to help execute the second part of their plan to restructure the team.
But here is what confuses me. The $8.9M trade exception from Odom is not large enough to be used on Hedo Turkoglu (and despite discussion on this board, you can’t add Sasha’s exception or another player to it to make it work). One answer is that the Lakers would use the TE to bring in Jameer Nelson. The only problem with this is that had the Chris Paul trade succeeded, there would have been no need for Nelson so clearly the trade exception was not intended for him (or any other PG). Additionally, if the Magic are truely asking for Bynum and Gasol, then the salaries would allow the Lakers to take back Howard, Turkoglu, and Nelson without the use of the trade exception. So what is the point of the trade exception?
by Actuarially Sound on Dec 11, 2011 6:16 AM PST reply actions
To get PF, maybe? I mean, if the Lakers are losing Gasol & Bynum
Then they’d need new blood at the 4 slot anyways.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Here is the confusing thing...
If they were intent on pursuing Howard all along then they must have felt they could get a deal done with Bynum + filler because Gasol and Odom would have both been traded away for Chris Paul. Now they would still have Gasol if they did the same trade they intended to do initially so they wouldn’t need a PF.
by Actuarially Sound on Dec 11, 2011 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
To get a PF to replace Odom.
Since it became clear that he wasn’t going to be happy staying. I disagree with that rationale and think that you just tell him to stay away from the team until you manage to package him away somewhere, but it’s what we have right now. As I noted above, the Odom TPE is big enough that we can look at West, Millsap, Kirilenko, Varejao, or a number of lesser options, so there’s opportunity there. It’s stupid since we could have just kept Odom and did the Bynum/Odom for Dwight/Turk deal that has been predicted since forever and still had Pau, but if we can get Nelson back and a serviceable four, then I’d be willing to call it an upgrade.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Wow
I go to bed for a few hours and miss everything! Well, I got the text message saying they’d pulled out of the CP3 talks, but I was exhausted and sort of drunk so I read it as “Lakers pull off CP3 trade” and I go to bed for 6 hours thinking they had Chris Paul. And then I wake up now and actually read it right and now I come on here and find out Odom is getting “donated”.
WTF??? I don’t understand donating or simply giving away a great player simply because he was unhappy with the no-trade, for whatever the reason.
I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot.- Kobe Bryant
A.J. Burnett's only fan!
There are many ways to skin a cat
I think the move of Odom was good. He will be missed for sure but how many years does he have left? 2 or 3 perhaps? The Lakers just freed up 9 mil from the cap. They do not HAVE to make a trade for D12 or CP3 at all. All CP3 has to do is let his agent know that any team that trades for him is just getting him for one year. He is four months away from being totally free. It is not as bad as we think and it will be over before he even knows it.
D12 can also pull the same move. So what teams are going to want to trade away their assets for just a one year rental? Not many smart ones that is for sure.
Considering this year is going to be crazy and that there are way too many back to back games, it will come down to which team is younger and lucky.
If I am the Lakers I am still looking at Houston to deal Pau there. If they can get back Scola to flip elsewhere (Indiana for Hansborough?) and Patrick Patterson or Jordan Hill plus a first round pick this year then they will have saved about 10 mil. That is another 10 mil off the books. Also, if they swap Scola for Tyler then they may get another first round pick too.
Next off season they should be able to trade Bynum for players and or picks and then just sign D12 as a free agent and CP3 too. They may have to amnesty someone (MWP) or buy out someone (Blake if he will go for it) and maybe get someone to retire (Walton) and even get Kobe to extend, restructure, whatever to free up even more room.
The Lakers can easily be in prime position 6 months from now to sign both CP3 and D12 easily. And why wouldn’t these players just play it out for a few more months to eventually get to go where they want? They can sign a two or three year deal when they get here and then get a much larger second contract.
It depends on what the players want most of all. If they want to be here like the Heat players did then they can wait another shortened season. Meanwhile, Stern is pooping his pants because now his team is screwed. Those 10,000 season seats are going to be turned in because they are going to suck for a few years. Good luck with that Stern.
If I am CP3 I am informing all teams to do not bother as I will OPT OUT at the end of this year and go play where I want.
Of course this is far fetched but considering Pau is 31 years old and making a lot of money the Lakers may be better off in the long run by freeing up cap space, picking up draft picks, and getting some younger players in return with potential that may or may not come to fruition. Kobe will be pissed for sure but what can you do. As he said himself, the players will just have to “DO THEIR JOBS”.
If the Lakers stand pat this year then the trade market for Gasol will be smaller as he will be older (i.e. his value will go down) and then they will just have to ride it out. Also, if they stand pat they could try to add a Billups or Arenas too. Doubtful but probably better and cheaper than Jameer Nelson.
no cap space
Czheck Productions
Beatsforyounow.com music community
I've never done anything good for the world, and I'm not about to start now-DF
Follow @Czheck
the lakers have not had capspace
and hopefully never will
Czheck Productions
Beatsforyounow.com music community
I've never done anything good for the world, and I'm not about to start now-DF
Follow @Czheck
Dude, our current payroll is like $84.5 million.
The cap is $58 million. There is no possible way we can clear enough space to sign both since Kobe takes up $27 million by himself. And then there are the rookies, Fisher, Ebanks, Caracter, etc. Even if you kicked EVERYONE off the roster save Kobe, the “imaginary” cap holds for the remaining players to field a roster would prevent us from having enough room. Your plan is as unrealistic as it gets.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
thats the thing...
all good points but like me? i dont want to wait till next yr! i just sat through a aweep last yr, and a lockout this yr…i want results MOW!!!
by Mark Jaramillo on Dec 11, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
Question for people who know how the cap works...
Is there anyway Kobe can renegotiate his deal? His salary is crippling when it takes up half of our cap space.
good luck lol
Czheck Productions
Beatsforyounow.com music community
I've never done anything good for the world, and I'm not about to start now-DF
Follow @Czheck
Why should Kobe renegotiate his deal?
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
How were the Knicks able to deal for Chandler
Three team deal, Wiz get Ronny Turiaf. Knicks get Tyson Chandler. Where is superStern at to stop this debacle? The NBA is becoming a bad joke. The trade for Carmello last season was way worse then the one we had with New Orleans. This is pure bias. If this sort of shit continues, I will stop watching the NBA!
Chandler could have just signed in FA
The way they did it enabled Dallas and Washington to get something back as well.
You can't restructure a deal
Kobe’s contract is on the books until it expires and then an extension could be negotiated at a lower value if he was willing to take it. The only other way to reduce his salary would be to amnesty him and that would mean losing him completely. So to answer your question….NO!
by Actuarially Sound on Dec 11, 2011 6:54 AM PST reply actions
I don't think that's true anymore
I remember reading somewhere that players could restructure a deal with as much as a 40% decrease in salary.
Doubt Kobe would be interested in that though. He’s been on record previously as saying that it’s not in his job description to take less money so the team has more to spend.
But didn't he also say on record he'd do whatever it takes for the team to win?
---
Revenge is ice cream.
That shouldn't mean taking less money. He's earned every penny and Jerry Buss will agree with that.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying, he's said a lot of things.
Like how he wanted Andrew Bynum to be traded, etc.
My point is, everything that’s been said needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Or an entire shaker.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Well, make no mistake about it, he really did want Andrew traded.
But saying he’ll do anything to win has nothing to do with HIS salary. That’s about his work on the court.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
Somehow off-topic but how does amnesty work?
Can teams just get amnestied players like Billups, Arenas etc? They aren’t free agents?
ONWARD!
Teams that are below the cap have first dibs
They can offer up to the amount they are below the cap and the highest offer wins. If no one bids then I think the teams that are over the cap can use their various exceptions to try and land the player.
by Actuarially Sound on Dec 11, 2011 7:08 AM PST up reply actions
Waiting til next year...
is everyone else’s motto, not the Lakers. Do the deals that will let the team win now and set us up for later….don’t punt this season so we can get D12 next year. That wastes a year of Kobe’s brilliant play. He won’t be here forever. Get D12 now.
As for all the scenarios about getting Billups and Baron….it isn’t as easy as them picking the Lakers cuz they can win here….they are amnestied, which means they are put on a waiver wire. All the teams under the cap have first priority to pick them up. Even if they don’t wanna play for that team, they don’t really have an option. They could hold out…but that means that the team who picked them up doesn’t have to pay the player….there is NO downside to picking up those guys…so they WILL be picked up by some team.
I dunno though
what is the point of one of those teams picking those players up? If a team is under the cap, they most likely aren’t contenders and have a young nucleus they wanna play and dont wanna give away PT to a guy that wont be there next year. On top of that, if the player makes it clear he doesn’t wanna play there, itll just alienate other agents and guys in the union and discourage them to play for that Owner in the future. I really dont see all that much upside to the blind bidding process, unless a team is able to trade the player they pick up immediately.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Dec 11, 2011 7:14 AM PST up reply actions
If a guy doesn't wanna report
he is going against the CBA that he just signed. I completely understand why Billups wouldn’t wanna go play on a losing team at this stage of his career, but those are the breaks of maybe not living up to such a big contract. He was making 14.2 mil. Kinda insane for a PG averaging 17.5 and 5.5. The only Pgs making more then him were Deron Williams, Chris Paul, and Gibert Arenas(also amnestied). If he was properly paid he would still be in NY.
As for other players not wanting to sign with a team that picks these amnestied players up…I don’t buy it. Players will always be looking to pick up a pay check, and they are obviously not getting the Dwight Howards and Chris Pauls anyways. You play the system to make your team as good as you can make it. You pick up a good player off waivers whenever you can to make your team better.
Actually
If a guy clears waivers, then he gets his full promised salary, PLUS whatever he signs for with his new team. So he’ll make more money if he doesn’t get picked up. And he’ll get paid the full amount of his old contract either way. That’s a sneaky reason for him to try to dissuade teams from claiming him.
insanity.
The logic behind trading Odom to Dallas for future turds escapes me. As it stands now we have tha same team that got swept. Now a year older not better. No improvement at PG where we got consistently abused which ultimately screewed our entire d. We haven’t gotten any younger or any more athletic and gained one player who can shoot but Nothing else. Mitch better pull a rabbit out tha hat or tha Lakers are screwed. Long and short term
Da Bears....enuff said
by EmmCeee on Dec 11, 2011 8:45 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Lamar had to go...
Lamar wasn’t traded FOR a draft pick or two…the Lakers just got rid of him and his salary and ended up with a little something for it. The whole distraction of his wife and Pau’s wife and Shannon Brown’s wife etc. was the single most important reason for the Lakers loss to Dallas last season. Add to that the fact that Kobe couldn’t push the team in practice and BOOM…the bottom dropped out of the season. New Coach + New Teamates = New Focus. I’m gonna Trust In Mitch on this one…something good is gonna happen!
Bravo.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
lol i love reading that
"If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life — tell me who you’re going to pick? You’re going to look at the stats first?" - Kobe Bryant
by desecrator09 on Dec 11, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
You had me
except for the
“distraction of his wife and Pau’s wife and Shannon Brown’s wife etc. was the single most important reason for the Lakers loss to Dallas last season”
line.
Yeah, that's bullshit. But the rest was good.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
All that sounds good.
But the fact is they could have gotten the same picks, probably even better ones considering the teams we could have traded him to/.
The wives werent on t5he court . The players were and they got abused….which apparently wont change as we have the same squad minus the 6th man of the year. People are pinning all their hopes on getting Howard but that wont stop teams from clogging the paint and daring us to shoot 3’s. We still have no one outside of Kobe who can create shots for themselves or others so realistically how much will things change by adding Dwight? But hey we will “possibly” get a guy who stays healthy so that’s a plus.
Da Bears....enuff said
if we do get dwight, it'll be with turk
while turk is overpaid, he’s still a solid playmaker and best of all, he is actually a pretty decent 3pt shooter for a guy 6-10
Cancelled trade for Chris Paul...
Although I don’t want to wish a bad future for New Orleans fans I look forward to Paul being traded somewhere and the team getting much less for him. Dear owners…fire Stern!
I think Mitch is preparing the Gasol/Bynum trade because of Chicago and David West
We could use our TPE on D.West, but we need to convince him to play here. Backing up Pau isn’t going to cut it. Obviously I’d like to keep Pau, but if we did we would still have Fish as point guard(god no). So if we do the Bynum/Gasol for Howard/Nelson/Turk we essentially kill two birds w/ one stone getting the best C and a damn good point guard(who is familiar w/ Dwight), and a 6th(still not Lamar). D.West could become our staring 4 man(if not him there are others like Scola or Millsap).
Why do I bring up Chicago? You really think Dwight wouldn’t want to play with D.Rose? They can package Noah/Deng/+ filler for Dwight. Otis would take a strong look at that, Im just saying. It’s better than NJ’s offer so to me it puts them 2nd behind our offer(bynum/gasol). If we jus offer Bynum+filler then Chicago leap frogs us IMHO.
Just an example: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7fxjxzl
Knicks really looking to build something close to a contendor
after Crawford and Barea now.
"If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life — tell me who you’re going to pick? You’re going to look at the stats first?" - Kobe Bryant
Chris Mannix:
Knicks have been in contact with J.J. Barea and are making a strong push to acquire him, source says.
Knicks don’t have the money to sign Barea outright but, according to a source, are working on different scenarios to land him
"If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life — tell me who you’re going to pick? You’re going to look at the stats first?" - Kobe Bryant
by desecrator09 on Dec 11, 2011 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
nvm I see in the NYP
there working on a 3 team trade. If they get both, I think they probably have a shot at the conference finals w/ Boston’s decline. The team they are building can take out the Bulls. Hell the team they had last year gave Chicago headaches lol.
by Q.Calloway25 on Dec 11, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
I think
Chicago seriously underachieved in the playoffs last year. I dunno that I trust the Knicks to get any stops against them, especially if Bibby is checking Rose.
In the regular season
Knicks gave Chicago lots of match-up problems. And in the playoffs, match-up problems make a big difference. Stoudemire can run rampant on Boozer same w/ Melo and Deng. Rose has his way w/ anyone, but if you shut off his teammates then what else do Chicago have? If Ny gets Crawford and Barea, they could be poised for an upset(if Ny’s the lower seed).
by Q.Calloway25 on Dec 11, 2011 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
This to me feels like
the failure that occurred in… ‘03? With the Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton thing failing in the Finals- the things that happened afterward with the players that left, the players traded away and the coach that left… the team was scrambled for awhile and they didn’t get better till ‘07 when they got Gasol and there was actual team chemistry. Might it be another 4 years till this team gets back on track? Idek, but damn things are messed up for the Lakers right now. With no Paul or Howard- I can’t imagine how these guys recover.
BASKETBALL REASONS Y'ALL.
Well the team is intact besides Lamar
Pau seems ok, everyone else is fine. And from what I’ve heard Mike Brown seems to be getting green reps from lots of folks. Oh yeah, and this team doesn’t have Chucky Atkins and Chris Mihm as its starting pg and C lmao.
by Q.Calloway25 on Dec 11, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
with Kwame on the horizon
"If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life — tell me who you’re going to pick? You’re going to look at the stats first?" - Kobe Bryant
by desecrator09 on Dec 11, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Gasol came to us in '08.
You're only a success for the moment that you complete a successful act. - Tex Winter
Tweetness
damn. POR signed Kurt Thomas.
I was hoping we could target him.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
I don't care what the end result is, but @ this point I hope they sue
Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
As reported Fri, union told Stern it will pursue litigation if no suitable CP trade made by Monday. Claim could be collusion, sources say
by Fin Fan Forever on Dec 11, 2011 10:31 AM PST reply actions
I know this sucks for the Lakers
but the real victim is the Hornets franchise
"Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die."
by Tommy Blackjack on Dec 11, 2011 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
O for sure they got the worst of it, but every team has been greatly affected
The Hornets management is said to be in shock, and they don’t know what to do anymore. Also all the individual players involved were really given the shaft by this whole ordeal. Also Rockets management is pretty upset because they were shooting for Nene, but not having Gasol has put all their plans on hold. And LA management, as of right now it seems like that, just shipped off Odom for nothing to a rival.
You could make arguments that the Knicks and other teams were affected because they had interest in CP3 but had no trading pieces, so they signed other players. Well now it looks like he’s gonna be a free agent next year and now those teams have signed other players for long contracts which put them out of the running again.
by Fin Fan Forever on Dec 11, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
I was thinking about backup bigs since Kurt Thomas was gone and
since I want to avoid another Theo Ratliff debacle, why hasn’t anyone thought about Ryan Hollins? Dude is young and athletic for his height, and he went to UCLA
Did he decline his player option? Didn't know that he was a free agent.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
I think he is still on the Cavs
He also sucks. He will have a few great moments throughout the year, like when he slammed consecutive dunks on the head of LBJ, but most of the time, he is mediocre-bad defensively, and has no offensive game aside from offensive rebounds or someone setting him up for a dunk, and right now, nobody on our team can really do that.
He would definitely be a better backup then Ratliff, but hopefully he wouldnt play much. I dont think he is a FA anyway, so whatever.
He isn't listed on the Cavs roster
and that’s all we’d need him for lol. Anythings better than Ratliff.
by Q.Calloway25 on Dec 11, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
better than him signing with Boston
"The true athlete should have character, not be a character."- John Wooden
"Always turn a negative situation into a positive situation."- Michael Jordan
twitter:@GGolden87
Hm. Weird thought...
remember the lakers needed that 1st rounder to get the CP3 trade through…well now we got it lol. Maybe now we can get the CP3 trade through? I’m j/k of course, but it’d be weird if true.
Go Sharks!
NO also wanted LO though
Im pretty sure if they had the choice they would take LO > draft picks anyday. Stern’s just a jackass, he deserves to get screwed over. We (well, Houston) offered him a damn good deal, and now he’s going to have to probably settle for something shittier
"I don't mind being the goat. I don't mind being the villain, hated. I've been that my whole career, so it's not like that's anything new. I don't mind people jumping on the bandwagon or jumping off. I just focus on playing the game." -Ron Artest
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
Ok, so is there any possibility of the Lakers signing CP3 next year?
with the salary cap limitations?
"I’ve never understood this stuff, where a star player sits out and a team goes into the tank. Well, they need him because he makes them better. Well, if he’s making them better, they should be able to survive without him. That’s how you lead your guys. You’ve got to be able to make guys suffice on their own, without you. If you’re there all the time and they take you away, they shouldn’t need a respirator."
-Kobe Bean Bryant
some snippets from lakers beatwriters..
@mike_bresnahan
After trading Odom, are Lakers about to get Howard or maybe revisit Paul trade again? Source: “There’s nothing going on.”
@kevinding
I’m told there’s no way Lakers are trading Bynum and Gasol for Dwight Howard.
Slava.
http://www.twitter.com/hobojarpen
hmm Idk
for some reason this just doesn’t feel right. For one the NO/HOU/LA trade was pretty much all created because of Pau.
Lamar was thrown in because the Lakers wanted the TPE, thats why we didn’t want to take back anyone but Chris Paul.
We were looking for another 1st round pick to give NO, but couldn’t acquire one. LO now gets shipped to Dallas for a TPE and a 1st round pick. Im pretty sure it’s dead ATM, but after the NBPA tries their litigation it could get the ball rolling on that again as we’d have another pick for them.
I don’t see us trading both Gasol AND Bynum for Dwight only. I believe the TPE we got from LO wasn’t for us, but the Magic. Instead of sending them Gasol, we can give them the TPE or acquire the player they want with it and ship him to Orlando w/ Bynum. That with picks, and if you have to for Turk, send Steve Blake to them so they can have a decent backup versus Chris Duhon.
I’m just trying to stay positive after this epic shit storm that has went down. The Lakers could be just trying to see about the CP situation atm, or they could not, but the scenario I came up with seems like something someone could have been thinking.
So, to recap:
-LO to Dallas for trade player exception worth $8.9M(was going to get from NO anyway) and 1st rounder
-Pau to Rockets,Scola/Martin/(young player(s))/1st round from NY
Now take that and:
-Bynum,DAL trade player exception(or player of ORL choosing),LA first rounder, future 1st and 2nd rounders, and Steve Blake/Caracter/Ebanks(if they want sweeteners) for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu
-Pau to Houston
-Scola,Martin,Lee/Patterson/Hill/Budinger, NY 1st rounder, DAL 1st rounder to Hornets for Chris Paul(obviously this deal has to wait for the NBPA claim of collusion)
KEEP HOPE PEOPLE!
Feeling a 3 Team Trade LAL-ORL-DAL
No agreement has been finalized, but Cuban has already spoken to Odom by phone? No progress, no news, only silence all day? I think Odom for Picks is only one part of the deal. It will be Odom to DAL, Howard and Turkoglu to LAL, and Bynum and Picks (from DAL and/or LAL) to ORL, as the major components of the trade. It would appear DAL has signed on, and Mitch is quietly working out the package details with ORL.
We shouldn’t include Gasol in any package, as we need him to either trade for Paul this season or possibly for a sign & trade next summer. If Gasol is traded now, we need to get equal value for him.
i dont think we are getting howard anymore
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