Player Report Card: Derek Fisher
by DexterFishmore on Jul 30, 2010 9:30 AM PDT
in Editorial
323 comments
This is the next in our series of Player Report Cards, in which we evaluate and assign a grade to the performance of each member of the 2009-10 Los Angeles Lakers. Up today is His Intangibleness, Derek Fisher.
At some point in the middle of this past NBA season, a great man wrote, "If Derek Fisher is re-signed by the Lakers, I will burn this city to the ground." That great man was me. Here we are in late July, and not only have the Lakers re-signed Derek Fisher, but they've committed to pay him for three more years. Unless the Lakers trade him before then, which they won't, or he fails to exercise his third-year player option, which he won't, Fish will be on the Laker payroll when he's 38 years old. And yet, the city of Los Angeles still stands, unincinerated and not even a little crispy around the edges. What happened?
For one thing, I probably never intended to carry out my threat of mass devastation. I've only committed arson three or four times in my life, and it's always a pain to get the materials together. Also, I live in Los Angeles and couldn't figure out how to burn everything down while leaving my own refrigerator box opulent home intact. The plan was flawed from the beginning.
More to the point, Game Three of the NBA Finals happened. That was the night Fish saved the Lakers' season and forced even the most committed of his detractors to revisit their criticisms of the man. Just when we were ready to give Fish his long-awaited Viking funeral and move on to the next era of Laker point guards, he pulled out another crazy act of clutchness. As a reward, he'll be hanging around until 2013 at the earliest, so in the meantime, we might as well sort out what we think of him.
Fish played in and started every game this year, whether in the regular or postseason. His minutes were down about three per game in the regular season but popped right back up in the playoffs. He played in and started every game in 2008-09 as well, and he would've done it in 2009-10 except that the league suspended him a game in the second round of the playoffs for clobbering Luis Scola. Whatever else his skill set might lack, no one can argue that Fish doesn't show up for work. The guy's indestructible.
I'll get around to lavishing praise on Fish for his Game Three manliness, but let's not forget what he was in the regular season. For over six months, his performance on the court was stupendously awful. On offense, he was asked to do little more than wait beyond the arc for Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol to find him for an open look, but when those looks came his way, he was terrible at knocking them down. His three-point accuracy, 41% two seasons ago and 40% last year, took a steep dive down to 35%. That's bad enough, but things got even uglier when he took two-point shots. According to HoopData, Fish made converted less than 60% of his attempts within 15 feet of the basket. He couldn't even get to a 40% success rate when he was literally shooting at the rim.
Far too often, Fish couldn't wait another damn second to jack up a missed shot. For a player who's spent most of his career running the Triangle offense and whose value is presumed to reside in (all together now) "intangibles," he takes a maddening number of ill-considered shots early in offensive sets. According to 82games.com, over a third of his attempts this past year came in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock. Since the Lakers aren't a fast-breaky team, and the Triangle is supposed to begin with a pass into the post and only later (if at all) a pass back out to the arc, that stat is a problem. It bespeaks an alarming tendency on the part of a veteran leader to break off plays and deny touches to the likes of Pau and Andrew Bynum. When Pau and others complain that the offense needs to flow through the post more often, it's not just Kobe they're talking about.
And then there's Fisher's defense. He's never been an elite lockdown guy, to put it gently, and age is steadily sapping him of any remaining lateral mobility. When guarded by Fish, opposing point guards rang up a PER of 18.7. According to Basketball Prospectus, players to whom Fish was assigned produced offense 18% better than their usual rates. Pretty much any objective measure you want to use confirms that Fish is a serious defensive liability, which we know in any case just by watching him.
You can see, can you not, how a man might be driven by all this to threats of pyromania?
Judged as a whole, Fish's playoff performance was a mixed bag. As expected, he had big probs trying to contain Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams. On the other hand, he was decent enough guarding Steve Nash in the Western Conference Finals, and his D against the Celtics' shooting guards in the NBA Finals didn't kill the Lakers. Fish shot well against OKC in the first round, only to see his outside touch slowly desert him again. He didn't make a single three against the Celtics... until Game Seven, when he drilled both of his attempts from distance. It was an uneven postseason for Fish. More good than bad, I suppose, even if he wasn't a world-beater.
Except for that time when he was.
Hell yeah. That was the joint. In Fisher's storied history of stirring playoff moments, this was the stirringest. When everything else the Lakers were trying to do had been put on lock by the Celtics' D, Fish went balls out. He destroyed the Boston crowd and snatched back the home-court advantage that the Lakers had lost in Game Two. Honestly, I didn't think Fish had it in him. It was truly an epic "fuck you" delivered straight to the grill of people like me who'd been riding him all year.
And that, in a nutshell, is the Derek Fisher Paradox. He's not what anyone could reasonably describe as a good player. He sucks life out of the Laker offense for long stretches and can't guard anyone younger than he is, which is basically everybody. But all those maddeningly nonspecific accolades thrown his way - about his leadership and fearlessness and unique capacity to connect with Kobe as a peer - I mean... damn if he doesn't live up to all of it, often just at the moment when you're ready to dismiss him for good.
For years now, these two competing interpretations of Derek Fisher have divided Laker fans. I've come to accept that neither is completely correct. Fish isn't some mystical Gandalf figure who can make up for his physical limitations with his command of intangibles. At the same time, he's not a total sinkhole, as I've sometimes argued on this site. He's a flawed player who's nonetheless made himself a necessary component of the Lakers in their current incarnation.
Next season, one imagines, Phil Jackson will continue to scale back Fisher's minutes. He'll remain a starter, but Steve Blake will command more than the 18 minutes per game given to Jordan Farmar the last two seasons. A 25-20 split is about what we should expect. Come playoff time, though, there's no doubt Fish will be back to playing 30 a game and will be on the floor for all crunch-time possessions. Until he proves that he can no longer rise to that role, I'm willing to concede that he's deserving of it.
Player Grade: C+.
Follow Dex on Twitter here.
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I hate to say I told you so...
It was truly an epic “fuck you” delivered straight to the grill of people like me who’d been riding him all year.
…but fuck it, I told you so.
Nice job, Dex.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
eh, didn't really seam like you "hated" to say that...
=-)
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
self-loathing is unerrated
"Lebron has the ball, dribbles down the court, splitting the Lakers defenders with 5 seconds left on the clock with the game on the line in the 2011 NBA Finals Game 7! Lebron pulls up from deep, in Kobe's face and drains the three pointer! HEAT WIN HEAT WIN!!! 89-88!!!!!
...BEEP BEEP BEEP...BEEP BEEP BEEP...
Then Lebron's alarm goes off and he wakes up and goes downstairs to eat a delicious breakfast made by his mom and Delonte West."
underrated?
"Lebron has the ball, dribbles down the court, splitting the Lakers defenders with 5 seconds left on the clock with the game on the line in the 2011 NBA Finals Game 7! Lebron pulls up from deep, in Kobe's face and drains the three pointer! HEAT WIN HEAT WIN!!! 89-88!!!!!
...BEEP BEEP BEEP...BEEP BEEP BEEP...
Then Lebron's alarm goes off and he wakes up and goes downstairs to eat a delicious breakfast made by his mom and Delonte West."
If Fisher's minutes get reduced to about 20 a night
And he rediscovers how to shoot at a ~37%+ clip from three during the regular season, I think I’ll complain a lot less next season.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
i second that
"Better learn not to talk to me. You shake the tree, a leopard's gonna fall out."- Kobe Bryant to JR Smith,who was talking trash, after dropping 49pts,10assits on the Nuggets in Game 2 of the '08 First round playoffs
We may question his ability, but never his "intangiblity".
I’d be happy to have him hit that clip during the playoffs. Like you said, I’m hoping the Lakers new acquisitions will let the starters play reduced minutes instead of having come back in to regain lost or shrunken leads. I think this, after a restful summer healing rather than Team USA commitments, will make for fresher legs and better shooting.
Lamar remains a bit if a concern because of his shoulder and little rest this off-season. But then of course he does tend to rest himself during the season.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
Hopefully Dex sees the humor in the phrase, "Like you said..."
Great breakdown of his Intangibleness, Dexter!
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
LOL @
Since the Lakers aren’t a fast-breaky team
by lakers are trouble on Jul 30, 2010 10:17 AM PDT reply actions
PUJIT!!!
"The only difference between a good shot and a bad shot is if it goes in or not."
- Charles Barkley
and OMFG!
(One Man Fastbreak Gaffs) Shannon and Odom, I’m especially looking at you.
by JustRuntheOffense on Jul 30, 2010 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about putting LO in there.
Watching him go coast to coast is a beautiful sight.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
by SoCalGal on Jul 30, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
True...
And almost beautiful enough to make you forget the straight-line charges down the lane. Almost.
by JustRuntheOffense on Jul 30, 2010 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
i don't like that one
how do you know if someone is saying OMFG as in oh my fooking god that was a great play or OMFG as in one man fastbreak gaffs? because i think it can get confusing in a game thread.
by lakers are trouble on Jul 31, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
The highlights never get old. One of my favorite layups ever!
Funny to see a flopping Celtic in every other highlight.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
by Joshua S on Jul 30, 2010 10:18 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
yea , and fish looks Bryant-esque in those highlights
seriously though , i see like 3 or 4 and-1s in there
"Better learn not to talk to me. You shake the tree, a leopard's gonna fall out."- Kobe Bryant to JR Smith,who was talking trash, after dropping 49pts,10assits on the Nuggets in Game 2 of the '08 First round playoffs
by madmaxx350 on Jul 30, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
when you see a "Baby" flop like that its hard not to blow a whistle
Now you know -- Manny Pacquaio
Facebook
Let this be a reminder to all of us; without competition, without that possibility (and realization) of failure, success would be meaningless. -- Zephid, FB&G
Some seriously varsity flops in there. A fart could blow them over.
Drawing the charge or making it look convincing is a fine art and Fish is a Renaissance master, the Celtics are a flea market knock-off.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
LOL yeah he is really the master
but i guess shannon (or anyone in the team) didnt enroll in his class. too bad
Now you know -- Manny Pacquaio
Facebook
Let this be a reminder to all of us; without competition, without that possibility (and realization) of failure, success would be meaningless. -- Zephid, FB&G
What do you expect, Fish have mastered the ‘flop’ for hundreds of millions of years. Our Derek Fisher does it through instinct.
by shoang1993 on Jul 30, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha! I guess Intangibles are a trait which have allowed Fish to avoid being a victim of Natural Selection.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
Ironic
that the 2 players (Derek Fisher and Ron Artest) we bad mouthed a lot during the regular season stepped up during Game 7 with their huge 3 pointers.
you forgot
Intangible Grade = A fucking super plus
If you wrong us, shall we not revenge? - William Shakespeare
by LOOOeee on Jul 30, 2010 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Fish deserves a higher grade than Farmar
Granted, he was pretty bad during the regular season. He still knocked down shots, but not as often as he should, and took more bad shots than he should in the triangle.
He showed up in the playoffs though. Every statistic increased. He had some truly clutch performances and had a couple of 20+ point performances that didn’t happen during the regular season. His leadership on and off the court can’t be overlooked either.
I’d give him a B-. He deserves a higher grade than his backup, especially with Fish’s clutch moments in the postseason.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot"-Kobe Bryant
by nyyrocks29 on Jul 30, 2010 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd agree with this
part of the issue is that this is what happens when multiple people are involved in the “grading”. I did Farmar at C+ and would put Fisher at B-. If Dex had written Farmar’s grade it might have been lower than what I was willing to give.
I definitely agree that I’d rate Fisher slightly higher than Farmar over the course of the season. Dex? What do you think?
Yeah, I'd agree with that
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 30, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree
fish should have gotten a higher grade. his intangibles alone are worth at least a B-.
by lakers are trouble on Jul 30, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The grade seems fair.
Like all tangibles, metrics and stats, they can’t account for intangibles, leadership and X factors. Grading on that curve, Fish is cum laude. Plus you have several teachers grading here anyway.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
didn't take into account that there is more than one writer
Apparantly one grader is tougher than the other, which I get.
"I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whether it's sitting on a bench waving a towel, handing a cup of water to a teammate, or hitting the game-winning shot"-Kobe Bryant
I agree also, higher than Farmar. Hell, I'd give him a B because he floored Scola. Last year.
That shit was epic.
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
by 99bc99 on Jul 30, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
definitely....
+1 (is definitely spelled right?……so drunk on margaritas right now)
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Jul 30, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I want margaritas!
(yes, definitely is spelled correctly)
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
im a warrior fan and absolutely hate fisher
but you have to give him credit for going hard every game and doing whatever he could, even though most of the time it was just flopping, drawing charges, and fooling refs. I dont think anybody saw the fourth quarter of game 3 coming… Im looking forward to seeing how he will split minuted with blake next year
"Don't mess with Moses!" -BFitz
23 > 24 - basic math
Warriors????
are they in the D-League? I don’t know that name.
=-) jk, jk
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Fish by definition
is at least a B player. Without him we would not have won this championship, which is not something we could say about the other players rated thus far. I don’t know a point guard in this league who could have done what he did in the 4th qtr of game 3. As one of the forever faithful Fisher disciples, I am preconditioned to overrate him. But how can you overrate a player who has on countless occasions proven he is able to will this team to wins by himself? Losing him this offseason would have been a huge mistake, and signing him to 3 years is how we can ensure he becomes Shaw’s assistant in waiting upon retirement.
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
by milldoo on Jul 30, 2010 11:13 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Chris Paul lightly taps you on shoulder
and whispers in your ear, “I know I was injured last year, but I’m freaking incredible in the clutch as a PG too.”
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.
Hi Brian
Hey Brian, nice article. I agree about the flopsmanship, that was pretty funny. You still playing ball these days? BTW this is Joel from Alla park, we used to play all the time at lunch.
by Joel Bibble Saxton on Jul 30, 2010 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
FUCK it
i give Fisher an A …he fukin carried us to championship and that’s all that matters
by anthonyoc on Jul 30, 2010 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
A
Fisher ! Fisher! Fisher! Viva Fisher, the Captain. Laker for life.
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
Farmar and brown should have both been C's
Fisher has to be graded higher then both since they were playing for his job but both weren’t able to gain phils trust
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on Jul 30, 2010 11:53 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Derek Fisher can retire when he's dead
(but hopefully he’ll stick around for a coaching gig after hanging it up)
Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...
I think you need to rephrase your post
Just thinking of fish slowly moving on court with the ball on one hand and a cane on the other made me fall off the couch in laughter. Ah, the unintended comedy. ;-)
"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O
i bet he'd still hit the dagger 3.
fish might get old but his intangibles will remain!
by lakers are trouble on Jul 31, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
oh definitely, lol
"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O
2 grades for fisher
Regular season – C+
Playoffs – B
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on Jul 30, 2010 11:55 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Playoffs count more
So total grade is a B or B+.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Well, we're now all but required to get 2K11
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/want-to-hear-champion-by-ron-artest-buy-nba2k11.php
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Frankly, all this talk about Fisher having “carried us to a championship” is uncertain at best. Yes, he did rescue us from the deepest depths of hell in game 3, but nobody can possibly predict how each of these games, and the postseason as whole, would have unfolded if we had a competent point guard on our roster. I was one of the people calling for his head all too frequently during the regular season, but I’m not ashamed to admit that I didn’t have any sort of “mea culpa” thoughts throughout the postseason, or even upon reflection after the Finals. There’s no denying that Fisher is absolutely cold-blooded to a ridiculous extent in clutch situations, but it appears as though this has managed to cloud many people’s judgment. Despite his brilliance in the fourth quarter of game 3, he still performed poorly in the Finals, especially from three-point range, which is inexcusable when one considers his role in the triangle. I’m confident in the fact that I’m as die-hard of a fan as anyone here, but I take certain measures to analyze and observe objectively, and from my point of view, Fisher is an extreme liability in every sense of the word. Obviously I love the guy and I greatly appreciate the role he has played in each and every championship season, but I still can’t bring myself to look past the obvious downsides to having an incompetent (in essentially every sense of the word) point guard starting on our otherwise championship-caliber team. As much as I may be prone to nostalgia, I was one of the select few who didn’t tear up at the idea of the Lakers not resigning Fisher this offseason, and I will continue to possess that attitude until he can prove me wrong, which, for the sake of the Lakers, I’m wholeheartedly hoping he does, but I’m not holding my breath.
agree with honduras BUT
i still give fukin Fisher an A just cus he’s a lakers and we won with him hahhahaha
i think you are over looking fisher's leadership role on this team
yes he’s gettin old, yes his skills are diminishing but the leadership he provides is irreplaceable. he has a knack for making motivating speeches at the most dire of times. and he’s a savvy vet that may not be one of the best, fastest, tallest, quickest players but he’s smart and knows basketball. he uses his basketball iq to position himself to draw charges. the mans a 1 man fastbreak stopper! one of the toughest little guys out there(they don’t call him “little rock” for nothing) and he’s also the only player that can actually talk to kobe and tell him to chill out. it’s not like the lakers over paid for him. i think he’s worth the 3+ mill he signed for.
by lakers are trouble on Jul 31, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
this
honduras37 i think we all agree that fisher generally sucks as a basketball player now, skill wise. What you’re forgetting are (say it with me) intangibles. He’s been around since Kobe’s rookie year, and they’ve been through a lot together. He was there for our original 3peat, only him and Kobe have that experience. You know he learned some things on the road to getting 5 rings, things that you can’t really teach and only come through experience. Also, he definitely makes an impact on the other guys when he’s on the floor, in terms of composure, self confidence, determination and things like that.
Overall I think everyone on the team respects him and is willing to listen to what he has to say. People might get mad at Kobe since I doubt he’s always the nicest guy when he’s pointing out something you’re doing wrong, but Fisher knows how to handle that and to really teach you what you’re supposed to be doing. Yeah, I wouldn’t want him as the team’s only PG, but if you consider Blake might actually be better than him skill wise at this point, then I think Fisher’s intangibles are definitely worth the money and that he can make a big difference in terms of winning or losing the ring.
Fischer biggest intangibleis being kobe's bff
sorry machine
"I’ve been in the league 14 years and I don’t think I’ve been called for a carry yet. It’s news to me," "I’ve never heard anyone complain about me carrying the ball. The best coach in the league Gregg Popovich didn’t have a problem with it last week."
OT
article on kobe’s 3-pointers throughout the 2010 playoffs: Kobe Dialing Long Distance in Playoffs. pretty interesting.
3peat.
by LAL32 on Jul 30, 2010 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Hrmm, Dex
And yet, the city of Los Angeles still stands, unincinerated and not even a little crispy around the edges.
Every time we win Championships LA gets a little crispy around the edges. A little crispy is fine, and Derek made sure this year was no different.
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
hey is that my car?
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
by shaqfor3 on Jul 30, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
D-Fish
We salute the file ringed fingers of awesomeness!
You all occupy a world dominated by Kobe Bryant, consider yourself fortunate.
*five (not file)
You all occupy a world dominated by Kobe Bryant, consider yourself fortunate.
by S Jay Bruin on Jul 30, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
AWESOME!!!
Some of the NBA schedule, namely “key” games, to be released Tuesday, with the entire schedule likely to be out on August 10.
3peat.
Not sure why that is getting you so excited… but…
I guarantee a Christmas match-up with either Boston or Miami.
hey, at least we get to know some of what's going on next year
including the full schedule on the 10th. new info is always good
3peat.
not to much to expect mid-summer...
at least team usa is going to be playing ball later this month
3peat.
Hope the Lakers win on Christmas this year
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 30, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Hope Ron Ron don't fall off the fricking stairs in a drunken stupor
Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...
by Mike1204 on Jul 31, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
aka Lakers vs Heat x-mas day
(surprised face)
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
you said "either Boston or Miami"
:p
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
I would be surprised if they went with Boston
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
simmons said he wanted
Boston at LA, then Miami at Cleveland. don’t know how christmas-y that would be…
3peat.
not very christmas-y
Miami at Cleveland would be funny just to see fan reactions but it would probably turn into a blowout. The good news though is that the Heat will likely play there 2 times this coming season.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
I want LA at Boston
Then it would be like Game 8
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 30, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
sounds good.
but looks like the grinch is going to steal christmas from cleveland
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
Let me guess
LAL-MIA on christmas day >_>
"Better learn not to talk to me. You shake the tree, a leopard's gonna fall out."- Kobe Bryant to JR Smith,who was talking trash, after dropping 49pts,10assits on the Nuggets in Game 2 of the '08 First round playoffs
if its HEAT-LAKERS on Christmas
CELTICS will again play the disrespect card. that is pretty good motivation for them
Now you know -- Manny Pacquaio
Facebook
Let this be a reminder to all of us; without competition, without that possibility (and realization) of failure, success would be meaningless. -- Zephid, FB&G
X-Mass day, my guess is
Boston at LAL
Orlando at Miami
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
I agree with most people
Fisher should get a B-.. He is our vocal leader and i cannot imagine Farmar getting the same grade as Fish.. or even Odom getting a higher grade then Fish…
as he should............
as he should, brother.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
what happened to your pic?
"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O
what do you mean?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
I posted earlier, but I wanted to introduce myself
Hai everyone!
I absolutely love this blog, and when I’m working (a summer job which, fortunately, does not entail much actual “working”) I spend an absolutely absurd amount of hours on here, and I feel as though I should do my part to contribute. That being said, kudos to Dex, C.A., Saurav and all the others, because together you’ve managed to create a literal one-stop shop that manages to satiate every single Laker-related urge that I have, even when I’m going through exceptionally painful offseason withdrawals. and I’m sure that thousands of people who visit this site, regardless of whether they frequently post, wholeheartedly agree with me. From the intelligent analysis to the LOLcats, it’s all great, and I just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate the work they put in on a daily basis.
Welcome!
Delighted to have you.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 30, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm glad you appreciate my work.
Though I must say I can’t take all of the credit. Just most of it.
Welcome to SS&R :).
LOL
Though I must say I can’t take all of the credit. Just most of it.
I’d like a word with you, outside please.
=]
Sweet 16
No, he eats those and won't share.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Definitely complicated, but it's always love...
…except when it comes to cookies.
Then it can be war.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
share + cookies in the same sentence
may be grammatically acceptable, but let’s try to be realistic… not gonna happen!
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
welcome...........
what took you so long?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
whats up, welcome
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Hola y bienvenidos a silverscreeandroll, ¿me entiendes español?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
SÃ, definitivamente. ¿Cómo está usted con fluidez español?
Yo no soy de España o México, por cierto. Soy de la India.
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
Me encanta la forma en que se puede decir mierda al azar en spamish sin que nadie sepa. Sólo un cheque pequeño antes de que el progreso en la locura, ¿alguien aparte de mà y bluexfalcon saben hablar español? Responder a este post si lo hace.
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
shit, it takes a long time to type in spanish
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
yo hablo español.
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 31, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
no no, nada de fresco
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 31, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
¿por qué?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
emmm, porque no :)
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 31, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
..incómodo silencio..
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
bastante incomodo
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 31, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Que paso con el francais, cambiamos al espanol?
I am much to lazy to use the accents, plus i dont really know them.
"They call me the Muffin Man"
by true_lakerfan on Jul 31, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
i agree with dex's grade
if fisher got a B, he deserves a full mid-level salary. and he did not get that. he’s a below-average guard that occasionally does amazing things in the post season.
what i do value about him, is the undeniable voice of leadership. seems like everyone respects the hell out of him, even kobe. that’s important for locker room chemistry.
On the court: C+ Locker Room Speeches: A+
by theshmoes on Jul 30, 2010 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
I don't care what the grade is damnit, A++++++++, just because of that three, the elbow to nash, and flopping like an abused animal.
Sorry, it pisses me off that no matter how much butt he kisses, he’ll knock down a three that’ll make you want to rip your heart out.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
LOL, poor guy. Gets under your skin, huh?
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Yes, it sadly does, I watched fisher play like shit for 82 games last season, but the last 23 games, he played like he was on top of the world
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
That's exactly why we love him.
He makes us crazy during the season, but comes through like a champ when it matters most.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Funny you mention that...
It seems like everyone on the Lakers besides Gasol has those “NOOOOOOOooooooooookayyy… nice”—moments.
- Odom has made a career of doing that. Heck, every time he shoots I cringe.
- I’ve never seen Artest shoot a shot that I felt comfortable with.
- Half the shots Kobe took in the finals had me screaming at the tv until they hit the bottom of the net.
- There’s been plenty of talk about the bipolar nature of Shannon Brown… and his WAKI moments
WALIT to BALIT sums up Fisher perfectly
- Sometimes Adam Morrison suits up, which is enough to draw a collective groan from all of Laker nation.
- Every time Bynum jumps my heart skips a beat
All props to Mitch for assembling a championship team, but he sure picked the best combination of guys to make you gray prematurely.
by JustRuntheOffense on Jul 30, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with almost everything you said.
Gasol has had some moments that make me want to slap him upside the head, but he’s too tall for me without a ladder. Every time he does that stupid flip or finger roll when he should put the ball in the net with authority I want to scream. It’s a wimpy move and it makes me angry.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
by SoCalGal on Jul 30, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL @ the ladder
I am willing to forgive Gasol for all of his WALL-E’s (Weak Ass Lefty Layups European-style) as long as he does that T-Rex roar with regularity.
by JustRuntheOffense on Jul 30, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
lmao at WALL-E's
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Whats a BALIT?
Formerly known as "akb24b"
"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."
"Lets go for for it again"- Kobe Bryant, 2010 Championship ceremony.
"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark
In that case, it should be "the" BALIT.
Not “a” BALIT.
Formerly known as "akb24b"
"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."
"Lets go for for it again"- Kobe Bryant, 2010 Championship ceremony.
"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark
i like it when ammo suits up
it means the lakers are killin it!
by lakers are trouble on Jul 31, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I love the intangibles Fisher brings...
… the only problem is he doesn’t bring too many, you know, tangibles.
but championship trophies are tangible!
If you wrong us, shall we not revenge? - William Shakespeare
by LOOOeee on Jul 30, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fisher is my favorite player on this Laker team!!
Although its hard to prove, I truly believe we wouldn’t be back to back champions without him.
Look at Orlando, he buried them with clutch shot after clutch shot which ultimately made game 6 a mere formality for the demoralized Magic. That 3point going up the court against Nelson was CRAZY!! Everything seemed lost at that point, but Fisher came up big once again.
Last year, if we didn’t win game 3 and went down 1-2, with two games left in Boston, we might have seen a very very different series. Fisher truly stepped up, like i’ve never seen a role player step up before.
GO LAKERS! GO FISHER! A FIVE TIME NBA CHAMP!
And go Ammo! A two time NBA champ!
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
Fisher's grade:
Postseason: A (4.0 points)
Regular Season: D (1.0 points)
Postseason weighted twice as heavily as regular season
4+4+1/3 = 3.0 = B
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
by Justin N. on Jul 30, 2010 2:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
the question is whether or not you rate players based on what you expect from them, or whether you grade them in accordance to some NBA-wide standard
personally when I think about player report cards at the end of the year I grade them all on an individual basis.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
There is no NBA standard for Fisher or his intangibles.
He’s a legend unto himself.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
I think of it more like
Postseason: B+
Regular Season: F
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 30, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
odom fisher pick and roll
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
Woj is conducting a massive LeBook burning.
Dude, your avatar is hilarious!
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Yes, that's the perfect grade right there.
I want Blake to get more minutes than Fish in the Reg. season. Blake will light it up from downtown season long and we’ll win a lot of games by blowouts.
really?
What was wrong with his postseason? I actually thought his defense overall greatly exceeded my expectations, not to mention his clutch performances in numerous games in addition to that commanding locker room presence. Again I guess it kind of depends on what sort of a standard you hold a player too. I hold player’s to their own standards that they themselves and the team create for them on a year-by-year basis.
F is a bit harsh in my opinion for the regular season. He wasn’t terribly below his career shooting %‘s. It’s definitely been Fisher’s worst regular season since returning to the Lakers, but F? Naw man.
I think overall in basketball analysis people tend to put far too much emphasis on the numbers. The reality of basketball is it’s not about what you average, it’s about scoring when you need to score. That’s why we love Kobe, after all.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
by Justin N. on Jul 30, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
also, I wanted to ask you about this:
“He sucks life out of the Laker offense for long stretches”
can you elaborate on that? I think Fish is one of the few players on the team that actually runs the triangle pretty well. He is definitely always looking to get the ball into the post and he can make the entry pass pretty well. Sometimes he takes some bad shots, but at the same time at least he doesn’t disappear entirely when he plays next to Kobe like Farmar and Shannon did. Fish generally stays within his role and competes hard at both ends. I can’t really think of any “long stretches” where Derek Fisher is killing the Laker offense other than maybe a few missed shots here and there. He certainly didn’t ruin possessions like Artest (somewhat understandable) on a regular basis.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
by Justin N. on Jul 30, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree that he’s always looking to get the ball into the post. He does so sometimes, but he takes a ton of early shots. “Sucking the life out of the Laker offense for long stretches” is probably an exaggeration on my part, but Fish doesn’t honor the Triangle nearly as much as he’s given credit for. Does he do so more than Farmar, Shannon and Artest? Yeah, probably, but that’s setting the bar incredibly low. For guy who’s spent the big part of his career in the Triangle, I expect better.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 30, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah
well yes it depends on whether you evaluate him in comparison to others or in and of himself. If you are going to dock him for his shooting numbers in comparison to the league though you should give him credit for the way he runs the offense better than all our other guards, even if it might not be up to a personal standard you have for him in your mind.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
That's an odd way of going about it
If he’s bad, he’s bad. If his personal best is mediocre when compared to the league, then we should view it as mediocre. Saying he ran the offense better than the rest of our point guards is like saying that Mbenga has better hands than Kwame. Sure, he’s better but the standard is so low as to make any praise in that regard rather meaningless.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
yarr I guess I didn't make my point clear
gotta go to work now, I’ll try to write something afterward
also imo Mbenga doesn’t have better hands than Kwame :)
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Disagree... Kwame can't even hang onto a Daco. Mbenga, he gots his Daco!
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
by deadmuse on Jul 31, 2010 5:28 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Justin. He messes up the offense in the regular season in abundance. (In postseason he turns it on, numbers don't lie people, Some say he doesn't and will never do that)
He always finishes games with less than 5 points and bricks 3’s and wide open ones too, which kills the offense. He runs it well, but Got Damn he needs to be way more efficient numbers wise, not triangle running wise. This is where it’s Blake’s time to shine. (And Fisher’s regular season D sucks, so yes F, maybe D)
Fish has to much pride to admit he "turns it on" *imo.*
It’s a no brainer, he knows he is old, he knows the reg. season is not the playoffs. He knows his legs can’t withstand playing the whole regular season as if it where the playoffs.
Maybe it’s something that turns on subconsciously and he doesn’t know or doesn’t acknowledge it, but the evidence is there, and the evidence states that he should be benched in the regular season OR at the least limit his minutes by a lot to let Blake play starter minutes in the regular season, which I like.
there are different circumstances now
Maybe Fisher will be more willing to concede playing time to a savvy (though still younger) veteran in Steve Blake this year, rather than the brash Farmar who never really figured things out last year.
by mildclubsauce on Jul 30, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Some say...he can score on three Celtics at once and that he has been banned in Utah.
All we know is…he’s called Fish!
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
by Joshua S on Jul 30, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
Besides those breakout performances
He wasn’t exactly a consistent performer in the playoffs, although his overall game did step up noticeably from his regular season performance. B+ seems like a pretty fair assessment.
As for the regular season, I’d give him an F as well — he was awful. Tons of bad shots, missing good shots, being unable to guard a chair on defense, and bad decision-making in general, especially for our supposed veteran presence.
The reality of basketball is it’s not about what you average, it’s about scoring when you need to score. That’s why we love Kobe, after all.
Except Kobe scores consistently otherwise and provides positive things in other areas in the meantime. Fisher provided almost nothing in his non-clutch moments in the regular season past running the offense better than Farmar and Brown, which wasn’t a tall order.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
yes
my point about kobe wasn’t that we give him a pass but not fish, it was that in the larger scheme of things he’s the best basketball player on the planet despite the fact that he doesn’t put up the best numbers. He’s not even top 5 in that department anymore. That’s because he scores when you need a score (and defends when you need to defend) which is what basketball boils down to at its core.
I really liked Fisher’s playoffs this season. Not only was he incredibly clutch in a few situations of the finals, but he carried the Laker offense for stretches too. Was it against Phoenix one game where he had like 10 points in the first quarter when the Lakers couldn’t seem to get anything going? Call me crazy, but I guess I like Ron Artest’s line of thinking when it comes to Fisher…
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
by Justin N. on Jul 30, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Being awful for 90% of your playing time
And sort of not-sucking for 5% and being outlandishly clutch for the other 5% doesn’t excuse him for sucking 90% of the time. Kobe isn’t scoring all the time, but he’s impacting the game in ways without scoring — decent help defense, good passes, cuts, and in general, following the offense well. Sure, he dials up the effort level when he’s needed for and we praise him as such, but at least for Kobe, you can point to ways in which he contributes elsewhere when he’s not taking over the game. Fisher does nearly none of that past running the offense somewhat well from time to time. Basketball is certainly impacted by “scoring at the right time” but the other times in which Fisher is being annihilated on defense or throwing up horrible shots have equal weight to his positive moments.
As for Fisher’s good playoff performances, that’s why I agree with Dex’s B+ grade — he was definitely solid in those situations. That doesn’t mean we ignore the other times in which he was bad either.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Well, he was really bad on defense against OKC. He had some shooting slumps here and there. On the whole, more good than bad – hence my B+ – but I reserve A’s for guys who played like series MVPs against one or more opponents, and Fish, for whatever nice moments he had, was never close to that level.
And I’d argue that his shooting numbers in the regular season were indeed unacceptably bad. His True Shooting was below 50% (league average: 54%) and his Effective Field-Goal Percentage was a really terrible 45%. For a guy whose only job on offense is to hit open shots, and who gets plenty of them because of the guys he plays with, those numbers are just horrible.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 30, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough, we seem to differ in the manner in which we evaluate players
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
also, in defense of Fish's defense in the OKC series
it was, in large part, a schematic problem that was the coaching staff’s fault. Kobe should have been on Westbrook the whole time. The reality was though that the Laker’s vastly underestimated OKC and specifically westbrook because it was a first-round match-up against a first-time playoff team. Fisher’s defense in the Boston series was solid because he was our best Ray Allen defender while Kobe took Rondo duty.
On the flipside it’s pretty amazing what he did to Deron Williams and Steve Nash.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
by Justin N. on Jul 30, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
Fisher’s defense in the Boston series was solid because he was our best Ray Allen defender while Kobe took Rondo duty.
Completely agree. Fisher, quietly, ran through every screen Boston gave, muscling and elbowing his way into Allen’s grill, basically running Allen out off his own game, which was looking dominant. Allen’s older legs caught up to him, and this was largely due to Fisher’s pugnacious, single-minded drive to stay with him. Any less experienced, any less determined a player probably would not have had the effect on Allen that he had. It was full 24 second clock defense. Allen ended up trading elbows at times, instead of floating free on jumpers. This was invaluable because it reduced the true Celtic offensive factors by 1/3. Kobe cut the head off, and it was only up to Artest to corral Pierce. KG tried to show up, and couldn’t. The Shrek crew tried to pull of a miracle, and it couldn’t be done. It was expert Jackson chess cornering a King…checkmate. But it could NOT be done if Allen retained the ability to heat up in one quarter or another. Perhaps even more than the game 3 4th which was brilliant, it was Fisher’s will on Allen that ALSO turned the series, and made the Celtics manageable.
And yes, it was surprising what he did on Nash and Williams.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 30, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I also think
that you (justin) and dex are using different grading standards. Fish seems to be not only comparing to the player’s own personal standard, but also comparing him to what you could expect from an ‘average’ player, and what you would expect from a good player.
Also, I think our best Ray Allen defender might’ve been sasha, he looked really good working those screens, but you’re right that there’s no way sasha could do it for extended minutes without becoming a total liability in other facets of his game.
Also, I like your signature. Have you seen Guy Ritchie’s Revolver? I think you might love it.
I agree Justin
it’s not what you average but doing what you can to get that win, not exactly what you said but it’s close, Kobe gives the Lakers what they need to win, thats all that matters.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
off topic but from the credits
http://dimemag.com/2010/07/the-nbas-5-most-clutch-free-throw-shooters/
its amazing how kobe ranks in there considering he is “only” 84 percent FT shooter and all others on the list are 90% FT shooter except Dirk who is 87%.. But when it comes to clutch FT kobe will sink his for sure.
he sucked in game 7
but pretty much every other game in the playoffs, he was automatic at the FT line.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
I think its fair to say
everyone but Artest sucked in game 7, until the last 6 minutes of the game.
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.
Haha, you called yourself a "great man"
I didn’t know you were so humble.
Magic made me a Laker fan.
Is there a more reliable person than Dex in the universe?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Brian Shaw
"Let the Hunt for Six Begin."-Derek Fisher
"Anyone crazy enough to mess with me is crazy enough to play with me." -Kobe Bryant
No at the Lakers Nation theyre saying Delonte West is close to being a Laker
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 30, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
http://thelakersnation.com/blog/2010/07/30/lakers-close-to-signing-delonte-west/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 30, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
It loses all credibility with this statement:
This move would certainly give the Lakers a way to match up with the Miami Heat and stop LeBron in the case that the two teams do actually end up meeting in the Finals next season.
Formerly known as "akb24b"
"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."
"Lets go for for it again"- Kobe Bryant, 2010 Championship ceremony.
"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark
Yeah i saw that. Haha yes we cannot matchup with the Heat without Delonte West
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 30, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
If Delonte gets brought in he won't be playing, he'd get waived.
"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden
Well, this assumes we'd sign him for the minimum
Minny hasn’t officially waived him yet to preserve him as a possible trade chip, but if any team expresses interest in signing him, I think they waive him as a courtesy.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
0 Points 0 Assists 0 Rebounds 23 Minutes Played
That was Fisher’s stat line from the Nov 13 game in which Denver killed us (79-105). I had the unpleasant fortune of being courtside at that game. I was ready to send the lynch mob on Fisher after that one.
Rich cat sez..
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Glad I didn’t. I really enjoyed watching him through out the playoffs. Good or bad, that little gnome never stopped trying.
FISHER I'm glad his ckutchness will be back
his season was a C+ I’ll agree with Dex but his postseason gets a B+ for being their in every big moment the Lakers needed.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
LOL @ the guy in the picture holding his head
He already knows whats comin.
"I don't mind being the goat. I don't mind being the villain, hated. I've been that my whole career, so it's not like that's anything new. I don't mind people jumping on the bandwagon or jumping off. I just focus on playing the game." -Ron Artest
by Hdg23 on Jul 30, 2010 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I couldn't find a way, in my heart, to disagree with you any more than I do right now.
Honestly, its a Friday evening, and I sit here and read this sacrilege concerning Derek Fisher, and I feel saddened. Look, Dex, maybe you truly can’t appreciate intangibles, and maybe I’m just going to have to accept that, maybe this website and other analysts won’t ever appreciate what Fish brought to us this year, and years before.
But, to me, to Fish, I bestow an A. Solid A.
Derek Fisher, you were part of the team every single time a major test was given, be it against OKC, PHX, UTA, or BOS, and never were you found wanting. I salute you, and heartily disagree with anyone who would choose to ignore not only your staunch veteran inspirational leadership, but your willingness to take (and MAKE) the big shot.
A
-J. O’Neal
by Jevon O on Jul 30, 2010 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Allen, Davis, and Gar got fucking punk'd on the last play on the video
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
by smart_guy on Jul 30, 2010 7:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That's 750 pounds going down on Fisher.
Epic.
Formerly known as "akb24b"
"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."
"Lets go for for it again"- Kobe Bryant, 2010 Championship ceremony.
"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark
I know right
And he still made the shot. Crazy.
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 30, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
that was so sick
when pau and fish were screaming at each other. and i was screaming at the tv lol. fuckin epic
by lakers are trouble on Jul 31, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
what's even funnier is the look on Big Baby's face at the same time....
It’s like WTF are you two screaming at……….damn, shut up already.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Everyone who wants to give Fisher an A...
What grade do you then give Pau? What grade do you give to Kobe?
People are free to disagree with my grading, of course. But if you really give Fish an A, don’t you bust the curve just a little bit? Even if you say, “Give Pau and Kobe each an A+,” do you genuinely think Fish is just one small notch below those guys? Because I don’t think that’s a tenable argument.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
I'm all for B-
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
by smart_guy on Jul 30, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I give Pau an A- or an A
I judge players based on several criteria, one of them being how they performed under pressure. Matter of fact, that is one of the biggest criteria with which I judge my players. Just like in real life, tests matter more than regular homework. Pau did his homework, mind you, and he turned it in on time and often, but he gets the jitters when it comes to tests. And this held pat throughout the playoffs. Yes, it may seem I’m being hard on Pau, mind you, but I still gave him an A. See, Pau could have done more. Pau is in his prime. Pau is being argued (wrongly, might I add) as the best big man in the NBA. Pau was rated by Dwyer as outplaying Kobe throughout the playoffs. Problem is, Pau was outplayed quite often. Pau disappeared for long stretches, due to PAUs nervousness; to Pau’s inability to get off a high quality shot (mind you, Pau needs to be able to get his shot off somewhat easily because he was Taller than 90% of his opponents). Yes, I love Pau, yes, Pau played well, but he didn’t play against the Deron Williams and Rajon Rondos of his position. He didn’t play against the Steve Nashs of his position except when he played Stoudamire; and Stoudamire drug him through the mud.
Notwithstanding, they both hit big, Big, BIG shots. Accordingly, the Lakers starters absolutely carried them throughout the playoffs. Every. Single. Laker. Starter. Thats how bad our bench was, that’s why our bench was littered with D’s and F’s and C-’s. But, our starters… they won us a two peat.
They deserve A’s, I say, and I think you see this, because we were able to win a championship with a bench as thin as one of those Extra-Pleasure-Plus Trojans ©
Just sayin’
I think it's obvious that
the reason several here disagree is the way Dex graded and the way you (and Justin, for that matter) grade the players. Dex (and C.A.) came up with the rating based on overall performance, like a final grade in school, while you are coming from a standpoint of rating at the important moments (i.e., when the game is on the line), how the player performed during that time. So, it would be hard for you to come to an agreement with Dex.
"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O
Additionally
I’m pretty sure that the ratings are based upon projected production. No one is going to argue that Gasol should earn a better grade by virtue of his greater production. But then again, no one expects Fisher to put up numbers. Just by virtue of going beyond the call of duty (Clutch shots, intangibles) Fisher deserves at least a B-. And after the Game 3? I’m willing to bump that up by means of an apology for all the crap he’s taken.
Kobe and Pau are superstars, and like their treatment on whistles, they should be graded on a different scale. Superstars are supposed to come up big in the big moments. Role players, while it’s nice to expect them to step up and hit the big shot, are not the guys who can be expected to do that night in night out (well at least MOST role players… we’ve been blessed with some extremely clutch role players over the years… Horry, Foxy, Shaw, Fisher to name a few)
So the upshot of all this? I think it’s okay to give Fisher an A to A- without taking away from Gasol or Kobe’s contributions.
by JustRuntheOffense on Jul 30, 2010 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting analogy.
They deserve A’s, I say, and I think you see this, because we were able to win a championship with a bench as thin as one of those Extra-Pleasure-Plus Trojans ©
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
by SoCalGal on Jul 30, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do think Fish is just a notch below those guys
Fish brings Leadership. Leadership that Kobe needs, and absolutely adores. He admires Fish, and we all know this. Fish knows when to speak, and when to be quiet. I’m sorry, but I cannot ignore this. When Pau was running his mouth to the media during the regular season, Fisher was doing his job, preparing for the playoffs. Fish hit the biggest shots, and Fish played gritty ball. As a vet, Fish’s mind was keen and on point. I love the way he interviews, I love the way he tangles physically with his defender, I love the way he shoots and makes his running shots, and I love his gritty, refusing to quit, defense. Yes, he gets burned, but never when it matters. When it matters, it’s Fish hitting that shot, stealing that ball, securing that rebound; and I’ll be sure to remember that.
Yes, he gets burned, but never when it matters.
I somehow think if he gets burned 8/10 times, the eight times he was burned and something negative happened have a lot more weight than the two times you remember him not being burned. We can praise Fisher for his professionalism and clutch play, but to treat his negatives as something to be blatantly disregarded is just wrong here. He’s a fantastic leader and a great people person. That’s undeniable. What also is undeniable is that he’s a below average player a good chunk of the time.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I think what Phil Jackson knows is that “a good chunk of the time” isn’t a very important measure. He repeatedly lets players slide into “a good chunk of the time” of ineffectiveness (Artest is a good example of this), with ONE thing in mind: How are you going to perform at THAT moment, or THOSE moments when everything will turn, the moments that the team as a whole will take itself to, moments of opportunity. It is really that wide view, that non-quantifiable view, that makes Phil not call time outs for 90% of the time other coaches would, and also that separates him from almost every coach of his generation. There is one thing on Jackson’s mind: How do we bring this thing home? He sculpts it from a very great distance. And it is for that reason that Fisher is every bit of Jackson’s kind of player as Kobe is, a player who when the moment is there can TURN things.
Alot of times when players play well all the time, or most of the time, they actually don’t know what to do when they stop playing well in moments of pressure. The bottom falls out. James even experienced something of this in the playoffs this year, when the Celts took the oxygen out of his game.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 31, 2010 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm all for D+ overall, counting the playoffs and finals or else I would say F....
I bet If Blake played with us last year these intangible shots wouldn’t even be necessary if he could just make the wide open 3’s that were/are given to him. A great/good 3 point shooter PG makes destroying a zone or the doubling-the-superstar defense that much easier (Phoenix, Boston at times doubling, tripling Kobe) The game is so much easier when you just shoot and make those damn three’s, no need for difficult shots(unless you are Kobe, which is acceptable) if you hit those 3’s or wide open j’s,. imo. Damn this is why I wanted us to get Morrow, he would thrive because he would be left open a lot with the Lakers, he’s like Ray Allen without the D.
Playoffs count more
So with weighting, make it a B or B+.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
when the lakers win championship
everyone gets an A cus that’s all that matters baby
ok seriously tho…fisher gets A, gasol A+, Kobe A+ infinity, rest of team A-
anthonyoc, lets say we had Kwame Brown at C instead of Bynum and we won the chip.
Does Kwame Brown deserve an A? I bet we would win because Bynum played very limited and can be compared to Kwame’s stat line, when injured of course. When Bynum’s not injured he’s an All-Star. I would give Bynum a D+ but since he was injured and it’s not really his fault I give Bynum a B.
Flawed grading scale of yours, the idea is to get better after you win a chip because other teams will adjust and get better players than what they had, etc. If you stand pat you are asking to lose the throne imo. But we did get better, way better, regarding the Bench, and Blake.
Bottom line, Fisher isn’t getting any better or younger.
Enough BS, an “A” is out of the question.
I think he deserves a better grade than Farmar
B- is fine.
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
it's hard to grade intangibles anyway, isn't it?
so whatever you want to grade you decide to give him based on your criteria, whatever.
Magic made me a Laker fan.
dang this late night writing
so whatever grade you want to give him is fine
intangibles=hard to grade
Magic made me a Laker fan.
so we are close to signing Delonte West, thought on this?
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 30, 2010 10:17 PM PDT reply actions
DO NOT WANT, MAJORLY
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
We dont want to become the Thuggy Lakers..
Many people already accuse Kobe of being a thug. Ron Artest was once considered a thug. Matt Barnes, well you know that story, and now fucking Delonte West?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
we're starting to look like denver
only thing is that we’re a championship team. :)
by lakerlover2by4 on Jul 31, 2010 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
we're pretty gangster
except we got pao, sasha and luke LMAO. Ratliff probably takes too many vitamins to be a G
I'll believe it when I see it
Even if it happens, he is probably 3rd to last off the bench, before the rookies unless the Machine gets traded
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."--Cormican on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM PDT
Um no
The guy looks like he has hepatitis… Considering all his tattoos, I wouldn’t put it past him too…
If the eyes are the windows to the soul, then these sunglasses are the curtains telling you to keep the fuck out!!!
by angelofdeath on Jul 31, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
gahhh
my baseball team is making me depressed.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
I know
Lock Ned Colletti out of the office until after 1 PT!!!
If the eyes are the windows to the soul, then these sunglasses are the curtains telling you to keep the fuck out!!!
by angelofdeath on Jul 31, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
what's your baseball team?
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 31, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
what baseball team do you root for?
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Jul 31, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
bleh
a lot of times I hate fisher, but he’s saved our ass so many times its ridiculous, and he is just so damn likable. I think that the bad play he had and heat he took this season made it that much sweeter for him and us fans that he saved our team probably from elimination. ultimately you have to love him. with a passion that burns deep within your soul like the white hot intensity of the eternal flames of a thousand suns.
In Soviet Russia, LA beats you.
Dude
with a passion that burns deep within your soul like the white hot intensity of the eternal flames of a thousand suns.
Are you fucking shakespeare or something?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
You Lie
If you were Shaking Sphears, then you would have said something like “Completely true, with the conviction so tremendous that I could hold it to my will no matter what happens to this bodily peice of mater”
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
**matter
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Alright I gotta tell you that you've misspelled the word "piece" twice today. Cut it out.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Where?I see one but not two.
Oh yeah just to annoy you: peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice peice.
Oh yeah, here’s your cookie for having to sit through all that.
(/Turns Back and injects poison into cookie)
(/Watches eagerly as SoCalGal gobbles down cookie)
(/Laughs a crazy, maniacal laugh over SoCalGal’s dead body)
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
You are nothing but a cockaroach to a giant's foot
You will never stop me from reaching the Destiny.
(/stomps down bluexfalcon)
(/laughs the same crazy maniacal laugh)
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Are you expressing your fear at your new commander
Or are you just in awe of the sheer greatness of his majesty smart_guy?
(/thinks in mind: “Look at me now, Lebron!”)
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Thats a freaky avatar
pick a new one
how would you like your avatars today, sir?
Lemme suggest a theme… funny/laker related
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Do these fit your fancy, sir?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Anyways here are your links
http://sportsdemotivation.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/victor-fraile.jpg
http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/k/kobe_bryant_karate_kick-13286.jpg
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
http://twitter.com/smart_guy24
Fisher = weak link
He just is. He is horrible at everything he does except effort. If we had a replacement level PG in there, there is no doubt in my mind that we would be much better than with Fish, even if Fish is playing at his best.
It has been said over and over, but his defense is non-existant, his athletic ability is YMCA league level, his shot has left him, he never had any handles or passing ability. Look guy is a liability any way you look at it. And he got an extension for 3 years? Are you Fing kidding me? This new contract for Fish was Luke Walton level bad.
We need to move on and now that’s not going to be possible. The problem is selective memory. Since Fish hit some big shots, we forget about the 100X more crap he did horrible.
In my opinion this weakness is really starting to hurt this year. Hope beyond all hope that Sasha steps up into the PG position, along with Blake, they move fish over to the bench. But the way PJ coaches, it may never happen.
fisher should be backup
he’s old but can contribute as sub comiing off the bench…his leadership skill is still invaluable tho
Interesting. Let's bring this up with Kobe and the Lakers management.
I’m sure they’d listen and tear up his contract if we wail long and hard enough.
But seriously though, I trust the GM and the coaching staff know what they’re doing, and I’m pretty sure they’re well aware of Fisher’s limitations and weaknesses… they’ll work their way around it.
Just because he got a 3 year contract doesn’t mean he’ll be hogging up a majority of the PG minutes for the whole extent of that deal. They’re going to have Blake work for his contract and soak up those minutes as soon as he gets his bearings on the team… he is getting paid more overall anyway.
yea i just don't get why everyone thinks leadership and intangibles grow on trees.
we all know how fish does alot of times. thats why the lakers signed steve blake. that’s why the lakers are paying blake more than they are paying fisher. i think it’s pretty obvious the lakers are gonna be giving blake a bunch of fisher’s minutes to preserve him for the playoffs. and i think the lakers did the right thing by keeping fish. everyone respects and listens to him especially kobe. he has a great, positive locker room presence.
by lakers are trouble on Jul 31, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I never forgot the anoying stuff Fish did in the reg. season like: let every PG blow past him...
Or getting a crucial buzzer beater shot blocked by melo when Kobe was open and obviously unguarded by melo. And most importantly havin a weak-as.s statline and many bricked 3’s.
Dayum, did you look it up or did you remember? i don't remember every detail, but still, Gasol, or even Artest.
Especially when a longer guy like Melo is guarding you and you are a PG don’t try to get cute, and he got blocked. That little fact there won’t sway my assertions regarding Fish.
ahah i remembered
i even remember artest blowing an easy lay-up early in that game, and looking at the score later, it could have tied up the game. but it is still is inexcusable, i mean gasol was on fire in that game. they didn’t even take a time-out before that shot, fish just kinda let it fly… and he got stuffed.
3peat.
Grades are not given to Derek Fisher
Derek Fisher’s are given to grades. Viva la Fish!
Maynard for Jesus.
by noontide on Jul 31, 2010 2:30 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Grading Fisher is impossible
Not only because of the emotional attachment fans have for him but because the things that he does so well cannot be measured. Giving Farmar the same grade as Fish is tough to accept from a fans point of view. You have to watch the games to see that Fish’s contributions meant more than anything remotely close to what Farmar did.
In the past two seasons Fisher has:
-put Scola on his ass
-hit two huge shots against Orlando in the Finals
-hit a huge shot against oklahoma in the playoffs in oklahoma
-hit a huge shot against Utah in the playoffs
-had the game of his life in game three of the Finals – but the most important part of that game is that he convinced Kobe to stop shooting to set screens for him. No other player can do that to Kobe.
I know this grading is for this season but these things should be considered. giving him a C+ is not wrong because that’s someone’s opinion. My opinion is he deserves at least a B. but thats me.
"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader
by Jelly Bean on Jul 31, 2010 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Hello there everyone and greetings from a lifetime Lakers fan from Greece.
After lurking from the very birth of this blog I finally decided to post for the first time.
Here is something about D-Fish that cannot be graded.
goose-bumps
i love how Kobe stepped in between when that former Cavs player tried to talk shit to Fisher.
btw..thnx for sharing that video.
"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader
He deserves a higher grade...
A B is about right.
"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess."
- Kobe Bryant
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