Sham with an 'e'
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 7:44 PM PDT
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PrintFor those of us familiar with Kelly Dwyer (Yahoo analyst) and his articles, this is for you... And for those of you not familiar, now is a better time to familiarize yourself...
Kelly Dwyer is a yahoo analyst, he is famous (among internet bloggers) for his witty writing at times, ability to stir controversy among Kobe fans, his insightful articles at times and for being confused by new comers as a female writer. As i mentioned his writing is sometimes quite insightful and offers new perspective on topics widely considered stable and unchanged. I have kept my mouth shut about many things Mr Dwyer has written. Such as not mentioning Kobe Bryant as a top defender at the guard position, mentioning Lebron as a better player than Kobe purely on statistical measures and just generally kissing lebron's valley of the butt however, this time... Kelly.... You've gone too far.
Your attempt to gain blogging publicity by underrating popular players has not pushed beyond my level of patience, however this list of the NBA's best point guards has. This list is a sham in so many ways and add an e to the end of that and indeed it is also a shame. Full of contradictions, full of double standards, full of pure bowing down to the media queens that it is beyond absurd and indeed deserves a full fan post to bring its weaknesses to light and indeed show your stupidity for putting out such a poorly written list to the devoted basketball public.
Before any of you read my analysis borderline bashing of this article (well it is more of a series of articles to make one big blog of crap) if you have not yet read the list please do so or you will find this post lacking in purpose... The first part is the list of point guards from number 30 - 21... The second is from 20 - 11 and the third and final part of this list is from the number 10 - 1...
The first example of stupidity comes in the form of Kelly mentioning John Wall as a top 30 point guard... John Wall is a good player from what i have seen and heard... However, he has not even stepped foot on a basketball court in an NBA game. This kid hasn't played Deron Williams at his best, Chris Paul, Rondo, hell he hasn't even played Fisher... yet Kelly has the audacity to place John Wall at number 17... 17!!!.... Think about this, he put John 'haven't-played-a-game' Wall, at number 17, the kid is ahead of the likes of Aaron Brookes, Jose Calderon, Moe and Lou freaking Williams... This is just ludicrous, how can you put him at number 17? Based on what? I know Kelly is a stats man, so based on what stats? Based on which memorable performance? Based on which achievement, on what success on what failure... John Wall has so far done enough to be acknowledged as an exciting draft pick for the Wizards, as a promising prospect, even as a good player, so let us acknowledge him for that, why is Kelly so eager to put this kid in a place he does not belong yet, have we all forgotten Kwame Brown?
This ridiculousness of putting John Wall on the list leads us to the next problem, Derek Fisher. Kelly put John Wall on the list and not Derek the intangible fish? Derek Fisher has solidified himself this season as one of the best role players in recent history, his regular season left much to be desired, but how can you put a list of 30 point guards and not take into consideration the one point guard who defied everything we thought we knew and gifted the Lakers a game they would not have won without him, how? How can Kelly justify this? Fisher has earned the right to be mentioned among the most reliable point guards in the league when it matters... And you want stats? Show me John Wall's and I'll show you Derek Fisher's...
Kelly's list also publicly flashed humangusaurus-like double standards.. I will give you one example only for the sake of keeping this article to a bearable length... Kelly rated Tony Parker as number 9 on the list... And judging on last season yes, i would rank him there also... Injuries held him back, Spurs didn't perform to the standard they have been accustomed to in the playoffs, fine number 9 is good, yet, he put Chris Paul as number one? uno? The guy who missed half a season with injuries as number one? The guy who's team has just been crashing? Chris Paul is a great talent, i am not debating otherwise, yet Kelly in the Tony Parker explanation just said that injuries played a part in why Tony was ranked so low and that indeed Tony Parker is a top 5 when firing on all cylinders, so according to this explanation these rankings are based on last seasons performances yes? Well last seasons performances dictated that Chris Paul was injured and definitely was not the top point guard in the league, Deron Williams played with an injury and was the most effective point guard in the league, Rondo reached the damn NBA finals, Russel Westbrook was one of the top two reasons (the other being Kevin Durant) that the Thunder put up more than just a fight against the Lakers and Steve Nash has just been defying any and all critics by playing as good as a top 3 point guard would... Look i don't care if Chris Paul is number one, when playing his best with no injuries he is arguably number one, but based on last season, you cannot be in the right mind and put Chris Paul even in the top 3, i just named 4 point guards who did much more than Chris Paul did last season and i didn't even have to think hard about it.
I have named three glaring weaknesses (borderline stupidity characteristics) evident in the list presented to the yahoo public by Mr Kelly Dwyer. For the sake of time and practicality i will leave it at three. I could easily go on a killing spree with the list and detail where i think players should be ranked and so on, however this is a matter of opinion and preference of players. The three glaring weaknesses i have mentioned have nothing to do with opinion, rather they are glarring weaknesses of Mr Dwyer's basketball knowledge and writing skills.
Respectful as i am to the few insightful articles he has presented us with, this article is not one of them, this list along with the explanations can not and should not be allowed to pass as acceptable blogging. This is not just if Kelly Dwyer writes it, but if any blogger even here were to write such crap we should all stand up against it and let them know. This type of rubbish being fed to us lacks insight, knowledge, impartiality and consistency. All things that should be standard and expected of professional writers. I urge you all to voice your opinions and even boycott certain writers if you feel they do not live up to the standards we as devoted basketball readers should be getting. I am not at that stage with Kelly Dwyer yet, but this list is really just a reflection of the absolute crap being fed to us by the media. Basketball deserves so much better than the media and it's propaganda is feeding us. And all this media and propaganda is embodied in this horrible list by Kelly in order to feed us crap and make him a few pennies.
It is all a sham... But add an e to the end of it... And truly, it's all such a shame...
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I don't hate Dwyer as much
But I can agree he had some slip ups in this one. He put Rondo at 3 and Nash at 4. I would’ve switched to two only because Rondo has more around him and Nash is a better shooter.
Until Rondo can hit a consistent and threatening jumper, he’s not as good as Steve Nash.
Everyone in this room is now dumber. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I consider Rondo better than Nash, no doubt.
Remember, defense is half the game.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
Nah..
I wouldn’t want a PG with no jumpshot, who relies on driving, but when he gets fouled, shoots 26% from the line in the finals. Steve Nash is an amazing shooter and passer, and even though his defense sucks, what he brings on offense far outweighs his defensive flaws.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
Okay, so Nash can shoot.
Rondo will give you FAR more rebounding. People say rebounds don’t matter from a PG but they do. Rondo plays much better defense. His steals initiate all kinds of fastbreaks. He can draw an entire defense. His ballhandling is as good as Nash’s. He’s as fast, if not faster. He’s probably quicker, although that’s debatable. He can take over a game in many ways, I’ve only seen Nash do it in a few ways (passing and shooting, mostly.)
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
It all goes down to what kind of players you have surrounding you.
Yes, Rondo is faster and is a far superior defender. But, he can’t shoot. He’s just a terrible shooter. Sure he can drive, but what happens when he faces a smart defender (Kobe) that knows how to play 5-10 feet off? Now where did his driving ability go? Nash is a just such a good creator/initiator of offense. He knows the game well. Most importantly, in a match up against Rondo, he’s the best shooting PG this league has.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
I've seen what Rondo does when players back off of him.
It’s a scary thing. He ripped up the Cavs with his passing and it was LeBron on him. I know LeBron may not be a model defender, but he’s 6’8, 260 and athletic. Rondo made him look dumb.
Another thing I’ve noticed about Rondo is his insane stamina. I’ve seen Rondo before right after a playoff game in which he played 45 minutes or so. He wasn’t even breathing heavy. He had a little bit of sweat on his face, but other than that there was no indication that he had just gone hard for that many minutes (yes, that’s what she said.) He’s an amazing athlete.
I actually think his jumper is underrated. Nash is the better shooter by a mile and there’s no arguing that. I’m just saying that I’ve seen Rondo drill 15-18 footers consistently when people have backed off of him.
I have a feeling we’ll have to just agree to disagree here because a strong argument can be made for both.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
i wanna see what games you're watching...
I’ve seen Rondo drill 15-18 footers consistently when people have backed off of him
3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.
the alternate universe
starring Faker Rondo
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Fixed
Faker Rondo Steve Urkel
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow
haha!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
He ripped the Cavs apart last year in ways you would never imagine.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
he tore them apart
but i don’t think he did it by drilling jumper after jumper.
he did shoot surprisingly good at the FT line during the cavs series, though.
3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.
You mean .659%? lol
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
Yep
Terrible for a PG though.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
He wasn't splashing jumper after jumper like Kobe or anything.
But he was hitting them when the defense sagged too far off.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
he did have a "dream" series agianst the Cavs i will give you that
but overall he cant hit 15 footers
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 20, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Lol
I’ve seen Nash hit 23 footers consistently with people in his face…
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
yeah....agianst us last year
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 20, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, agree to disagree.
Like I previously said, it depends on what kind of players you have around you. If you have good shooters/lesser rebounders on your team, then Rondo’s driving ability will benefit you more. If you have good finishers or big men on your team, Nash is better to spread the floor and take shots with.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
i think dywer said that these rankings are for the 2010-2011 year.. so theyre like his predictions for this years season on who will be the top point guard..he said its not based on pass performances, he said its about “what will happen in 2 months not 2 years” or something like that
Yes Dwyer did say that BUT
that just shows how much more hypocritical this analysis was, here is the sentence where he said what these rankings were
“For one, the list is for 2010-11, so while past is prologue, it won’t mean a lick when it comes to putting it all together for this season”
If that doesn’t mean a lick then how can he put an explanation for where the players are ranked by saying that so and so player was injured this year so he has dropped in the rankings? Further more if he had a change of heart and said well i need to look at last season and rank, how can he put John Wall in there when there are no stats of him to compare or contrast?
I will highlight one of his dumber quotes in his so called explanation of these rankings (it isn’t really an explanation)
“So while Derek Fisher(notes) might be more important to the triangle offense than someone like John Wall(notes) would be … come on, it’s Derek Fisher vs. John Wall.”
This is the ridiculousness of his post, what sort of explanation is it to say that this player is more important but at the end of the day it’s just this person? This article is not stupid for where it ranks who, it’s stupid because it lacks what any analysis should not lack, impartiality and consistency, mixed in with some stupid ranks, such as john wall and not having Derek Fisher at all, and this list is well, oh come on, It’s Kelly Dwyer!!!
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
"So while Derek Fisher(notes) might be more important to the triangle offense than someone like John Wall(notes) would be … come on, it’s Derek Fisher vs. John Wall."
When it comes down to it, do you really think Fisher is a better player than Wall? Is there an objective argument you can put out past nebulous claims towards leadership (besides the fact that Wall showed exceptional poise and leadership at Kentucky)?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I don't think he's saying
Fish better than Wall, but that having Wall on there with no statistical progression against the league’s best to prove it, should also be able to put Fish on without justification. But Dwyer doesn’t like Fish really so its no surprise to me he wasn’t on there.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
I'm not really seeing the inconsistency here
The whole point of the rankings is to broadcast for next year, so Wall gets to be included as a result, and honestly, he’s better than nearly everyone from 20-30, so that’s fairly non-controversial. The remark as to the respective roles in the triangle was more to indicate that the players would be judged in a vacuum rather than their particular importance to whatever system those teams are running.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I should include summaries when i go over board
Suck me sideways what an idea!!!
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
I was just messin’ with SCG. She will read it.
Sweet 16
by bluexfalcon on Aug 18, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha yeah i've read your comments long enough to know your sense of humour
Sorry for dipping my fly in your ointment =)
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL, yeah I will, 'cuz I read everything.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
do ya?
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
She won't read and reply to this comment.
Book it.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
haha nobody calls out SoCal!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Please forgive me.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
oh how u have learned quickly yougn grasshopper
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow
lol
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
After you spend time in the corner, consideration will be given.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
I don't see a problem with Wall's rating.
He’s going to be the most athletic PG in the league. Blows by defenders with amazing speed, and has nice touch around the rim. Awesome driving ability. It’s not like he was selected as a top-1o point guard.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
hmmm
you see no problem with having a player who hasn’t played a lick of basketball in the nba being put ahead of proven Nba players? this isn’t a ranking for how the 2010-11 season will turn out, this is how they are ranked based on last seasons performance going in to 2010-11 season, noway in hell john wall should be found anywhere on this list, unless it was a rookie list
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 10:03 PM PDT reply actions
Its a ranking of the best players at the position.
Are you indicating that Lou/Mo Williams (18 & 19), and Jose Calderon (20) are gonna be better players than John Wall this season? Because I don’t.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
Nope
I’m just indicating that John Wall hasn’t played a lick of NBA ball but all three you mentioned have, did you predict the Kwame Brown downfall? John Wall doesn’t belong in any list that involves the best of anything unless it is most potential.. Period…
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Kwame Brown wasn't known for being exceptionally athletic,
Like John Wall. I just don’t see John Wall failing at the next level. I don’t think he’s gonna be a great PG until he develops a consistent jumper, but I definitely see him as a star in the next few years. His talents make very tough to contain on offense.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
Don't knoa alot about him....saw highlights of the summer league.
But Kobe think s he is gonna be special….that is enough for me!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay, so you have to play NBA games before you deserve any credit.
I guess that means Antoine Walker is a better player than John Wall. Interesting.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
LOL
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
I think you're being nitpicky
this is obviously a list meant to predict the 2010-2011 season. No where does Dwyer act hypocritical and cite specific injuries from the 2009-2010 season as hurting a player’s stock. He even acknowledges that Chris Paul was injured bad last season but still ranks him as number 1 because if he’s healthy that’s probably where he belongs.
It’s not unusual to predict that a #1 pick will be a top 20 player at his position in his rookie season. I’d have done the same for Durant and Blake Griffin recalling previous drafts.
My only beef with the list is that Tyreke Evans is nowhere to be found…but I’m guessing Dwyer considers him a 2 guard or it was just a gross oversight.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
I believe oversight is Dwyer's middle name....
I’ll get a copy of his birth certificate and get back to you on that one.
Kobe is like constantly in Kill Mode - Ron Artest
Yes actually
I did get upset about lack of Tyreke but deduced he’d be in the 2 guard list
I still think his statement about Tony Parker being number 9 because he is injured yet Chris Paul as number one though he was injured was a lack of consistency… And i also think it is clear that after last season, it doesn’t matter how injured Paul was, Deron is numero uno, that’s like saying if Shaq was still young he’s better than Dwight, Deron outclassed everyone last season, injured or not he is number one, Chris Paul has to bounce back this season…
Also these predictions as i stated in my comment up above are not how the 2010-11 season will end up, it’s how they start off, John Wall does not belong on any best of NBA list, in any position until he at least plays a few games…
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 18, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see anywhere in that article where it says that the predictions are based on how they start off...
It pretty much just says that the list is a ranking of point guards. Not sure there’s a definitive difference, but just clarifying that I don’t see anywhere how its about how they start off, because if so, then maybe John Wall won’t be that high during the beginning of the season, but I don’t think his ranking is improper.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
Here's some cool excerpts...
Appreciate your history, veterans, but we’re looking at who will bring the better game in two months, and not two years ago. It will also rank players based on who we think will be more valuable to a hypothetical team in a vacuum. So while Derek Fisher might be more important to the triangle offense than someone like John Wall would be … come on, it’s Derek Fisher vs. John Wall..
Ummm….what if this hypothetical team runs the triangle offense? Does John Wall still win out?? Laughable.
And production will go beyond (or, behind, even) your typical box score stats. You have to go about your night in an efficient way. We’ll be looking at all manner of advanced statistics as we go about ranking these players,
Of course, not all modes of production will accurately and consistently show up in even the most advanced and well-adjusted types of statistics.
That last line sounds like a cop out for someone who figured out that the stats don’t quite agree with his view..but that’s just IMO.
Kobe is like constantly in Kill Mode - Ron Artest
Oh, my bad, didn't see that part. The only part I saw was the actual lists
Which I found off the credits this morning.
Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.
i know we're laker fans and everythign
but do you really think Derek Fisher is a top 30 pg in the league right now? Why is he getting paid half the amount of our back up pg who also isn’t top 30? I think having Fish was critical to the Lakers but at this point his intangibles off the court are just as important if not more than what he brings on the court. He is the critical yin to Kobe’s yang. Leadership like that is understandably not accounted for in Dwyer’s rankings.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
especially
if you understand that this list is meant to be a ranking of next season expectations. I love D.Fish but it’s hard to see him being very productive next season considering that it’s expected that his minutes get cut even more with Steve Blake on the roster.
Sadly the NBA world does not completely revolve around the Lakers so authors of general sites like this have to take the regular season and meaningless Twolves – Nets match-ups into account when they write.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
I don't think you read that part correctly
Dwyer is saying that the high rank of 9 is in hopes that Tony Parker has a better, less injury ridden season than last year. Meaning that he ranked him high despite being injured.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
I also want to point out...
That given John Wall’s stats in his season at Kentucky, it’s a bit funny to see him at number 17, as a matter of fact, if you’re as much a fan of Hollinger’s “Advanced Statistics” as Kelly Dwyer is, you’d be hard-pressed to find John Wall on the top 100 list of individual player PER’s in college ball. That’s because his play has not reflected his potential just yet. Athleticism is fantastic if you know how to use it, but otherwise, it’s rather useless.
His stats aren’t exactly impressive…his assist to turnover ratio is ridiculous and he shoots a pitiful 33% from 3. He doesn’t average many rebounds and isn’t an outstanding FT shooter. How could you put this kid on a list of NBA caliber starting point guards and leave out Derek Fisher?
Based on Fisher’s career stats, I predict he’ll shoot more efficiently from 3 than Wall, shoot better from the stripe, and turn the rock over less than Wall in fewer minutes AND his team will go further in the playoffs because of his play. Yet he’s not good enough to go on Dwyer’s 2010-2011 list?
Kobe is like constantly in Kill Mode - Ron Artest
And here's the kicker...
This is Dwyer’s reason for putting him at 17, verbatim..
It’s all guesswork, at this point, isn’t it? We’ve seen Wall’s type before, and on some nights he’ll look like the best point guard in the league. On other nights he’ll look like a kid who should be suiting up against Mississippi State, and on others he’ll look like exactly what he is: A young talent who makes up for the missteps with fine play, a sound contributor regardless of age.
Doesn’t a lot of that sound like it could be applied to Fisher? Except instead of a young talent, he’s an old talent? I swear he could have used this exact description to put Fisher in here, because Fisher’s earned that much respect with his play over the years. If you’re going to put a list up based on potential, have some stats to back it up. Wall doesn’t have that, he has a hyped reputation, but until he does something in the NBA, he’s done nothing at all.
Kobe is like constantly in Kill Mode - Ron Artest
Given that the NBA will be far better for Wall
Given that the defensive rules are geared towards giving a clear advantage to fast guards that can penetrate into the paint on top of having one of the best offensive coaches in the game in Saunders, Wall having a definite impact from day one is pretty clear-cut. Sure, he may struggle with turnovers (he’s a rookie guard after all) but when it comes down to it, his production will exceed Fisher’s by a mile. I’m not sure how one can construct an argument to the contrary.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I dont like any of the BDL writers
They’re all Celtics arse kissers
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
they show love the Lakes every once in a while
Everyone in this room is now dumber. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
from reading his behind the box score the last two seasons
dwyer seems to be in love with the triangle offense. just loves watching how great it works when run perfectly. constantly gushes about it, moreso in 2009 than last season, though.
Ok so in particular it's Trey Kirby that I absolutely can't stomach
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Aug 19, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
yahoo sports is generally an awful place for commenting
too many pricks/ users who type in all caps.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
WHAT DID YOU SAY??? ANY ONE WNAT SOME OF THIS MONEY, IN IF YOU WANT SOME COME ON IN GET SOME
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
ALL THIS FREE AGENTS BULL SHIT, PAT RAILLY WANTS TO PUT WADE, LABRON, BOSH TOGETHER TO WHIP THE LAKERS, COME ON, I KNOW BOSTON DID IT LAST, PUT THAT TEAM TOGETHER WITH ONE OF MY FAVORITE PLAYER GARENETT, SO THAT WAS ALL RIGHT BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT GOING
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
by shaqfor3 on Aug 19, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
LMFAO!!
LAKERS FOR LIFE BABY
===
KOBY
MAGIC
KAREEN
JAMES WORTHY
JERRY WEST
WILT CHAMBERLIN
LEWIS MONROE
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
THE LAKERS WILL WIN THE 2011 WORLD CHAMPION THREE YEARS IN A ROW
lmonroe731 is legend
3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.
by LAL32 on Aug 19, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
OMG, that poor guy never came back. We so humiliated him, but it was probably the best fanpost in SS&R history.
Thank you, Lewis Monroe. You will never be forgotten.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
LOL a Legend!!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL.....imma post this on my Facebook and see how many ppl think im off my rocker!
ANY ONE WNAT SOME OF THIS MONEY, IN IF YOU WANT SOME COME ON IN GET SOME
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I actually remember the BEST comment in SS&R History that I've read...
Anyone remember this? WTF??
Ugly the cat
Everyone in the apartment complex I lived in knew who Ugly was. Ugly was the resident tomcat. Ugly loved three things in this world: fighting, eating garbage, and shall we say, love.
The combination of these things combined with a life spent outside had their effect on Ugly.
To start with, he had only one eye, and where the other should have been was a gaping hole. He was also missing his ear on the same side, his left foot has appeared to have been badly broken at one time, and had healed at an unnatural angle, making him look like he was always turning the corner.
His tail has long since been lost, leaving only the smallest stub, which he would constantly jerk and twitch. Ugly would have been a dark gray tabby striped-type, except for the sores covering his head, neck, even his shoulders with thick, yellowing scabs. Every time someone saw Ugly there was the same reaction. "That’s one UGLY cat!!"
All the children were warned not to touch him, the adults threw rocks at him, hosed him down, squirted him when he tried to come in their homes, or shut his paws in the door when he would not leave. Ugly always had the same reaction. If you turned the hose on him, he would stand there, getting soaked until you gave up and quit. If you threw things at him, he would curl his lanky body around feet in forgiveness. Whenever he spied children, he would come running meowing frantically and bump his head against their hands, begging for their love. If you ever picked him up he would immediately begin suckling on your shirt, earrings, whatever he could find.
One day Ugly shared his love with the neighbors huskies. They did not respond kindly, and Ugly was badly mauled. From my apartment I could hear his screams, and I tried to rush to his aid. By the time I got to where he was laying, it was apparent Ugly’s sad life was almost at an end.
Ugly lay in a wet circle, his back legs and lower back twisted grossly out of shape, a gaping tear in the white strip of fur that ran down his front. As I picked him up and tried to carry him home I could hear him wheezing and gasping, and could feel him struggling. I must be hurting him terribly I thought. Then I felt a familiar tugging, sucking sensation on my ear- Ugly, in so much pain, suffering and obviously dying was trying to suckle my ear. I pulled him closer to me, and he bumped the palm of my hand with his head, then he turned his one golden eye towards me, and I could hear the distinct sound of purring. Even in the greatest pain, that ugly battled-scarred cat was asking only for a little affection, perhaps some compassion.
At that moment I thought Ugly was the most beautiful, loving creature I had ever seen. Never once did he try to bite or scratch me, or even try to get away from me, or struggle in any way. Ugly just looked up at me completely trusting in me to relieve his pain.
Ugly died in my arms before I could get inside, but I sat and held him for a long time afterwards, thinking about how one scarred, deformed little stray could so alter my opinion about what it means to have true pureness of spirit, to love so totally and truly. Ugly taught me more about giving and compassion than a thousand books, lectures, or talk show specials ever could, and for that I will always be thankful.
He had been scarred on the outside, but I was scarred on the inside, and it was time for me to move on and learn to love truly and deeply. To give my total to those I cared for.
Many people want to be richer, more successful, well liked, beautiful, but for me, I will always try to be Ugly.
by Beko on May 18, 2010 12:36 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
5 friggin recs for this comment is awesome… here’s the link to the thread.
LoL.. I still cry from sadness and confusion every time I remember that.
Kobe is like constantly in Kill Mode - Ron Artest
I remeber that post,
it was definitely an interesting post after that game. Kind of a downer, but interesting.
"They call me the Muffin Man"
by true_lakerfan on Aug 19, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember that comment.
I wonder how beko is doing.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
who knows.....
i got no contacts wit all you loverly ppl outside of dis world
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I just wonder if he's made it through the summer so far.
He hasn’t posted in a little while. I guess we’ll just know if more and more time passes without a comment from him.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
what was he doin this summer?
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
He told us some time ago that he's very ill and didn't have a lot of time.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
ahhh got it :(
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 19, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
yep
he talked about in a fanpost. hope he’s doing ok.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
I don't mean this in the rude way...
But what do you mean by “ill?” Something really serious or something simple?
Either way, I don’t really know him well but I hope he’s alright.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
His post indicated that he was dying (at age 20) and this was the last season he would be able to watch the Lakers.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Wow...that's awful...
Kobe is like constantly in Kill Mode - Ron Artest
by MexcNguy1 on Aug 19, 2010 8:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Whadaya know, he just posted a fanshot.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
It turned green because, you know me, I'm always up for reccing funny comments
And that shit was funny
by Jevon O on Aug 20, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Lewis
You made me laugh more than I thought possible at bad grammar and misspelled words. God bless you.
by Jevon O on Aug 20, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
George Mikan...Come on now
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Aug 19, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
So I just read KD's sg rankings
and yeah. He’s kind of dumb.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
it's not a surprise
even if kobe had a 35/10/10 season, he’d find a way to put him at #2.
3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.
If you honestly think Fisher is remotely close to the player Wall is
Then you’re simply deluding yourself. If Wall had zero skills other than his absolutely insane athleticism, he’d still be a better player than Fisher. Trying to say otherwise is simply not true. If Washington offered us the first overall pick in the previous draft for Fisher, would you say no? That’s what you’re implying here.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Fisher is twice the player Wall is
If you had a choice right now between Fish taking a shot in the playoffs and Wall you’d choose Wall??? Wall has NO stats in the NBA, none… Look I’m not against having the kid on a rookie list saying i expect this guy to show this and this… But to have John Wall in the list of the best guards currently in the NBA but with no previous NBA game stats to back this conclusion up, it’s ridiculous… My prediction for John Wall is actually really promising, i do think he will be a top 20 guard if not better, but right now, right this current moment…. You place him on a potential list, not on a list that is based pretty much ALL on how the player performed last season….
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 20, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That's just silly
So you’d take any point guard with NBA games under their belt (the illustrious Smush Parker, Kevin Ollie, and Mardy Collins among them) over arguably one of the top ten prospects of the past decade? It doesn’t take a huge stretch of imagination to see where he’s going to be in the league, and a point guard with otherworldly athleticism like him is the principal beneficiary of practically the entire set of defensive rules right now. To somehow argue that Fisher is Wall’s superior in any aspect besides leadership (and Wall is no slouch there; he was nearly universally praised for his poise and decorum at Kentucky) is simply ludicrous.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Youre saying who i'd take
Whereas i’m telling you where they rank as NBA players… Im saying that right now, if i make a list of the best NBA point guards, John Wall simply CANNOT make it, based on what facts?? What him beating up on non-NBA players? Sure the kid can ball, he probably trumps half the guards on the list that Kelly made, but you can’t rank him there… Too many things can happen, too much is based on potential, what about Wall’s attitude? How does he react under pressure? How will his work ethic be once he has the millions of dollars? How is his defense against a player just as good or better than him?….
You’re asking whether I’d take Fisher over Wall, I’d probably take Wall, as you said, he is a number one pick and his potential is through the roof… But if you asked me to make a list of NBA point guards… Wall DOES NOT make it, he can’t… That is on the most basic of terms disrespect to all the NBA point guards, they haven’t even played this dude who is supposedly already better than them… That’s like comparing Lebron to Jordan… Sure potential is there, but nothing has happened yet for him to deserve it…
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 20, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
So your argument is essentially a mere technicality?
I really can’t describe how small the leap of faith is to envision how Wall fits into the NBA. If he’s half of what he’s been hyped up to be, he belongs in the top fifteen point guards. If he comes close to what we think he is (at least as a rookie), he should be in the top ten. If anything, Dwyer’s rating is already a conservative estimate of what Wall likely will become as a player. To make arguments based on such a (frankly) pathetically flimsy rationale like yours just befuddles me. It’s disrespectful? Please. Dwyer deserves a lot of crap for how these lists are turning up, but the absolute last thing he should be criticized over is calling John Wall a better NBA player than Derek Fisher when the answer to that question is painfully obvious.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I see your point
Yet i still cannot see how he can belong in a ranking made for NBA players… This is clearly not a ranking of how the players will go next season, because alot of explanations… such as Steve Nash’s for one, expect a drop off in production, Dwyer is clearly not ranking these players according to how good they will be, this is a ranking purely based on how they have gone last season… His shooting guard list is a mere mockery but still John Wall does not belong on a ranking of NBA players… It is not a hit on the kid, it is simply stating that if your list is based on previous statistics and ranks NBA players, there are NO stats to base your ranking on… again, Wall does not belong on this list, stop confusing what i am saying and thinking i have a lack of faith in the kid or that i am saying he isn’t a better player than Fisher… All i am saying is that Wall has not played an NBA game yet, he should not be on the best guards list, he should be an honourable mention anything, but you cannot have John Wall in there as if you have some reasonable statistics against some other NBA players to justify his ranking…
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 20, 2010 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Except he is an NBA player
And will be playing next season. That’s where the eligibility for Dwyer’s list begins and ends. It’s why he has Parker ranked high despite his poor season out of a belief of what he will produce next season. The list is as much a reflection of their previous play as it is Dwyer’s thoughts on where they will be in the future, which makes Wall extremely relevant, given that he’s essentially projected as Rose with more athleticism and better floor vision. Reasonable people can infer where Wall belongs in the league as ranked against other players without making assertions such comparisons are not allowed due to a technicality that supposedly prevents us from making the most basic of judgments.
Wall does not belong on this list, stop confusing what i am saying and thinking i have a lack of faith in the kid or that i am saying he isn’t a better player than Fisher
Err, okay. Here:
Fisher is twice the player Wall is
Fairly clear there.
Kelly put John Wall on the list and not Derek the intangible fish? Derek Fisher has solidified himself this season as one of the best role players in recent history, his regular season left much to be desired, but how can you put a list of 30 point guards and not take into consideration the one point guard who defied everything we thought we knew and gifted the Lakers a game they would not have won without him, how? How can Kelly justify this? Fisher has earned the right to be mentioned among the most reliable point guards in the league when it matters… And you want stats? Show me John Wall’s and I’ll show you Derek Fisher’s…
And yeah, I really don’t think you want to see Fisher’s stats, as they reveal the (accurate) picture that he was a steaming pile of garbage for the entire regular season before moving from “complete disaster” to “somewhat serviceable” throughout the playoffs. You’ve framed this initially as a Fisher vs Wall discussion and have eluded the point since. Whether you intended this is or not is rather irrelevant given this is how you worded it.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Fisher is definitely twice the player
He has at least played an NBA game and been a vital part of a recent championship..
If you believe that Wall is all that then fine i will mention his stats… Wall averaged against non-NBA players 16.6 points, 6.5 assists, 32% 3 point shooter, 4.3 rebounds, 1.8 steals and 0.5 blocks… However if you compare his statistics racked up against non-NBA players to the stats of some of those ranked below him on the Dwyer list and you’ll realize that stats speak otherwise… Mo Williams shoots better from the field, scores only a point less, has a better assist to turnover ratio rendering Walls extra assist average pointless… Aaron Brooks scores more, shoots at a higher 3 point % and similar field goal percentage, his assist to turnover ration is higher than Walls…. Rodney Stuckey pretty much has identical stats, except he shoots only one shot from the 3 point line so has a much lower percentage from the 3 point line than Wall…. I can still go on to show you how similar their stats are yet one category of players have racked up these stats against the elite and one has not…
Infact stats aside if you want to talk about Wall as a player and have seen him play regularly, some aspects of his game will suffer in the NBA… His shot is not reliable, his turnovers are far too high and really deflate his assist numbers, he is only 6 ft 4 so as athletic as he is do you really think he could get those easy points under the ring (most of his points are exactly that) against the NBA giants? He obviously can’t hang onto the ball in college so how will he go against the speedier guards? If anything, his stats and if you have watched him definitely do not indicate a guy who will quickly dominate in the NBA… Will he directly be the cause of ESPN highlights? Sure… Will he be a good player in his first year? I would hope so after all this hype… But if he had his Kentucky stats in the NBA he would not be in the top ten guards, yet at the same time, you think he can hang onto those stats in the NBA?
And about Fish’s stats, yeah sure they don’t compare to John Walls non-NBA stats, yet compare his stats to Ty Lawson, Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holiday etc… And you will see he wasn’t that much worse than any of them and in the end of the day why should Fish be ranked ahead of them? He was a vital key of a championship and none of the others were…. If Kelly is ranking based only on the regular season then these rankings are as useless as Lebron’s regular season stats…
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 21, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
He has at least played an NBA game and been a vital part of a recent championship.
And Robert Horry is better than Karl Malone, which is basically what you’re arguing for here.
Comparing Wall’s college stats against NBA stats is a rather pointless exercise, seeing as 1) Wall’s speed and athleticism matter way, way more in a league in which defensive rules make it very difficult to stop good penetrating point guards as versus the rampant zones in college; 2) NBA offenses, especially Flip Saunders’, are infinitely more complex and effective than their college counterparts and correspondingly improve their players; and 3) most college stats (with a few exceptions like rebounding that are more based on athleticism) rarely transfer to the NBA and there’s a ridiculously long history of top five picks that vindicated seemingly poor college stats because scouts (rightly) noted that they were NBA ready. Trying to make a comparison like this simply doesn’t work.
As for Wall the player, his turnovers may be high (he’ll be a rookie guard after all), but his floor vision is pretty well established, he’s far more athletic than nearly all of his counterparts along with a huge body for a point guard, and he’ll be extremely difficult to keep out of the paint with again, NBA rules that heavily favor penetrating guards. I find the notion that he’ll fail to be consistently effective off a Blatche or McGee pick (especially the latter, as summer league demonstrated their nice rapport) with Arenas on the wings somewhat laughable.
And about Fish’s stats, yeah sure they don’t compare to John Walls non-NBA stats, yet compare his stats to Ty Lawson, Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holiday etc… And you will see he wasn’t that much worse than any of them and in the end of the day why should Fish be ranked ahead of them?
Well, we can do this comparison. No problem.
Fisher: 38.0 FG%, 34.8 3P%, 49.9 TS%, 22.5 assist ratio, 8.7 TO ratio, 4.3 rebound rate, 11.0 points/40 min
Lawson: 51.5 FG%, 41.0 3P%, 60.0 TS%, 27.6 assist ratio, 11.1 TO ratio, 5.4 rebound rate, 16.5 points/ 40 min
Lowry: 39.7 FG%, 27.2 3P%, 53.6 TS%, 30.5 assist ratio, 11.6 TO ratio, 8.6 rebound rate, 15 points/40 min
Holiday: 44.2 FG%, 39.0 3P%, 52.6 TS%, 28.2 assist ratio, 15.7 TO ratio, 6.4 rebound rate, 13.3 points/40 min
So yeah, Lawson simply annihilates Fisher in every single statistical category save TO ratio, and given that Fisher basically stands in a corner and waits to be spoon fed an open shot (which he often missed in large amounts last year) while Lawson initiates an offense, that difference is largely irrelevant. Lowry has a higher TS% by virtue of superior free throw shooting (and getting to the line an awful lot more) on top of not shooting that many threes and is by far a better playmaker per his assist ratio. On top of that, Lowry is probably a top five defensive player at his position while Fisher is effectively a doormat nowadays. This holds true for Holiday, a solid defensive player who got better over the course of his rookie season, and he beats Fisher in most of the major categories save TO ratio (as again, Holiday was a rookie guard after all). As for the “he was a vital cog on a championship team” argument, it doesn’t really hold water here given that all three were (with the exception of Lowry this summer, but I digress) on their rookie contracts and didn’t really have a choice of what team to produce on.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Comparing college stats to NBA stats is just dumb.
Ben R. did a pretty good job explaining that but missed one point; in college a game is only forty minutes AND the shot clock is nine seconds longer. That means significantly less possessions, which means a drop-off in stats.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
Oh come on,
it’s unfair to call him biased.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
I just call him a piece of shit......
just like i call a duck a duck. Pretty simple stuff with me :)
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Aug 20, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I just saw his article on the best SG's.
Number 1 should have been a given.
He went with Wade. ’Nuff said about his NBA knowledge.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
I knew from a mile away he would do that
And actually isn’t it funny, read his description of Kobe…
You can rant and rail and tell me once again that I’m looking for attention or trying to create waves, but Kobe Bryant is coming off a year that saw him drag an injured leg and back around, and he’s still got a bum index finger on his shooting hand
Oh yeah Dwyer totally isn’t looking for attention… Why mention it?….. Also he sighted injuries and age as a reason Kobe is slipping down, yet he had no problem putting Chris Paul, who missed half a season with an injury as number one???? He lacks consistency in everything he has written in these lists…
It's deep how you can be so shallow
by Pegasus_Floats on Aug 20, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The ironic thing being
That he lists D Wades numbers which are sure to suffer with LeBron and Bosh ….Then has the nerve to say that Kobe has a good team and thus doesnt need to go out and put up numbers anymore /boggle…
"You cannot attain and maintain physical condition unless you are morally and mentally conditioned. And it is impossible to be in moral condition unless you are spiritually conditioned. I always told my players that our team condition depended on two factors / how hard they worked on the floor during practice and how well they behaved between practices." "What you are as a person is far more important that what you are as a basketball player." - John Wooden
That would be "STFU, Doc Rivers"
Check it out.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
"ANY ONE WNAT SOME OF THIS MONEY, IN IF YOU WANT SOME COME ON IN GET SOME" - the Legendary LEWIS MONROE
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