Thoughts on Chris Paul
by Ben R on Jul 22, 2010 1:10 AM PDT
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PrintIn a remarkably similar situation to the middle of the previous season, the Lakers find themselves prominently listed on the trade wish list of one of the league's premier players. For those of you who recall, the first player was Chris Bosh, and as of today, Chris Paul has indicated his interest in joining the reigning champions. Per the fairly reliable Ken Berger of CBS Sports, Paul lists the New York Knicks, Orlando Magic, and the Los Angeles Lakers as his preferred landing spots.
More analysis after the jump:
For those of you who have been in a cave the last few years, Chris Paul is one of the league's premier point guards, and largely by consensus, is considered the best point guard in the league, much to the collective scorn of Deron Williams supporters in Utah. In terms of statistical measures, Paul is an incredibly efficient player. For what is essentially an "off" year for him due to injuries, Paul shot 49.3% from the field, 40.9% from three, and topped that off with a 58.4 TS% last year. His offensive game covers the entire floor, with adept three-point range aided by an insanely good floater that he can use up to 10-12 feet out. Just to illustrate this, the typical percentage for players on 10-12 foot shots is around the high 30s, as these usually tend to be contested and require a floater. For the '08-'09 season (used simply because the data for this has already been compiled), the top four players in this category were Paul (49.7%), Yao Ming (49.7%), Pau Gasol (48.8%), and Dirk Nowitzki (48.6%). So Paul shoots better, as a 6'0'' point guard, on contested floaters than the 7'0'' Gasol. If that doesn't indicate that he's devastating from every point on the floor, I'm not sure what else I can tell you.
And naturally, Paul is a point guard, so he's obviously feeding the ball to other players when he's not carving up defenses himself. Although not as flashy as Steve Nash or working within a dedicated screen-roll system that generates easy looks like Williams, Paul is a highly effective passer who rarely errs in the process. For the previous season, Paul put up a 36.6 assist ratio (percentage of his possessions that ended with an assist) as compared to a minuscule 8.5 turnover ratio (percentage of his possessions that ended with a turnover). This results in Paul's putting up daily numbers that match and exceed a lot of the gaudy stats that LeBron posts night after night, but the unquestioned part about of it is how much he improves everyone around him, perhaps best seen in how he turned Tyson Chandler, an offensive liability, into a force off the pick-and-roll that usually ended with Chandler dunking the ball. As a final note on this, to begin the '09-'10 season, Paul shot 59.4% from the field and 65.5% from three before succumbing to injury. I'll stop there.
Of course, there's the slightly relevant point that the Lakers run the triangle, which minimizes the role of the point guard in the offense and is why we won two championships with Derek Fisher at the helm (with all the according respect to Fisher's intangibles). In the triangle, point guards typically walk the ball up the court, make the initial pass and then go squat in the corner until someone passes them the ball for what is usually a wide-open three. Obviously, this is radically different from the highly one-dimensional high pick-and-roll offense run by Bryon Scott in New Orleans that Paul has played in for the majority of his career. Thankfully, we have Phil Jackson, who mercifully saved us from Bryon Scott coming to L.A. to implement the aforementioned dismally uncreative offense, coordinating the triangle, and I absolutely refuse to accept the notion that Phil would be unwilling to tweak the triangle to accommodate one of the most gifted perimeter players of our generation.
Aside from that, Paul fills an important need that was sorely lacking last year outside of Kobe and (very seldom) Odom: creativity off the dribble. When the triangle stalls and it inevitably does so, the usual solution is to give Kobe the ball to create a shot for himself or for a teammate by drawing the defense towards him. Usually, the second player who is able to do this is Odom, whose ability to take fours off the dribble and either go to the rim or make a deft interior pass all but disappeared last season as he settled for alarming amounts of long jumpers. To some degree, this resulted in Kobe being heavily overworked for a good chunk of the year, and while largely caused by a lack of shooters to provide adequate spacing, resulted in the Lakers' offensive efficiency taking a large dip. Needless to say, Paul fills that role probably better than any non-Nash player in the league, from his aforementioned stellar ability to create shots for himself and make on-point passes to others.
In terms of defense, Paul is annually one of the league leaders in steals, and generally does a solid job of staying in front of his man and defending against post-ups with underrated strength for a 6'0'', 175 pound guard. About the only disadvantage is that his height makes it somewhat difficult for him to contest shots effectively, although that's a common refrain for guards of Paul's size. In other words, don't expect him to chase Ray Allen through screens.
If the trade occurs, Paul also becomes part of what is undoubtedly an effective lineup in transition, and we come to the trade particulars. For the most part, the only two possible scenarios I envision are the following:
Andrew Bynum, Sasha Vujacic, and two first rounders (and Ebanks, Caracter, or both) for Paul and James Posey.
OR
Andrew Bynum, Sasha Vujacic, Luke Walton, and two first rounders (and Ebanks, Caracter, or both) for Paul and Emeka Okafor.
As usual for most teams in these situations of having to trade a franchise player, the usual asking price is 1) a young talent (Bynum) 2) salary relief (taking Posey/Okafor for Vujacic's expiring) 3) draft picks (plus Ebanks or Caracter if necessary). We followed this model when we traded for Gasol, giving up 1) Javaris Crittenton 2) Kwame Brown 3) two first rounders.
In any case, the first scenario is the simplest way for this to occur, and gives us Paul along with '07-'08 Celtics defensive stalwart Posey, who is a shadow of the player that played tough defense on Kobe in the '08 Finals. The immediate problem is that we lose Bynum, a near necessity in these talks lest the Lakers quickly (and I mean, quickly) fall behind other offers, and this damages the frontcourt depth of this team, which has been one of its calling cards for the past two years. Although Bynum has been injured for both championship runs and Gasol performed most of the heavy lifting, the fact that we can "throw three seven footers out there" (with Odom's height conveniently inflated for this statement) has been this team's defining aspect outside of Kobe himself. That said, I'd still argue that the gap between the advantage we gain with Paul replacing Fisher/Blake as versus the downgrade from Bynum to ~12-15 minutes of [insert veteran center name] is significant enough to make this worthwhile.
And that brings us to the second scenario, which actually addresses more needs for both teams. NO sends us Emeka Okafor, whom they've been desperately shopping since the trade deadline due to his large contract, which extends for the next four years at ~$12 million/year with approximately $1 million/year raises. While definitely not worth the franchise player money he's making, Okafor certainly is not a bad player, simply an above average one not living up to his expectations. He's a solid defensive player who uses his bulk well to defend post-ups, clean up the glass very effectively, and can be moderately effective at pick-and-roll defense. On offense, he's a liability due to his lack of a post game, and in Charlotte, he was annually among the league leaders in getting his shot blocked, although I'd wager much of that was due to the fact that Charlotte had a painfully bad offense when Okafor was in town and used as a go-to guy. Depending on where Artest's head is screwed on for the night, he'll safely be the fourth or fifth option on the floor.
As such, Okafor fills the middle for Bynum and allows Gasol to avoid the day-to-day pounding that Bynum absorbs for him. As for New Orleans, you may question their motivation for taking Walton's contract, which was fruitlessly shopped last year by Kupchak, but the difference is in the long-term money saved by NO due to Okafor's contract coming off the books. With Vujacic's contract expiring following next season and Walton's a year before Okafor's, NO saves a lot more money over the next four years, an especially important concern given the fractured ownership situation that is currently deadlocked concerning millions in debt that the new owner would incur upon taking control of the club.
And finally, the particulars on whether this will actually happen. As with all trades that involve any of the league's top 15 players, it's not healthy to bet on them occurring, although there is a lot of things to like in the second scenario. Paul's other suitors have comparatively limited packages in comparison, as New York's assets are unavailable due to most of them being recent trades or free agent acquisitions and Orlando's package revolves around Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter. While Nelson is an appealing piece, he's slightly redundant with UCLA product Darren Collison on the roster. In my honest summation, among the three teams in question, the Lakers can provide the three required items better than any of Paul's listed teams. As for Paul's motivations about the process, which are clouded with his recent declaration of forming a big three in New York with Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony as well as his signing with LeBron's marketing firm, remember that the sole authority for this decision lies with New Orleans, with whom Paul is signed for the next two years. They'll accommodate his interests to some extent, but the reality is that trading Paul means a rebuilding process for the team, and they'll take the best offer on the market, whether that sends Paul to basketball purgatory in New Jersey or the bright lights of Los Angeles.
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i dont like to think that Drew will leave us
I want to see what some of the best big guys in the league can really do together.
In Soviet Russia, LA beats you.
I agree with that sentiment
It’s just that Paul + Okafor >>>>>>>>>>>> just Bynum. If that offer is actually available, I really can’t see why Kupchak doesn’t jump at it.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
If we don't have to give up our draft pics
our bench really sucks as it is
Frankly, I'm more than happy to give up draft picks
For one of the top five players in the game today. The bench will always be populated by veterans seeking rings.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
i will be fine with a Okafar+Paul trade but then we would have 3 starters figuring the triangle next year
Not a fan of that.
Kobe, God and I don't tweet. Everyone else does.
This in addition to the fact that Paul needs to return to form.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
There's more than a bit of 'double standards' in your assertions on that bronco...
I mean, Bynum hasn’t finished the past 3 seasons, and is about to have knee surgery himself.
Chris Paul’s had one surgery, is of a size that usually copes with that much better… and is CHRIS PAUL.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
I get that he is Chris Paul.
Since, both have knee issues, I would rather stick with Bynum. He has more value to this team in the triangle. As I’ve recently posted, his inclusion in the line-up moves Pau over to the 4 where Pau can exploit other teams.
LO could do the same thing as Pau and really destroy some teams, but he rarely does so. Thus, he would be the logical one to trade to NO. Unfortunatley, NO would not accept a package centered around LO.
Didn’t Paul have his meniscus removed? I swear I heard it somewhere.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Okefor places center
and despite his huge contract he could be really helpful.
Hes poor on offense but we dont need that at all. Hes a great shotblocker and rebounder and that us what we need next to Gasol
On defense, I understand the argument.
On offense though, Gasol will be guarded by the other team’s biggest man. If Bynum were on the team, Gasol would be guarded by the second biggest man.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Your assumption assumes that Gasol isn't effective on offense at the five
Which is very inaccurate.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
He wouldn't be as effective though.
When Gasol plays as a PF, he more effective than when he plays as a C. Who, at PF, is going to be able to stop (or slow down) Gasol as compared to who can do so as a C?
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That's not true
Gasol’s primary strength on offense comes from how fluidly and quickly he executes his post moves (and a half-dozen other counter moves). His main advantage is speed and execution, not power, which means that he often performs his moves before a center can adequately react to them. Against fours, he’s relying more on his height and his bulk, and while he’s certainly effective there as well, it’s slightly different than him in the post (especially since he’s shooting midrange jumpers a lot as a four).
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
To me,
Bynum makes us tougher to beat than Paul/Okafor would be.
That said, if PJ makes a system change, the above statement could change.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Then I suppose it's pointless to argue
If you can’t see why having Paul on the perimeter makes our offense unbelievably good.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
OK. I guess it is.
I just don’t think you make such a move after a team repeats as Champs.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed, whenever you have a chance to get a top 3 player at his position in the nba you have to jump at it, especially at a position where you are largely unsure of…..however…… I rather be unsure at the point, then be unsure at the center position.
It seems like good point guards are a dime a dozen, what sets the Lakers and Bynum apart, is that big men are so hard to come by. Teams often end up overpaying for guys that are simply not that good (Okafor, Chandler, etc)
I would be interested in seeing if we still run the triangle post phil, as a extremely talented pg is not necessary for success, while the inside game is the foundation of our D and rebounding dominance.
I would be fine with this deal going through, or not happening. However, given that Bynum has a penchant to get injured. Is 15-25 mins of Bynum really worth 40 mins of CP3?
As much as I love Bynum, this trade is a no brainer as far as im concerned
In Kobe we trust!
okay talent-wise this is true but
i feel like what puts our team over the top is the fact that we have these two big guys cleaning up the boards and creating just on the inside and I don’t know if Okafor has the skills to do that. we won the championship with DFish as our PG, and I don’t know if it would be all good to have a undeniably great player come in and have to learn the offense which was obviously a problem with Artest last year. you could argue that Paul is a smarter guy than Artest or whatever but the possibility is always there.
In Soviet Russia, LA beats you.
Nope
Not gonna happen…not enough minutes for fisher, blake, and paul…Why did they go after blake and fisher in the first place. Don’t need paul, but posey on the other hand we need.
...are you joking?
Do you really think that Fisher and Blake are going to take minutes away from Chris Paul?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Yeah
Passing up Chris Paul because you already have Fish and Blake would be like passing up a million bucks because you already have a Discover card.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 22, 2010 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions 12 recs
But there is a point there
we’ll have too many point guards…we need to figure out a way to get rid of them…
I assure you that it will be very easy
To dump Blake’s or Fisher’s contract at the deadline. Probably the former’s.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
We wont dump fisher for all the Chris Pauls in the world
Kobe wouldn’t do that. Blake, on the other hand, might get the ol’ bait and switch
They went after Fisher for his familiarity with the system, leadership, and intangibles.
They went after Blake because Farmar’s gone, and they needed a PG backup for Fisher.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
but with Chris Paul
there is no need for Blake…
True
But they didn’t know that CP3 was available when they signed Blake. I, too, question what would happen to Blake if the Lakers acquired Paul.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
i think the correct answer to the question "what happens to blake if we get chris paul" is
“who gives a shit about blake, we have chris paul”
by thedavidmo on Jul 22, 2010 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Haha, good point.
But we did sign him to a contract, so we still gotta pay him, or ship him out. I would feel terrible for Steve Blake if that happened, though.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
agreed....
…though i wouldn’t feel that terrible. dude gets paid millions of dollars to play friggin’ basketball…not gonna lose any sleep over his situation :)
You're right. But when people get paid millions of dollars, it becomes the norm for them.
Blake gets picked up by one of the top franchises in sports, potentially securing a starting job in 2-3 years, then gets shipped to another team, likely with a worse situation. Not too good of a turnaround.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
Blake is already old
In 2-3 years he’ll be old
I don’t see him taking a starting position permanently
Couldn't we use Blake as a 2 coming off the bench?
Since we lose Sasha, we could use Blake to fill that void, I think.
All I'm tryin' to say is get back! Click, clack, BLAOW!
Not really....
Remember, we’ll get Shannon Brown back easy. So the 2 is manned.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
Blake would probably be gone if we got him
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
Basketball is about matchups
Against the Miami Heat, we’d probably be better off with a healthy Bynum…
Chris Paul would no doubt help us do a crazy amount of damage, but it would take the entire season to figure out how to change the triangle to make this work. Plus…it would reduce our defensive ability….
WAIT
whoa whoa whoa lose defense? Okafor is primarily a defensive minded player, and Bynum literally had NO knees during the finals run, and didn’t play heavy minutes. Also, how would having Chris Paul be WORSE defense than Derek Fisher and Steve Blake? This is a ridiculous assertion that the defense would worsen with Chris Paul on the team.
Also, the Lakers will do fine w/o Bynum, as you still have a 6’10 Odom, 6’10-6’11 Okafor, and a 7’0 Pau manning the defense. You’ve still got length, still got hops, and now you don’t need to have to worry about so much penetration by point guards, since Chris Paul actually knows how to stay in front of someone in isolation defense. I love Fisher, but his best defense probably comes from running around screens and forcing shooters off their favorite spots.
by B- on Jul 24, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Very nice write-up, Ben R.
I’d fuckin’ go ballistic if we got CP3. Damn, him, Kobe, Gasol would break down defenses…
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
I like scenario 2...
we’d lose almost nothing on defense….Bynum is a 7 footer and Okafor is 6-10 and Bynum’s a good 15-20 pounds heavier, but still…not bad
the offense we’d lose in Bynum would be more than gained by Paul…at least theoretically…
If Phil’s okay with this, then go for it…if Phil can’t incorporate Paul in the triangle…then no
But I still say
that we’ll still be a weaker defensive team…and it’ll only become more glaring against a team like the Heat
Hrm, not sure about that
Okafor is a solid defensive big. He rebounds much better than Bynum and is more fundamentally sound, although he doesn’t have the same level of upside. I doubt we’d lose anything on defense, especially since we’d have a competent point guard defender in Paul.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Yeah
People have been saying, if the PG gets burned, we won’t have dual 7-footers to protect the rim. Paul has been to the NBA All-Defensive second team in ’08 and first in ’09.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
weaker defensive team?
We’ve been burned by quick point guards. Chris Paul ensures that never happens again.
deron williams has a different opinion about that
Now you know -- Manny Pacquaio
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Let this be a reminder to all of us; without competition, without that possibility (and realization) of failure, success would be meaningless. -- Zephid, FB&G
but what would this mean for kobe's legacy?
a lot of time has been spent arguing that lebron ruined his legacy by teaming up with another tier 1 player in wade. wouldn’t kobe be ruining his legacy by teaming up with paul (who i consider to be tier 1, but maybe that’s debatable)? shouldn’t kobe want to beat paul, not team up with him?
i guess you could argue that it’s different because paul is coming to la, kobe’s not going to join paul—but that’s pretty weak, since who goes to join who is determined by circumstantial things like expiring contracts and which teams have space under the cap.
anyway, just throwing that out there. though if this trade does go through, we’ve officially entered the era of the superteam. i mean kobe-paul-gasol vs. lebron-wade-bosh? it’s like a usa team scrimmage…(er, minus the fact that gasol is spanish)
Kobe already has rings though
Two of which he won when he was the unquestioned leader of the team. Far different scenario than LeBron to Miami. Also, this is the Lakers acquiring Paul via trade, not Paul choosing to go to the Lakers via free agency, so it’s more the “wait and let the front office do their jobs” part of it that Kobe is following more than anything else.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
This is Kobe's team.
I can’t remember who said it, but it was something along the lines of “you don’t go to them, they come to you.”
All I'm tryin' to say is get back! Click, clack, BLAOW!
i believe it was charles barkley?
talking about lebron james and free agency? i can be wrong…
Yep.
‘When you’re the two-time MVP, they come to you. I can’t think of any situation in sports where a two-time MVP has gone to join someone else’s team.’
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions
And Kobe hasn't directly orchestrated any of the additions to the Lakers
The GMs would be responsible for bringing this together. Kobe would likely be asked about it for his approval but I don’t think he decides which players come and go.
that's weak
The difference is that LBJ could not win it by himself, pushed by cowardice the man quite even trying. Kobe on the other hand already has 5 rings, 7 finals appearances. ?? How is anything similar?
Completely different scenarios
LeBron’s “decision” was completely unilateral…he wanted to go to Miami to play with two other stars. He even took less money to do so and Cleveland received no compensation in return.
If Paul comes to the Lakers, it would come at a price…namely Andrew Bynum. Already you see the debate on whether or not one or the other helps or hurts the Lakers. Kobe’s legacy will actually be enhanced because he’ll be the one constant that connects the Lakers championship teams.
What's more important, Kobe's legacy or the Lakers being contenders for the next decade?
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions
What's the latest on the New Orleans ownership situation?
I haven’t heard much on that front since it was announced in May that Shinn was selling the team to Chouest.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
They're currently deadlocked
Because Shinn wants Chouest to assume a certain amount of debt that the team holds and Chouest is balking. That’s one of the reasons NO sent feelers out to explore Paul’s trade market earlier in the summer.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Do they really have to explore?
He’s really valuable…
Well, you don't know what other teams will offer
Until you call them and ask about it (albeit, in a very indirect fashion).
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Not surprisingly
Deepwater Horizon hasn’t helped anything.
The article posits that Chouest’s attention has been diverted, which is undoubtedly true. I bet as well that he’s feeling like he doesn’t have as much cashishe to play with as he did a few months ago. The Gulf maritime business isn’t exactly the red-hot growth industry it once was.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jul 22, 2010 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Why, did something happen over there in the Gulf?
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
If Chris Paul
comes to the Lakers, will he be option 1, 2, or 3?
I don't think
He’d be counted on to do as much scoring, so 3, IMO. His job would be to initiate the offense, or penetrate the opposition’s defense and dish out to the open man. Unless, the lane is open, and he can take his man one on one, then he’d be first in that situation.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
Why I'm against Paul as long as we use the Triangle.
Waste of his talents.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Chris Paul is a hardcore baller, everyone knows that. I think the biggest problem with him being a Laker would be there’s only one ball!!
In Magic’s era, he would run transition and he had running wings with him to play the break. When it got slowed down to a half-court, they could pound it in to Kareem, or dish it out to the shooters. Magic was clearly the guy who would have the ball in his hands though.
If CP3 came to LA though, who would run the half-court offense? Kobe would feel like he’s the better candidate since he knows the team and the offense. And he’s Kobe. CP3 isn’t really a slasher type, nor has he played as a set shooter. CP3 has probably played with the ball in his hands ever since he learned how to dribble!
I think we already decided that the triangle wouldn’t be the best way o integrate Paul. The question would be, without good transition players, we’d be playing a half court set, what type of offense do we run?? We already saw Pao complain about touches, is it possible to integrate two ball-dominant perimeter players in the same half-court offense and make it work?
Also, I don’t think the Miami situation is comparable to this, since both of their guys are young wing players who can play in transition and work with each other as slashers.
by wickedskillz on Jul 22, 2010 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions
If Paul isn't a slasher or set shooter,
How do you suppose he averaged almost 20 PPG over his career? Isn’t slashing to the hoop his specialty? Along with solid shooting skills.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
i meant slashing off of the ball. he doesn’t have the height to be an ariza type. He gets to the paint with the ball in his hands.
by wickedskillz on Jul 22, 2010 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, I see. I thought you meant penetrating to the hoop w/ ball.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
Jerry Buss loves Showtime more than Bynum
Jerry Buss also thinks Scott is the key to making that happen and would definitely use that as a selling point to CP3 behind closed doors.
I don’t want Byron Scott and I don’t think a move to showtime is a good idea, but I think Jerry Buss probably does, and I’m sure he’d have no problem overruling Mitch and PJ to make it happen.
to LAL: Okafor + Paul
to NOH: Bynum + Vujacic + Walton
…would make sense to both teams. Bynum is a piece NO can build around. The Lakers fill their gap in the middle with Okafor and ship out their two worst contracts for a guy they can use. The Hornets save money by shipping out Okafor’s 4 year contract for Walton’s 3-year and Sasha’s expiring contracts.
Dumping salary while adding a young prospect are attractive to both current and future NO ownership.
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
So...
…when did you have this conversation with Jerry Buss?
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Point taken
Somewhere in between surfing the web for 10 hours and re-writing Laker reality, I actually BECAME Jerry Buss like in that John Malkovich movie. The sad thing is I only pondered trade scenarios instead of chasing the 20 year old blonde girls… :(
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
LOL, gotta learn your priorities. You definitely need to talk to Jerry.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
I'll still bet on his knees over Bynum's
Maynard for Jesus.
by Rich Langford on Jul 22, 2010 3:20 AM PDT up reply actions
i would like too see paul on the lakers…. if its gonna happen okafor will be the back up for lamar and pau should start at center…. and if the package include posey that a complimentary we actually upgrade another level as a defensive team…. 4 players good at playing the passing lanes kobe. artest, paul, and posey,,, i think its a good trade…
Hmmm... I'd rather
Odom stay where he is. Okafor play center and Pau at the 4.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
It does seem like the Lakers could give the best package
We all love Bynum but would kick ourselves if he keeps getting hurt and we could have had CP3. I like the second scenario. Ebanks and Caracter could be fun to watch but I wouldn’t sweat it if one or both were traded.
Comparing trade assets by team
Young talent:
1st- the Lakers: Bynum, rights to Ebanks and/or Caracter
2nd- the Knicks: Azuibuke and/or Randolph, but both are FAs after 1 year
3rd- the Magic: Nelson
Expiring contracts:
1st- the Knicks: Curry’s $11.2m
2nd (tie)- the Lakers: Vujajcic’s $5.4m
2nd (tie)- the Magic: Pietrus’ $5.3m
Best Overall: Lakers
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
Nelson's a complete non-factor.
Given NOLA have Collison.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
the expiring contract for the magic wouldnt be pietrus it would be carter at like 15 m.
by rabidmonkey51 on Jul 22, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Carter's not an EC.
And Carter + Nelson for CP3 doesn’t work, cap-wise.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions
pietrus isn’t an expiring contract. vc is up after this year with only 4m of like a 19m contract guaranteed. hornets would want to package okafur with paul, and a trade for jameer and vc works.
by rabidmonkey51 on Jul 23, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, my bad.
I thought VC had a few years left… heh, suppose then he doesn’t doom the Magic too much, after all.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
yup me too
Though the Blazers are reportedly to demand for a “valuable” player for Rudy. Rudy has contract 1.2 million though which make him hard to trade for.
Risk vs. Reward for both teams seems to be equal in Bynum for CP3
- both players have contracts that end the same year, so the possibility of losing a player cancels out
- both players have health questions about their knees
- both players are big names that a team can build around
- both teams have players to fill the spots being vacated (Pau at C, Collins at PG)
Side note: Bynum for Paul straight up works on the trade machine.
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
I see with my eyes a Trade Machine Fanatic.
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
only after 1. Laker fanatic and 2. SS&R fanatic :P
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
yeah Collison, sorry, typing at 5:24am lol
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
Paul's pretty awesome
closest thing to Magic since Magic.
but I wouldn’t give up on Bynum just yet. He played minimally in the Finals and still made a difference in the outcome.
He’s got too much upside. We’ve all seen how dominating he can be when not injured and when confident. Injuries are part of the game, and he showed us in the Finals he’s willing to play through pain if necessary. Bynum is too important now to give him up, now that he’s maturing.
Paul is no doubt great, but he’s smallish. I’d definitely give up Odom and Blake and a combo of bench guys for him, even future draft picks.
It’s a big man’s league. It’s a big man’s game. Defense wins championships. Don’t forget that.
Magic made me a Laker fan.
by thestuff01 on Jul 22, 2010 6:16 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Except Bynum played a very, very small part in both of the last titles.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Bynum. But you’re talking about Chris Paul! Hell, the guy made Tyson Chandler look like Kareem’s second coming!
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
All Chandler did was dunk.
CP3 would work well IF he’s the same type of player and we could get him for our scraps.
Pipe Dream.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
You're nuts if you think that LA will even offer scraps.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
And I mean that in the most loving, caring way.
If LA are serious about this, then they’ll make a serious offer.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
At what cost?
New starters at pg and c trying to learn the triangle. You would be trading 1 injury concerned guy for 2. I think the Lakers should stay put and hope Bynum is healthy and LO shows up. Or you could trade LO. Other than that, stay put.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
What is this preoccupation with "learning the triangle"?
That only tends to be a problem for players with heads not screwed on straight or can’t shake the urge to throw up shots or fail to make a simple entry pass. The notion that Paul won’t get it very, very quickly is completely ludicrous.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Which one was Gary Payton?
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on Jul 22, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
The headcase
And Paul is such a superior offensive talent to Payton at that juncture that it’s not even close.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Paul is used to having the ball in his hands, though.
Hell, it’ll be tougher for Phil working out a way to run the Triangle while not completely failing to utilise Paul, than it will for Paul to learn the Triangle.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions
People are really cutting Okafor short
He’s not worth franchise player money, but if anything, he’s a solid defensive player who 1) rebounds better than Bynum 2) plays solid post defense due to his bulk and strength 3) covers the pick-and-roll moderately well due to his athleticism. Don’t get me wrong, Bynum is a force defensively when healthy and motivated, but Okafor is no slouch either. Combine that with Paul offering a huge defensive upgrade at the point, and at worst, we break even, or at best, we gain significantly.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
My biggest thing
is that Gasol will be guarded by the other team’s c and not their pf if Bynum is traded.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Per above, that's not a concern at all
As we’ve seen the past two and a half years, Gasol is extremely effective offensively at the five at times in which Odom is out of the game. In any case, Okafor isn’t a good offensive player, but he isn’t chopped liver either. Putting a smaller player on him isn’t an especially good move.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Ok. I see what you guys are saying.
I guess what I’m trying to say is Bynum/Gasol is better offensively than Gasol/Okafor considering that we are going to run the triangle offense and a PG is not an integral part of the offense.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, except we have one of the best perimeter players of our generation
At the point next to another great perimeter player of our generation at the two Somehow, I feel that will make up for the usually uncoordinated Gasol/Bynum pairing.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
....
The deal goes through.
Is Paul/Bryant/Artest/Gasol/Okafor and Fish/Blake/Odom/???/Gasol
better suited for a Championship than what we have now? I’m not so sure that it is.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Err, yeah it is
Brown or Barnes is almost certainly coming in, we’d possibly keep our rookies, and there are plenty of veteran big men still available on the market. Paul/Kobe/Artest/Gasol/Okafor/Fisher/Odom/Barnes is a solid eight-man rotation.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
thanks you
finally, somebody not buying the pipe dream
Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...
I'm not sure getting Paul would be worth it if Bynum is gone.
I guess if Okafor comes, defensively it could work. But offensively, Bynum may be the best offensive true center in the NBA and even as a 3rd or 4th option he’s still difficult to defend. Getting Chris Paul would be nice, but I’m not going to be losing sleep if we don’t get him. After all, we’re still the two-time defending champs.
Ball don't lie.
by East.Coast.Laker.Fan on Jul 22, 2010 6:52 AM PDT reply actions
Bynum
How could you consider trading Bynum? He was a big part of beating the celtics. His big body gives teams a hard time in the paint. Just ask Rondo. If you want to trade people I would trade Odum (He did it to himself not showing up in the last series) Sasha, Blake, Powell, maybe even Walton and some draft picks. Who needs first round draft picks anyway?
Don’t forget Agent 0 may be released from Washington. He may want to go home to LA. With adding Chris Paul (maybe Chukwuemeka Okafor), Agent 0 (who can also play the 2, that would be good with Fisher when Kobe goes to the bench) with Bryant, Gasol, Bynum, and Artest I don’t think Miami, Boston, Orlando or anyone else could handle this team. This would be the Lakers of old!
If that happens then Buss' wallet will explode
Just think of this
Agent 0: 18ish milion
Paul: !5 million
Gasol: 19 million
Kobe: 27 million
Bynum: 15 million
Even this is 94 million, roughly 50 mil over the cap limit.
Add all the role players, and you’ve got a team that sucks up 120 mil a year.
And thats not even the real deal,
Cap fines and tax included, your grand total (see the pun?) adds up to roughly 210 mil a year.
You think that he can pay all that?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
Im not an expert on cap rules
but i think the wizards pay him 18ish million already in addition to what we pay him.
If this is the case then he wouldnt need any more money and could come play for us for peanuts to prove himself to the other teams
He's Chris Fucking Paul.
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
But seriously though, you're crazy if you think Bynum has more potential than Paul.
Also, it’s just ridiculous to say that Bynum is better for the future of the franchise. Bynum’s potential is nowhere near Paul, CP3 was a legit MVP candidate, and the only reason he lost was because of Kobe Bryant. He’s already a franchise player, and Bynum is still far from that. Pau is expensive, so I already doubt that he would be traded for Paul, but as far as talent and championship potential is concerned, Paul is more valuable than Gasol.
Bynum is a good big man, Gasol is a great big man, but Chris Paul is an elite player.
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
PG's are found on trees
Dominant big men, especially ones which are so important on the defensive end like Bynum, are more valuable than PG’s. If you think that there is only one aspect to basketball, scoring, then you MAY be right. But in basketball there are other things that are just as important. If Bynum alters 10 shots that were going in (not blocks, but alters them, causing them to miss) that’s the equivalent of 20 points scored in a game. This is the type of influence that Bynum can have, which CP3 will never have.
Not to mention that CP3 is not the same player he was. And he is no where close to a legitimate MVP candidate. If you have another STUD on your team like West, you can’t fail to do anything signficant and call yourself an MVP.
LOL did you really just say that Chris Pauls are found on tress?
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
I think that tree is called the Championship tree. And is found in the Garden of Eden.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
ohhhh now it all make sense
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
I guess i may need to spell it out for you
Comprehension is not your strong suit after all:
P – G – ’ – S A-R-E
Yeah, except that statement implies that you're referring to Paul
And that elite point guards on Paul’s level grow on trees. And if you really want to go into it, I’d say MVP-caliber point guards are harder to find than borderline All-Star big men.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Holy crap... I absolutely cannot believe what you're saying.
Colour me incredulous.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
Not to mention that CP3 is not the same player he was. And he is no where close to a legitimate MVP candidate. If you have another STUD on your team like West, you can’t fail to do anything signficant and call yourself an MVP.
I think I’ve found one of those people who were in a cave for the last few years.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Jul 22, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad that the Bynum support iis finally turning up!
Bynum is a stud, pure and simple. He is a reason why we have back to back rings, and our biggest trump card going forward (if only he is healthy for next year’s playoffs, you guys are in deep trouble). Bynum actually has more potential on the defensive side of the ball than on the offensive side. How many shots does Bynum alter? The guy sits in the middle, perhaps the most lengthy guy i’ve seen out of 7’6" Yao, and just alters everything coming through the middle. He has added so much muscle and strength to his game, he is on the verge of turning into that dominant intererior presense. And you want to trade this guy, the guy with all the talent in the world, on the verge of putting together somthing really special, for a 6’0" PG, in a system like the triangle that he would be absolutely useless in? Serious?
Not to mention that CP3’s game is based on speed, quickness, etc. With the seriousness of the knee injury, believe me, he will not be the same player. After he came back last year, he was a below average player. I actually think that it is NO that wants to take advantage and trade Paul, and Paul is just going along for the ride. This is the year that NO gets most bang for their buck, while the name of CP3 is still huge and no one has seen just how bad he will be post-injury. Also having him under contract for 2 more years. Not to mention that they believe that their backup, Collison, is basically as good as the new post-injured CP3. They sell high based on name value, get a franchise center in bynum, and get rid of paul.
The Lakers would have to be very stupid to make this trade. Right now when you think of a Lakers vs Heat matchup, you say, how is Haslem/Bosh going to stop Bynum/Pau/Odom? The can’t! You say. what’s lbj/wade going to do coming around the corner and then seeing 3 7+ footers standing in the lane? In the playoffs when they allow physical play?
If the Lakers make this idiotic trade, then they are no longer the favorites
Bynum is a stud, pure and simple.
Well, he is an injury-prone stud, pure and simple.
But you are right, no-one knows the full extent of Paul’s injury or recovery. A big variable.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
injury prone
yes, but with CP3 you’re buying the guy the day he walks out of the hospital after serious injury. Not smart. You need to see him on the court in NBA level competition to see what he is about. AFter the injury, his play was far less than even Collison, his backup.
So you are weighing a RATHER injury prone top 3 center vs. a ONE TIME injury top 5 player, not knowing which has a worse physical future. I say it is a tough choice, not easy at all.
Centers with injury issues historically do not “wear” well.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
seriously tough choice
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
Sarcasm noted.
And agreed with.
Hell, I love Bynum as a player… but you’re talking about the best PG of this generation.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
But in this case it is up to the Lakers to gamble
Reports says that CP3 no longer wants to play for NO and wants to be traded before the start of the season so it does not look like we will see him play before he gets traded.
If the Lakers do not make a move now, some other team will be able to get him.
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
That too
Everyone complaining about this trade will probably change their minds if we’re unfortunate enough to witness the awesome force that is the Paul-Howard pick-and-roll.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Paul-Howard pick and roll.
If the Chemistry develops on that, it > Stockton-Malone as the greatest P&R of all time. Especially with all the shooters they’ll be surrounded with.
It’s like the Bynum-Bosh deal. It seems great for the future, but I wouldn’t want to do it in the middle of a Threepeat due to all the major adjustments that would be required. However, simultaneously, if we had done the Bynum-for-Bosh deal, Miami would not be an issue.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions
amen
I completely recognize that Artest vs. Lebron is not a Lakers victory. We’d be lucky if we could even call a draw from that matchup. And depending on what Kobe we get on any given night, we could even lose the Kobe-Wade matchup. But the key is Pau/Odom vs. Bosh/Haslem and Bynum/Pau vs. Big Z/Haslem/Bosh. I don’t see how the Heat can beat us with this setup.
BUT… the Cavs did wipe the floor with us twice last season using Big Z (who was important), and a bunch of role players surrounding Lebron.
Plyka, it's not an idiotic trade.... You made yourself look stupid right there. How is getting Paul and Okafor and getting some cap space with trading Sasha or Walton "idiotic"?
Wow, talk about a clueless fan.
Well, the same could be said for him to. The fact that he said it's an idiotic trade he is impliyng
that we are idiotic for talking about it. Plus I didn’t call him stupid directly, I just said he made himself look, and for implying that we are idiodic.
I agree
Okafor may have a really bad contract but is still a pretty much above average post player.
I think he should not have been the go to guy in Charlotte but in a team with more offensive weapons where he can concentrate on things he is good at like defense and rebounding he will be very effective.
I would be sad to see Bynum go, but I don’t think Okafor is a huge downgrade.
PLUS WE GET CHRIS FUCKIN PAUL
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Really nice write up on this Ben
The biggest problem I have with the entire concept really IS the triangle. I don’t doubt that Phil could “tweak” the triangle, but it is still the triangle, and the kind of guard that Paul is, a guard who repeatedly exploits his man off the dribble and lives by getting in the paint, a guard that is used to having the ball in his hand, not receiving it on a swing pass, is probably going to HATE the triangle down to his bones. It is just a different philosophy and art of basketball. Gary Payton, who by no means was his younger brilliant self, tells it. Some guards, like he was, cannot stand the triangle. It goes against everything they are about, the rhythm of the game. All the beautiful things that you describe and statistically support, the remarkable play that Paul as achieved, principally have been a product of dominating the kind of basketball that Jackson abhors, non-team, non-synergistic, drive and dish, pick and roll isolation NBA basketball. This basketball is Paul’s Killing Fields.
I completely agree that having another end of the clock creator/finisher would greatly enhance the Laker offense, but Paul is a puppet-master with the ball. It would be like putting Magic in the triangle. He is a maestro. You can put a maestro into end of the shot clock situations and he will perform, but he will not THRIVE in the same way.
That’s just my thought about the trade. I think Paul would be reduced in the triangle no matter how many tweaks are made to it. I’m not completely against the trade because I believe that players like Paul bring Championships, but I don’t think that we would be getting a full Paul in our offense.
When Phil leaves though, I can’t imagine a better player to take us out of the Triangle Jackson Era, into possibly another string of three-peats.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
Hrm, yeah, "tweak" is perhaps a poor choice of words
Given that the triangle is the triangle. In that sense, I’d imagine we’d go to a bit more screen roll plays, especially given that Gasol and Odom are highly competent at it. Phil won’t like it, but again, I sincerely doubt that he’s not going to reconstruct the offense to incorporate Paul’s talents.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Also, it's ridiculous to think that our players and coaching staff are just one trick ponys.
If you take away our height advantage, then that means we’re screwed right? Because our Lakers can’t possibly be smart enough to make adjustments and exploit a new advantage. And Phil Jackson obviously doesn’t know how to win without decent big man, so if you take away one of our 7 footers, then we’re royally screwed.
/sarcasm
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
A defensive front line has always been a key component of all of Jackson’s Championship teams.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I agee but...
even if we lose Bynum, Okafor is not a bad post defender.
Although he is a tad smaller
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Yeah, he's an above average one
We’re not losing a whole lot defensively with this, plus you get Paul at the point, which is a huge defensive upgrade on whatever we have there.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
It'll be a complete reversal
I remember the Spurs Vs Hornets series a few years back, where I really started watching Paul closely. Tony Parker was still at his best, and he couldn’t even catch Chris Paul, or avoid him on the offensive end. Dude’s quick.
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
He had Horace and Cartwright, two VERY good defensive frontline players, and he had Wennington and Longley very underestimated defensive frontline players.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Besides the fact that Rodman was one of the best reboudners to ever play the game
And one of the all-time great defensive players.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
rebounders*
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Very true, although we do have a little bit of a “Rodman” ourselves (not as a rebounder, but as a lock down defender, best in the league at his position).
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The price to pay for Chris Paul would be high.
And we don’t really need a point guard of Paul’s abilities with Kobe in his prime.
But if we did get Paul, the future would get much brighter, and there is not another player in the league I would rather see join the Lakers as the franchise player to succeed Kobe.
Its good news that he listed the Lakers no matter what happens.
But if we did get Paul, the future would get much brighter, and there is not another player in the league I would rather see join the Lakers as the franchise player to succeed Kobe.
I would prefer Durant
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
Typing Fail
But if we did get Paul, the future would get much brighter, and there is not another player in the league I would rather see join the Lakers as the franchise player to succeed Kobe.
I would prefer Durant
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
I also prefer Durant
but it doesn’t look like we will be able to pry him from OKC. so CP3 is not a bad alternative.
Not bad at all.
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
In that case,
would you do a Kobe/ Kevin Durant + Westbrook trade?
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
But that is never gonna happen
It will not make sense for OKC to trade their two young stars for KObe.
Durant is already their Kobe in there and he is only 21
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Durant is staying OKC
not just because of the contract, but because he has a chance to make something of himself in a new basketball city in OKC.
Kobe: "If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail," he says, laughing. "You know what I mean? Fuck it."
It's good to dream
but let’s be realistic here…
Like i said in another post, most players will obviously put the Lakers on their list just for bargaining.
No one wants to see the Lakers get any better other than us, which makes it more of a bargaining chip than anything else.
Kobe: "If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail," he says, laughing. "You know what I mean? Fuck it."
D12 and CP3..........sounds like Star Wars doesn't it??
The NBA is starting to have it’s own “Star” wars………..what’s next WWF in the NBA??
I don’t think Chris Paul goes anywhere but I didn’t think Bron would put his tail between his legs and scurry down here to Florida either…..so you never know……..
yeah……..and no……..you guys don’t need to get any better………share the wealth already!
Just one man's opinion...
"mark my words...we will draft 2 corners within the first 4 picks" - 2009
"mark my words...we will draft 4 new linebackers this off-season" - 2010
Will this trade make the Lakers better or will it create a bigger whole in the front court?
7 footers dont come a dime a dozen. If the idea that Bynum’s injury ridden past is a big motivation for trading him, doesn’t that apply to Okafur as well?
A Lakers team with Blake and Fisher at the PG and Bynum at the Center position is more balanced and has the height advantage that others are still trying to duplicate.
I agree that Paul in a Lakers uniform is intriguing but not at the cost of losing height. If the Lakers never had signed Blake and Fisher’s contract was still up in the air I would say do it but the Lakers no longer have any weaknesess.
Agree
We need Bynum, cause he’s the top offensive center in the league now, behind Yao. Also, his work on the defensive side is pretty unknown. He’s basically a moving tree, altering shots and grabbing the Boards. Besides, I’m pretty confident in Bynum to become a reliable center in the future; he could be a Illgauskus type, who was injury prone in the beginning, and then turned into a reliable, hard working player.
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
So... you'd basically give up Chris Paul for a guy who you see as having Z's potential?
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
No he's saying that Bynum is a better fit right now
Let’s say we meet the heat in the finals, the best way to beat them is on the inside. Now take bynum out, do you really want to rely on Odom every night? What happens to our bench? where do we get another big with almost no money? Now let’s say that we get Okafar + Paul (which i wouldn’t mind), do you want to watch Okafar+Paul+Artest+ whatever scraps we find to put on our depleted bench after such a trade trying to figure the triangle? No way we would the championship.
Kobe, God and I don't tweet. Everyone else does.
He didn't say Z's potential
He said an injury history like Z who had a lot at the beginning, but then played perfectly without injury the rest of his career. He is not talking about basketball abilities here.
Everyone needs to step back and look at this situation.
First, we don’t know if Paul is going to be the same type of player as he was before the injury.
Second, the departure of Bynum would move Pau back over and Odom into the starting line-up, which would weaken the front court.
Third, the Lakers have Blake and Fischer. You could use Blaker at the two though.
In my opinion, the only way the Lakers would be interested is if Odom is part of the deal. He has basically produced way below what we expect of him. Unfortunately, I doubt that a package of Odom, Vujacic, Walton, and 1st rounders is enough to beat out another offer.
Finally, lay off the Kool-Aid. If you get overpumped about it being Chris Paul, (posters and organization included) you’re going to lose perspective on this team. Yes, we’ll need to be better to repeat again, but Paul is not likely coming here.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
This would be the best scenario for the Lakers..
Odom, Vujacic, Walton, and 1st rounders
but I am not really concerned if they do or dont get him. With the Blake signing I am happy with the way the Lakers are constructed right now. Right now I think the Lakers have a decent back up for Artest in Ebanks if they sign him. Just need a back up Center.
I agree with you.
If this team stays healthy and Odom actually shows up, I don’t think we’re going to be beat.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes..
I think that its easy to get excited about Paul but when you step back and look at the big picture I really dont see the reason for the trade. No matter how good the line up looks with Paul in it.
Odom and others for him looks good.
However, this is contingent on Paul being the same player and NO wanting our offer.
That said, it’s not going to happen.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
The notion that NO will take Odom as the centerpiece of a package for Paul
Is positively ludicrous. In any case, if Okafor comes back in the deal, he takes all of Bynum’s minutes, and provides much of the same defensive presence. Combine that with Paul manning the point and if anything, our defense improves given that we have a player who can actually stay in front of a penetrating point guard on top of Paul’s ball hawking skills. There is literally almost no drop-off in that scenario on either end.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
It's not more ludicrous than what you just said
If we trade away Bynum and take Okafor/Paul our defense will be better, lol. That was the most ludicrous statement i’ve read on these pages. Paul is an offensive threat, no doubt, but at 5’2" he can’t defend anyone. There is a difference between being quick and gambling in the passing lanes to get your 1 or 2 steals per game. But that doesn’t mean you’re actually a good man to man defender.
And replace a player like Bynum and to claim that Okafor is basically like him is the end, i mean, i can’t believe anyone could actually believe this rubbish…
Paul is 5'2''?
You’re not helping your argument with gratuitous amounts of hyperbole. He stays in front of his man fairly well in regular man-to-man schemes and has the quickness to do so, which is far more than any of our current point guards can do. As I indicated in the article, his main drawback is his size making it difficult for him to run out on shots, but he’s otherwise solid. Regardless of whatever you think of him, he’s miles better than Fisher or Blake at the position.
As for Okafor, he’s a solid defensive big. He doesn’t have Bynum’s upside, but he’s much more disciplined and uses his bulk well in post defense and is a better rebounder than Bynum. Bynum’s primary contribution on the defensive end came much more from his size providing a deterrent in the middle than outright defensive smarts and Okafor has much more of the latter.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
LOL you think Paul is a bad defender?
He’s been to 2 All-NBA defensive teams. Second in ’08, first in ’09.
"Anyone crazy enough to mess with me is crazy enough to play with me." - Kobe
Dangand
Part of me wants Chris Paul, I mean these are Kobe’s last couple years and I want him to go all out these final seasons. Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant is destiny (if cp3 comes to LA) because both being drafted and traded to and from the Hornets franchise, but just imagine Kobe and Chris Paul backcourt… and we get rid of Andrew Bynum’s glass knees and Luke Walton’s and Sasha Vujacic’s contracts. It would be major upgrade but then we lose a presence down low, and Andrew Bynums size,length and potential. I for one am a Bynum supporter in Lakers nation but I want that 3peat and possible more championships and having the west on lock… then let’s get this done.
" I wanna be the best, I wanna be the best simple and plain and to be the best you have to win and thats what drives me" -Kobe Bryant
by 15xtimeNBAchamps on Jul 22, 2010 7:57 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
What about CP3 and his knee issues?
Don’t be blinded by the glitter and glam of this idea.
I would only say yes if it’s Odom, not Bynum that’s traded. Yet, that isn’t going to happen so.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
True
I would keep Andrew Bynum, he is capable of being a 18 and 10 this season in my eyes, only 22 and a good offensive game. Like I said I am a Andrew Bynum supporter, but what if we do this… Lamar Odom,Sasha Vujacic,Luke Walton and 2 scound rounders for Chris Paul and Omeka Okafor. Fuck but at the same time all those MJ supporters and doubters on Kobe being the best Laker and seco!nd thoughts on KB24’s legacy and all that shit! But then like I said these are Kobe’s last years and if this does go down, we could lock the west for the next 4 years…
" I wanna be the best, I wanna be the best simple and plain and to be the best you have to win and thats what drives me" -Kobe Bryant
by 15xtimeNBAchamps on Jul 22, 2010 8:17 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It won't happen.
First, those 2 second rounders would need to be first rounders.
Second, I doubt NO would want that deal.
Third, I am not sure how the salaries would work out. Jerry Buss probably doesn’t want to add too much more salary.
I can see why you are so excited, but Paul was outperformed by his back-up last season. And, if what someone said about his meniscus being removed is true, then I’d rather take a risk on Bynum’s knees than I would Chris Paul’s.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually sasha,luke and lamars upcoming expiring contracts are valuable and NO doesn’t seem like there keeping CP3. I take a shot at offering like you said 1 first rounder, LO,Luke and Sashas contract for just CP3 and then we get a veteran big man. How bout that?
" I wanna be the best, I wanna be the best simple and plain and to be the best you have to win and thats what drives me" -Kobe Bryant
by 15xtimeNBAchamps on Jul 22, 2010 8:31 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't believe LO has an expiring contract.
If he does, someone correct me.
We would all love what you propose because Odom never shows up and Luke and Sasha are not starters. However, it is a pipe dream.
NO has ownership issues, Paul may not be the same player, and NO will not accept what you propose. They’ll want Bynum. Bynum’s biggest contribution is that he moves Pau over to the 4.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah i dont think so
Fuck it, were getting over heads here, this shit ain’t happening.
" I wanna be the best, I wanna be the best simple and plain and to be the best you have to win and thats what drives me" -Kobe Bryant
by 15xtimeNBAchamps on Jul 22, 2010 8:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This entire article points out one major thing
dribble penetration. maybe you guys now better understand my discomfort in letting Farmar go and signing Steve Blake. We now have only ONE FUCKING PLAYER who can dribble penetrate from the perimeter.
Of course, this is also the true reason why Shannon Brown has not been resigned yet, because Mitch is on the hunt for someone who is fast and can penetrate the defenses with a dribble like Farmar. Brown cannot. In fact, Brown isn’t even better than Sasha Vujacic, so I don’t know why we are even thinking about bringing him back.
You look for other dribble penetrating players via trade then.
Paul wasn’t his usual self at the end of last year.
If you want to ditch a 7 footer, then let it be Odom for a lesser player.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
But I like Odom
Terribly inconsistent but creates so much match-up problems with other teams.
Plus, it looks like NO will force us to take Okafor’s bad contract so we may as well use him as replacement for Bynum if he gets traded for CP3
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Odom rarely ever takes advantage of those match-up problems.
I’ll go on record as saying that if you’re going to deal Bynum, you probably want to deal Odom as well.
Okafor doesn’t fit in this system, but if you do take him, I’d like to deal Odom.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldnt want to trade both
Its one or the other for me.. Both have their own problems.
Odom with consistency and Bynum with his constant injuries.
Bu they do fulfill their own roles with the team, and losing both could be a big blow.
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Go back to those playoff threads and look at the cries for Odom to produce.
I would deal him regardless of this CP3 thing.
Bynum’s most valuable contribution to this team is that when he’s in the game, he puts Gasol @ the 4.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup I know
But Odom is the anchor of the second unit and our bench is already thin as it is.
And he does provide relief to the Lakers whenever Bynum goes down with an injury.
I am not anti-Bynum by the way,
it just looks like that if this CP3 trade is going to happen, Bynum will be the main piece.
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Let say the deal goes down.
Paul and Okafor for Bynum, Sasha, Walton, and 2 First Rounders.
You would have Paul/Kobe/Artest/Gasol/Okafor.
You’re bench would become weaker in my opinion. Sasha is a shooter when he is on and Walton knows the offense.
Add in the fact that they would have to learn the offense. I’m not sure the risk of altering a Championship team too much is worth it.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
You have a point
The bench would really be thin without sasha and Luke even if they barely contributed last year.
On the other hand, we did survive without their contributions and this is a chance to get CP3.
Plus Blake or Fisher is still there to man Odom and whoever will be on the 2nd unit.
Man, tough decision.
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
The bench would become weaker?
Ebanks would take all of Walton’s minutes and honestly, would provide far more effective play given how often Walton is out. Vujacic’s minutes can be replaced by resigning Brown. Also, given that we would practically nearly always field one of Paul/Kobe/Gasol on the floor, I find it very difficult to believe that there will ever be a huge drop-off until garbage time.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Gasol can be bogged down next year without Bynum
Our big advantage over Miami is Bynum. Without him, Gasol loses something on offense.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Err, no he doesn't
If anything, Bynum made him less effective because they had to take turns on the block. Our offense was always at its best when Gasol was paired with Odom on the floor because of how deft their interior passing was and because Odom’s driving skill allowed Gasol to isolate his man on the block. Okafor is just going to sit on the weakside and wait for offensive rebounds or open buckets.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
We shall agree to disagree.
I don’t think trading Bynum is the correct action to take unless you are going to change the offense in some way.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay...
Although you’re relying on arguments that have mostly been proven false in the last two years.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
There are not very many elite centers.
There are a lot, comparitively, of elite point guards.
I guess I’ll be stubborn and stick with Bynum.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Err, okay
Except Paul is head and shoulders above the point guard pack (unless you’re a devoted Deron Williams supporter, but I digress). He’s a top five player currently, while Bynum is perhaps a top five center and a top 30 player. We’d get a serviceable defensive big man back in the deal that would result in practically no drop-off on defense.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
If Paul were healthy
and at the level he was, I would be more inclined to agree. Collison outperformed him.
Not to mention how Blake and Fischer would feel about this.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he didn't
And Collison was damn good last year, but he definitely didn’t approach Paul’s level by any standard.
As for Blake and Fisher, that’s about the least of our worries here.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I dont think that the Lakers major success has come off of dribble penetration
Their success has come off more from their rebounding and defense in the paint.
I Agree
See Game 7 against Celtics.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh, I remember our offense sucking royally for most of the game
Until we managed to get to the line in the fourth quarter.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
The Celtics had something to do with our offense not producing.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but a lot of that was due to the fact
That we were simply an above average offensive team last year instead of an elite one. With no one besides Artest producing at a decent clip, Boston was free to send ridiculous amounts of help at Kobe. That doesn’t happen with Paul in the same backcourt.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
True, except Okafor is a better rebounder than Bynum
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
A healthy bynum will be a better rebounder than a healthy okafur
both are injury risks.
"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader
Okafor's played full seasons the past 3 years.
stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette
Okafor's rebounding numbers have been better than Bynum's
In practically every year of his career.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
yes but offensively Bynum gives the Lakers a better advantage. There is no way
that Okafur is a better offensive player than Bynum is. Sorry but he is not.
"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader
Okafor playing a full game
> Bynum playing 20
"Anyone crazy enough to mess with me is crazy enough to play with me." - Kobe
Uh, yeah
I never argued for that point. In the larger context though, Paul/Okafor >>>> Fisher/Bynum any day of the week on offense. It’s not close.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Jalen Rose is suggesting LRMR is involved in Paul pushing his way out of New Orleans. Although CP3 to the Lakers is my worst nightmare, I think it would be incredibly ironic if it happened. Lebron is probably the most hated player among Laker fans and his company could be involved in getting the best PG in the game to the Lakers.
As for Paul not fitting in your offense…you guys have the greatest coach of all time, I think he’ll make it work.
#1 LBJ and A-Rod fan
Haters gonna hate.
Haha what’s up cavslebronfan
" I wanna be the best, I wanna be the best simple and plain and to be the best you have to win and thats what drives me" -Kobe Bryant
by 15xtimeNBAchamps on Jul 22, 2010 8:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
lawl
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
rec'd
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.
Pretty hard choices
I love Bynum and I think he will be a key piece of the team’s future but it is also difficult to pass up on an opportunity to get a player like CP3.
Whatever Mitch and company do in this situation is fine with me.
If it does not happen, we are still formidable as we are now
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Did we forget that Kobe is the point guard in the 4th?
Kobe doesn’t always bring the ball up, but he pretty much has the ball in his hands 85% of the time in the last minutes of the 4th quarter.
Forget the whole “if we lose Bynum and get Okafor” argument or “3 point guard situation.” Let’s look at the backcourt situation. Is Chris Paul, who ALWAYS, had the ball in his hands in every level of basketball he’s played going to be effective when the ball isn’t in his hands? (Because Kobe isn’t giving the ball up, and I’d rather it be in his hands than Chris Paul). Can Chris Paul turn into the D-Fish role by knocking down jumpers?
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
Aaaaaand... you don't think Kobe could cope? Or adjust?
Selling the man way short.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
The more we talk about this, the more I see both sides of the the argument.
And I’ve realized how I would like to see a trade of Odom.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Sheer fantasy.
New Orleans are NEVER going to bite on a trade centered around Lamar Odom.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
Exactly.
But I’d like Odom sent elsewhere.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Adendum to scenario 2
If getting such a player like Paul is available, I say go for it. With a slight adendum. In addition to dumping Sasha, Walton, and a 1st rd pick, I say we also include Steve Blake.
Yes, I know, would be kinda shitty to pick up a guy and then use him to acquire someone else. But hey, that’s the nature of the business. Chris Paul is a once in a while PG that would truely help us in ways unimaginable.
NO should jump off a ledge at this one. For starters, no, Walton will never be confused with the likes of say, Carlos Boozer. But, there is no doubt, the guy plays with a ton of heart and is a servicable rebounder. In Sasha, they get a pure shooting nightmare, (when he’s on), not to mention the fact, at 6’7", he’s a load as a 2 guard. Bynum when healthy is among the top 5 at his position. And although I think it would amrt a ton for the Lakers to get rid of him, we still have 2 young big men coming in from this years draft.
The first rd pick IMO is simply a trade finisher. The icing on the cake if you will. Moreover, most of the afformentioned players, (with the exception of Blake who just signed his contract) have contracts that are due to come off the books relatively soon. Thereby giving NO more Cap room to pursuade potential free agents like Billups and Mol in the up coming seasons. Not a bad postion to be in for a stuggling franchise.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
Ummm... major flaw in your inclusion of Blake.
He can’t be traded until mid-December.
And NOLA are the team who might be trading the franchise guy. They will have no shortage of suitors. LA would be in no position to put in ultimatums (regardless of how impossible they are).
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
CP3 is not becoming a Laker and this is something I am praying for. I heard all the talk about Lebron jumping ship going to Miami to win a ring from the Laker fans so where’s that same talk about CP3 joining your Laker team. The saddest thing about is that Lebron was a free agent that could have signed any where and CP3 is a player that the Lakers are willing to trade one of their valuable pieces for to try to compete with the Heat. Man, talking about ironic I would laugh if it happens and blows up in their face bc one thing I can say for the previous teams that repeated such as the Spurs and the Bulls, they never tried tofix it if it wasn’t broken. I’m a Kobe fan, Gasol and I like Bynum but if Kobe wants to be like MJ he needs to step in and say, “There’s nothing wrong with this formula we got working here. Let’s keep this thing in tact and ride this wave until we can’t ride it no more”. It’s ridicuolous for ppl to say trade Bynum bc he’s injury proned, well I don’t know any player who hasn’t gotten hurt what you really need to be focusing on is that this kid is only 23 yrs old.
dude, you're not making any sense
The Lakers along with Kobe have now been to 7 NBA finals and won 5 NBA championships in the last decade. This recent DYNASTY has been to the NBA finals for 3 consequtive years and won 2 back to back championships.
Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Miami —they have done nothing. Why would the lakers want to copy not winning? Maybe if they actually win something, then we can talk.
haha
I love all the ideas and talk this rumor has spurred. All that I read is that he listed the Lakers as one of the teams that he would like to play for. Nothing more.
It would be amazing if the Lakers did get him somehow, though, and if he was the same player he was a couple of years ago when he just shredded defenses with his sick passing and ball handles.
After this, I’ll reserve comment until there is more meaty evidence of this happening, which will be never, because the Lakers don’t roll that way, remember? So, given the Lakers M.O., this is nothing more than just a rumor and a temporary talking point. It’s fun to think about though.
Magic made me a Laker fan.
At least its no longer about LeBron
Its much more fun to talk about the possibility of CP3 in a Lakers uniform
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Agreed.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
That's just a tough tough call
There’s no doubt in my mind that either trade would be an upgrade in talent, which is theoretically good.
But you’ve heard of pennywise and pound foolish? This is the exact opposite, poundwise and penny foolish. This move would set up the Lakers to compete with the Heat for years to come, but it would come at the expense of reducing their chances of winning this year. With a major trade like this, we would be going through just as much learning curve as the Heat, either trying to fit Chris Paul into a system he’s never played in, or trying to change a back to back championship system to fit Chris Paul.
Besides, this move would basically just make us the Heat v. 2. Think about it, we’d have two superstar perimeter players and a top 10-15 PF. Yes, we’d have a bit more talent outside those three, but the crunch time lineups would be nearly identical, right down to playing two PFs and no center down the stretch.
Kobe is the clear leader of this team, but if we’re going to take down the Heat, it will be because we can dominate them inside. Two time defending champions don’t change everything up to react to the other guys, it’s other team’s jobs to react to us.
by C.A. Clark on Jul 22, 2010 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
I agree.
Bynum fits best now, but in 2-3 years Paul would fit best.
Bynum could be the best at his position where there are not very many dominant centers. Paul is one of the best at a very talent rich position.
It’s a tough decision.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
And ironically
the best fit for each other would be for both to be on the team.
A Bynum CP3 combo would be competitive for the next decade if Drew could stay even remotely healthy.
The Laker future would be bright is we had the Bynum-Paul P&R.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow
Competing with the Heat
Finally, somebody who knows about basketball!!! I agree with you 100%. If the Lakers make this move it’s only bc they’re playing a chess match with the Miami Heat, trying to match their playmaking ability from the perimeter. The only way the Lakers beat the Heat is with the dominant play of their 2 seven footers. I don’t see adding CP3 to the Laker working in their favor bc now you’re vulnerable on the inside and really can’t show the strenghts you once had. Plain and simple if they make this move than you forget about the Lakers 3peating.
by tremac on Jul 22, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the last line.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions
wait till december to do this.....
CP3 & Posey
for
Odom, Blake, Sasha & Ebanks + 2 first round picks
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow
Not going to happen.
You would have 0 bench.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Problem is he might not be in NO anymore in December
Reports said that he does not even want to play a single game for NO anymore.
So this might be the only chance to get him.
This is a really tough decision for Mitch and Dr. Buss if he really wants to play for the Lakers
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
Then do Odom, Sasha, Luke, Ebanks & 2 picks
Laker Roster:
PG: Chris Paul, Derek Fisher
SG: Kobe Bryant, Steve Blake, Shannon Brown
SF: Ron Artest, James Posey, Tim Thomas
PF: Pau Gasol, Derrick Caracter, Josh Boone
C: Andrew Bynum, Kurt Thomas
Re-sign shannon for cheaper than what he was goona get before he opted out, pay Tim Thomas & Kurt Thomas the veterans minimum and sign Josh Boone for the rest of the MLE.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow
NO isn't moronic enough to take that offer
Bynum has to be included in these scenarios or they aren’t happening.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
They will have to better than this
There’s no way the Hornets accept this when it’s clear that Bynum is more younger and more of an All Star caliber player; that’s exactly what the Lakers are going to have to give up for an All Star PG in Chris Paul. I wouldn’t even give up Posey for Sasha so basically this deal between these teams isn’t good; especially for the Lakers, bc when push comes to shove, I think they would miss Bynum’s size, athletic ability, shot blocking, rebounding, and his scoring more than the Hornets would miss CP3 and his playmaking ability.
Well, ignoring the other parts of your post
They’d give up Posey for Sasha in a heartbeat. Saves them quite a bit of money.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
How about Shannon Brown for Chris Paul
Sounds very tempting to NO … hahaha
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on Jul 22, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever
No you would, Posey is way better than Sasha; he brings everything to the table night in and night out. He defends, plays hard nose defense, rebounds, and can hit the open 3; with Sasha, you never know what you’re going to get; that’s why you hardly ever see him in the game.
NO needs to cut salary desperately
To resolve their ownership situation. The basketball part of the trade is entirely irrelevant and is part of the reason Paul is on the block at all.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
well, the hornets don't have to trade him right now
as broussard said on sportscenter, paul doesn’t really have any leverage right now, he still has two years left on his contract. next year, though, and the year after when his contract is expiring, then he’ll have much more leverage and can actually force a trade. for now the hornets can just sit tight and let him whine.
If you wrong us, shall we not revenge? - William Shakespeare
Too long of an acclimation period to do the trade in November.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Is it safe to say that this is just an empty argument?
Do any of us really believe that this will happen come August or September? I think not.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Jul 22, 2010 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
My real gut feeling?
Nothing will come of this. But for that 5% chance that something happens, and the announcement will come out of no where, I’ll be ready.
Sweet 16
That's a pointless argument
“The chances of it happening are small, so why are we talking about it” isn’t very compelling.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Indeed we can entertain ourselves
HEY EVERYONE, I HEARD KEVIN DURANT WANTS TO BE TRADED TO THE LAKERS……discuss.
Well let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west. A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness.
by pharoah on Jul 22, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
mello found out kmart had an affair with his mom
and wants to leave cleveland denver as soon as possible
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.
by Czheck on Jul 22, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see it happening
The triangle doesn’t require a great point guard, like you said. The Lakers have Fish and Blake already locked in there. I’m sure Phil would adjust to give Paul more of a role, but I don’t see them ending up with him.
I also don’t like the idea of trading Bynum. One of the biggest reason the Lakers are so good is two very strong big men at the frontcourt. Paul would give LA one of the best backcourts in basketball, but I don’t think it’s worth it at the cost of losing both height and talent with Andrew Bynum at center. Bynum is young and only starting to mature. I’d like to see what he can do.
"I'm looking at 600 as first base. I want to run right through it and use it as a platform and a spring board for more to come"- Alex Rodriguez
“…Sources told Broussard on Thursday that the Knicks and Magic are on Paul’s list of preferred destinations, but the Lakers are not. Sources told Broussard that the Portland Trail Blazersand Dallas Mavericks are also in the running if Paul were to be traded….”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5399241
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
by wondahbap on Jul 22, 2010 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
blam
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.
Hrm, Broussard vs. Berger
The former’s sources are still likely centered around LeBron’s camp or his marketing agency and I’m not sure where Berger takes his sources from, although he’s been consistently reliable for the most part.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Yeah, sure Chris wants to go to sucky teams (except the Magic) right....... Broussard doesn't know jack.
those sucky teams are the Knicks, Blazers, Dallas…
Yea
But they all have a better shot than NO will. (Assuming a deal happens)
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
They do but I don't think they will.
Unless the Lakers know Bynum has something wrong with him, or the team wants to go in a different way, then keep Bynum.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
not going to happen
i think its pretty ridiculous to even talk about. i dont see him leaving NO at all.
just like the bosh story alot of hype
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.
The best part of this trade request is that Laker fans all over the net
no longer have to talk about Lebron. Even if it is temporarily. Thank you CP3 for giving something else to talk about.
by Jelly Bean on Jul 22, 2010 9:53 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm all for getting Paul
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
If I was the Lakers, there’s no way I do this . What happened to the slogan, "if it’s not broken, don’t fix it!! the reason we won the series with the Thunder was b/c of their size, the reason they won the series against the Jazz was bc of their size. I am a Chris Paul fan but he doesn’t necessary make this Lakers team any better than it already is. Phil runs the triangle and that takes the ball out of the PG hands so my question is, if your offense does that, than why bring in arguably the best PG in the game.If the Lakers are in doubt of their backcourt than get involved in a 3 team trade, send Paul to the Magic or Knicks and get Felton or Nelson along with what other pieces to accomodate the trade. It’s really not hard being a GM so Buss make it happen and get it done!!!!!!!
LOL, for a new guy, you're awfully mouthy, aren't you?
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
Not really though, because I've been here for almost a year lurking, of course Iv'e been a fan longer, since I picked the Raiders as my fave football team.
that there tells you I’m no bandwagoner.
:)
Oh, but i'm just being mouthy because tremac, it seems, fails to see the good this trade will bring.
He’s basically just saying “No! No!” without giving a good reason why not. He’s just saying “Bynum is dominant” and that’s it that reason alone is flawed because he is almost always injured. It brings up good debate though.
:)
Never called you a bandwagoner, but you yourself said to Chris that you're new here.
And yes I’m new, I see you never fail at making your presence felt for all the newbies that post.
by Starburst. on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Tremac doesn’t like the trade, but that doesn’t make him stupid any more than you liking the trade makes you stupid. That’s why I called you mouthy.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
That was a somewhat lie, yes I made my account yesterday, but I used to be a poster months ago but something happened.
If you know what I mean…
I just wanted to give my opinion over this, but I do hope to be able to comment freely and frequently.
just follow the rules of the blog is all...
If you think “…tremac, please shut up now….” is respectful, then please reconsider. The single-most thing that sets SSR apart from the rest of the blogosphere is the respect that we have come to expect from each other. You claim to have been lurking for some time now (or are you actually that Some-color and Some-other-color For Life guy that up and disappeared one day? …if you know what I mean…). Did you fail to notice how people can express themselves with passion, but in a way that isn’t demeaning to their SSR neighbors? Come on…if you want to blow off some steam just take a quick trip to Yahoo and vent with the kobedunks of the world.
Sure, comment frequently and passionately. Knock yourself out. Just don’t go ruining this haven we’ve got here.
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well-known is this, "Never get into a pissing contest with Kobe Bryant!"
by bigdeal1188 on Jul 23, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
oh I see what you are saying bigdeal1188. I should just agree with tremac.
I agree tremac, you may have been here longer than I so…. I don’t know what I am talking about and yes Bynum is dominant even when he is not 100%. Bynum himself is better than Chris Paul and Okafor combined. Like you said “if it’s not broken don’t fix it.” lol
btw I’ve seen how those yahoo guys comment and it’s pure profanity. It’s insulting that you refer me to go over there. You are very classy yourself.
But I do notice this place has… different style, for say.. the football blogs? I guess it’s just the violence of the sport that influence a more different aspect in commenting. Sorry if “shut up” was to much, I’ll substitute it with “I disagree.”
Originally I was against trading for Paul because we would lose Bynum
but if we get Paul and Okafor, I’m all in favor of this trade. Okafor may have a lot less upside than Bynum, but if we get him, we can keep Odom on the bench for some stability. He’s a pretty good defender and is a better rebounder than Bynum. Also he has played in all his games the past 3 seasons, something Bynum has yet to do.
The thing though is if we get Okafor too, I get the sense the Hornets might ask for Odom, but I am not sure.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
they already have west.
i dont think they have a need for odom. they would want some young talent, maybe some draft picks and expiring contracts.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow
by LakersFoEva on Jul 22, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Odom only has value for an up-and-coming team
Or a playoff team. No point for a rebuilding team to have him in the later years of his prime.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
There’s no way you trade Bynum to a team in your conference. Lakers need to forget all about this Bynum trade bc to be honest, he is one if not the biggest reason they are as effective as they are on the interior. He demands several double teams, he’s a shot blocker, and he’s an excellent rebounder (offensive & defensive). I can’t see Odom being inserted into the starting line up dealing with monsters at the 4 spot like an Amare’, David West, in which Odom would have to guard bc you sent Bynum down to N.O. so Gasol has to TRY to check Bynum, Aldridge, Bosh, Boozer, and even Garnett. They really better think hard about this one bc this move could just hurt their chances in the playoffs especially with teams like the Heat who will be attacking the rim often; You’re going to need some lenght back their to protect the basket bc if you don’t, you better either get out the way or get dunked on. (posterized) One more thing, they better loook at the addition Dallas got in a 7 foot Chandler giving them now 3 7 footers.; Portland also has 3 6’11" – 7 footers on their roster. Jerry Buss you better think about this one.
by tremac on Jul 22, 2010 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
lol do we really want a Paul and a Pau… it would be announcing nightmare. If I could get a guarantee I would never hear the two mixed up for one another, then I okay this deal
In Kobe we trust!
teh win!
Now we just have to resign Josh and get Leon Powe so we can hear:
Joel: Paul to Pau, Pau passes to Powe, Powe pops a three, Powell — the rebound… Powell back to Paul, I mean Pau, now Pau to Paul, Paul — the alley-oop to Pau, score!
Stu: Noice!
"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23
LOL
the P – Lineup
PG- Paul
SG – Powe
SF – (whoever, can’t think of any)
PF- Pau
c- Powell
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
PAUL PIERCE
Now you know -- Manny Pacquaio
Facebook
Let this be a reminder to all of us; without competition, without that possibility (and realization) of failure, success would be meaningless. -- Zephid, FB&G
Lakers has to realize that doing this trade, you make the Hornets a better team upfront with West and Bynum and that should be the last thing they should want to do considering the Hornets are a team from the West. When you add Bynum to that team you have a Bynum, West, Peja, Thorton, and Collison that’s a team that could play your style and pace so I don’t know about this. Okafor isn’t a scorer so you really lose there and far as defense, Bynum does that as well. For all these ppl who’s talking about trading Bynum must not be true Laker fans bc if you were you would know how they won their majority of their games; with the prescence of 2 dominant seven footers.
by tremac on Jul 22, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I really hate people who throw out the "you're not a real fan" line
Consider for a moment that people have different opinions than you and that they’re perfectly legitimate. In any case, NO is the least of our worries, considering that 1) West is old, has injury issues, and will be a non-factor in a few years 2) Collison is a few years away from carrying this team to anywhere of importance (although he’s already solid) 3) there will be a metric ton of holes on this team when their bad contracts expire and they don’t bring them back. Besides, I seriously doubt a Paul/Kobe/Artest/Gasol/Okafor lineup will worry at all about dealing with any non-Miami/Orlando/Boston team in the game.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
omg this dude doesn't stfu. Look we love this team and we are looking out for the future, it's the big concerns
that come into play regarding: Can Bynum play a full season healthy? that is the main reason we are talking about this. If he were healthy all last year I would have said hell no to trading Bynum. It’s about whats best for the team, I could care less for just one player. It’s a team game!!!
Plus Okafor is a little bit less than Bynum Defensively so you lose nothing there on the D aspect of the game. What we do lose is height, and offense but Chris Paul will make up for it. Now you have Paul guarding good/great PG’s well. It seems to me that you are just being ignorant and not trying to understand or think well.
you can't teach height
and okafor is just about past the age where you can teach polish.
bynum has both.
If you wrong us, shall we not revenge? - William Shakespeare
Calm down
and don’t take so much offense to what he is saying. You disagree, we get it. Let him post what he wants to post without attacking every single one of his comments. Especially when it seems you are insulting him as much as his argument.
Play nice now.
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."--Cormican on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM PDT
Dwight Howard could cause us problems without Bynum as both teams progress.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Except Gasol guards Howard much better than Bynum
Because Howard’s asset is his speed, not his power, as the ’09 Finals indicated.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I'd much rather give up LO than Bynum
Don’t get me wrong I like LO,but his contribution has been very inconsistent. & on the plus side we get to see Khloe less often. Bynum’s size is irreplaceable , especially against Boston, Miami & the likes even if he just stands there & doesn’t do much
DING DING DING
You’re last sentence says it all.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
He just ruled the lakers out.
Just heard it on espn 2 he just ruled the lakers out.
THE "U"
by 28years a laker fan on Jul 22, 2010 12:40 PM PDT reply actions
I saw that too.
"What are you, stupid? It doesn't take a rocket doctor to figure that one out!" -Frank Caliendo as George Bush
by broncodude793 on Jul 22, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Bynum for Paul is a no brainer
I love Bynum, but he is a 7-footer who has had 4 knee injuries already (1 in high school) at age 22 and has been hurt for the last 3 straight playoffs. Paul is a 6-footer (barely) who is coming off his first remotely serious injury at age 25. No way do their injury histories project comparably into the future.
All this talk of Okafor is crazy though. Dude is average at best and has an abominable contract of $11,540,375 / $12,541,812 / $13,543,250 / $14,544,687 over the next 4 seasons. Seriously, Buss is looking to keep his payroll under control not blow it up into smithereens. Plus, we already have a far superior option at C to Okafor in Gasol- we would just need to move another superior player to Okafor in LO to the starting lineup.
If we were to add Paul, no way would it make sense to stay in the triangle. Paul is the best ball handler in basketball and an elite floor general to boot (and no, Kobe is not close to him in either respect- see their respective 3.89 to 1.57 career a/to averages)-why would you ask him to play pass-and-move? We could still run ISOs as appropriate for Kobe from the wing and in the post so he could get his fix, but Paul justifiably would be the primary ball handler. Just imagine the possibilities of guard-guard pick and rolls with Paul and Kobe- defenses wouldn’t stand a chance.
The point is
we want to keep Gasol at the 4 where he is the most effective.
Odom/Gasol >>> Gasol/Okafor
and for a lot less money.
And Paul/Odom/Gasol/Okafor >>>>> Fisher/Odom/Gasol/Bynum
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s a Hall of Fame player (every bit of Isiah Thomas if still healthy), people don’t seem to keep that in mind. not sure that Bynum is going to the Hall of Fame.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
From a statistical viewpoint
The only other point guard you can conceivably compare him to is Magic. Isiah is definitely a deft comparison though.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Just thinking of his size and his ability to freaking take over a game with both assists and scoring in a blur.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
The question is about Paul’s injury. About 2 weeks ago I searched very hard through all the papers to get the exact nature of it, and it is impossible to find. He had parts of his meniscus taken out because it was torn. It entirely matters HOW MUCH of it was removed. If it was a substantial amount then this could lead to the dread microfracture surgery further down the road because the meniscus is the “padding” between bone in the knee. If it was only a shaving of the torn part, then it is likely not a chronic problem. But, at least as far as anything I have read, we don’t know the long term effects. He does seem to have take a while recovering.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
“had part of his meniscus”
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Not a fan of this idea
We just signed Blake.
I dont want to trade Bynum.
Point guards are easier to find than a solid Big man
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Chris Paul and Granger are going to the Rockets.
Paul/Lowry
Martin/Budinger
Granger/Battier
Scola/Patterson
Yao/Miller
Best team ever.
Forgive my skepticism that you have the pieces to pull that off
Especially when you really have nothing that compares to Bynum’s trade value.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
lol, I almost did the same thing Michael S. did here but on the Cetics blog as they had a Chris Paul story.
Almost all of them said: “He better not go to the Lakers”. I was about to post: Chris Paul is going to the Lakers… etc. But didn’t want to troll like that. lol
;)
We have the deepest bench in the league, the rights to trade for the Knicks picks.
And the Knicks suck….
I think that would be a sufficient amount of trading pieces to “pull it off”
Err, the Knicks aren't going to suck
If anything, they’re making the playoffs next season. And I doubt that Brooks/Hill/picks is a more compelling package than Bynum.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
The Knicks' success all depends on how they jell with Amar'e.
And we COULD put together a more compelling package than Bynum.
If you could, can you post the Bynum trade you were talking about?
"Best team ever"?
I mean… really?
Enjoy the under-60-games that Yao gives you…
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
by With Malice on Jul 26, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I wonder why the Lakers have fallen completely out of the storyline?
And the Mavs and Portland have been inserted.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
I thnink people are a bit confused
I will put money that it is NO which wants to trade paul, with his blessing. Why? Because Collison was a better player than Chris Paul last year, lol. After he came back from his injury, CP3 was an average player at best. You guys must be thinking of the 2 years ago CP3. Sorry, he is no longer that player.
NO is attempting to cash in on CP3’s big name and get some quality back. They would take Bynum in a heart beat, no doubt. Can you imagine a dirt cheap contract for Collison, getting rid of CP3 which is basically a wash with Collison, and coming back with huge talent like Bynum, all the while shedding salary?
Again, a CP3 who most likely is no longer himself after the horrible injury.
You do realize the stats that Ben put up
are the ones from last year. Even coming off of injury and adjusting to a new system, CP3 per 36 minutes scored more efficiently, had more steals, had less tos with more minutes, more asts, and rebounded better. All in half a season. He also had a significantly higher Ortg and Drtg with a lower usage rate. I mean just look it up an you’ll see that Chris Paul with more minutes is still more effective as a PG than Darren Collison and its not a wash, its a big difference.
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.
But big question is Fish and Farmar I think both averaged 3 assists per 36 minutes in the Laker offense last year (by my memory which could be wrong). What would Paul pump that up to? 5 assists?
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
thats what Kobe and Odom float around each year as the main contributors. Him playing majority minutes and handling more of the ball control than FishMar would have him at about that mark.
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.
Yeah, but Paul is by far, a superior passer to anyone on this team
It’s not close. Even in the triangle, he’d average at least eight assists a games.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
CP3 can sign with LA in 2 years.
and we can start the transition from the Kobe era to CP3 + Bynum era
Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...
Sign with what?
The cap space we’ll clear in the meantime? Or the likely-to-be-abolished MLE?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
He's not signing with the Lakers later. The original plan is for a "the decision" team in NY
The old story. Amare, Mellow and Cp3 conspiring.
Alex Kennedy twitter: Source confirms that New York is Chris Paul’s first option. Paul spoke with Amare Stoudemire two weeks ago about forcing a trade to Knicks. Over 1 hour ago.
The other plans must be backup plans.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
soon there will be 4 teams in the nba
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.
Why the Knicks?
If this happened, Stoudemire would shit his pants at the thought that he doesn’t have to play basketball without a highly talented point guard feeding him the ball every time. He’d say “OH FUCK YES! Now I don’t have to show the world how talented I REALLY am.”
This is something Amare talked talking about as soon as he was signed in NY. And there was a rumored toast at Carmelo’s wedding made by Paul, with Amare in attendance:
According to a person who spoke with wedding attendee Amar’e Stoudemire, Paul made the reference during a speech of a potential union of himself, Stoudemire and Anthony, saying, “We’ll form our own Big 3,” Paul allegedly said.
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
by kv on Jul 22, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Frankly I don't see the hesitation anymore
with better guard defense on the wings from Paul, we don’t need to worry about having a huge body down low to deter people from driving as much because we’ll actually be defensively capable of stopping most penetration with our backcourt alone and then having a presence down low would be a bonus instead of a necessity and we could still get it with a defensive C.
Then you also have the fact that penetration is something we always searched for and limiting the number of times Fisher and Artest are looked at to penetrate offenses is all good for the Lakers as they are the weakest of ball handlers. Also, we then have two and potentially 3, 35+% 3-pt shooters on the wing at varying times on the court, which we know we definitely need because our 3-pt shooting has been atrocious.
Also, Chris Paul isn’t a dumb player, he knows that his numbers will drop in this system, but he also knows how to play within systems. And the triangle has a pick and roll component that would be just beautiful with him running the point. Fish would still be on the bench to come in, as he’s shown he’s willing to do in Utah when Deron Williams was the starter. Blake can be a backup guard for Kobe as well. I mean the guards in the triangle are still interchangeable and its part of the problem that Kobe has to continually play more minutes when no one else can shoot well from the backcourt. Our depth at backcourt looks stacked, but in reality last year part of the reason Kobe played so much was because of a lack of wing depth with competent players. This continues to add wing depth so Kobe does not have to keep piling on minutes. I don’t think we’d have to give up Caracter or Ebanks either just because they’re not exactly getting paid a lot and giving up the first rounders already makes things great for their future. NO gets a nice young core with Collison and Bynum as well. I see a win-win situation for both teams without another team getting screwed, or at least perceptively so.
Also, I don’t see why we have to give up Blake or Fisher in this deal even if we sign Paul because that is still only 4 guards on the roster and with the point of reducing Kobe’s minutes the only person who’d be getting less run would be Fisher and even then Kobe would have to go to SF occasionally because we would have traded our depth at that position. We’re not that deep on the wings if we do this trade and getting Shannon would just be a nice explosive offensive combo of small ball with him and Paul giving and going. lol. I see no problems with this, except loyalty to Bynum. Quite frankly he knows the business, and Paul is a great option if we can get him. To me, the team would be just as good if we got Paul and just had another defensive player down low. Not to mention, that Pau would benefit even more from being even less doubled with multiple threats on the wings from 3-pt range. I think it would be great and Pau is great for the future as well, especially if he resigns after Kobe, Pau, and Artest’s contracts are up. I mean I’m talking some Ridiculous Upside people. lol.
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.
TLDR
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."--Cormican on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM PDT
I believe the correct expression is
tl;dr
or
Cool story bro
P.S. I read it Marty =]
Sweet 16
by bluexfalcon on Jul 22, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Come on people
Like everyone else said, 2 championships basicly without bynum. Imagine kobe not being double teamed like boston did to him. Marty is right. that was a long read but well worth it. He’s jerry maguire and i’m going with him. Hey and we can sign shaq and people will be like bynum who. I’m just kidding about shaq. But seriously we could sign him.
I would love Chris Paul for the future.
But I wouldn’t do this trade in the middle of a three-peat attempt, too many adjustments would need to be made through the course of one season. It’s not an easy task, just watch Miami this year to see how epically it can fail.
And it’s already been stated that as long as the Lakers are winning Championships, the core is untouchable.
Not to mention, no way of knowing if CP3 will ever be 100% again. For a player whose primary physical advantage is his quickness, having his meniscus shaved off is always a worry.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 23, 2010 1:57 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Looks like NO
isn’t going to trade Paul this year…
We can still offer them the best package later on after checking up on how Paul plays during this season
I would love Paul for the future too
The two people that pop into my mind that I would like LA to rebuild with most after Kobe’s time is Paul or Durant but we know how likely that is to happen in the future after this one chance.
With the Barnes signing though , the Paul issue is likely dead, but I think the Knicks’ system plays best to Paul’s strengths and I think he would enjoy playing there the most. No doubt that Paul could adapt to the triangle, but for some reason I just feel he will just be happiest where he can play PG like he’s used to (even Farmar left a 2 time champion to play second fiddle to Harris on the Nets).
With that said, I have the feeling that Paul might be pushing NO management for a trade with the Knicks. But what I don’t understand is why the NO management would care where Paul would want to go. I understand the overall need to keep your superstars happy, but why the extreme need to keep your superstar happy at the expense of the team (and the subsequent trade pick-ups) when that superstar is not even going to be on your team for another game.
I know management doesn’t want players to leave on a sour note or to do anything that would make them feel betrayed or screwed over, but if its true Paul is the one demanding a trade, then it wouldn’t be the player getting the short end of the stick, but the team who has him signed for another 2 years.
I think NO management should be strong and take leadership and if they really do need to trade Paul, they should take the best offer overall and not limit to the “three teams that Paul has chosen,” cause really , none of the three teams has anything worthy of trading for Paul that they are willing to give up (assuming Bynum is not being considered to be traded by Mitch). With 2 years on the contract, NO could even wait a half or full year longer before the trade and still get pretty decent pieces for Paul (better than what NY can offer now), its not like Paul could refuse to play in the upcoming year or purposely play poorly (which will cement in people’s minds that the knee injury and surgery was indeed very serious).
All this is thrown out the window though if the conspiracy theory is true in that Paul is not his old self and NO is shopping him before people find out the true extent of his injury. But even if true, NO management has a responsibility to do whats best for the team and should send Paul to whatever team has the best package trade offer, bar none.
Sorry for the long post or if I am repeating what others have said.
At The Hive has collected reactions from across the SB nation NBA fanblogs
http://www.atthehive.com/2010/7/23/1584085/potential-chris-paul-destinations
You’ve done us proud Ben
thanks
"Attitude reflect leadership, captain" - Big Jules
Oh, Denver Stiffs
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2010/7/18/1574466/the-implications-of-trading-for
Chris Paul simply is not worth his price tag.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
That was written by some smuck non-regular on our site BTW
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Quitter #96
by The U.N. Fab Five on Jul 27, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
bottom line...
are the lakers serious players for paul?
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
What about the Cavs?
Paul has some serious love for Byron Scott, especially now that Scott wants an up-tempo team. Since NO is in such bad financial trouble the trade exception would be good for them.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
I don't think the Cavs are high on ChrisP's list
Their front office is in shambles. Why would CP3 go from one quagmire to another? I think this was just a wake-up call to the NO front office to get it’ act together.
"Attitude reflect leadership, captain" - Big Jules
I guess I would have to agree.
The only thing we have to attract him is Byron Scott. Had LeBron stayed… maybe.
It seems it’s going one of the 4 teams that have been mentioneed from the beginning; LA, Orlando, New York, or he’ll just stay put in New Orleans.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
Well its not really up to CP3
He doesn’t have any leverage over NO since he is signed until 2012.
So it will be NO who decides if they are trading him or not.
But if NO is interested in trading him, I think the Lakers have the most attractive pieces.
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
What exactly can the Knicks offer that's attractive?
They’re reportedly willing to give up anyone but Amar’e.
"Before I write I let my mind go blind and let the Lord do His thing. " -Tupac Shakur
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it looks like work." -Thomas Edison
I think the guys that they got from the Warriors
Though I am not so sure if they can trade them immediately.
Will it b like Blake where they can only trade them in December?
"Literally every single team that's ever won a Championship has done it without LeBron James." -Seth Meyers
You are correct
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Err, technically correct
They can still trade them, but they can only package them individually. So for instance, they couldn’t send Curry and Randolph for Paul.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Eddy Curry EC
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 24, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
And a whole bunch of draft picks
that’ll keep em relying on FA till like 2020
My thoughts are you need Chris Paul to stay relevant.
The Big Three in LA, is pretty old and overrated as it is.
The Big Three in LA just won back-to-back championships.
I’ll take that over your opinion, thanks.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 25, 2010 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
On top of appearing in 3 consecutive Finals...
And are heavily priced to go back again.
But thanks for your concern, agradecimiento a dios…
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
by With Malice on Jul 26, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Chris Paul not going anywhere
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=AjzZuZGx8XfSrIVozkyla.8vLYF?slug=ap-hornets-paul
all this talk was very fun (not)
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
Woj is conducting a massive LeBook burning.
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