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Around SBN: Africa Cup Of Nations Semifinal: Black Stars Ripe For Upset?

Well I wrote this many words... (NBA GMs)

I might as well share it with you guys.

For those who haven't read it, Mike Prada for SB Nation wrote a post ranking all the General Managers in the NBA. Like every list attempting to rank things ever, it's an absolute crock of shit that offends me personally and makes me want to punch puppies. In the face.

Here its is

So, since it's a Friday night and I A) have a rare day off tomorrow after working the past week and B) have no social life, I spent way too much time trying to analyze his decisions and make a comment. Since the post involves the Lakers and my views on basketball in general, I figured I'd post it here at SSR. I invite comments/criticism/discussion of how I myself am full of shit.

Words follow.

Kupchak and Ainge, the two orchestrators of the greatest swindles in league history, and the combined winners of the past 3 championships (and 5 of 6 spots in those 3 finals) fall at 13, and 8?

Meanwhile, Pritchard, Warkentien, Preseti, Morey, and O’Connor have combined for a grand combination of jack shit and a pile of chips. Sure, they all have made smart moves. They make intelligent picks and utilize money well for the most part. But what on EARTH?

The point of being a GM is to put your team in place to win a championship. Let’s go down your top 10 and see who qualifies.

  1. Pat Riley – He deserves to be in the top 10, but 1? He’s been the GM for 15 years, and won a single championship. That is commendable, he did win. But he also had 07-08. You know, the time his team won a total of 15 games? Besides his championship, the Heat have had a reasonable chance of the Finals/winning a ‘ship once in the past 10 years, 04-05. That doesn’t cut it for the "best GM in basketball" status.
    PS – Come on, you cannot put him at 1 because Wade convinced LeBron to come over. They haven’t even played a single game together yet!
  2. O’Connor – The Jazz have been solid. Sure. They don’t spend too much, great. None of this changes the fact that they haven’t made the Finals since 97-98 and made the semis in 06/07. They’ve been a team that has been basically the same the past few years – good, very good even, but not great. That’s commendable in a GM, but not #2.
  3. Morey – Wooo he’s a stat genius. Yay he bilks teams with smart trades. Doesn’t change the fact that A) he inherited Yao (a fact you seem to hold against other GMs in this list) and B) ummmm he hasn’t won ANYTHING. They’ve won games, made the playoffs, left early, and been optimistic for next year. I consider him a top-rate GM, but not #3.
  4. Presti – I’m okay-ish with him being here. His team is new, he’s building a strong team with a great plan, and is primed to compete for the future. 4 or 5 is okay. How do you have Morey ahead (inheriting Yao) and knock him for inheriting Durant? Ummm come again? He still made the decision to draft Westbrook, which is looking more and more one of the best draft decisions of the past 3 years.
  5. Warkentien – WHAT? How is he anything more than slightly above average? He put together a solid team, but again inherited a star (Carmelo) and has not managed to parlay that into even a Finals appearance. The team is in limbo – good enough to make it past the first round, but not good enough to make the Finals. He’s got a pissed off star waiting to bolt and no way to rectify this mess. Great, he got rid of AI. He still traded for him in the first place. This is the least defended and most inexplicable placement right here. Wark is maybe what, 10? 15? Certainly not one of the 5 best GMs in the game.
  6. Pritchard – Let’s run with some of your myriad detractions from good GMs that you fail to apply here. Lucked into picks (2 2006 top 6 picks)? Check. Owner willing to spend boatloads of money? Check.
    He picked Oden, but has built a solid playoff team through smart drafting and some good FA signs. Your ranking isn’t that far off what I’d put, but since you flubbed the top 5 I have problems.
  7. Buford – Here we have our first mistake. The Spurs have been a 50-win team his entire tenure! Yes, he has Duncan. Doesn’t mean shit. He kept him, didn’t he? He built around him. He consistently made smart decision, and built a lasting team. Most importantly, <HE WON THREE CHAMPIONSHIPS. The RJ signing was a mistake, sure. So that drops him to what, the 3rd best GM?
  8. Ainge – Ainge has had bad years. The Celtics were terrible for a while. But you know, I don’t really care. He rebuilt. Made the best draft pick of the past 5 years in Rondo at #21. Swing the two outrageous trades that netted the Big 3. Put the Celtics onto the short list of legitimate championship contenders for the past 3 years, and won a title. There’s no way he’s not top 5. Even if we’re putting a heavy emphasis on the future (which you seem to be doing), team is a true contender this year (one of what, 5? 6 teams?) and has Rondo and Perkins to build around.
  9. Petrie – This again is a spot that isn’t too bad as a raw number, but weird in context of who he’s above. Yes, they’re in a good spot for the future with Evans and Cousins. They had past success as contenders in the early part of last decade and would have won a title or two if not for the Lakers. That’s fine. But they were terrible, awful, tragic for the past 4 seasons.
  10. Nelson – You know what? He should be higher. He’s held on to Dirk, made reasonably sound decisions, worked in conjunction with Cuban, and fielded teams that were championship contenders (or in the case of 06, should have won the ‘ship) and consistently made the playoffs/won 50+. That’s higher than #10 in my book.

Obviously my main beef is having Kupchak at 13. No justification here makes sense.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, has as many built-in advantages as Kupchak.

Umm great, doesn’t change the fact his team just won back-to-back titles (one of the most difficult tasks in sports).

He has Kobe Bryant,

He also managed to keep Kobe, which is a feat of itself.

Phil Jackson,

again, kept/brought him back

There’s also the Pau Gasol trade, which was certainly a bit lucky, but also a hell of a coup.

This is the most dismissive praise I’ve ever read.

So let’s recap. He didn’t kowtow to an ego-maniacal star who would’ve sunk the team in the future (Shaq), successfully kept the game’s best player for arguably the past 5/6 seasons (and at least 3 of them) despite a rebuilding process, signed the best coach the game has ever seen back from retirement, brought in Pau Gasol for parts the Lakers had no use for (and he just so happens to be one of the keys for this next bit), and, oh, won the past two titles and was runner-up the year before.

Add on to that the fact that the Lakers are in position to be the first team in 23 years to make 4 straight Finals and the favorite to three-peat (a task almost impossible in the modern era) and you get the 13th best GM?

 

Dumars should be higher (he won a ‘ship, gotta get some love), Thorn/Walsh/Wallace should be lower, and I’ve spent too much time on this.

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Good stuff.

But it’s the same argument people use for why Phil Jackson never wins Coach of the Year. He’s won 11 championships with two teams, and he’s only won COY once. Their argument? His teams are too good. You have to have a shit team to win COY, or at least bring a shit team back from shit. But if your team wins, you haven’t done enough to earn COY.

But I guess it’s best that he doesn’t win it since it seems to be the biggest curse in the NBA other than playing for the Trailblazers or the Clippers.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 24, 2010 9:36 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

ROFL
or at least bring a shit team back from shit.

Sweet 16

by bluexfalcon on Jul 24, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

lmfaoo

i was thinking the same thing hahah

by yankeepanda44 on Jul 24, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heh
But I guess it’s best that he doesn’t win it since it seems to be the biggest curse in the NBA other than playing for the Trailblazers or the Clippers.

Don’t forget “Being Tracy McGrady”

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 24, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually,

D.Wade is the best GM in the league.

Sweet 16

by bluexfalcon on Jul 24, 2010 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

LOL, at this point, he definitely is.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 24, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol

for buford the rj signing was a mistake, twice

"I wanted to do what was best for LeBron James, and what LeBron James is going to do to make him happy."- Lebron James

by c.lobster on Jul 24, 2010 10:21 AM PDT reply actions  

PAT RAILLY IS NUMBER WON!

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Jul 24, 2010 10:52 AM PDT reply actions  

LEWIS MONROE, LAKER FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 24, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously, who is the clown that wrote this crap?

Some backwards East Coast blogger I bet

Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...

by Mike1204 on Jul 24, 2010 11:35 AM PDT reply actions  

I mean the article that you were referring to. Not you. You I agree with

Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...

by Mike1204 on Jul 24, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wrote it.

"Anyone crazy enough to mess with me is crazy enough to play with me." - Kobe

by LakerUNLTD on Jul 24, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Zing!

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 24, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Guy was dumb. Ugh.

Shit justifications for his writing.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 24, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Prada knows his stuff

And honestly, the arguments here in rebuttal aren’t very compelling.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 24, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

and once again Ben R shows up to dismiss another reasonable opinion.

Good stuff Ben. You should have been King of some small country so you could just kill anyone that you don’t like/agree with.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Jul 24, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Reasonable?

He has “shit justifications”? That’s a reasonable opinion? Only in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Oh, the horrors of arguing against a majority opinion. I obviously must be wrong.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 24, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

They're "shit justifications"

Because they’re not logically consistent.

He condemns GMs for having star players or rich owners, but then doesn’t mention it when it suits him. And justifying Kupchak at 13 because he has “built-in advantages”? That’s a load of crap. Plenty of other teams have owners willing to spend, but they don’t win as much as the Lakers have.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 24, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ben's not dismissing, he's just providing a reasonable countering point of view.

Meanwhile y’all are dismissing the original Mike Prada article.

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 25, 2010 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, we're Laker fans...

If we’re not standing up for Mitch, then who is?

either way, I could care less what a two-bit blogger thinks of our GM. We’ll 3 peat while his Washington Bullets Wizards have another productive lottery year.

Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...

by Mike1204 on Jul 25, 2010 2:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I seriously doubt he knows his stuff

Saying Mitch doesn’t even deserve to crack top 10 because he has Kobe is just as ridiculous as saying Kobe doesn’t deserve to be top 10 all time because he had Shaq and Gasol.

Yeah, Mitch has some stuff to work with. I really don’t see why that justifies dropping him to 13.. I hate it when people denigrate the accomplishments of others based on what he had. Life is a poker game, and you play with the cards you’re dealt. And I can say for sure that Mitch has played a lot better than Walsh, who was ranked 14th despite a having a blank check to wave around.

Sure, he made mistakes, but he erased those mistakes into Pau Gasol. Now that is a good trade. You can try to denigrate it can call it “lucky”, but should we also call Danny Ainge lucky for Garnett? Or Presti lucky that Durant fell on his lap? No. We shouldn’t.

He is not the type to beat the bush and leak shit. He deals and wheels in the dark, and that’s what I love about him. We never hear “rumors”, just signings.

To conclude, to say that the GM of Bucks and Nyets somehow did better work than Mitch is simply indefensible. Sure, top 5 GM is a stretch, but to say that he’s middle of the pack after winning 2 chips and a fruitful offseason is nothing short of batshit stupid

Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...

by Mike1204 on Jul 24, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

The championships argument is a very poor one

Because that has a whole lot less to do with the GM and much more on the coach and players once you get into the playoffs. Joe Dumars should get props for winning a ring, but he has been positively awful since with a veritable ton of horrible moves and should be considered as such. Comparatively, O’Connor should deserve praise for keeping Utah consistently competitive despite the fact that 1) he can’t go over the tax 2) he has to find players suited for a system that demands very specific talents. This is like using the “he has rings” arguments when comparing players, which is about the worst way of going about it.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 24, 2010 2:40 PM PDT reply actions  

But it's much more applicable to GMs than Players

A player is only responsible for how he plays. The GM is responsible for creating and maintaining the entire team. Surely, successfully winning a championship requires doing a good job?

I agree that Dumars has made poor decisions. Nowhere did I say he deserved to be in the top 10 or anything, I just think he was ranked too low, for this article was based purely off of recent performance/future speculation it seems like.

Also, sure O’Connor deserves some praise, but how can he be ranked ahead of Buford and Nelson, who not only kept their teams competitive/elite for the past 10 years, but also achieved the goal of winning/making the Finals?

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 24, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Err, no it isn't

The GM can only assemble the pieces; the coach and the players have to make it work internally. Execution, chemistry, and effort are all the on players and the coaches whose job is to motivate them and make them into a cohesive unit. A GM can look for players he thinks best fits the type of his team, but it’s pointless if there isn’t an adequate coach to actually make the effort to place that player into a concrete role.

As for Dumars, his recent moves have been so ridiculously poor that it more or less negates anything he did up to getting the ring. The Billups trade was a disaster, he hired an awful coach in Curry that worsened the situation, he spent his cap space on completely underwhelming set of big acquisitions in Gordon and Villanueva (and he also signed Kwame to $10 million/2 years), he constrained any future flexibility by giving Hamilton that ridiculous extension, and refused to jettison to the older, irrelevant pieces on the team, especially Prince, when they still had value.

And as for O’Connor, he’s done more with less than nearly every GM in the league. Perhaps he doesn’t deserve to be ranked in the top three, but he’s been a bedrock for Utah in terms of consistently finding players for Sloan’s system and has been essentially mistake free for the past decade, besides Kirilenko’s huge extension that every other GM in the league probably would have given. Buford takes a hit because his recent moves have been a bit iffy ($40 million for Richard Jefferson? Really?), but yeah, he probably deserves a top five spot, especially after he made the best deal of the summer in getting Splitter for a pittance. Nelson has the benefit of Cuban giving him unlimited spending power and he hasn’t exactly used that very efficiently, giving a ton of marginal players big contracts and topping it off with Dampier’s utterly ridiculous one. The Howard trade that brought in Butler and Haywood was good, but he has a lot of mistakes compared to the rest of the top ten.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 24, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

But

The GM hires the coach? Isn’t that another major decision? It’s his responsibility to build the team, the coach, to put together the right combination of personnel to win.

Listen, I’m not going to defend Dumars too much. He has made shit decisions lately, I don’t agree with the Gordon/Villanueva/Hamilton contracts and all that, and Detroit isn’t really in good position for the future. That said, they did win a championship, make the Finals another time, and they had a run of 6 straight years making at least the Conference Finals. Putting him as the 5th worst GM I think is wrong.

O’Connor has done well, and is borderline top 5. I’m not saying he’s terrible, I’m saying where he is on the list and who he’s ranked ahead of is terrible. He missed the playoffs for 3 years and hasn’t made the NBA Finals. That does not make you the second-best GM in basketball.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 24, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but in most of these cases

The coach predates the GM. The systems and personnel in Utah and San Antonio, for instance, revolve around what Sloan and Popovich believe is best for the team. The GM can only attempt to pigeonhole pieces they believe fit the system that is already in place; from that point forward, it’s out of their control. Even in cases in which the GM hires the coach, his responsibilities end when the player is signed, as it’s the coach’s responsibility to mold that player into something that fits the system he’s trying to implement or put him in the correct role for him to succeed. I suppose my biggest point is that putting the blame on the GM for not winning a ring is unfair. He can’t dictate gameplans, effort, and motivation that often are the largest factors behind those title runs. He can put them in a position to do so, but he can only show them door, not open it for them.

As for Dumars, perhaps he’s ranked a bit low, but his recent decisions have really served to indicate that he has little to no idea what the hell he’s doing. I would still have him ranked in the bottom quarter of GMs. For O’Connor, yes, top five is a stretch (I’d put Riley, Morey, Presti, Buford, and Pritchard in some order there), but his spot around there is pretty deserved.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 24, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

In most cases?

The only teams in the top 10 on this list where the coach/system predated the GM are Utah and San Antonio. Every other GM has had to hire a coach/was brought in at the same time as the coach. Deciding who the coach is going to be is one of the responsibilities of the GM every offseason.

Obviously the GM is not the sole factor in winning a championship, but they have the largest single part of any individual in a team. A company is only as strong as who it hires, and in that respect the GM is very important.

He can put them in a position to do so, but he can only show them door, not open it for them.

Using this statement, how is there no love for Kupchak from you? He has put the Lakers in front of the door the past 3 seasons, and the team has delivered.
Utah? They were in front of the door in 2007, but since then? They’ve never had a true shot of winning the championship. Do you think that is on Sloan for not being a good enough coach or O’Connor for not assembling a team built to beat the Lakers?

I’m not trying to denigrate the accomplishments/skills of GMs like Morey, Presti, Pritchard, and O’Connor; they are top-flight GMs. But saying they’re undeniably better than Kupchak doesn’t make sense to me.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 24, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think winning championships speaks wonders of a GM

especially when we’re talking multiple titles. You could make the argument that Shaq sort of fell into our lap for the first three-peat, but if it weren’t for some amazing work by Mitch through the next decade we wouldn’t be back on the top having won the West 3 times in a row.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 24, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shaq just fell into our lap?!?!

That was a tremendous coup by the Logo, as I recall. I also think it was the beginning of the end of his career as Lakers GM. That was a very eventful summer, and West takes it all to heart. It’s part of what makes him great, but that is some enormous wear and tear, emotionally.

by Brian Tung on Jul 25, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Winning championships is really the only way to judge a GM.

Seriously, their only job is to get players to win titles. There’s no other way to judge them.

"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison

by sexsalad on Jul 25, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well

I guess we could judge them on the players they get and how they get them. Contracts, trades, drafts, are all a crucial part of a GM. Building a champion and maintaining it with the stars are cool, but not building to last afterward is a sign of weakness in terms of planning ahead.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.

by Marty Mart on Jul 26, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are many facets to a successful GM

But I felt the most important one – putting your team in the position to win the championship – was under-represented in this article.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 26, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought so too

because getting lucky to have a group of guys is one thing, but its not like we’ve drafted busts. Its not like we don’t have the best personnel to help out our players. I mean there are underrated things like trainers and specialty coaches, like Kareem, that are hired by the GM to address needs for the team. Part of it is because it is so hard to judge the value of those decisions because of the lack of on-court evidence.
Although, one could say the Trail Blazer GM really needs to get a dietician or nutritionist and a new trainer to strengthen their players from injury. lol

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.

by Marty Mart on Jul 26, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

or the nuggets gm should hire ron's shrink for the entire team

Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...

by Mike1204 on Jul 27, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

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