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We Can't All Be CEOs: How LeBron's Decision Reflects His Values

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[Note: Apologies to those who don't want to read another word about LeBron; I know the topic is about as tired as it can be. However, what I'm trying to provide here is a different perspective from everything that has been written so far – but if you're tired of the topic in general, feel free to not read.]


What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

There are three distinct aspects of LeBron's "Decision" that people are reacting to. The problem is that while we're all reacting to different aspects of this issue, we're arguing with each other without recognizing that we're coming at it from different angles. So to clarify, I'm going to outline the three distinctly different aspects of the decision, each of which prompts a reaction from us.

Star-divide

The Means
This is a simple one, since, as far as I can tell, literally everyone but Henry Abbott agrees. Here, we're talking about the process, the way LeBron James handled the entire free agency process, for the last two or three years, and specifically the week leading up to and including the announcement itself. It doesn't get any worse than this. From this perspective, we all agree that this is probably the most egomaniacal, self-aggrandizing, despicable displays we have ever seen. It was not just tasteless and classless, nor simply imprudent; it was wrong.

The entire population of America that does not write for ESPN agrees on this, so let's move on.

The End: Its Meaning
This is where we start talking about basketball; LeBron's decision to join Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami and form a SuperTeam has changed the way we evaluate him as a player, as well as the way we perceive his still evolving legacy. From this perspective, there are several ideas that dovetail together in a common theme, and by now, you're well aware of them.

They say that LeBron took the easy way out, and that the greatest players in the history of the game would never have done this. His decision is anti-competitive; like playing video games with cheats turned on, it indicates a person more interested in standing at the top than in beating the best. You get the sense that Kobe would have a hard time celebrating victory over 29 exhibition teams, but LeBron's okay with it.

They say he doesn't have what it takes to lead his own team to victory, as The Man. Henry Abbott would have you believe that this is about our irrational over-emphasis on taking the last shot, borne out of some antiquated sense of machismo, but he's wrong. That's not it at all. It's about leadership. It's about that ineffable quality that some players have, that knowledge of how to win at the highest level, of how to lead their teams to victory. We don't even really know what it is – to the best of our ability, we describe it with terms like focus, drive, will to win, desire, intensity. It's the ability to translate immense talent into victory, and whatever it is, LeBron doesn't have it.

They say he gave up on winning a championship in Cleveland, and they're right. He promised it, and he didn't deliver it. As far as the goal of winning one for Cleveland goes, he admitted defeat.

These and similar ideas come together to form a singular idea that, while not unanimous (again, Henry Abbott is the most vocal dissenter), is certainly widely accepted, and by an overwhelming majority: With this move, LeBron can no longer be in the conversation with Jordan, Magic, Larry Legend, and Kobe for the greatest ever. The greatest individual players in the history of the game have met the ultimate challenge head on, willingly, and overcome it. They have relished the competition, rather than seeking to diminish it, or stack the deck against it. They arrived in town, embraced the challenge of delivering victory for that town, and stuck it out until they delivered. The greatest players have been the undisputed leaders and best players of their teams, the unquestionable MVPs of championship squads, and they never considered taking the easy way out.

Simply put, the greatest players in the history of the game were also its greatest competitors, and LeBron clearly does not fit into that category.

The End: Its Value
So far, all of the above should be familiar to you. Okay, okay, more than familiar – it's the dead horse, and I apologize for beating it; it was necessary to outline those ideas in order to differentiate them from what follows. This is different, and there aren't as many people saying it. When they do, they face harsh criticism, because it is interpreted as contradicting all of the above. But it doesn't do that at all; it is an entirely separate perspective.

It goes like this: So LeBron took the easy way out, decided not to be the Jordanesque singular basketball superhero, and chose to play with his friends rather than single-handedly destroy the competition – good for him! Kelly Dwyer best expresses this perspective, and I must say that I agree with him completely.

Here's the thing: None of this denies the truth of the issues outlined in the previous sections, above. Instead, it attempts to recognize that LeBron James may simply have different values and priorities, when it comes to his career, and there really isn't anything wrong with that. I've always tried to keep in mind the reality that for professional athletes, basketball is not just a game, not just some lofty pursuit, but their careers. Just like the rest of us, different basketball players are going to have different priorities and goals in their careers. Perhaps you know someone from your personal or professional life who is an absolute work-a-holic. Their job is their life; they are exceedingly good at what they do, and they put in an unthinkable amount of time and effort (an unhealthy amount, most likely). As a result, they are likely to be very successful in their work.

Now, maybe you know someone else who could be just like that highly talented work-a-holic, but just isn't interested in it. They are, essentially, more balanced. Sure, the work-a-holic can afford a bigger house – but the more balanced person is actually at home more. The balanced person doesn't work as hard, doesn't put in as many hours, doesn't avail himself of as many professional development workshops. He doesn't spend his free time getting extra degrees in his area of professional expertise, and he doesn't bring piles of work home with him. Yeah, there's probably a ceiling on how far he can advance up the professional ladder; the work-a-holic is going to make a 3-year pit stop in middle management on his way up to the top, whereas the more balanced person is going to reach middle management, spend the next couple decades there, and still be there when he retires. But with all that extra time, he reads more, learns to play a couple instruments, takes some cooking classes, spends time with his kids, has more "quality time" with his wife (wink wink), plays basketball in a rec league, and even helps out around the house here and there.

Your two friends simply have different priorities, different values, and neither is wrong. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are basketball's work-a-holics; their focus is on one thing, and one thing only. LeBron James is your more balanced friend; he wants to win championships, play with his friends, be a billionaire, be a global icon, build his brand, and play king to all his minions. What, exactly, is wrong with all of that?

Kelly Dwyer says nothing, and I tend to agree. Why should the desire to play on a basketball team with some of the best players in the world, the most talented teammates a great player could ever have, be anything but admirable? Tell me you don't want to work, at whatever it is you do, with the best in the business. Of course you do! Why shouldn't he? Can you really blame the guy for wanting to play with Wade, Bosh, and a whole slew of solid, veteran role players? Can you blame him for wanting to be a part of something truly special and unique? No, I say you can't.

The problem, here, is that some of us are talking about the meaning of LeBron's decision, while others are talking about the value of that decision, and we're arguing as though the two perspectives contradicted each other. They do not. Instead, those who, like Dwyer, would prefer to celebrate LeBron's decision to be a part of something truly special are simply saying this: Yes, we agree that it means LeBron is no longer in the discussion with MJ, Magic, Larry and Kobe, and we're okay with that – his values and priorities appear to be different, and we can appreciate what he's doing here.

It doesn't change the fact that with this decision, LeBron is unquestionably removed from the discussion of best player in the world, let alone greatest player ever. It simply means that we accept that he is no longer in that conversation, but can't blame him for not choosing that path.

The End Doesn't Justify the Means
There is one caveat to all of this. From a basketball perspective, I have no problem with the fact that LeBron has chosen not to apply his talent to the pursuit of becoming the best in the game and potentially the best ever. However, from a larger perspective, I do have one problem, and it stems from the way that LeBron portrays himself.

He acts like he owns this league. He takes the entire league hostage and builds up a free agency hype that delivers the unmistakable message that he considers his free agency to be far above and beyond any other (and that includes Michael Jordan, who has been a free agent at times, as well). He declares himself the leader of Team USA, even though everyone else on the inside points to Kobe and Jason Kidd as the team's true leaders. His opinion of himself and his importance is so overblown as to think that he deserves something no other player in history has ever had – an hour special in which the nation's attention should be devoted to his decision; for perspective, when MJ came back from playing baseball, he did it with a two-word fax: "I'm back." He wears tattoos and t-shirts which proclaim him the "Chosen 1," the King. My personal favorite, guaranteed to trigger my gag reflex, is his Witness ad campaign. It's not just the campaign; it's that he wears the t-shirts, and even has it tattooed on his leg. When Nike does it, it's advertising; when LeBron does it, he's saying, "Witness me."

Of course, all of this is just scratching the surface. This, along with far too many other examples to list, portray a clear picture of someone who wants us to be in awe of him, to witness him, even to bow down to him. And that's the problem with this new decision, and the different priorities and values it supposedly reveals. I have no problem with LeBron deciding to follow a career path that removes him from the discussion of the best or greatest current player, let alone the greatest ever. But after he's spent the last seven years trying to convince us that he is and will be "the man," with the potential to be the greatest ever? Yeah, that smarts a bit. And continuing to act as though he owns the league, all while making a decision that presumably displays other priorities? Yeah, that pisses me off.

At the end of the day, I have no problem with accepting LeBron's decision, and even celebrating his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something truly special. Those are two very valid and worthwhile goals. But accepting that decision comes with two qualifiers: First, it removes him from the conversation of greatest player, either of the present or of all time; and second, LeBron James needs to adopt an attitude commensurate with his career path.

Remember our earlier analogy? The balanced worker shouldn't be criticized for having different goals and priorities – but he doesn't get to act like the CEO.

So when you're debating this issue, keep in mind that there are several distinctly different aspects of LeBron's decision, each of which much be treated differently. The way he handled it was despicable and disgusting. The decision he made, from a basketball perspective, has forever changed how we evaluate him as a player and how we will view his legacy. That said, there's no reason that his decision to follow a career path that removes him from all of the "Greatest Player" conversations should be seen as wrong or bad, and in fact, his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something special and unique is just as valid and worthwhile as the obsessive, ultra-competitive desire to lead one's own team to victory (and probably more healthy). None of those perspectives stand in conflict with one another. However, he must adjust his attitude to be consistent with the player he has decided to be.

The fact that he has not – that he continues to act as though he is the greatest thing to ever happen to basketball – suggests that those alternate values and priorities that Kelly Dwyer celebrates may not be LeBron's, at all. Maybe that's just us, projecting the positive aspects we see in this situation on a LeBron James who really doesn't reflect those values at all.

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Haha, Josh.

I bet those earlier comments you made inspired you to write this.

Anyways, this is good:

So when you’re debating this issue, keep in mind that there are several distinctly different aspects of LeBron’s decision, each of which much be treated differently. The way he handled it was despicable and disgusting. The decision he made, from a basketball perspective, has forever changed how we evaluate him as a player and how we will view his legacy. That said, there’s no reason that his decision to follow a career path that removes him from all of the “Greatest Player” conversations should be seen as wrong or bad, and in fact, his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something special and unique is just as valid and worthwhile as the obsessive, ultra-competitive desire to lead one’s own team to victory (and probably more healthy). None of those perspectives stand in conflict with one another. However, he must adjust his attitude to be consistent with the player he has decided to be.

Sweet 16

by bluexfalcon on Jul 20, 2010 2:09 PM PDT reply actions  

It did, partially.

There were two points I wanted to make with this post:

  1. In response to those like Kelly Dwyer and Jeff Miller who are writing these pieces, they should recognize that while the points they make are correct, they do not actually negate the points we’ve been making since July 9.
  2. In response to those who, like some of those in the comment threads yesterday, immediately dismiss what guys like KD are saying, they should recognize that this perspective does not contradict theirs, and it is a valid and correct one.

I had already begun thinking of this post the moment I read KD’s piece, for reason #1 above. Then, after participating in the comments yesterday, that gave me additional reason to write this.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well

I don’t think that Dwyer was only saying what you repeated as he brought up examples and compared Jordan wanting to leave the 1980s Bulls just as much as Lebron wanted to leave the ‘09/’10 Cavs. He didn’t point out the separate circumstances, he didn’t point out the fact that the Cavs are two-time league leaders in wins and the Bulls were 8 seeds each year. I thought that was revisionist and I laughed at it honestly because it reeked of covering tracks.
And to be frank, I thought that KD thought that he was negating previous posts because he’s sorry, but he just can’t blast Lebron for going there. HIs smugness in his writing gets to me, especially when he does the whole I can’t do this or I can’t do that. He addresses nothing else but the fact that playing basketball with three other guys that are good is cool and makes it seem as if he knows Jordan would’ve wanted to do this by trying to compare Jordan playing with Scottie and Rodman, talking about Bird not wanting to trade his team for Jordan’s 80s Bulls, and by saying that Magic was the one with the right way of thinking without observing the fact that Magic was drafted to L.A. and actually did take over down the stretch and was the undisputed leader of the team as Kareem declined. Just saying, Dwyer’s premise was correct, but his reasoning could’ve gone without all of the comparisons to justify it. Teams were built around the other guys, whereas Lebron left the team that was built around him even when the success was there. He failed to point it out, but whatever everything else he said was correct. I just laughed at the cover-up of circumstance.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O

by Marty Mart on Jul 20, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I somehow suspected that you would write a post about the Dwyer article

heh.

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 2:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Nice post to sum it all up.

I really liked the comparison of the workaholic to the chill guy who doesn’t work as hard, but gets to spend more quality time with his family. A question: How/when did LeBron declare himself the leader of Team USA? Also, since we are on the topic of GOATs, I have wondered why Tim Duncan doesn’t get much love, and my theory is that its because of his plain facial expressions and non-flashy play. He has all the achievements, 4 time champion, 2 MVPS, 3 finals MVP, 12 time all-star, 13 all-NBA teams, and, importantly, a whole team built around him. Could it be that he’s not a very versatile player, when comparing to the other GOATs?

I'm going to take my talents to... your mom... Literally every single team that's ever won a championship has done it without LeBron James.

by LakerUNLTD on Jul 20, 2010 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

i couldn't agree with u more about Duncan

I guess bigs in general don’t get as much love as the more athletic players. may be their role & style of play isn’t as sexy. yeah maybe because he’s kind of a low profile player, especially for a guy who ,as u said, has done it all. & the small San Antonio market doesn’t help. A half-as-good, but flashy player in LA, NY or any other big city would get much more attention.
i don’t think it’s just him, it’s true for almost all bigs. look at Kareem, he too has done it all & is the greatest scorer of all-time , but barely gets mentioned among all-time greats

by ajfarsi on Jul 20, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its because people live in the moment

and the moment only talks about what jumps out at you. Duncan hasn’t had a game that jumps out at you in a while and thats probably why. We take advantage of these players when they’re around, but I think he and Garnett will get their due in the end as the two best PFs of the last decade.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O

by Marty Mart on Jul 20, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well put. I think we’re all tired of the LeBron stuff, but this was a good writeup of the various aspects of the decision and the reactions to it. And the conclusion is exactly why he pisses me off so much. I don’t care if he doesn’t want to try to be the best. I do care that he parades himself around like he’s the best, and calls himself the best and the king and the chosen one…when his actions in no way suggest he is the best.

I think the media is to blame for all of it, personally. They built him up when he was in high school and showed his games on ESPN. They called him the best ever before he even started in the NBA. Cleveland called him their savior. How the fuck was he supposed to react? I mean, of course he could have been more humble, but when everyone tells you that you are the greatest, why not buy into it? You say, and I agree, that if he’s going to make a move like the one he made to Miami, he should act accordingly. But when you have Nike and ESPN and the NBA telling you that you are the GOAT, it’s hard to not act like it.

I’m going to be really, really upset if LeBron wins a title with D Wade and Bosh, and then the media starts crowning him the best…especially after all the shit Kobe got for not winning one without Shaq for a while.

Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.

by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 20, 2010 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Don't blame the media

As Dwyer said,

Listen, I think I’ve been as vitriolic as I can possibly be regarding James’ jump to Miami. It would be truthful to point out that his handlers made an ass out of LeBron when it came to his disturbingly tactless ESPN special (and all that led up to it), but at some point (and with your 26th birthday just five months away), you have to take the ass-making blame personally.
Sick of your friends making bad decisions that reflect poorly on you? Get new friends. Just because they’re not shooting up nightclubs and setting up dog-fighting rings as opposed to tearing franchises apart and pretending to be big-boy businessmen, it doesn’t mean they’re not sycophants gone wild.

LeBron’s a grown man, he bears responsibility for his actions, his words, his attitude — just like the rest of us. The media has fed the problem, but the problem itself is in LeBron’s head. Period.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

i dont think thats fair

we have no idea what its like to be a kid who from the age of 14 has been told he’s gonna be the greatest ever, have espn show your highschool games and sign a 90 MILLION dollar endorsement deal with nike before you play a single minute of nba ball. he’s a grown ass man physically but obviously not mentally, and money changes people. it changes who you’re around, who you deal with, who influences you. his is a different existence than any of us could understand. i mean we’ve all heard tons of storys about the modern day professional athlete ego, just imagine that times a hundred since you’re a teenager. he’s been spoiled since his teens and the richer you are the more yes men you’ll find yourself around and before you know it your self-awareness and critical thinking skills are severely eroded cause you live a dreamland. kids do stupid shit. and he’s a kid in a mans body. Twenty-five years old. makes me feel old just typing it.

"i always tell the truth..even when i lie."

by j squared on Jul 20, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

So then at what point

would you say he needs to take responsibility for his actions to in fact become a man. I mean isn’t that the life lesson he’s missing in the first place. He needs to learn to take responsibility for his actions? No better time than the present to begin ones quest to manhood.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O

by Marty Mart on Jul 20, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

To a point, I agree with you. Yes, money can change people and bring more problems

that one would want. However, Lebron is hella savvy. I believe he is well aware of his surroundings and those that are close to him. I could understand your argument if he was making it rain in the clubs or 911 was on speed dial whenever he is out at night. That just isn’t case. Lebron said all the right things leading up to free agency to keep everyone guessing. Held a one hour special. Tattooed ‘Choosen 1’ on his back and other relevant tattoos. Wears “Check My Stats” t-shirts. Maybe he is incredibly immature, but Lebron knows exactly what he is doing.

by E-ROC on Jul 20, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I can somewhat get behind this, especially the mental part

I don’t think LeBron can comprehend the reality of what almost everyone is saying. He lives in and was brought up in a different plane of existence, one that is extravagant and indulgent. He’s fawned over, overly praised and lauded, and spoiled at high degree. All this since he was a boy. Now he’s 25 almost 26 and everyone is expecting him to be a man/make responsible decisions/stop being a dumb-ass/stop acting like he’s the greatest? It’s not going to happen, not overnight, not soon. That’s hard to do when you’ve always gotten your way. Or if you’ve never learned or had to exercise your logic and reasoning skills. Or have never surrounded yourself with people who can help you make the right decisions.

To think that LeBron can change his behavior now is to assume he’s listening to or understands reason. To credit him with being a normal person like you and me. Most of us have friends and family who will personally tell us that the way we’re behaving is wrong. All James has are his “sycophants gone wild” and an overinflated ego/sense of self worth. Until they go away or he fully comprehends the reality (which would be more likely if he got rid of his enablers), we’ll continue to see the same antics.

I’m not trying to say that he’s justified in what he’s doing, but I do believe it’s a bit unreasonable of us to expect LeBron James to understand what any “normal” person would.

And yes, there is a bit of irony between my post and my sig. ;-)

I'm not in denial, I'm just selective about the reality I choose to accept.

by lab_mouse on Jul 20, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

The other point is that we are not holding Lebron to OUR standards of winning, necessarily

We are holding him to his OWN standard of winning – what he claimed to be about in 2006:

“I don’t want to go ring-chasing. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion”

(no link, I couldn’t get the orginal ESPN mag article, but you can google it easily and find a ton of pics of the page with the quote)

Can a person change his mind? Absolutely, no doubt, it’s a free free country.

But no one should say that we’re the hypocrites, that we’re the ones imposing this “win as the man” argument, it’s Lebron who said he didn’t want to go “ring-chasing”.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gil Meriken on Jul 20, 2010 2:23 PM PDT reply actions  

To be fair...

No one died when Lebron lied. :P

He also said he wouldn’t leave Cleveland without bringing the franchise a championship.

I would be hesitant to make business deals with the guy based on his public word. Actually, hesitant is the wrong word. The right words are completely unwilling.

by USA!USA!USA! on Jul 20, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here you go =D

I'm going to take my talents to... your mom... Literally every single team that's ever won a championship has done it without LeBron James.

by LakerUNLTD on Jul 20, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well said, Gil.

That’s exactly right, and it complements the point I ended this post with. And it’s not just a 4 years ago thing, either… he’s still acting like the person that said that.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who's Lebron?

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 20, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

aha!!!!

you spelled it wrong!!

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uh, no, Gil did, which is the point of my comment.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 20, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

argh

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Am I supposed to capitalize the B?

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gil Meriken on Jul 20, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeap

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can make it very simple.

Lebron is still an asshole and he’s also full of shit. He can do what he wants in basketball, not without consequences, and it should be fine with us because he’s following his own journey, not our idea of what his journey should be. He’s a hell of a basketball player, but he’s chosen to be more entertainer and scenester than champion/killer.

Those who disagree are apologists, not that we see a whole lot of those left other than Abbott.

by USA!USA!USA! on Jul 20, 2010 2:23 PM PDT reply actions  

When you use term "apologists"

does it bear a positive connotation, or a negative one?

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's sort of up to you

I tend to feel that apologists over defend indefensible positions. It seems to generally be what people mean by the term. However, I have some causes/memes that I defend, could certainly be described as an apologist for them (accurately so) and see it more as something about which I’m passionate and about which I believe.

I could definitely have been described as a Kobe apologist the last few years.

I have NO idea if that helps. But, really I’m not sure I can answer the question better than that.

by USA!USA!USA! on Jul 20, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, what I meant was how were YOU using it, in that specific comment?

I know what the word means, and its actual connotation should be neither positive nor negative. But it seemed to me you were using it to indicate something clearly positive, or clearly negative… and without knowing which, I was confused as to exactly what you meant by your comment.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

And hopefully with that, we can end the woeful tale of LeBron Ramone James

A false Heir to the Throne
A false savior of Cleveland
And a real Asshole

Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...

by Mike1204 on Jul 20, 2010 2:32 PM PDT reply actions  

And, now, Black Jesus has said you're not the competitor you think you are.

“Man, meeting Michael Jordan for me was like.. black Jesus walking towards me. It was overwhelming to me to finally meet the guy I’ve looked up to my whole life.”

by rickfox on Jul 20, 2010 3:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Lolz

I'm going to take my talents to... your mom... Literally every single team that's ever won a championship has done it without LeBron James.

by LakerUNLTD on Jul 20, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

HA

"Attitude reflect leadership, captain" - Big Jules

by KBZ on Jul 20, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jesus Christ was dark skinned

Who is this imposter black Jesus?

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Jul 20, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bahahahah, this.

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 21, 2010 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

THIS

I was thinking the same. Jesus wasn’t white.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

this is the bone I have to pick with Dwyer
But to rip on the guy for wanting a chance at, I’m sorry, being part of the greatest basketball team ever put together? For wanting to play basketball at a level that few players, of any caliber, have ever experienced? I’m sorry, but this is a basketball high nonpareil, and I see nothing wrong with LeBron — or Dwyane or Chris — chasing this dragon. The point, in this league, is to work and move and dominate in a setting with four other men. Not to be a man amongst boys.

under normal circumstances there would be nothing wrong with it, but when you mislead people into thinking your are “the chosen one” who would lead Cleveland to a championship, then give up on them to join Wade/ Bosh in Miami is what I have an issue with. If he was consistent with his original values and ideas, I wouldnt have as much of a grip here.

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Yep

And not just his original values and ideals. His actions through this whole process still reflect the same thing.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

The whole The King business is nauseating… He had everything he needed to win this past year in Cleveland. HE is the reason they lost. He gave up… quit… the whole team was mystified, walking around confused. That was the most pathetic display I have ever seen. He wants to convince people that the team was at fault, but it was LeBron. His weakness and cowardice to take the challenge is why he lost. He is a loser.

Greatest of all time? What a joke! LeBron is not even close to being in the conversation. He does not even deserve mention.

by jidooo on Jul 20, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well shit, at least you spelled his name right.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 20, 2010 3:28 PM PDT reply actions  

lol

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

dang girl, so feisty! ;-)

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't get it

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lebron declaring

he declares himself as the kkkking, the choooooosen 1, and he declares himself the leader of team USA?
he does not have a ring yet and already declare this that… what next? after win a ring with D Wade probably declare as the best player in the world…

such a lame ass.!! (just my opinion)

by Vui on Jul 20, 2010 3:45 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm going to go back and read but I just wanted to say

I really don’t mind the multitude of LeBron posts mostly because, what’s the alternative? Like what else are we supposed to talk about as we enter the dog days of summer? I personally find the entire LeBron James fascinating although obviously repeating the same points gets tired. Time to read!

"I wanted to do what was best for LeBron James, and what LeBron James is going to do to make him happy."- Lebron James

by c.lobster on Jul 20, 2010 3:49 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trey and Kelly are both tools

Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.

by RA37thriller on Jul 20, 2010 3:55 PM PDT reply actions  

lol plus one

Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.

by Czheck on Jul 20, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whatever, he wants to play with some stars? That is his choice… but for such a whiny loser to get so much attention is gross. He spat in the face of his team, lied to cover his own shame, and ran away from the challenges he said he would take. He is a quiter and a liar.

I have never had so little respect for a player as I have for him… There have been plenty of good players on opposing teams who I was happy to hate even though I grudgingly respected them, but Lebron? He is deserving of nothing but contempt and scorn.

by jidooo on Jul 20, 2010 4:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Would your opinion change...

If, in fact, Delonte West had slept with his mom? What if he was the last on his team to find out about it? Does that change the loyalty equation a bit?

I’m sure as hell not defending a guy, but thought might really throw me off for a bit.

by USA!USA!USA! on Jul 20, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

What does Delonte sleeping with his mom have to do with his loyalty?

To the fans? To the city of Cleveland? To the Cavs management?

Nothing at all.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 21, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

The main reason I don't like his decision is for the league

I feel like the stars need to be spread throughout the league and if this trend continues we may end up with 4 or 5 superteams. the CP3-Amare-Melo superteam is already being threatened up in NYC.

In Soviet Russia, LA beats you.

by malmario on Jul 20, 2010 4:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't see Melo in NYC, I'd be really surprised if he didn't take the 3 year extension from DEN

CP3 could be in play, however, I don’t see him liking the idea of playing with Amar’e, I think if there is one PG available that would absolutely love NYC is Tony Parker. That’s a better fit for D’antoni’s system than CP3.

Other than that, there really is nobody significant that the Knicks would be interested in besides a trade, NYC needs to pull off a major trade for another big three to happen first.

by rickfox on Jul 20, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

do you guys think

that we started the trend with the Pao trade? I think that may have triggered the whole NBA Super team thing

by wickedskillz on Jul 22, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually wait

The celts already had the hombres in place

by wickedskillz on Jul 22, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nah

What we had was fairly standard. One superstar, one very good second tier player, and a good supporting cast.

What the Celtics had wasn’t that revolutionary, either. If they got those three guys in their primes, then yeah, it would be comparable to Miami. But at their ages, it was more comparable to the 2004 Lakers.

No, I’d say the Miami thing — superstars playing together in their primes — is fairly unprecedented. We prompted it with our dominance, but we didn’t start or model it.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 22, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

The GLOAT jumps on the bandwagon
“We didn’t think about it ‘cause that’s not what we were about,” Johnson said at Baruch College in New York, according to Bloomberg News. “From college, I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5395989

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 20, 2010 4:26 PM PDT reply actions  

yeah I heard on the radio what he said

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

And the hits just keep on comin'

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gil Meriken on Jul 20, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

America's Top 40.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 20, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's getting hammered from every direction

I would feel kind of sorry for him if he wasn’t such a douche

by ajfarsi on Jul 20, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

amen

on your second statement

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

lebron is still a f'n bad guy

bottom line

Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
This shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.

by Czheck on Jul 20, 2010 4:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Can't be the GOAT

Wade will always have one more ring than lebron…

by grm on Jul 20, 2010 5:04 PM PDT reply actions  

It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck

by smart_guy on Jul 20, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

wrong head

That’s just a goat, not a G.O.A.T.

"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23

by deadmuse on Jul 20, 2010 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am on it!

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

race you to it

It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck

by smart_guy on Jul 20, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol you two

kids…

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

lolz

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

lmao!

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Personally I don't think Lebron is really happy with his decision

he kinda knows he f’d up.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 20, 2010 7:13 PM PDT reply actions  

he looked uncomfortable out there at that time

and that’s someone who’s been in front of, and followed by the media since high school

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

also he didn't even seem that stoked during the Heat presentation

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 20, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anyone with half a conscience would be squirming after going from "The Decision" to that Miami circus event.

All he’d need to go into full on Howard Hughes seclusion mode would be for a sex tape of Delonte and his mother to surface.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I got the same feeling

He must be embarrassed to a point.

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Jul 20, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Another well done post, Josh.

svspider was on tangent. You should, at the very least, consider going to law school. NOt to pander, but you may very well waste this talent (ability?)of yours to sift through things and lay them out in an organized, convincing manner in your current state (though I can appreciate the fact that it is also what a teacher does, and in math, no less). Can’t help but smile at the thought that your own post may very well apply to you. Do make like the workaholic, or the talented but well balanced guy?

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 7:35 PM PDT reply actions  

DAMN YOU!!!

It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck

by smart_guy on Jul 20, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

How did you finish so fast ?

It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck

by smart_guy on Jul 20, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what she said

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 20, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

LOL

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 21, 2010 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol

"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O

by altree on Jul 20, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

fanshot not fanpost

"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23

by deadmuse on Jul 20, 2010 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

OH. MY. GOD.

This sets a new standard for awesomeness and hilarity.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Full size image

Can see this one better.

"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23

by deadmuse on Jul 20, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Jul 20, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

My dad and I have been laughing uncontrollably over this for the last 10 minutes.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't stop laughing at
I am taking my talents in this direction.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by remingtonmartin on Jul 20, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know!

My favorite line is Bosh’s, but my dad keeps repeating, “I am taking my talents this direction,” to himself.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Reminds me a lot of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKkZ3hkDF4w

Creepy yet hilarious.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about: a Nazgul, a Nazgurl and a Nazgoat?

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

LMAO

this is what’s great about SSR. fucked up day at work and come home, hop on SSR and get a good laugh. always coming through! some epic photoshops here

by lakers are trouble on Jul 21, 2010 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is a good read

All over the internet Lakers fans have been saying that Lebron didn’t have what it takes to lead a team. I am new here and I bet this has been said before on this site as well. Hell even Celtics fans have said it. All Lebron did was confirm what every Lakers fan has been saying for years.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 7:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, but...I didn't want to believe it

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol...no one did

but then again you cant blame Cavs fans for standing behind him.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope, you can't.

That’s what you do as a fan, until you can’t anymore.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, not only that

But the image of LeBron as a die-hard Cavalier would have been better for the NBA product overall.

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

So w/ all the hoopla on LeBron...

Just to slightly alter the subject, somebody should start a post about D.Wade and how all this affects HIS Legacy and shot at being G.O.A.T.

LeBron’s a douche, we got that already now let’s talk about Wade and Bosh.

by Danish78 on Jul 20, 2010 9:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Let’s talk about the Cavs.

Everyone loves the Cavs, right? I know I do! (croaks)

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's up, Wave.

We do now.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 20, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've made the transition back to Fear The Sword

I’ve been doing what I can to inject more life into it…and some of you guys have been helping…

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sigh...those were the days...

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

a #1 pick

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

DAUGHERTY DAMNIT

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I lived near Cleveland (until I was 12) in the Hot Rod, Daugherty, Ehlo days...

back when Cleveland’s sports hopes rested on Bernie Kosar, Cory Snyder and Kevin Mitchell. Sad to see another chapter added to their sad story.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsz1GOkw4Q

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 20, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I saw a picture somewhere on the internet of Riley and The Godfather

and I thought that it was ridiculous that Riley is getting credit for the signings. He deserves some of it but in this case Wade is mostly responsible.

On the Wade topic, since he has proven he has led a team it shouldnt effect him as much. As far as Bosh I doubt anyone ever saw him as “The Guy:”

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, Josh we're sick of this topic...

,but like Reality TV, we continue to get sucked in when we know darn well we should just change the channel or turn off the TV. Plus you’re too good a writer to pass up.
Deja vu. Just as so many of us took sides, bought into the hype or mocked the hype before James even stepped onto the NBA court, we see the same crap happening again. This new look Heat team hasn’t even suited up yet and people have gazed into the crystal ball and think they have them figured out. Heck, the Heat themselves seem to have moments when they think the 98-110 games to a title are just a formality. They may be politically correct in their comments to the press regarding the Lakers, but I really question the sincerity of it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if LeBron adds some more ink to his back tat to have it say “Chosen1s” or “Chosen1z” now that he has company on the hubris wagon in Miami.
Man, this is going to be a long season, but like all of you I’m looking forward to the multi-layered story lines, the second guessing and hopefully, above all else – some great basketball.

P.S.- Is Jeff Miller taking a minimum salary to write in Miami now?
 

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 9:52 PM PDT reply actions  

It seems that on Hoopshype and other sites are saying that the Lakers

are rumored to get various players. But they only seem to be guards. Why no rumors about back up Centers? Has anyone heard anything?

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Trying to think of who is out there besides (GULP)...Shaq.

Ben R, our resident virtual GM probably knows.

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kwame Brown?

Shaq should be called The Big Bridge Burner

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kwame makes sense, Andrew Bynum respects Kwame, he's a likeable guy in the

locker room, then again, this is the NBA, and this is the very same Kwame, not likely, the again, anything be possible.

by rickfox on Jul 20, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

true

Last year the lakers tried to sign him but he picked the pistons. he missed out on one or two titles.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

look for Oberto, Rasho Nesterovic, Patrick O'bryant.

Personally, the Lakers need a young big, like O’bryant, who can press Pau, Drew during practice.

Guys like Oberto, Nesterovic, are good for spot minutes in games, yet in NBA practices, they provide none of the energy and body contact that a young guy can give our starting bigs, the practice that is needed.

by rickfox on Jul 20, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Patrick O'bryant would be perfect.

The only issue I see with young players is that most are looking for a big pay day as opposed to an aging veteran who is looking for a shot at a ring. But you make really good points. I didnt even know O’bryant was available.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

would be strange

if Kwame and Javaris end up being the big and guard that we sign.

"The Lakers are ninja negotiators. Straight. fuckin. ninjas." -rshinsec
"This isn't an apocalypse. It’s a motherf***ing war." -Hdg23

by deadmuse on Jul 20, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now that the revenge tour is done...

why not win another title and be able to say:
1. We can win with Kwame.
2. We can put Miami in their place
3. Three-peat!!!

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would be pretty cool...

not to mention that they will tie the Celtics for championships. I could imagine what it would to Kobe’s legacy if he gets two more titles he will

Makes the Lakers the team with the most titles and pass the Celtics and
Pass Jordan with seven.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even with 7 people will hold the three with Shaq against him

Kobe needs to win a couple more regular season MVPs, a defensive player of the year, and 3+6 +1 = 10 titles for him to silence all critics

And even then, people will point to Jordan’s stats…(conveniently forgetting kobe’s first two years coming off the bench)

by alphax91 on Jul 21, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

that is all true.

10 titles would be awesome though.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 21, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

you guys sound like heat fans

1 or 2 more titles for Kobe will be very difficult, but that’s what he should shoot for. Anything more than that is just ridiculous/

by plyka on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, it's really not true.

Kobe is currently the most popular athlete in America… and he’s still playing. This wasn’t expected to happen — people beginning to view him more favorably, history recognizing his true greatness — until he retired. But it’s happening now.

Already, no one is really talking about Shaq anymore. Already, there is a general movement towards recognizing that Jordan played with a damn, damn good team — and that he never won one without Pippen. Already, Kobe is widely considered to be in the conversation with Jordan. If he wins one more, he will eventually be considered on par with Jordan — if not right away, then eventually, and especially once he retires. If he wins two more, it’s very possible that he could eclipse Jordan, especially once he retires. He would be the first star player (i.e., player around whom a team is built, rather than role player) since the days of Bill Russell (when there were only between 8 and 14 teams in the league) to win more than 6 rings. The details would become less and less important — the accomplishments themselves would become the focus.

10 years after his retirement, there will be about as many Kobe haters as there are Jordan haters today, especially if he wins another ring, let alone two.

Add to all this the fact that if he plays until he’s 38 or 39 (if fat ass, oft-injured, always out of shape Shaq can do it, why can’t Kobe?), there’s a good chance he could break Kareem’s scoring record…

No, he does not need 10 titles. He needs six or seven.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

I still think stat geeks will continue to try to “put him in perspective,” but for the most part what you say is true.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O

by Marty Mart on Jul 21, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, there will always be a handful.

Henry Abbott will be bagging on Kobe and championing LeBron until the day he retires from blogging.

But I think what I described above will apply to the vast majority of sports fans and sports analysts/columnists. Henry Abbott and the guys at 82games.com can have their opinions, but when it all plays out, few people will care about any of that.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

As requested, your list

1) Shaq. We’re not getting him. Moving on. Only team with confirmed interest in him is Atlanta, and he’d have to take a paycut to play there. Interesting career moment for him; he’s dangerously on the verge of becoming Iverson v.2, except he can still play.

2) Kwame Brown. I think we know the story on him at this point. Good post defense and a walking disaster everywhere else. Would rather just resign Mbenga.

3) Josh Boone. He’s honestly, not a bad choice per se. He finishes well off the pick-and-roll and has good defensive instincts. He’s slightly undersized for the five, but that’s not a major deterrent. He’s a worse free throw shooter than Ben Wallace though.

4) Theo Ratliff. He’s ancient but still rather mobile and can block shots quite well. A decent pick-and-roll defender but useless on offense. Think of a smarter Mbenga with less bounce in his step. Not sure anyone but Larry Brown would be willing to give him another year in the league though.

5) Primoz Brezec. A Euro softie who is an inch taller and 20 pounds heavier than Gasol but plays like everyone thinks Gasol plays in the post. Not worth it.

6) Jarron Collins. Yeah, we’re not signing one of the Collins twins, who bizarrely continue to get NBA contracts despite doing positively nothing besides providing a good locker room presence.

7) Etan Thomas. An energy guy who is too old to inject a whole lot of that energy into his play. Very strong though and guards post-ups well despite giving up inches.

8) Rasho Nesterovic. One of my two preferred signings. A big center who shoots nicely from midrange and in the post, and defends post-ups quite well, although his lack of foot speed is a liability against the pick-and-roll.

9) Kurt Thomas. And the signing everyone wants to do. A heady, smart veteran who still plays solid defense in the post and on the pick-and-roll and can sink midrange shots when left open.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 20, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're always on the money, Ben. Thanks!

"Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character." - John Wooden

by Joshua S on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

whoa! what a list...

Kwame I think will get more playing time than Mbenga did in the playoffs.

I like Ratliff. He would be a good back up.

Etan Thomas is also really good. Haven’t seen him play much though.

Kurt Thomas has got to be the number one choice as you pointed out.

But I will still prefer Shaq but like you said, its a long shot.

great break down.

by Jelly Bean on Jul 20, 2010 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lebron James has little to no weaknesses, the best an opposing team can hope/plan for

is at the end of games put the ball in James hands, not Dwayne Wade. While James has a hand in being a closer, it’s not open and shut delivery, he had that incredible shot against Orlando, however, James has only won four series since the ’07 finals.

Let’s examine Chris Bosh, in a word his weakness to expose: Right. Make the bastard go to his right side, Bosh will and always struggles when you make go the right. Baseline drive, front him when he starts left, he’ll go right and that’s when you have him, always works.

Dwayne Wade still has the same problem: He TURNS the Ball Over!!!
I’m sure over his career it’s at least 2.5, more like 3 turnovers again. Four years playing with scrubs, will make you turn the ball over, yet in Wade’s case, the turnovers result from his bad judgment than his teammates. Watch video of Wade driving into the lane with 2, 3 or all defenders and you’ll see, he’s a turnover waiting to happen. He’s sloppy with the ball at times, more so than most SG’s.

The Heat are formidable, they need some work if they want to run with the Lakers.

by rickfox on Jul 20, 2010 10:37 PM PDT reply actions  

LeBron has a weakness

he gives up under pressure…i thought that was crystal clear this last playoff season

by alphax91 on Jul 21, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

That aside...

make LeBron shoot jumpers

and while this team has offensive power, they really have no great defenders. Wade gambles for steals and blocks, Bosh plays some defense against PFs and no defense against Centers but still his defense sucks, LeBron’s defense was always overrated…

by alphax91 on Jul 21, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Little to no weaknesses?

He has no post game, no footwork.

He has no mid-range game.

His jumpshot is still extremely streaky, and when it comes to shooting the three, he still relies essentially on “getting hot” than on having any consistent skill in that department.

He’s also turnover prone, particularly in big games — see Game 6 against Boston this year, or Game 6 against Orlando last year.

Essentially, if he can’t get within 3 to 5 feet of the basket, he struggles considerably, turning into a very low efficiency, high volume scorer.

No weaknesses? Please. In reality, any good defensive team can game plan for him easily enough. Keep him out of the paint. That’s it. Sure, many teams struggle to actually pull that off, but you notice that every time he runs up against a very good defensive team (Spurs, Boston, Magic, the Lakers when they’re dialed in), he struggles. Why? Because it’s a fairly easy defensive concept, and all it requires is a team that is good enough defensively to implement it.

Little to no weaknesses? Hardly.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No Post game, huh, we haven't really seen his post game, to be fair, his midrange game

is average, he has one, he’s an average free throw shooter.

If you read my blog, instead, you would see I basically said he’s not much of a closer, he has only won 4 series since the ’07 finals.

For an amazing player, to be dissed like this, there’s a lot of schadenfreude, a lot of enmity, for a guy who’s about to average a triple-double since Oscar Robertson through a whole season.

I said little to no weaknesses, and it’s true, Lebron James is one of the most complete Basketball players in NBA History.

Look, I’m not going to be here if this is the kind of attitude, snarky and pretentious. We all didn’t grow up like you Josh, white picket fence, lemonade, picnics.

I spent a lot of my youth in Argentina, you had to be tough to make it out, nothing was given to me, Lebron James while growing up poor in Akron can acclimate to my surroundings as I can to his. The point is, going to Miami was his choice and after all he’s been through, who cares what anybody really thinks.

Don’t nitpick his game cuz it serves a purpose to oversimplify the facts, that he really has little to no weaknesses.

Good-bye.

by rickfox on Jul 21, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I respect your opinion, growing up in Argentina is not a 'red herring' if you don't

believe me I’ll show you around. I’m merely trying to explain the juxtaposition of growing up in the gutter and how that mindset never leaves you, no matter how far you move away.

by rickfox on Jul 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a red herring because the comparison is grossly inaccurate

He’s a multi-million dollar athlete who had synchophants around him at every turn and doted on his every whim, regardless of how “small market” we consider Cleveland. Trying to equate that with a “gutter” can only be described as hyperbole.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Help me make this green?

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

k

stay away from... golden state of mind - CoreyMaggette

by LakerUNLTD on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I said little to no weaknesses, and it’s true, Lebron James is one of the most complete Basketball players in NBA History.

A player with no post game, footwork, consistent free throw shooting, midrange game, three-point shooting, and good on-ball defensive ability is one of the most “complete” players ever. Right.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 21, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

The silver lining: He’s only 25 years old. Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe … all of them peaked as players in their late 20s. Why? Because you need to lose a few times, need to lick your wounds and taste your own blood, need to sit in silence in the locker room of another lost season wondering what went wrong, and then you need to say, “Never again, not ever, I am NOT letting this happen again.” Given how easy basketball comes to him right now, given how many people probably kiss his rear end on a day-to-day basis, given how much he enjoys playing and being part of a team, I just don’t think LeBron James has hit that point yet. If it never happens, too bad. If it happens, look out.

by rickfox on Jul 21, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

...okay

The polemics aside, you’re acknowledging that your statement is simply wrong. End topic.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 21, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kobe...

All of them had proved an ability to win that went beyond their talent, by this point in their careers.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jeez, dude, lighten up.

What about my response, exactly, did you have a problem with? It’s not like I called you names, or questioned your ability to see straight, or said anything remotely insulting to you. You offered an opinion, a position; I responded with an opposing position, and supported it with specific examples. How exactly is that remotely snarky or pretentious?

If you can’t handle the process of going back and forth in a well-reasoned, civil discussion based on concrete, well-articulated arguments, then you’re in the wrong place.

As to your claim, he’s not even close to the most complete player. He’s the most statistically dominant right now. His skill set is based almost entirely on raw athleticism, and at this point in his career, his athleticism is so great that your average team has a hard time stopping him. But that’s your average team — teams generally have a hard time stopping anyone, and the sheer power of LeBron’s athleticism really stands out against such teams. But against teams capable of playing strong defense, LeBron’s very incomplete skill set stands out. Keep him away from the basket, which a good defensive team can do, and it all falls apart.

And yes, your point that he is not much of a closer is also true. Broadening the scope of that just a little, he doesn’t have the ability to perform under pressure. He doesn’t have the ability to translate immense natural, raw talent into winning.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Josh, point taken, however, just listen to this, I come from a place that was a lot

more violent, a lot more poverty stricken, than Akron. I can speak for the mindset of someone in Lebron’s shoes, he grew up with nothing, had no father in his life and his mother was a drug addict, sounds like a cliche right, well, I can take you to Buenos Aires, and there are no cliches, just dropouts, druggies, murder, you name we had it. I don’t live there anymore. I’m just trying to put you in a frame of mind of a poor, desperate person. Lebron’s dream is obviously to be a billionaire and champion, maybe he did circumvent morality, common sense, etc.

Just remember this: People with far more money and far more influence, who come from privilege and weatlh, have done a lot less in their life than Lebron.

Please keep it perspective as I will, I never said he was ‘one of the most complete players in NBA history’ I’m quoting sources, if i have bad sources please, direct me to better one’s, I’m trying to defend him only on the basis, that I came from a similar background.

I don’t want to ruffle feathers, If I do, I apologize.

by rickfox on Jul 21, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for reminding me that I was going to respond to that point.

You grew up in Argentina. I grew up in Africa. I don’t need you to take me to Buenos Aires, and I don’t need you to put me in the frame of mind of a poor, desperate person.

Beyond that, however, I just don’t see how that applies in the least bit to the topic at hand. You initiated a conversation about LeBron’s skill set, and you called him a player with little to no weaknesses. This is, unless my reading comprehension has gone down the drain, a commentary on his basketball skill set — not his attitude, mentality, or background. It’s about what he can do, not about where he came from. And what he can do is a cut and dried thing; regardless of where you came from, you either can do something, or you cannot.

I responded with points about his skill set, and then you replied back with the claim that “Lebron James is one of the most complete Basketball players in NBA History.” First, if that’s a reference to a claim someone else made, then you should reference your source. Otherwise, the rightful assumption is that it is your own claim, your own statement, your own opinion. Second, again, it’s a statement as to his basketball ability.

So I don’t see how his background has anything to do with it. In a discussion about what LeBron James is capable of on the basketball court, his background has no bearing. Oh, it may have affected how hard he worked and the way in which he developed his abilities, but it does not affect the fact that at this moment, he either can do something, or he cannot. He either has good footwork, or he does not. He either has a good post game, or he does not. You get the point. And the reality is that he has an amazing ability to get to the hole and finish at the rim, but he does not have much in the way of mid- and long-range games, footwork, post game, on-ball defense, free throw shooting, playing off the ball, shooting when coming off of screens, and by all appearances, leadership.

So, in a discussion pertaining strictly to his skill set, meaning what he is or is not capable of doing on a basketball court, the idea that he is even the most complete player of the present, let alone history, is far, far, far from the truth.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are lots of nice places in Africa, not sure if that's your picture, but

you’re white, What part of Africa?

There’s nothing nice about Argentina circa 1990. The point is that his whole mindset of growing up poor juxtaposes his decision to do what was best for himself and his family.

You grew up in Africa, but reading what you write, you were never poor Josh, I can tell.

by rickfox on Jul 21, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude

no matter what part of Africa you go to, you see the plight of the less than fortunate. Nice places are few and far in between in Africa, and by nice I mean affluent because there are plenty of nice places if you choose to see them a certain way, when comparing them to the less than fortunate areas. I’m sure the bust of the Argentinean economy early last decade didn’t help anyone out, but to say that Africa is anywhere near better than that situation is just false.
Anyway, wealth and affluence has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about a basketball player’s skillset and how much work he must do to be a complete ballplayer. Unless you are insinuating that his frame of mind is to run with this current basketball skillset until he no longer can, then you’re making a point but up until now you have said nothing relevant to the beginning of this discussion.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O

by Marty Mart on Jul 21, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're not from the gutter, you haven't seen your neighbours hanged

I never said, at any point, that Africa is a better situation, Argentina is a prosperous country in the making, because all the old guards died and the people were able to bounce back, their are plenty of rich people in Africa, poverty is not at 100% in Africa, if you read any pulications from the WHO or United Nations.
majority white, while 90% of the blacks and indigenous people are suffering.

Of course, you and Josh, don’t understand the fact that when you grow up in the gutter it’s all you know. He went to Miami, as a form of Catharsis from his own upbringing, South Beach is as far away from poverty as you can get.

You have no respect for me, so the hell with you and this site.

See ya around, yeah right.

by rickfox on Jul 21, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I was going to own him

but since you’ve already handled it. I’ll just excuse myself now. lol.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Joshua S.

by Marty Mart on Jul 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

His mistake was telling me where I came from.

Picnics, lemonade stands and white picket fences… bad idea.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Come on now.....

You should stick to a basketball argument when talking about a player’s skills and don’t go into assuming where people come from.

LBJ is dominant finishing at the rim but by far is not a complete player if you want to look at other NBA greats. I don’t care how much potential he has….it means squat until he realizes it. I could go on for days on players who had a ton of potential but never got there.

by Kobe B on Jul 21, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me help you on your way...
You have no respect for me, so the hell with you and this site.

See ya around, yeah right.

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

THIS
Anyway, wealth and affluence has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about a basketball player’s skillset and how much work he must do to be a complete ballplayer.

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

hey dude..

how do you do the quote box thing?

by lakers are trouble on Jul 22, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Select the text you want to quote

The click the quotation marks icon.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 22, 2010 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

test2
The click the quotation marks icon

by lakers are trouble on Jul 22, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Alright man, whatever.

You can tell I wasn’t poor by how I write? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and an insult to every intelligent person on the face of this earth who just happens to be poor.

There are lots of nice places in Africa, but none in Argentina? What bullshit, man. When I moved to Côte d’Ivoire in 1996, it was considered the economic hub and most stable country in all of West Africa. Within 5 years, it had undergone a coup d’état, racial cleansing, mass graves, and eventually devolved into civil war. Today, the country is in shambles.

I lived in the Central African Republic, a completely landlocked country with NO national economy, swamped in poverty and bitterness and anger the likes of which neither myself nor my parents (who have lived on just about every continent throughout their lives, often very much in poverty) have ever seen anywhere else. What led us to leave that country? Another coup d’état, which devolved into a civil war, and in which my parents, my sister, and myself repeatedly escaped death by machete (or, once, by faulty Russian grenade) by an extremely narrow margin.

I have lived in villages with no running water, no electricity, where the floor and walls were dirt and mud, you shat in a giant whole full of other people’s shit that reeked to high heaven (and without the luxury of a makeshift toilet seat to put over the hole, and walls to put around it, as you will often see in Mexico), and you had to walk a couple miles to the well to get water, and then carry it back to your house in very heavy buckets.

Don’t tell me I don’t know about poverty. The only place I’m aware of in Africa that’s “nice,” by even the most forgiving of American standards, is South Africa — and I couldn’t tell you if that’s actually true, because I never lived in South Africa. I lived in West and Central Africa. Not that I don’t love the continent. As Marty Mart says below, “nice” is a subjective term — and if you really know the place, you learn to see beyond just the poverty, and appreciate much of what Africa has to offer. But don’t tell me I don’t know about poverty. These nice places you visited in Africa, where were they?

And none of this changes the fact that it has NOTHING to do with the conversation we were having about LeBron James’ skill set, and whether or not he is anything remotely resembling a complete basketball player, let alone the most complete one, of any era!

The point is that his whole mindset of growing up poor juxtaposes his decision to do what was best for himself and his family.

Who cares! It was a conversation about basketball ability! Your point was irrelevant to the conversation. And that is my point.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Correction:

As Marty Mart says above

It was “below” when I was typing it.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll give you

average mid-range game, but only on long twos. His post game and mid-range game around the post area is terrible. His 3-pt range is great, his 3-pt accuracy is not. He goes on a hot streak every year from December-All-Star Break that he shoots like 40+% and then it plummets from then on. He’s an average ft shooter, which for someone who gets to the line as much as he does is a weakness because he’s wasting scoring opportunities with every 3-4 fts he misses a game. Sure it doesn’t seem like much until it happens with .1 seconds left on the clock. Whats Lebron’s most prolific way to score, a drive. Whats his second most prolific way to score, 3-pointers. I’ve broken this down before. Once you factor in fts and baskets at the rim. less than 1/3 of Lebron’s overall scoring average comes from outside of the painted area. To be specific, at one point last year he was scoring only 2.5 pts/game from mid-range and close to 6 pts/game from 3-pt range. And he was the leading scorer in the league at the time, with Durant coming fast. 11 of his 20 shots per game came on shots outside of the immediate vicinity of the rim and he made at most 4 on average. The fact that over 50% of his shots were taken outside of the painted area and he made only 1/3 of those shots is ridiculous and points to a huge area of weakness that has to be fixed up in the future. It also points to incredibly efficiency when in the paint.
A player with his body should be unstoppable, and for the most part he is, but these are still major areas of weakness for a player who wants to remain that way. Dominance /= complete and vice versa.

Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O

by Marty Mart on Jul 21, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jesus Christ, first me, now Josh?

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 22, 2010 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did rickfox have it out with you, too?

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 22, 2010 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep, a while back.

He made a sweeping statement, I responded with a debate based on the basketball side of it, and he responded with attacks on my age, before insinuating I was ‘abusing my mod powers’ in telling him to stop using ad hominems.

Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.

by Saurav A. Das on Jul 22, 2010 6:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah. Yep, seems to fit.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 22, 2010 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Tee hee, that's funny.
Lebron James has little to no weaknesses

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 21, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

does anyone think that lebron has already regret his decision to join the heat? if he truly meant what he said, that he made up his mind that morning of the interview, it isn’t far fetched to think he could have thought “damn what am i doing? i should have stayed in cleveland” after the fact.

i really wonder how much influence his inner circle had on his choosing miami.

the other thing i wanna point out. i just can’t compare professional athletes to regular people. it’s hard for me to compare their basketball career to different kinds of careers. i understand, that essentially, that’s what it is. but i see them as sport figures that are revered by millions of fans, and they represent more than their personal interest and have more at stake than personal gain. they have a responsibility to the people of the city for which they play. the people who basically pay their salary. i can’t compare this move to a lawyer moving to an elite firm. it’s just not the same. lebron had a responsibility to the people not by virtue of his “promise” to them, but by the love and support cleveland has given him. that franchise bent itself backwards for him, and the community made a fool of themselves. perhaps the organization is partly to blame, but not the fans, not the community. i can’t agree with dwyer or that argument. i think the last part of your article is right, josh. maybe you’re identifying the positive aspects of this signing. i think lebron is a punk. i respected the guy’s game a lot. and i mean it. i went as far as nearly calling him the game’s best player. he proved me wrong. me and millions of others.

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Jul 20, 2010 11:47 PM PDT reply actions  

btw, great article!

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Jul 20, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

His inner circle probably wanted him to stay in Cleveland

Most of LeBron’s inner circle are his high school buddies who have royal status in Cleveland. No way they would have wanted to leave that behind. LeBron made his own choice to go to Miami.

by alphax91 on Jul 21, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're confusing two separate issues.

When you talk of the responsibility he had to the fans, I think that applies more to how he treated them — not so much to the basketball decision to go to Miami. If you’re suggesting his responsibility to the fans was so strong that he shouldn’t have left, that’s ludicrous. It’s his life, his career; the fans love him, and he should respect them, but he doesn’t owe them his career. The bond is not strong enough that he’s not allowed to ultimately make the choice that is best for him.

Again, it’s not much different than an employee. The employee has a responsibility to his employer — act responsibly while you’re employed by me, be a good employee, do your job well, and when you do leave, do so with appropriate maturity, respect, and due process. Same for a superstar athlete. He has the responsibility to treat the organization, the city, and the fans well, and with respect, and if he leaves, to do so in a respectful and mature manner — to thank them for their support through the years, rather than talking about how much he’s done for them over the years; to give them ample notice and leave in a respectful way, rather than taking them on national television and blind-siding them in front of the entire nation.

But he does not owe them the decision to stay. The decision as to where he will play, and what kind of player he will be on the court, is still entirely his. And if he wants to go somewhere else and be a different kind of player than others want him to be, because his values are different than those of certain others, then that is entirely his prerogative.

But still — that middle manager doesn’t get to act like the CEO.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

i agree with the first perspective in your article. the one that says lebron chose the easy way out.

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Jul 21, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lebron has a respnosibility to Cleveland?

I’m the furthest thing from a Lebron fan, but he has no such responsibility. The only responsibility he has is to himself and what he deems important. If we take what you’re saying to its logical reality, it means that Lebron no longer owns his life. That he is a slave to the city of Cleveland or any other entity that has ownership over him. When you use the word “responsibility” it is a euphamism for what you really mean, ownership. Meaning that he no longer owns his life and his decisions, that they are now the property of someone else.

Lebron is overrated, perhaps a douchebag, etc. But one thing i can’t fault him for is his decision really was his and no one else’s.

by plyka on Jul 21, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

In case you guys are wondering, I think this is a Magic fan

I'm a diehard Cavs fan, proud to say I never owned a LeBron jersey.

by WaveOcean on Jul 21, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know. He probably doesn't have a favorite team.
As a non-magic fan, i have a crazy feeling that this could actually happen
Everyone is extremely high on CP3, and he is a damn good point guard. I don’t think he is the best on the planet though. I would rather have Deron Williams, Nash (for one year), Rondo, etc. CP3 did not look himself after the injury and who knows if he ever will. Remember that CP3 is CP3 in large part due to his physical gifts, mainly speed/quickness/strength. Will he be the same?

But i think the major reason is that i am so freakin high on Collison. I’m still so pissed that i attemped to stream him on my fantasy basketball team last year instead of just keeping the guy. All of a sudden CP3 gets injured and the night i drop Collison, someone else picks the guy up. Horrible luck since i was high on him from the beginning of the year. But i digress. Collison is an excellent player and you wouldn’t lose much IF AT ALL replacing CP3 with him.

It makes very good sense if the Hornets can dramatically cut costs. This means Posey, this means CP3, etc. VC would merely be an expiring contract to them. It is possible. But one thing that may stop this is that the Hornets could really get a lot more for CP3. Better players and more cap reduction.

by plyka on Jun 24, 2010 6:24 PM PDT reply actions

Sweet 16

by bluexfalcon on Jul 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why don't you actually ask me instead

of attempting to tell people on my behalf what sports team i am a fan of? Sometimes people are just crazy…

by plyka on Jul 21, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

So...

why didn’t you clear it up for us?

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really sure how his team loyalties are relevant...

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

no. i think every sports figure, particularly the mega stars have a responsibility to their city. not only lebron or basketball players. all athletes.

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Jul 21, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

To a point

There’s a line that is drawn there, and here’s the line: They have a responsibility to their cities, or more specifically, their fans… for as long as they are playing for that team. Their responsibility to their fans does NOT involve giving up their right to choose their own FUTURE. It DOES involve treating the fans with respect while you’re there, giving them you’re best while you’re there, not holding the organization hostage while you’re there, and treating them with respect when/if you do leave.

But a player’s responsibility to the fans does NOT involve giving up the right to choose, at any point in your career, to leave and go play somewhere else.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

LeBron failed to live up to his responsibility to the organization and the fans with regards to how he acted while he was a Cavalier, and how he went about leaving. But his actual decision to play somewhere else is not a failure to live up to responsibility. It may be stupid (it’s definitely stupid), but it’s not about responsibility.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

We should just get used to hearing the name Lebron mentioned every day of the year

This topic is not going away. Like it or not, Lebron James on SSR is here to stay. I’m now going to accept that fact.

People like to compare ‘bests’ and just plain argue with or belittle opposing fans viewpoints. Not going away.

James is a threat to the Lakers championship hopes. Not going away.

People will scrutinize how he plays in Miami, as an individual and as a team. Whether successful, a complete failure, or just average, his name is not going away.

Like Kobe, he has haters, too. Many who read this blog. Not going away.

Have fun talking.

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Jul 20, 2010 11:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Wrong. LeBron James is no threat to the championship hopes of the Los Angeles Lakers.
James is a threat to the Lakers championship hopes. Not going away.

His team may, repeat MAY, give us fits if we both get through the playoffs and into the Finals. Alone, he can do nothing. He’s already said that himself, which is why he’s now in Miami with Wade and Bosh.

"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken

by SoCalGal on Jul 21, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, not wrong.

That’s what I meant. Don’t be so literal. All players play on a team. He was on a team that seemed like a threat to the take the championship… and that’s one reason people on this blog mentioned his name so much.

Now he’s on a team that seems to be as big as, and in some estimations, even more of a threat… so people on this blog will continue to mention his name (rather than the team’s).

Right?

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Jul 22, 2010 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sounds about right to me.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 22, 2010 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

From Kobe's prespective, its a good thing

Kobe must be happy with Lebron taking his talents to south beach. I think this will add fuel to bryants desire to win a championship. I bet bryant is thinking: “Super team. I am going to beat them no matter what. I am off to practice.” I think he will look at beating Heat as a new challenge and we all know what happens next.

I have to admit I did not read the article because I am bored of reading about lebron. Someone at SSR should write an article about what this means for Lakers and Kobe. I wouldn’t mind reading that.

by Datuca on Jul 21, 2010 2:08 AM PDT reply actions  

I echo those sentiments

and thoughts

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

"His decision is anti-competitive; like playing video games with cheats turned on"

Translation - Lebron + Bosh+Wade on one team = Hax.

"When push comes to shove I can always get a bucket" - Kobe Bryant

by TciBalla on Jul 21, 2010 8:18 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Great Article

Wow this is a great article, I like how you compartmentalized everyone’s arguments. I remember when I was speaking with my friend about how Lebron will now no longer be in the conversation about GOAT, he responded with, “Cleveland sucks, you woulda left too.” And I responded with “the Decision show was a farce, that was the dumbest thing lebron could have done” and then he said “its not a bad thing to want to play with good people.” I thought we were arguing and at the end we realized that we were in agreement, just were approaching from different perspectives.

by RichK223 on Jul 21, 2010 8:56 AM PDT reply actions  

It's something that has been happening a lot.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well put Josh.

http://twitter.com/wondahbap

by wondahbap on Jul 21, 2010 5:45 PM PDT reply actions  

ESPN has been churning out LeBron apologists articles a lot lately

Including the TrueHoop post by Henry Abbott that you mentioned. Josh, what do you think is a logical reason for this, aside from the knee-jerk (and classless) reaction that they’re just riding LeBron’s jock?

Showtime was that beautiful skyhook. It's the most beautiful shot that I've ever seen in basketball. - Magic Johnson

by chelsea173 on Jul 21, 2010 7:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Hard to say

It seems they don’t see the writing on the wall.

One possibility is that they are as clueless as LeBron James himself — thinking everything they do must surely turn to gold, and therefore assuming that they have the capital necessary to single-handedly reverse the popular verdict on LeBron, just because they say so. Maybe they think that if they say it, we’ll all believe it, and repeat it… and therefore, that they can dictate how we view LeBron, and then turn around and profit from it by selling us more LeBron.

Or maybe they really are smarter than all of us? Maybe they figure that once the Heat start playing games and blowing everybody out of the water, a nation full of bandwagoners that love winners of any kind will jump on board and forget all about how they feel about LeBron right now, so they’re sticking with him, knowing it’ll be the right decision in the long run? And who knows, maybe they’re right.

Personally, I favor the idea that they’re just that self-involved and clueless, and they don’t realize the damage they’re doing to themselves.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

My dad has another theory.

He thinks that it’s because now, they’re invested in this, and in him. Because they did that LeBron Special, “The Decision.” Now that they’ve done that, they may feel like they’d look even more foolish to admit that they were complete morons and assholes to do it in the first place. Perhaps they feel like at this point, they have no choice but to defend themselves and their decision to back LeBron in the first place.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 21, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Isn't it sad though...

… that the level of competition in the league seems to be going down? I mean, I absolutely loved it when LeBron and Wade were shooting it out in the regular season. Now they’re playing together, and it seems that some of the competitiveness have gone out of the game. With the talk of CP3 asking for a trade, it’s just another example of how less competitive the game is becoming.

(Note: The game, not the players. I’m not questioning the players’ desire to win)

It’s just that, I would really rather see the superstars go at each other rather than play with each other. It’s much more fun and exciting that way.

And… a question. Can LeBron still be considered a ‘franchise player’ after this?

Showtime was that beautiful skyhook. It's the most beautiful shot that I've ever seen in basketball. - Magic Johnson

by chelsea173 on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Uh, I think so.

A franchise player is quite different from someone who is in the mix for the current and/or all time best/greatest. A franchise player is one who can lead the team to relative success — with relative success being defined not in championships, but in regular season wins and at least moderate playoff success. A franchise player is someone who can be the face of the franchise, the image of the franchise, drive ticket sales, sell out arenas, galvanize the fan base, etc. He’s a player you can build around to experience relative success — again, speaking in terms of games won and financial success, not necessarily championships won.

I believe LeBron meets those criteria.

They say if you can't beat them, join them. By joining them, LeBron just admitted he can't beat them.

by Josh Tucker on Jul 22, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

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