Byron Scott Would NOT Be a Decent Hire as Laker Head Coach
Yesterday, Dexter Fishmore did a great job explaining why Brian Shaw would be a decent hire if Phil Jackson decides to retire. In the midst of Jerry Buss's and Phil Jackson's season-long media battle regarding Jackson's return as coach, there has been one name that's remained constant as a possible candidate - Byron Scott. From the reports we've been hearing, it seems it may come down to Shaw or Scott as candidates to take over. We Lakers fans remember Scott from his days as shooting guard during Magic's glorious Showtime Era. Sure, the nostalgia of his playing days is nice and all if you're the sentimental type, and as a person who grew up watching Showtime, I'll always have some love for #4 with the high-top fade. Still, flashbacks and memories don't win championships. I can't help but feel that Byron Scott as a candidate is Jerry Buss and son trying to pull the wool over our eyes with old memories.
We could ask ourselves why this is even an issue. Realistically, the back-and-forth remarks between Phil and Jerry Buss should have ended the moment the Lakers won another championship. But no, we're left wondering what's going to happen while Phil decides whether he should retire. I think he's going to come back, but not before letting Buss know just how foolish he looks possibly pushing the greatest coach in NBA history out the door on the heels of O'Brien Trophy number eleven. Phil seems to have the leverage for now, but I'm sure there's probably more to the story than we are made privy to. For now we're left to wonder about replacements. So let's focus on Byron Scott and why he should not be the coach to inherit our defending champs.
First, let's get one thing out of the way. Byron Scott is not a bad coach. He's had success in this league, and a lot more of it than many other coaches could claim. He did take the New Jersey Nets to two straight NBA Finals appearances in 2002 and 2003. The Finals trips began just one year after a 26-win campaign. He also helped build the New Orleans Hornets from a woeful 18-64 team to a 56-26 record in 2007-08. It's not like the man is a dud.
It's about whether and how he could help the Lakers, a team fresh off of a repeat championship, in a system that has yielded Phil Jackson 11 championships in the past 19 seasons. A team that obviously knows how to get it done, considering their three straight Finals trips. The Lakers are at the height of success. There's no need to change a system that's obviously working great. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
In Dex's endorsement of Brian Shaw, he made some very good points regarding the difficulty of replacing Phil:
There are two criteria that should figure most prominently into the choice of a new Laker coach. One is systems continuity: the Lakers have won back-to-back titles running the Triangle offense and the strong-side trap on defense, so you want someone who knows that playbook and will continue to run it. Hiring someone wed to their own pet systems (think John Calipari and his dribble-drive attack) not only isn't necessary, but would be affirmatively harmful. Anyone in the mood for another year of Ron Artest trying to figure out where he's supposed to be on the floor? . . .
The second job requirement for a prospective Laker coach should be an ability to manage the complex assortment of personalities in the Laker locker room. Aside from Derek Fisher, every core member of the rotation needs to be handled delicately at times. The head coach, whoever he is, will have to persuade Kobe Bryant to throttle back his shooting occasionally, or maybe rest an injured limb for his and the team's long-term benefit. The coach may need to make sure Pau Gasol is still feeling loved in those moments when the guards are forgetting to feed him the ball. The coach will need to light a fire under Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom. He'll need to handle the next bout of Artest craziness, whatever form it might take. . . .
Let's just concede that no one is as well suited to this role as Phil Jackson. Phil has the rings, he has the authority, he has the experience with all of these players (save Caracter), and he has the even-keeled, "What, me worry?" temperament. That's why his potential retirement is such a big deal. Presiding over the Laker locker room is a high-stakes, high-degree-of-difficulty undertaking, and if Phil retires to the wilds of Montana, whoever's next in line won't be as good at the job.
Byron Scott is the complete opposite of both of those criteria. He's also been fired twice, both times in the middle of a season! The teams employing him thought the situations under which they let him go were bad enough that they could not let him finish the year. It's a telling sign of some fault in his style of coaching that this has happened twice now, after previous success.
Why was he fired? The first time, his players tuned him out. They quit on him. He lost his team. He lost them though his demanding and grating style. The second time? He lost them with their lack of confidence in his ability to devise in-game strategies. Does this sound like a man who could take over a team defending a championship? No doubt they would second-guess his decisions and authority if they clashed with what has gotten them there previously. Wouldn't Scott want to come in and do things his way? Wouldn't he have to? How else could he earn the respect of a championship staff, unless he implemented a system in which they know Scott has 100% confidence? In the style of coaching he feels best suits him?
Here are some complaints as they relate to the criteria described above.
Criteria 1. Systems Continuity
From Nola.com (Nov.12, 2009), New Orleans Hornets forward David West speaking out on the Hornets' coaching change:
"We're not going to be as predictable as we have been in the past. I know that, having played for Tim [Floyd] before," said West, a sixth-year veteran. "That's something I'm looking forward to, in terms of style of play." . . .
West said that the team's philosophy wasn't working, and Scott's pride might have been a factor.
"We've had some conversations over the past couple of weeks, just trying to figure out what we could do to get the ship righted, but ... pride is a crazy thing," he said. "I think pride is a dangerous, dangerous thing. I think there was a sense a few guys weren't trusting what we had in terms of our system and our ability to know what we were going to get every single night from our system."
From ESPN.com (Jan. 27, 2004), Scott fired by division leading Nets:
Kidd and forward Kenyon Martin also took issue with Scott's coaching moves during last year's Finals, including how the coach used former Net Dikembe Mutombo against San Antonio and his reluctance to call for double teams on center/Finals MVP Tim Duncan.In the series' decisive Game 6, the Spurs went on a 19-0 second-half run that ultimately finished New Jersey.
From At the Hive (May 1, 2009), The Past, Present and Future of Byron Scott:
So why do I give the Hornets a pass on D (going as far as to offer considerable praise), and yet bash their offense? Simple: lack of creativity. As innovative as Byron was on the defensive end, he was just as uncreative on the offensive end.
A healthy Chandler is as good a screen-setter as there is in the league. He takes great angles, never lets defenders know he's coming, rarely gets called for moving, routinely wipes out defenders simply by standing still, and rolls very smoothly to the hoop. Oh, and dunks a lot. When Chandler first came over from Chicago, Scott was smart enough to quickly pick up on this attribute of his and maximize its potential in the offense. The coach can't be blamed for the player getting injured and throwing a wrench in a working system.
The coach can be blamed for not trying to change up the system in the slightest. I mentioned a couple weeks ago that the most depressing aspect of the Hornets' non-Chandler offense was its startling resemblance to the Chandler offense. In other words, the plays remained exactly the same. Instead of Chandler setting the screens, it'd be Hilton "setting" the screen (also known, as getting called for moving). Instead of Chandler rolling, it'd be Marks "rolling." While every person in the arena could tell that Hilton/Marks did not have near the screening ability of Chandler, Byron consistently went to the same plays.
But on a positive note, these Lakers have transitioned themselves into an elite defensive team, and Scott does seem to be a good defensive coach. From the same At the Hive piece:
Scott's Nets history indicates that successful defensive game-planning is nothing new to him. In 2002, his New Jersey squad was the most efficient defensive team in the NBA, ceding 99.5 points/100 possessions. In 2003, his Nets again topped the NBA, ceding 98.1 points/100 possessions. In 2004, they slipped in the rankings to 4th, but only allowed 98.0 points/100 possessions. Since his departure following that season (and Kenyon Martin's it should be added), the Nets didn't come close to that kind of defensive success.
Given this defensive history with the Nets, Scott's defense with the Hornets should come as no surprise. He has really similar personnel, in the form of an elite perimeter defender in Paul (Kidd) and an elite post defender in Chandler (Martin). Like with the Hornets, the Nets had no significant defensive talents around their two best defenders.
Criteria 2. Ability to Manage Personalities in the Laker Locker Room
From the 2004 ESPN piece linked above, concerning Scott's firing by the Nets:
"It happens to almost every coach eventually: Your message isn't well received and taken onto the court," team president Rod Thorn said at a news conference announcing the change.
From Hornets247.com (May 4, 2009), Should Byron Scott Go? (H/T to Cavs the Blog)
All of the above is possible because of the very nature of Byron Scott's personality. Scott is a self-assured, strong personality. He's got a sizeable ego, and has no difficulty telling the players under him what he thinks of them and their abilities. It's that ego that allowed him put his stamp on the team and build it into a playoff contender.
And that ego may also be Byron Scott's downfall when it comes to gameplanning.
That ego allows Byron to be certain his way is best. It makes him certain that what he is doing is right. That may allow him to sleep well at night and control the team, but it also makes him stubborn and inflexible. That inflexibility shows up in his gameplanning - and has in every year he's been with the Hornets. Byron installs a gameplan during training camp, and from that moment on, it will not change.
And boy, do the Lakers have some personalities. Kobe, Pau, Ron, Bynum, Artest, Lamar, Fisher and Sasha. It would be extremely difficult to step in fresh and deal with Kobe, never mind Pau's subtle gripes about ball movement, Ron's craziness, Bynum's attention to defense, Lamar's laid back inconsistency, Fisher's regular season woes and Sasha's hair maintenance. Outside of Gregg Popovich, Pat Riley and maybe Larry Brown or Doc Rivers, what new coach brought in from the outside could handle such a daunting task? I could see the players trusting those coaches because of their championship pedigrees and systems and coaching styles that have been proven. Players trust success, especially when they're successful themselves.
Let's not forget: given that Scott inherited bad teams, it's safe to assume he was able to mold the teams under his direction and enforce his will from the start. That's not a luxury he will have should he coach the Lakers. The players will want to rely on the system they are built for and comfortable with. And let's also not forget the fact the the team is still figuring out how to mesh Artest and Bynum into the offense as starters. It would be foolish to press reset and make them learn things all over. Especially with such an offensively dominating player as Kobe. No matter how much he can frustrate us or his teammates, Kobe always knows that the system can be relied on. Eventually, even in the toughest situations, he and the team rely on the Triangle. What if it's gone? Is Byron Scott going to call pick-and-roll time and time again? Jeesh, I'm bored at the thought.
In summary, we have a candidate with a history of a bland, predictable offense (while having the reigning "best" point guard in the league both times), lack of strategy, and being so stubborn and controlling, his players quit on him, leading to two mid-season firings. Seems like the complete opposite of Phil. A laid back coach with an intricate offense that let's players figure it out, and has eleven rings to show for it. Including the last two. I don't think so. The reputation Scott has built for himself would follow him to LA like a silent fart. Pew. So I'm going to toss my hat in the ring against Byron Scott. My nostalgic feelings for Showtime don't overlook the fact that he isn't the guy the Lakers should look to should Phil Jackson leave. I don't have all of the answers, though, so I sought out some help. Guess what? No one seems to like this possibility. Here's what those I checked in with had to say:
- Dexter Fishmore of Silver Screen and Roll (Twitter: @dexterfishmore):
The case for hiring him seems to rest on two points, neither of which I find compelling. One is the work he did with the Nets at the beginning of the decade. While it's nice that he won Coach of the Year and twice made the Finals with that team, the Eastern Conference was really, really bad back then. I mean, just look at the teams he was competing against. 51 wins got you the top seed in either of those years. None of the Nets' competitors had more than one really elite player. The Boston team that NJ beat in the 2002 Conference Finals relied heavily on Antoine Walker and Kenny Anderson. The 2003 Pistons team they beat in the ECFs was a little better but hadn't yet become the powerhouse that would emerge in the middle of the decade. They still gave 30 minutes a night in the playoffs to Clifford Robinson.
Which isn't to argue that Scott did a bad job with the Nets, just that the "back to back Finals" credential is less impressive than it appears on the surface.
The second thing Scott has going for him is the turnaround he oversaw with the Hornets. And while it's true that he was at the helm when they made their 56-win run in 2007, he was also at the helm when the team faded back into the lottery. I'd argue that much of the turnaround was simply the result of drafting Chris Paul, the development of David West (to be expected, at least in part, based on his age) and the acquisition of Tyson Chandler. Eventually, Scott lost that team - witness their thrashing at the hands of the Nuggets in the 2009 playoffs - and he was affirmatively bad in his limited stint this year. For some reason he refused to give serious minutes to Darren Collison or Marcus Thornton, instead preferring Bobby and Devin Brown. That doesn't speak well of his talent-recognition skills.
I don't think Scott is a horrible coach or anything. It's just that other than Showtime nostalgia, I don't know why Laker fans should be warm to the idea of having him as their head coach.
- Darius Soriano of Forum Blue and Gold (Twitter: @forumbluegold):
First of all, let me say that I don't think Byron Scott is a bad coach. He's proven that he can get good results from the teams he's coached and he's obviously got a good pedigree from his days as a player under Riley.
That said, the negatives associated with Scott are real and I think those are enough for me to question whether or not he'd fit as the next Lakers head coach. Byron is a coach that is known to grate on his players and has worn out his welcome with two teams already. His schemes aren't known to be that creative and are mostly dependent on the creativity of a primary ball handler (Kidd, Paul) to be successful. Not to mention that he's reluctant to play young players (something that may not be an immediate issue considering the Lakers roster) and is often over-reliant on veterans regardless of how well they're actually playing.
Plus, from a Shaw vs. Scott perspective, I'd much rather ride with the familiarity of Shaw and the continuation of running the Lakers' current schemes. The Lakers' current roster was built to run the Triangle and changing that now - on the heels of back to back titles - is an approach that I'd find difficult to understand at this point. It'd be different if this team was in flux a la 2005 with major pieces departing, but that's simply not the case as the Lakers will return their top 5 players (6 if Fisher returns) and outside of Artest every returning player has been in this system for at least the last 3 years. Why go away from that now to hire Scott? I understand his Laker roots and the (reported) want of Dr. Buss wanting to get back to a running style but there are a lot of questions in my mind as to whether this roster is built for that style right now. The Lakers don't have an elite PG, have limited players that excel in the open court, and have a roster of players that are very good in the half court - especially in post up situations. In the end, I'd just much rather stick with Shaw if Phil does in fact retire.
- Phillip Barnett of Forum Blue and Gold (Twitter: @imsohideous):
I’m a part of the camp that’s against bringing in Byron Scott. I understand that he is much more experienced than Brian Shaw and led the New Jersey Nets to two Finals appearances, but bringing in Scott would essentially mean bringing in a whole new culture to the Lakers organization. The Lakers are currently built around the triangle system with the steady point guard, the high and low post position players and, of course, a dominant scorer. This isn’t a team built around a running point guard who has the ability to pick apart transition defenses – it’s actually the exact opposite. If the expected happens, Derek Fisher will be back for another season with the Lakers, and a Byron Scott offense would literally take away everything Fisher is out on the floor for. His effectiveness on the floor decreases exponentially with the number of seconds he has the ball in his hands. He isn’t able to find the soft spots in the opposing team’s defense and spot up for those rainbow threes. Fisher is completely unlike either of the elite point guards that Scott had during the tenure of his two head coaching stints (Jason Kidd and Chris Paul) and anything outside of the triangle just wouldn’t work well for an aging point guard with limited athletic ability.
And then there is the "why change the system" argument. The Lakers under Phil Jackson have now won five titles running some form of the triangle offense. They’ve been to three consecutive NBA Finals and have the roster to go to an unprecedented-in-this-era fourth straight. In this particular situation, consistency rules over experience – having this veteran team learn a new system could really take them out of their flow. Scott will be placed under a tremendous amount of pressure to bring a third title back to Los Angeles – and a huge story line throughout the course of the season will be how the Lakers, and especially Kobe, respond to playing in a new system. To me, I think staying within the organization and keeping the same ingredients to success will be just as key to a three-peat for the Lakers as health issues will. I don’t think Byron Scott is a bad coach and I believe he can be relatively successful – he just a bad fit for this particular Lakers team.
- J.D. Hastings, frequent Lakers blogs commenter (Twitter: @j_d_hastings):
People need to relax about hiring Byron as coach- he's exactly what Kobe needs right now. Everybody knows that Kobe's game has suffered from a lack of attention and leadership over his career. He needs a strong willed coach who's willing to step up and tell him to take less strokes; to take better strokes. When Kobe steps to the cup it's obvious that his game has atrophied from pursuing unrelated interests. Byron can get Kobe's head in the right place so he can focus on improving his follow through and long range game. With that help it's only a matter of time before Kobe catches or surpasses even Michael Jordan. In terms of handicap.
He's going to be the Laker golf coach right? They want him as basketball coach? Oh HELL no.
- Craig Kwasniewski of The Association Blog (Twitter: @ctkwasniewski):
One simple word comes to mind when I think of Byron Scott as a possible successor to Phil Jackson: Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!
Where do I start? X's and O's he's very Mike Brown on the offensive end of the floor. His Hornets squad literally ran one single solitary play with the high screen and roll with the center. It worked a lot two years ago simply because of Chris Paul's immense talent and his chemistry with Tyson Chandler. But better coached teams like San Antonio and the Lakers eventually exposed their bland offensive game plan and destroyed them. Motivationally, his previous two teams tuned him out by year three with complaints of longm grueling Riley-with-the-Knicks type of practices and the inability to adjust X's and O's wise. How does that fly with a very veteran team following the greatest coach in NBA history?
It doesn't and the Lakers shouldn't. Quite simply, hand the reigns over to Brian Shaw.
BTW - What's with Jerry Buss's high school crush on the Showtime Era? Someone needs to remind him that the prom queen is 20 years older, 45 pounds heavier and three kids later. Hey Jerry, just let it go!
Hmmmm. Seems unanimous. I still haven't come across a Lakers fan who wants Byron Scott. And now, you can add a Cavs fan that isn't so sure either, and they aren't being sold on nostalgia. What about you?
You can follow me on Twitter: @wondahbap . If you did, you'd know all of this already.
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I knew you were gonna be the one to write this.
I DO NOT want Byron as the coach. This team is built for the Triangle. Scott knows nothing of it. You think guys want an outsider to come in, and try to run things his way? You know the players are aware of the reasons why Scott was fired last time.
I don’t think he has the personality, or offensive know-how to direct this Laker team. He’s a good coach, like you said Wondah, but not for this team.
So I’m going to toss my hat in the ring against Byron Scott.
Throw mine in there too.
Good work.
Sweet 16
I hope Jerry Buss reads this article and posts
DO NOT HIRE BYRON SCOTT

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
by shaqfor3 on Jun 27, 2010 2:18 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
agreed wondahbap
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Where's Gil at?
Remember that video he posted during Lamar’s contract negotiations? I wish they made another just for Phil with that scene, even though it referenced Phi, “sitting on his ass” Haha.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Anyone see the latest Lebron rumor?
by Julio Nievas on Jun 27, 2010 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
shit
and they keep Deng too???
lets hope that does not happen.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
Good point
This can never happen if Deng is still there.
by Julio Nievas on Jun 27, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
there is no way
they are gonna have to give up someone like that if they do a sign and trade.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
I hope it does
I have faith in my team and we’d still be better than them.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Yeah, lets say it does happen.
Noah = Bynum. – Arguable.
Bosh = Gasol. – Gasol is slightly better.
Lebron > Artest
Deng < Kobe
Rose > Fisher
Factor in Fisher’s intangibles in the playoffs, Lamar off the bench, our triangle offense, Phil coaching our team (hopefully)… and we’d have an epic battle, but not an unwinnable one.
"I’m like a superhero. Call me Basketball Man." - LBJ
Bynum healthy > almost any big
Problem is Bynum healthy is almost as rare as finding tangible evidence for extra-terrestrial intelligence.
by USA!USA!USA! on Jun 27, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Definitely, but I can never rely on Bynum being fully healthy.
"I’m like a superhero. Call me Basketball Man." - LBJ
Hell, an injured bynum is still pretty good.
Just having his big body and long arms down-low is nice.
"They call me the Muffin Man"
by true_lakerfan on Jun 28, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
and add phil to that mix? i hope not.
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
Well... unless you're adding Phil to LA, he's not in the equation.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
what kind of offense would they run?
lebron and rose are both ball dominant.
by lakers are trouble on Jun 27, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep Lebron...
more off the ball. He might not like it and it might throw him off. Oh well. You are a SF after all, Lebron.
by USA!USA!USA! on Jun 27, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
yea then he will pout and regret signing there then tank and destroy the team chemistry
then lakers crush em! YEA!!
by lakers are trouble on Jun 27, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
and then bosh needs his 15 to 18 shots a game
deng needs his 12 to 15 shots per game
lebron and his 20 shots
and rose and his 18 shots
thats 70 shots for 5 players!
They're gonna have to go really fast.
Only Gilbert can save them! Based on his blog.
by USA!USA!USA! on Jun 28, 2010 3:43 AM PDT up reply actions
umm,
Lebron dribble, pass to Rose dribble, crossover alley-oop to Lebron. or Lebron dribble, pass to Bosh, Bosh gets shot drains it. They’d literally be able to play and-1 bball in the NBA and thats the only way their skillsets mesh. There is no system that will utilize Lebron and Rose’s skils to the max because they both need the ball in their hands to do work. I mean I don’t know the last time I saw either of them set a screen
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O
They won't keep Deng
They’d still have to do a sign and trade in order to get Bosh unless he takes a smaller salary.
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O
Actually, not if they're actually going to unload Hinrich on Washington.
Bosh might get a few hundred k less than a max contract, but the difference would be purely negligible.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 28, 2010 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Really,
Nvm, I looked it up. I see it now. Before they would’ve needed to sign and trade, but then I’m guessing they don’t plan on signing anyone else to come off the bench. I still don’t think its the best idea for him to go there. A new defensive-minded head coach trying to figure out a system to make it work with two ball heavy contributors in Lebron and Rose, not to mention also running plays for Bosh. I just don’t see it working out that well. Great if you’re playing NBA 2K11, but not if you’re playing in the NBA where the coach’s system is actually important. I guess we will see though.
Unfortunately the legend of MJ has long surpassed the reality of MJ. -Jevon O
Wonder if we can start an online petition to Buss/Kupchak?
Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...
I had the same idea a year ago
no one jumped on it but I would joining in, who knows if they actually listen to the petition
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
i like my giant *please come back*card idea better
but i guess an online petition will do LOL
by lakers are trouble on Jun 27, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
this is coming down to money. jackson wants to coach. somebody posted that the lakers (jerry buss) only profited 15-20 million dollars this season. is this true? how much have they gained in previous seasons compared to this one and can someone compare it to other teams? i suppose if that figure is correct it does not sound like an awful lot.
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
only 15-20 million??
gosh he is gonna have to move into the poorhouse soon…lol
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
it doesn’t sound like a lot for this kind of business. then again, i really have no idea how much nba teams usually profit each year.
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
It's actually a pretty important number
With our payroll as high as it is AND only making 2M per home playoff game there is not a lot of margin for error to go unprofitable. With poor management, the team could lose buckets of money in the next few years.
by USA!USA!USA! on Jun 27, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
It is not worth it to dicker with Phil over a few million...
He earns his money. He is the best coach for this team and the best option to get them those home playoff games. The difference between what it will take to sign Phil and his replacement is what 7 mil? That’s only 3 home playoff games. Just sign him. His coaching helps this franchise make money! Didn’t they learn this when Rudy T was here?
I don't like superstitious people. They're bad luck.
by Rich Langford on Jun 28, 2010 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Twas me.
From an LAT article, Jerry Buss is used to around 40mill profits a year, and between all the contract extensions, ad revenue decreasing, and not being able to raise ticket prices the profits dropped to about 20mill. Not good for him, considering the Lakers are his only business and there’s an imminent lockout. Of course, he could give up high-stakes gambling and being a sugar-daddy, but it’s unlikely.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 28, 2010 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I've seen and heard about his play...
He’s fairly tight and careful. If he loses it’s, probably not a ton. He’s REALLY not a gambler. I doubt very much he’s going to lose a great deal gambling. Not that I’m the authority, but based on evidence that I’ve encountered, that is not a problem.
Being a sugar daddy… Now what kind of a guy are you to ask him to give that up!? If you could, would you?
by USA!USA!USA! on Jun 28, 2010 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions
He's the owner of the freaking Lakers.
He doesn’t need to pay to get girls.
If Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, how on Earth does Adam Morrison have two rings!?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 30, 2010 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Cash Flow?
That means his cash flow is down, right? Because I’m sure the value of his club is now at an all-time high, probably rivaling some elite baseball and football clubs.
by all the good names were taken on Jun 29, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, his year-by-year profits have been halved.
Due to not being able to raise ticket prices, sponsorships being reduced or ended due to companies having financial difficulties and TV money is slightly reduced. Simultaneously, payroll has skyrocketed since Bynum’s extension, acquiring Pau and Ron, keeping LO (when not originally planning to), and now Kobe and Pau’s extensions.
If Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, how on Earth does Adam Morrison have two rings!?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 30, 2010 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions
But the Jackson issue isn't money, not any more.
He’s had some new health issues come up.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 28, 2010 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea
I think Shaw has sat under Phil long enough to pick up on how to run the triangle.Kobe and company seems to respect him and he would be way cheaper than Phil if Buss decides he don’t want to pay Phil alot of money anymore.
by LakersMania on Jun 27, 2010 3:41 PM PDT reply actions
I do suspect that some of Buss' request for a paycut
is due to the fact that Phil lobbied to retain Lamar when Buss didn’t to. Especially at $9 mill per. So Jerry is probably looking at it like, “You wanted Lamar. He’s costing me $18 million, you had better have won with this roster. Now you take less. I paid for a team that damn well had better won it all. With or without you. Now take $8-10 mill and shut the fuck up! Or I’ll hire Byron Scott. He’s a Laker great!”
Phil’s thinking: “Yeah right. See how that goes. I want my money….what? Nets job gone? D’Antoni still in New York? I’m not going to Cleveland and neither I LeBron. Fuck, I threaten to retire. You’ll pay me my $12 million. No less than $10 mill.”
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
They are both masters of negotiation.
But Dr. just pay the man. christ this is not the spot to get petty. Just think of it as a nice gift to your daughter if nothing else.
I don't like superstitious people. They're bad luck.
by Rich Langford on Jun 28, 2010 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
a bit off topic but interesting:
http://www.playersvoice.com/nba/love-to-hate.html
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
that was a sweet read
"You are asking me if LeBron is going to New York?, I’m trying to tell you in a polite way, I don’t give a shit"
great read.
i personally know a bunch of he’s not jordan kobe haters
by lakers are trouble on Jun 27, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
get ready for the next talking point
Kobe’s never beaten THE KING in the finals, so he’ll never be the greatest ever.
Logic has nothing to do with hate.
by Benjamin Wang on Jun 27, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Kobe's never beaten a lotta guys in the Finals.
Gods, he must suck!
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
it's not like it's kobes fault
kobe and the lakers have been to the finals 3 straight years. while lebron and company keep faultering. so yea they can keep saying that. we have the sticking point. kobe 3 straight finals appearance. lebron 3 straight disapearances
by lakers are trouble on Jun 27, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Beating Lebron is not the measuring stick.
Lebron needs to win a championship against any team before this is even relevant in any conversation. Kobe is the man until proven otherwise. Until then, Adam Morrison is still a champ and Lebron watches the finals at home in his lounger.
by LizzakeShizzow on Jun 28, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
WOW. That pretty much summed up the entire KB-hating media
Except I’d also add an extra category called the ex-NBA Player turned ESPN Analyst KB hater since ESPN loves to hire all these ex-NBA Players that Kobe’s defeated throughout his career.
The “Mr. I-know-basketball-more-than-you” and the “history guy” hater = everyone on ESPN’s NBA basketball analysis team (except Magic). Can you say, Hollinger, Abbot, Mike Wilbon, Jon Barry … hello?! All of them are HUGE KB haters and every year they’ll try to find another reason as to why KB is the 2nd best player in the league and some other player (hi LBJ, CP3, D-Wade is better).
Oh and Kelly Dwyer is an absolute “Mr. I-know-basketball-more-than-you” and the “history guy” KB hater.
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Jun 27, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Hello Mike Wilbon:
Mr. History Guy KB Hater:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCBJH7hJQN4
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Jun 27, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
Mike Wilbon is wrong that’s all. Kobe is a great player but he has not done for the Los Angeles Lakers all that Magic and Jerry West have. Jerry West has done so much for the Lakers on different levels: as a player, coach and GM he brought together championship teams and played on a championship team. He built most of what Kobe has enjoyed success with. Magic brought the Lakers back into the championship fold. He vanquished the hated Boston Celtics before any Laker team had. He gives to the community through his work as an entrepreneur. The man means everything to the Laker family. He is, in my opinion, the greatest Laker ever. Jerry West would be second and then Kobe. All three are career Lakers and that is why they deserve to be head and shoulders above the rest. Kareem, Wilt and Shaq were all players for different teams and should not be considered all-time Laker players.
If I based my opinion upon just being a player, it would be Magic, Kobe, then West and Baylor. The greatest Laker has to do more than just play.
Great players win games. Great teams win championships.
Oh, and one more for Charles Barkley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2qHftJMqKw
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Jun 27, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
very interesting, thanks for the link shaqfor3
right on the money, summarizing the KH nicely, he is missing the stat-geek hater(Hollinger) who says Kobe stats don’t measurer up to Jordans or Lebrons so thats why he sucks or isn’t the best or is second best or isn’t MVP of his own team. But overall it was a nice piece of writing.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
funny thing is some of the comments prove the exact point he was making
you’d thing the posters know better.
Ron Artest is a champion!
i don't understand the "i'll root for anyone who play the lakers people"
its like they just want to make people angry
That was fun.
I wish he included the "If Player
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
by wondahbap on Jun 27, 2010 9:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
From the comments on that article.
Forget Kobe – Forget Kobe |2010-06-27 20:51:35
Kobe is bad for the game of basketball that’s why, even his hometown hates him -
which speaks volumes…
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
I guess it’s cos he gets to the Finals every second year he plays (14 yrs, 7 Finals appearances), thus breaking team’s hearts and destroying non-Lakers’ opportunities?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 28, 2010 3:14 AM PDT up reply actions
??????????
What happen to Clemens do we still have him on the staff,and who else on our coaching staff that can be a potiential coach for us if any.Clemens for one should know the triangle shouldn’t he,wasn’t he with Phil during his days in Chicago and withus in the Shag days.
by LakersMania on Jun 27, 2010 3:47 PM PDT reply actions
He's a quiet carer assistant.
You need a guy who wants to be head coach. He’d probably remain an assistant with Shaw, if Shaw is given the job.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
another thing i don't like about scott
is that he sacrificed player development(julian wright, collison, thornton) for veteran mediocrity(mo pete, devin brown).
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Don't forget the great Bobby Brown
Another one of Byron’s beloved veterans (who suck at NBA basketball). He was the guy taking minutes from Collison. Not only that, but the front office made repeated requests to Byron to play Collison and Thornton, and Byron refused…then went out and played another 18 holes.
by The Dude Abides on Jun 27, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay I get it
Byron Scott is the evil Mike Brown.
are those jack russell terriers? vicious looking lil dogs
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
Don't know what breed they are, but my mate has one.
They’re actually cute, it’s just a bad pic.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
Questions? Queries? Comments? Concerns? Expletive-filled inflammatory trolling? Contact me at saurav.a.das.1994@gmail.com
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 29, 2010 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Seems like these arguments ...
are more for Phil than against B Scott. The biggest thing seems to be that this team really is built more for Phil and only Phil to coach it.
I’m not dismissing the arguments. They sound fascinating. I’m just not so sure Brian Shaw would do that much better. Cause he’d run the triangle? Jim Cleamons ran the triangle. Didn’t do him much good. Scott has an in-your-face style? Are we really sure kissing @$$ is the best thing to do with these players? Doesn’t seem like that’s exactly what Phil did. He would challenge, taunt in the media, pat on the back ever so slightly. Again, this seems more of an endorsement of Phil than a strike against Scott. Mainly because I’m not so sure Shaw would do that much better. Are we sure players wouldn’t tune him out? Are we sure his inexperience wouldn’t overwhelm him? Is it such a crime to be fired midseason? Phil wasn’t fired midseason but he was essentially made a lame duck twice in Chicago and here. Was that his fault? And Scott was fired but have the Hornets or Nets approached anywhere near the success they had with him? They are the Nets and Hornets, btw. Something to think about.
Not discounting the arguments against Scott, I just don’t think that necessarily qualifies Shaw. Particularly when you realize anybody that isn’t Phil, is going to be in for a very difficult assignment. Phil is the one I want. Anybody that isn’t him comes with substantial risk.
"They need security in the world, Craig!"
It's a good idea to embrace continuity...
…when your team has made the NBA Finals three straight seasons, and is a two-time NBA champion. And if the new coach doesn’t understand your offense (or how to implement ANY offense), and is known for holding up the team plane on travel days so he can get in a full 18 holes.
by The Dude Abides on Jun 27, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Continuity's name is Phil Jackson ...
He got us to three straight Finals. Not Shaw.
Anybody else is not continuity. They can run the same system, talk like him, act like him.
But they are not him.
It’s a fools bet to believe anyone can duplicate his success.
"They need security in the world, Craig!"
No one's arguing that Phil isn't the best option
We’re evaluating candidates to replace him, should he choose to retire.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jun 27, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
'Xactly.
But sooner or later… it’ll have to be broached.
Unless, of course, he goes the whole “become-a-lord-of-the-undead” type deal. Which would be a bit passé given Jerry Sloan’s already done that.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
Just seems like Scott's weaknesses ...
are being judged against Phil’s strengths, which is standard I don’t think anyone can withstand.
And Shaw is somehow getting credit for running the triangle, or the probability that he’ll run it if selected, when that’s not entirely the point. The point is the triangle works in conjunction with Phil. Yeah, Scott may bring in a new system. But the fact that Shaw won’t doesn’t guarantee success. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not the system, or familiarity that breeds success. It’s Phil.
I don’t have a problem with the rest of the analysis.
"They need security in the world, Craig!"
But
Shaw has been on the sidelines with the team for years. As assistant, a player views Shaw as an extension of Jackson. He already has their respect, he already knows how to deal with their personalities from observing how Phil deals with them. He knows the core players’ limitations and what it takes to motivate them. He was also probably instrumental in many of them being on the team since he was the front office scout for many years. And not only is it Phil that breeds success, it’s the personnel to execute the game plan. Phil can go to the Timberwolves and bring the triangle with him and guess how many games they win next year?
by all the good names were taken on Jun 29, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, coaches are far easier to get rid of than coaches.
And until that changes, then “managing/massaging egos” is going to be part of the job description for NBA coaches.
What works for one, may not necessarily work for another. I like the idea of Shaw as a replacement if a replacement is necessary, merely because it causes the least disruption to the unit.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
Coaches are [easier to get rid of] than coaches?
Call me crazy and an amateur philosopher and ontologist, but wouldn’t coaches be equally easy to get rid of than coaches, being the same thing based on identity theory?
Or call me a smartass… That’s probably accurate as well.
by USA!USA!USA! on Jun 28, 2010 3:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh dear...
Well, “coaches are far easier to get rid of than players” is what that should have read.
Busy day, I guess.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
Is it such a crime to be fired midseason?
Yes, I think it is. Getting rid of a coach midseason is a traumatic event for a team, and the situation has to be really bad for a franchise even to consider it. It means the organization has identified the coach as an active source of harm to the players. It’s basically the franchise saying, “You are doing such an awful job, we would rather punt the rest of this season and eat your remaining salary, paying you to do nothing, than expose our players to you any further.”
Keep in mind, this has happened to Byron not once, but twice. Out of two NBA head-coaching jobs he’s held in his career. Make a list of the top 10 guys you’d like to see coach the Lakers, and ask how many of them have seen 100% of their head-coaching gigs end with their getting cashiered in the middle of a season.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jun 27, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Fired is fired Dex. Middle, end who gives a shit.
I dont think being fired should be used as a reason for not hiring a coach, especially since almost all great coaches in any sport have been fired at one time or another. (Not that im calling B.Scott a great coach) Personally i think Shaw is a better fit not a better coach. And as far as his players tuning out his message after a few years, i seem to remember a certain Laker coach by the name of Pat Riley being tuned by his players as well. It happens
OK, fired is fired
I don’t agree, but whatever. It’s not that Byron has been fired “at one time or another.” It’s that he’s been fired from every head coaching gig he’s ever held.
Are we not supposed to consider his established track record in evaluating his suitability to the position? Let’s say you were hiring for a job – any job – and the person you were considering had held the same job twice before. Both times, he got fired because (a) his employer was completely dissatisfied with the results he was producing, and (b) the people he worked with couldn’t stand him. You would just disregard these facts with an “It happens”?
Not only is it valid to consider these factors, it would be grossly negligent for the Lakers not to.
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Jun 27, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
this
Czheck Productions
My Instrumentals
Forget Lebron chasing Kobe,hes got to catch up to Adam Morrison first
Showtime didn't tune him out because of his strategies...
they blamed his boot camps for the injuries in the 1989 playoffs. The team had made the NBA Finals for seven of the previous eight seasons, with the one earlier loss being the 1986 Conference Finals. It was a veteran team that got sick of two-a-day practices for six consecutive days between playoff series (they frequently swept their opponents). They wanted time to rest, because they were always playing until June every season, meaning shorter off seasons than the rest of the NBA. They blamed Riley for Byron’s torn hamstring and Magic’s severely strained hamstring that occurred right after seven consecutive two-a-day practices after the team went 11-0 in the Western Conference playoffs.
The 2010 Lakers are a veteran squad too. They don’t need a loud, stern, cocky, “disciplinarian” to tell them how things are done, especially when they’ve made three straight finals with a coach who is just the opposite, and the golf-playing “disciplinarian” keeps getting fired.
by The Dude Abides on Jun 27, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree about it being more pro-Phil than For Shaw.
Personally, I’m not sold on Shaw being THE guy to replace Phil, but I prefer him to Scott. I want Phil back. This team us built to suit him. Or vice versa.
I never said he was a bad coach. Just that what we know about him isn’t suited to this job. Even though those teams haven’t had the success since Scott, he did inherit bad teams and was able to put his imprint on them (along with snagging elite point guards like Kidd and Paul during his tenure). That is the complete opposite of stepping into a Championship team. He can feel justified in anything hrle feels is right with an 18 win team. That shit won’t fly with two time defending champs. To them, it’d be a bother if things didn’t go smooth.
As far as ass kissing, i don’t Shaw would, but I to feel most coaches, including Scott would do their share. I highly doubt an outside guy can come in and think they have the nuts to tell Kobe he’s wrong. At least with Shaw, it’s familiar. No outside guy gets this gig without Kobe’s blessing. I don’t want z coach who will kiss Kobe’s, nor Pau’s ass.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
by wondahbap on Jun 27, 2010 8:57 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Not just the ass-kissing of the team stars...
but so many accounts detail Byron treating his role players like crap, while kissing the ass of his stars at the same time. That can work with a young team, but it won’t work with this Laker team.
by The Dude Abides on Jun 27, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
If I got this right there are 2 issues
System
I do not see the team hiring a new coach that changes the system, period. This is even if all of the assistants wish to leave. I say it like that because successful teams do not make wholesale coaching and system changes just because the head guy retires. Which Phil is doing because the man knows his body is done. His heart wants to keep going but the body will not comply. So this is no ploy and if he comes back for another year, we will be right back here next year. The worthy assistants will be offered contracts to help the transition and provide continuity. The Lakers employed various offensive and defensive tactics in these playoffs alone and do not depend on any one particular set to win. This is why they are the champs.
The triangle only works when the shooters are making shots. So the tactics must change when their not making shots. Just how many open jumpers were made in the 4th quarter of the 3 losses to Boston? Or even game 3? Without Kobe, neither Ariza or Artest gets their open 3’s these past finals. But was it the triangle or simple spacing? Are we to expect the next coach will require Artest to hit jumpers off of down screens. Also, lets us not forget how many times MJ broke the triangle and drove the lane when it was not defended or took fade jumpers when it was.
So what I think we are really talking about is adjustments and tweaks in the system during the playoffs. Was there an adjustment that would have allowed NJ to win in 2002, no, only Kidd and Martin hitting open jumpers could have made that series competitive. Same for 2003. This liability allowed teams to shut NJ down as long as they got back on D. Only now are those guys hitting wide open jumpers at a serviceable 50%. In NO let us look at what Byron really had to work with. Paul, an all world offensive talent. David West a jump shooter with no post moves going to the basket. Chandler, the dunker who should have gone to college and developed some game. Sounds like not much more than isolation with West or pick’n roll with Paul. Was it a surprise that Pop was able to shut that down, or that it took SA 7 games to do it?
The system starts with Kobe or Pau in single coverage passing to open shooters when they get doubled. If the shooters hit, the double is off, leaving Kobe and Pau to work. If both spot up shooters are missing, there is no triangle option that works and the adjustments are required. 4th quarter Game 3 is a perfect example. The triangle is unstoppable when both spot up shooters are hitting. The triangle will remain a staple in the offense as long as Kobe has teammates he can trust. Regardless of the coach.
Personality
The only way Bryon fails is if he makes changes that cause failure. Like changing the system and putting the players in positions doomed to fail. And he would do this because his ego is so big? Are we to assume that Mitch and the Buss’s would hire a coach that risked it all in an effort to show up Phil? This sounds silly on face value alone. Do you not think Bryon will be happy to be surround by proven winners, knowing that if he listened, he might hear something good? I am quite sure that his ego will allow player input every bit as much as Phil. There should be know doubt about the Buss’s wanting to win. That is how they make money and they will not want to jeopardize it foolishly.
In the heat of battle is when bonds are made or broken. It can be the little things that make the difference. Like taking the ball out of bounds at 3/4 court to allow for transition 3’s. The trust and understanding between coach team is built over time. Neither Brian or Byron will start the season with it. Either will have to build it. The big adjustments can be seen and made by any coach, it is the small tweaks that players execute flawlessly that can be the difference. Then again, it could be a batted ball out to the 3 point line that is then drained for a game winning 3 that makes all the difference.
Yes I remember Byron hitting open jays against Boston in game 6 at Boston. That will always be my favorite memory of him. I also remember him being hurt during a boot camp before the 89 finals. Just as the Captain trusted a young Byron in the biggest game of the year, Byron will ask Kobe to do the same with some new kid. Just as an overzealous coach damaged his team, Byron will protect the team from unwarranted harm. Protect the team and get them to trust each other. Phil was a master at these, as was Doc, it is no wonder they met in the finals twice.
Yes I think Brian will be a good head coach. But I think Bryon has already proven to be a good head coach. Let us hope the Lakers make the right choice, whoever it is.
Yes, Byron Scott has been a good coach. No one doubts that.
for team that absolutely stunk when he took over. He was able to build them up with his style. Eventually, his style wore his players out. He has been somewhat successful with it. Why would change it? This Lakers team doesn’t need that. They’re there already. This isn’t a situation where Scott comes in with his way and whips scrubs into shape. This is maintaining a great thing. Byron Scott might be suited to building teams up, like Larry Brown. So far, all we’ve seen is those teams peak and fall hard. You must pay attention to that. It means that Scott tops out. Once the team get good, and the NBA catches on, there is no other answers. No counter attack once he’s figured out. There is no getting better. Twice this has happened.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
The coach is always the scapegoat
The organization was at fault in both cases, just as in Chicago when Phil left there.
Once the team peeks and it is clearly short of talent to be champs, it is on the organization to re-tool the lineup. Did the Yanks win the World Series because they dispatched Torre or because they bought some starting pitchers? Few teams have the grit to continuously grind out a good season like Utah, knowing they need some lucky breaks to be champs. This environment is where you can see the heart of players, those that are found wanting should be avoided in any future deals.
Byron deserves some criticism in NO for not being able to keep “his” team completing as professionals. Maybe he has learned some things, if not, then this will be borne out in the interviewing process. But, NJ was all on Jason Kidd. Had Kidd put in the work to make his jumper serviceable, like Magic, Cooper, Tony Parker and countless other professionals, he may have gotten lucky enough to beat SA.
As I said before, if Byron’s ego is going to require him to establish a new system, the Lakers will look elsewhere. As they should, I highly doubt there will be many forced changes in the system or staff by the new coach.
Some news on Phil
it is?
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
by desecrator09 on Jun 27, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
it's neither
again, it all depends on his health, whether or not he thinks he’ll have the same effect on the lakers as karl did to the nuggets.
"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."
"Lets go for for it again"- Kobe Bryant, 2010 Championship ceremony.
I agree with akb24b
I guess it’s both. But it’s good to hear he wants to coach. At first, I thought he wanted to be done with coaching once and for all.
We're all spoiled....
…..and selfish….
Though I would love to see Phil back as head coach, Phil’s health is what should matter most. I’m grateful for what he’s brought to the city of LA in 5 championships but it’s time he leans back on his high chair and put his feet up on Red Auerbach’s back for the remainder of his life.
Phil should retire on top.
Brian Shaw as head coach wouldn’t bother me as long as they keep the triangle.
That’s my two cents.
Kobe: "If you’re afraid to fail, then you’re probably going to fail," he says, laughing. "You know what I mean? Fuck it."
You all make some valid points, but I think it's important to get Michael Scott's take on the "Scott Situation"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr83UrbZb1Y
"I came back with an I-Don't-Care attitude. If I had an open shot, I was taking it."
--The Robert Horry
I bleed Purple N' Gold and Silver N' Black... because of this rare condition, I am no longer allowed to donate to the Red Cross.
by The_Power_and_the_Glory_of_Robert_Horry on Jun 28, 2010 3:01 AM PDT reply actions
Some news on NBA TV via Ric Bucher...
Now anyone following the NBA/Kobe know that Ric isn’t always right, but’s he’s decent. Here’s what he says:
Phil wants good money.
Lakers don’t want significant long term financial commitment.
Lakers will sign Phil for 12M for 1 year.
I’d take that.
Phil doesn't want to sign for more than one year, either..
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
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by Saurav A. Das on Jun 28, 2010 6:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I still think this article is legit.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=As7aUvyv6FaHF3MWm7XVNWU5nYcB?slug=ap-jackson-lakers
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
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by Saurav A. Das on Jun 28, 2010 6:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Phil wants
option years. I would assume one year is easy, and guaranteed. But it would be in Phil’s best interest to hold the option to coach another year or two if he wanted to.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
I thought that
the biggest consideration for Phil was his health? I think the travelling is just wearing down on him. Jeannie Buss even thought the grind of the road finally did him in. I’m thinking Phil may sign just a 1 year extension for a last swan song. If he wins, he goes out on top, having 4 3-peats under his belt, probably never happen again in any of our lifetimes. If he loses, it’s a sign he should call it a career.
by all the good names were taken on Jun 29, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
i say hell no
he wasn’t good enough as the hornets coach. if he’s our coach, say good by to our threepeat.
Marc Spears: Scott not waiting on Phil
Good news if it’s true. Scott belongs in Cleveland.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Av8mMAhrwZgiYCMgLXCkfDe8vLYF?slug=mc-scottcavs062810
PRAISE THE LORD!!!
It’s a perfect fit really. He gets to coach another loser team (cuz LeBron ditched them for Chicago), wear on the players, and get fired in the middle of a season again,
and we get Shaw or Phil, then Shaw.
Everybody is happy!
Today's sports media excels at over-reaction to a single event and specializes in hyperboles. But hey, it's that or my biochem textbook...
Byron's problem...
He learned how to coach from watching Pat Riley in the 80’s. What Pat Riley did in the 80’s worked for those Lakers because Magic and Kareem understood that he wasn’t yelling and stressing on them, he was doing their motivating FOR them. And when those guys did their jobs, everyone was happy. That’s why Riley was able to get a title out of Miami…half a season of Riles is enough to fire anyone up, but if you don’t have a team who “gets it” they lose interest fast because they think they’re being picked on. That’s why the big babies in Jersey gave up on getting yelled at and partially why NO gave up as well. Byron needs a superstar or two who “gets it” regarding how to think like a champion instead of just using your natural ability to steamroll opponents. Actually, he’d work well in Boston if Doc steps down. Ironic?
Best argument anyone has made for Byron Scott yet.
Those are good points as far as the grating style he has, but following Phil would magnify his style. Largley because this team doesn’t need to be “pushed” in the same sense Scott’s teams were (or even that ’06 Miami team). Plus, there still predictable strategy that players had a big problem with.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Phil yelled at Lamar in game 7
For crying about a non call on offense and not getting back on D to contest a Pierce made 3. Then Phil called time out to make sure Lamar and the team got the point. Phil was not demonstrative, but he still had to call them out during the 2nd half of a game 7. Even Fish had moments like this, in a Game 7 for heavens. Sad, but this team has to many times like this when a coach needs to crack the whip and get them to just shut up and play. I have seen Byron be effective, I hope Brian has the right instinct and timing to be as effective as Phil.
I do not know how Boston fans can take watching their team, they take crying to a new level.
But no one has implied that the Lakers shouldn't have a coach that cracks the whip.
No one thinks Phil doesn’t get on his guys when he needs to. Most of the points being made is that Byron Scott’s style has shown to grow tiresome, and considering the role and team he would be stepping into, it isn’t in the best interests of this team.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
We will have to disagree on Byron
It is grating when the coach keeps repeating the same thing. How many times did Pop tell Tony Parker to work on his jumper before he listened? Why did Cooper develop into a clutch 3 shooter? The Lakers are full of players that realize the coaching staff asks them to improve parts of their game for the betterment of the team.
All styles grow tiresome when the players sense futility. Atlanta is a case in point this year. What changes or growth were they planning on to get them to the finals? I did not hear about Smith and Horford improving their post games or Johnson working on a pull-up jumper. It took Atlanta all of 1 qrt to realize they did not have enough skills to beat Orlando. I did hear about and see improvement in Howard’s post moves from last years finals. I doubt their new coach Drew can organize the Hawks current skills to generate more offense against Orlando next year. Without skill growth from Smith and Horford, that team is going nowhere again in the playoffs.
This is the beauty of winners like Kobe, Magic and MJ. They keep adding skills to their game. Their leadership shows the others how to be professional. The players police themselves most of the time. I do not see Bryon affecting this dynamic. Why would he try?
His job would be to blend a new bench. We are all assuming Brown and Farmar will go elsewhere for fame and fortune. So the team will be looking for a backup point guard. One that can shoot like Fish, jump like Brown and penetrate like Farmar. He will need one of the new picks to show they can play defense well enough to shoulder at least 15 minutes.
A name that has not been floated and one I think would be just as good a choice as Shaw
Is Jim Cleamons, for his relationships with the players, and his long history with the triangle offense
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Career assistant.
I think he’ll be retained, but he’s like Frank Hamblen. Not a lead guy.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Did this get any national links I'm not aware of?
It’s getting ridiculous numbers of Page Views.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
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Mostly yahoo.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
by wondahbap on Jun 29, 2010 3:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Shaw with Cleavland. If not Scott, who?
Brian Windhorst: Brian Shaw still is not officially #Cavs coach, sources say, but becoming pretty obvious he’s the guy once contract is worked out. Over 1 hour ago.
The Cleveland Cavaliers are finalizing a multiyear contract to hire Los Angeles Lakers assistant Brian Shaw as coach, a source close to the process told Y! Sports. Shaw made a strong impression on owner Dan Gilbert in face-to-face meetings in the past two days and beat out Byron Scott for the job. The Cavaliers wanted to have a coach hired before the start of free agency on Thursday.
Yahoo! Sports
"...where they don't play with a shot clock." - C. Sager
So that "keep your mouth shut, until after July 1st because it's tampering"
is completely out of the window??
Sweet 16
Yeah, as of a month or so ago.
After Mark Cuban and Doug Collins got fined, that was it.
"How it feel to be a hater, now I know exactly how it feels to be a Laker." - Jay-Z
I'm curious
I think Phil will return for a year or two, then that’s it. Just a gut feeling, nothing really behind it.
After that, I’m not sure about Byron. I think a lot of how successful that situation would be depends on how much he’s willing to maintain continuity. Kobe has made a big deal, in the last couple of years, about how he and Phil are “on the same page,” how one of them will say something, and a second later, the other will repeat it, unaware of the first. Because the triangle relies on split-second reactions to momentary imbalances on the defense, any kind of hesitation makes it much less effective at obtaining good looks. Anything that works to disrupt that almost subliminal consonance between coach and superstar is going to be a problem.
Kobe has also mentioned that Phil is effective because he’s not a rah-rah kind of coach (his words). He doesn’t try to pump you up; compare, for instance, Van Gundy in the 2009 Finals. Kobe acknowledges that that approach can work in the short term, but becomes ineffective in the long term because players just end up tuning it out—not intentionally, necessarily, but in the same way that you naturally tune out anything that’s always going on.
A lot of what makes Phil successful takes place off the court. I’ve never been immensely impressed by his in-game tactical abilities. They’re fine, nothing wrong with them, but it’s not his forte, in my opinion. A lot is made of his reluctance to take time-outs, that his teams are somehow more successful because he allows them the latitude to work their way out of their own doldrums, but in my opinion, that’s hogwash. Practices are where he trains his players to make their reactions in the triangle offense second nature, so that muscle memory and not explicit thought governs your actions. (We always thought Ron-Ron was thinking too much in the offense.) That preparation is what makes his players thrive without excessive time-outs, but that doesn’t mean they’re better because they don’t take time-outs. They’re better because they’re prepared. Whoever succeeds Phil, if they don’t recognize that, they’re going to be leading a team that won’t get it together come playoff time.
Wishful Thinking...
But what if getting Byron Scott meant being able to pursue a certain point guard he coached in New Orleans? WIthout giving up our core? Hehe :)
Acknowledge Me!!!
by Ron Artest's Wheaties on Jun 29, 2010 7:59 PM PDT reply actions
We've done pretty well without an elite PG.
No disrespect to Chris Paul, but it was him running all of those boring pick and rolls too.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Don't listen to him, Lakers fans.
Byron is perfect for your team. Sure, I hated him when he was the coach of the Hornets, I hated him, but that was just because he was in the wrong system.
He would be a perfect fit for the Lakers.
I'm going to ignore the assumptions that jumped into my head when I read this comment, and give you the benefit of the doubt...
But if you want to make a contention here, you have to back it up with reasoning or evidence. I’ve been over at At The Hive, same deal applies there, you can’t just say stuff without providing a reason.
If Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, how on Earth does Adam Morrison have two rings!?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
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by Saurav A. Das on Jul 1, 2010 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Shaw sucks hire B. Scott
"I'd like to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee." Joey D
by Nintendo vs Sega on Jul 1, 2010 10:48 PM PDT reply actions
Over here at Silver Screen and Roll, you are expected to provide reasoning when making a contention.
This is your first post here, so I felt it would be fair to inform you of this expectation. If you can’t provide reasons for having a certain opinion, you won’t be allowed to share the opinion. Friendly pointer this time, if you don’t pay heed to this next time you may be regarded as a troll and warned as such.
If Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, how on Earth does Adam Morrison have two rings!?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
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by Saurav A. Das on Jul 2, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions

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