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Around SBN: Kobe Bryant Will Never Top Michael Jordan

Kobe Bryant: never a wizard, forever a Laker...


A response, of sorts, to a recent fanshot that addresses Kobe Bryant, perceptions about his greatness, big-man requirements for a dominant team, and the duty of fandom.

Star-divide

So he may end up with a top-10 career of all-time, but he will never be a top-10 player.

 

That just smacks of hate and bias. It actually reflects the pompous and vitriolic commentary leveled at Kobe from self-righteous stats heads a la wages of wins, etc.

Shaq was dominant because he was an athletic 7'2" center that allowed him to physically destroy less active and athletic big men. Does this make him a better player? My little cousin is 12 and can dribble, shoot, and generally play basketball better than me. Guess what, I kick his ass because I’m a foot taller and 150 pounds bigger. Shaq-attack son!

Shaq, Duncan, hell, LBJ, play a game that is skewed statistically to valuing the contributions of a big man over a guard; less ball handling = fewer turnovers, more assisted shots, more chances to get a block or rebound, and closer shots = better efficiency. In a game which requires you to score in order to win (duh), Kobe has been maligned because he tries to do just that; win by scoring.

 

Let’s look at Championships over the last ten years or so, shall we?

 

1999-2002, the Lakers reign supreme. Shaq is dominant, but plays with all star guard Kobe Bryant. You think the Lakes would have done as well playing, say, Bimbo Coles as a guard?

Spurs, 03, 05, 06, Duncan plays with All Stars Ginobli and Parker. Oh yeah, Parker actually picks up the finals MVP in 2007. I know that the Admiral was there as well, and the fact that having TWO all star big-men played a huge part in their victories. Again, how would this have gone with scrubs as guards? Not as well, I’m thinking.

Detroit 04. Dominant big man where are you? A pair of Wallaces (Walli?) helped, but absent Billups (finals MVP), this team would not have beaten the Lakers. Also, Richard Hamilton goes on to become, yes, an all star.

Miami 06. Wade and Shaq. They beat the Mavericks in a season I admit that I mostly didn't pay attention to outside of the Lakers. However, Wade is the finals MVP, not Mr. Diesel.

Boston, 2008. Yuck, typing that actually hurt. Physically. Garnett the big man. MVP of the NBA. Perennial loser for years in Minnesota finally pairs with all stars Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, and wins a championship. He does not win finals MVP.

Lakers 2009-20infinity. The Lakers, with a multitude of talent, including all stars Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant, better all comers. Was it the shoes, Kobe? Ask MJ, I don't know. All I do know is that Kobe takes both finals MVPs.

 

Actually, let’s consider something else. Since 1980, guards have won the finals MVP 15 times, centers 10 times, and forwards 5 times. It appears that the true key to a winning season in the "modern era" is a star back court, not the opposite.

Kobe’s hands are smaller than MJs? He can’t finish around the rim like Dwight? He is getting older? Okay, how exactly does this detract from what Kobe is accomplishing in his 15th NBA campaign? Not much, really. In fact, Kobe’s PER is the highest it’s been since 2007, and it’s his second best year out of the last five in shooting at the rim and under 10 feet, where, according to your opinion, his lack of MJ sized hands and Dwight height should hinder him. What’s really scary, though, is that Kobe is hitting at over 50% from the mid-range area of the court. That’s the best he’s shot in the last 5 years!

What’s important to remember is that there’s a huge difference between ranking a player’s career and ranking his talent. If the Lakers win another championship, Kobe will have two more rings than Tim Duncan. But are we really going to act like he was a better player or he had more of an impact on a game?

Really, you’re going to say that Duncan is a more talented player than Kobe? That his play has had more of an impact? I think you’ve got it backwards, my friend. Nobody is as talented a player as Kobe. Nobody. Show me one player that has the same jumper, the same footwork. You’re going to rank the plodding game of a Tim Duncan against the amazingly skilled Kobe Bryant? Check please!

I think instead of jumping on the "Kobe is flawed" train, we should take a moment to enjoy the ride while it lasts. As fans, it's okay defending our favorite team, and our favorite players. It's what makes watching our favorite sports teams so enjoyable, and painful. We've invested. So take that Kobe-hatin' somewhere else.

 

Kobedunksondwighthoward_medium

As far as we're concerned, case Klosed...

Comment 28 comments  |  12 recs  | 

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Good job!

Who is responsible for the quote about Duncan being a better player and having more of an impact on the game than Kobe?

Screams from the haters gotta nice ring to it. I guess every super hero needs his theme music.

"God's rainwater flows through the same gutter that we walk today; gotta stay brave brother. Keep your lip stiff, keep your fists clinched. Sometimes you gotta kick your way through this bitch." - Brother Ali

by Deuce4Mamba on Jan 27, 2011 8:28 AM PST reply actions  

Dwyer?

I remember reading his Top 10 Players of the Decade and TD is numero uno?

Tim Duncan wins championships. Vince Carters fills the arenas.
Kobe Bryant does both.

The ideal way to win a championship is step by step.
-Phil Jackson

by imposibol on Jan 29, 2011 11:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I love your piece, and rec'd it.

But I was tempted to delete it just for linking to such an idiotic hater. Seriously, fuck that guy. I could email him, point out every single piece of evidence that shows him to be wrong, but when somebody says something as stupid as this:

So he may end up with a top-10 career of all-time, but he will never be a top-10 player.

There’s no helping him.

LeBron James on Twitter after the Lakers annihilated Cleveland: "Crazy, karma is a bitch! You should never wish ill on anybody, God is always watching!'
Since then, the Heat have lost three straight to an injury-depleted Bulls, a blowout by the Nuggets, and a loss to the fucking Clippers; LeBron has missed two games due to injury and now Bosh is injured.

Ain't karma a bitch?

by Saurav A. Das on Jan 27, 2011 8:31 AM PST reply actions  

I PITY THE FOOL!

"God's rainwater flows through the same gutter that we walk today; gotta stay brave brother. Keep your lip stiff, keep your fists clinched. Sometimes you gotta kick your way through this bitch." - Brother Ali

by Deuce4Mamba on Jan 27, 2011 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

And no, I haven't read his piece.

Nor do I recommend anybody else does.

LeBron James on Twitter after the Lakers annihilated Cleveland: "Crazy, karma is a bitch! You should never wish ill on anybody, God is always watching!'
Since then, the Heat have lost three straight to an injury-depleted Bulls, a blowout by the Nuggets, and a loss to the fucking Clippers; LeBron has missed two games due to injury and now Bosh is injured.

Ain't karma a bitch?

by Saurav A. Das on Jan 27, 2011 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

I wrestled with that myself

and in the end just linked to our fanshot section. What’s really low is that he basically put some flattering comments from his piece, that taken out of context, would appear to actually be supportive of Kobe. Nope, it’s just a hook. I am very tired of the hate as well.

For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
lebron should just lock himself away and not talk for the rest of forever-LA32

by 99bc99 on Jan 27, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Oxy-freakin' moron..

To a certain sportsguy: shouldn’t the fact that our best player, and the only superstar in this championship series, shot just 6-24, AND YOU STILL LOST, be a testament to the overall ability and greatness of our team, rather than a negative to that certain player? If anything it says a little something more about your team. We beat you even though our best scorer only made 6 shots? Ouch. That’s almost as painful as Tom Brady’s Justin Bieber haircut.
-Rory Stillman

by Ray DLC on Jan 27, 2011 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

i tried reading tht crap...

tl:dr cuz dude was all over the place…

and he’s right… kobe isn’t the wizard of oz… cuz the wizard of oz wasn’t real…

When will people learn.. the greatest of all time wore number 32 and wore purple and gold....

by lenxo on Jan 27, 2011 9:02 AM PST reply actions  

Rec'd

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

"I'm a perfectionist who's not perfect." - Ron Artest

8 + 24 > 23 + 6

by LakerAce on Jan 27, 2011 9:22 AM PST reply actions  

huh?

can you pls name the culprit (hater) so i can verbally abuse him!! i dont understand…small hands? cant finsh around the rim? even HOF’MERS have stated that kobe bryant was a way better jumpshooter than the G.O.A.T. mj never had kobe’s perimeter gm, and kobe was way better behind the arc than mj. soo if kobe would never be top ten…hold on….(bwaaaahaaaahaaaahaaaaa!! cough, cough…DUMBASS!…cough*), than why is he creeping up the scoring list this yr and about to supplant another great in hakeem "the dream? i wonder what that culprits going to think if/when kobe bryants knocking on kareems door? with yet another ring?…..were waiting?

by Mark Jaramillo on Jan 27, 2011 9:52 AM PST reply actions  

Jordan really does have huge hands though.

Notice Kobe never really palms the ball a lot like Jordan did. Not to mention, now he literally can’t do it anymore if he wanted to because of his finger.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)

by Marty Mart on Jan 27, 2011 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice job, 99bc99. Me likey.

"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson

Tweetness: @SoCalGal64

by SoCalGal on Jan 27, 2011 10:47 AM PST reply actions  

Bravo!

It’s great to know you have room in your heart for a player other than AMMO.

"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach

"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")

by Koshu on Jan 27, 2011 3:41 PM PST reply actions  

Hahaha...

To a certain sportsguy: shouldn’t the fact that our best player, and the only superstar in this championship series, shot just 6-24, AND YOU STILL LOST, be a testament to the overall ability and greatness of our team, rather than a negative to that certain player? If anything it says a little something more about your team. We beat you even though our best scorer only made 6 shots? Ouch. That’s almost as painful as Tom Brady’s Justin Bieber haircut.
-Rory Stillman

by Ray DLC on Jan 27, 2011 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL This

Tim Duncan wins championships. Vince Carters fills the arenas.
Kobe Bryant does both.

The ideal way to win a championship is step by step.
-Phil Jackson

by imposibol on Jan 29, 2011 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Factual errors:

- ‘Skill’ and ‘size are two entirely diff things. Kobe is the consensus most skilled player in the history of the League, he just does not have the athleticism or size to be as dominant as Young MJ.
- Author spends the entire article talking about how Kobe can’t dominate because he isn’t a big man, and then at the end just throws in that ‘oh, and he’s not as good as MJ either’, who was ALSO a guard
- All those big men he mentioned, asides from ‘94 Olajuwon, didn’t ‘single-handedly’ win the title, they won it in a PARTNERSHIP with a superstar player – normally perimeter.

There’s more, but I ceebs. The article is deceptively well-written, but littered with critical logical flaws.

LeBron James on Twitter after the Lakers annihilated Cleveland: "Crazy, karma is a bitch! You should never wish ill on anybody, God is always watching!'
Since then, the Heat have lost three straight to an injury-depleted Bulls, a blowout by the Nuggets, and a loss to the fucking Clippers; LeBron has missed two games due to injury and now Bosh is injured.

Ain't karma a bitch?

by Saurav A. Das on Jan 27, 2011 7:11 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Right

But, you’re wrong about 1 thing. Jordan and kobe are the same size. And jordan could jump higher, but kobe’s athleticism his first few years in league are pretty much on par with anyone.

The thing that people forget is that Kobe was a great defender by the time he was 20-21. And it took jordan until he was 25 or so to become a great defender.

by express34texas on Jan 28, 2011 8:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Nah, Jordan's shoulders were wider than Kobe

Kobe’s frame and athleticism were more on par with everyone in his class, where Jordan was built bigger than most people his size. Just look at a picture of them. Kobe even at his peak muscular nature, is not as broad shouldered as Jordan.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)

by Marty Mart on Jan 28, 2011 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Kobe is very muscular, but he is still sooooo skinny. See him in his All Star uniform (game thread from last night).

"2010 was a kick ass year." - Kobe Bryant
I truly believe that Kobe Bryant could go a month without food, water, or an iPad if it meant another championship. Kevin Garnett would give up trash talking for an hour if it meant two more rings. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! - Rod Benson

Tweetness: @SoCalGal64

by SoCalGal on Jan 28, 2011 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Kobe has actually lost weight as he got older.

2 or 3 seasons back, he dropped 20 pounds from 225 to 205 – 205 being very skinny for a 6’6" shooting guard. There were a couple of seasons where Kobe was around 225-230, which is Jordan in his prime (but not the latter half of his career, where he worked in the post), but for the most part Kobe has been smaller – not necessarily height-wise, but size-wise.

Kobe himself has said he’s always been a skinny kid, and he looks to me as the sort of person who’s had to work hard for every pound of muscle he gained; whilst Jordan seems to me the naturally big type; who’s worked just as hard to turn that size into muscle.

LeBron James on Twitter after the Lakers annihilated Cleveland: "Crazy, karma is a bitch! You should never wish ill on anybody, God is always watching!'
Since then, the Heat have lost three straight to an injury-depleted Bulls, a blowout by the Nuggets, and a loss to the fucking Clippers; LeBron has missed two games due to injury and now Bosh is injured.

Ain't karma a bitch?

by Saurav A. Das on Jan 28, 2011 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah better to be lighter anyway.

Less wear and tear on the body.

For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
lebron should just lock himself away and not talk for the rest of forever-LA32

by 99bc99 on Jan 28, 2011 8:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Great job man

Tim Duncan wins championships. Vince Carters fills the arenas.
Kobe Bryant does both.

The ideal way to win a championship is step by step.
-Phil Jackson

by imposibol on Jan 29, 2011 11:19 PM PST reply actions  

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