Kobe Exorcises His Phoenix-Born Demons — Speaking of Which...
Note: Unless this is the first time you've ever seen my name, you know I'm not good at 'short.' So if the extra 3 minutes really will kill you, click the jump and scroll straight to my thoughts on that controversial Game 7 in 2006 where Kobe was accused (wrongly) of pouting, quitting, tanking, etc. But if you feel like pausing a moment to bask in the greatness of Kobe Bryant before we get down to business — well, read on.
Just like that, with a six-game display of sheer dominance, Kobe Bryant gains some satisfaction. Now, when people mention Kobe and the Phoenix Suns in the same sentence, they'll be referring to this, not... that.
I began writing this piece a few days ago. It's not about this series, or about this game. It's about that series, and especially that game. You know the one I'm talking about. The only true professional blemish on Kobe's career. We'll get to that. (For that, click through, after the jump — I promise it will be worth it.) But first, I can't help a quick(ish) rabbit trail — a moment to let this soak in.
Over six games, Kobe averaged 33.7 points on only 23.3 shots per game, scoring at an absurd rate of 1.44 points per shot. At the same time, he also dished out 8.3 assists per game — all while playing within the triangle offense (as opposed to the traditional point-guard role played by Steve Nash, or an equivalent such as the point-forward role played by LeBron James, though not in this round). As if that weren't enough, he pulled down an average of 7.2 rebounds per game — despite the fact that he is a guard, not a forward, and weighs in at 6'6" and 205 lbs., not 6'8" and 270 lbs. In three straight games, he came within a breath of a triple-double. He also averaged 1.2 blocks (a solid number for a perimeter player with a recently drained knee) and a very low 2.5 turnovers per game.
Along the way, he managed to set a whole series of career marks. His Game 1 scoring line is surely one of the most efficient playoff games of his career (1.74 points per shot!). His 13 assists in Game 2 were a playoff career high, as were his 6 made three-pointers in Game 4. He also passed a couple all-time greats on the Most 30-Point Playoff Games list, and now sits tied for second with 75 (MJ's 109 will likely take 3-4 more years to surpass).
In comparison to Kobe's 33.7 points, 8.3 assists, 7.4 rebounds, and 1.2 blocks, LeBron James' conference finals per-game averages of 6.2 Hot Pockets, 2.1 bags of potato chips, 0.7 bowls of dip, and 7.4 shots of Johnny Walker Blue (to make the pain go away) — versus 19 total broken remotes and 4 (k)nicks in his hi-def TV screen — just don't quite measure up.
More important than all the numbers, of course, is the fact that in every game, Kobe did whatever was needed for his team to win, right down to the final minutes of the series-clinching Game 6, in which he scored nine points and single-handedly stopped short a looming Phoenix comeback attempt.
Victory, of course, is the most important thing. And with this victory, arguably the most dominant individual series of Bryant's career, those bad memories that used to be associated with Phoenix can be washed away, as easily as a bad taste in his mouth, and just as quickly forgotten. Kobe Bryant's story has never been about perfection; it has always been a story redemption, the hero made all the more real by his palpable humanity.
That's the problem, though, isn't it? When it comes to superstars, veritable sports gods, they don't come more human than Kobe Bryant — but this time, the humanity was ours, not his. By "this time," of course, I'm referring to that Game 7 in Phoenix in 2006; and by "ours," of course, I mean "theirs." It's the game for which Kobe was widely accused of everything from selfishly pouting to deliberately tanking, all to make a point about how indispensable his scoring is to the Lakers, and how lost they are without him. And this time, it's just not fair — because it has been Kobe's fault many times, but this time was not one of them.
Some have changed their minds about that game, and after last night, many of those who hadn't simply won't remember it anymore; but as always, some people will never see the light. That's why, as Kobe achieves redemption for a sin he never committed, I want to take one final look back at where this all started — the game which placed the order for this cold-served dish. Here's where we get back to the original intent of this piece.
2006 First Round, Lakers at Suns: Game 7
It's worth pointing out that only Kobe Bryant actually knows what happened that night, let alone what was going through his head. Though he is not in Kobe's head, I imagine Phil Jackson has a pretty good idea; but only Kobe knows. This exercise, therefore, is pure speculation — on both sides.
That said, there are a number of points we can make to help us draw an informed and reasonable conclusion. Dave McMenamin's recent ESPN article is probably the most complete look at that game yet, but even that piece is missing several key points which help us get a clearer picture of what probably happened that night. My goal here will be to build on his work, in hopes of completing the picture to give those of us who were neither in the huddle nor in Kobe's head the best possible guess at what happened that night, and why.
It is important to reiterate the point that none of us knows what was going through Kobe Bryant's head and what his motivation was for doing what he did. That is true of myself and everyone who advocates my interpretation of that game. However, it is also true of all those make the opposite claim. It is therefore the responsibility of both sides to provide reasoned support for their positions.
It is not acceptable, then, to simply state your position as though it were fact. It is foolish and irresponsible to claim that we "know" what happened that night, and even more so when that impossible claim is the beginning and end of your position. "We know because we know," is not a valid argument.
That is the problem with Andrew Sharp's ridiculous blog post on SB Nation's editorial page. Here is his entire argument:
With all due respect to the reporters involved, what's next? As Slam's Ryan Jones joked, while we're at it, are we also going to pretend Kobe never went to Colorado that summer? These are the facts: Kobe scored 23 points in the first half of that Game 7, and in the second half, as his team's season was going up in flames, he wound up taking 3 shots.
It was a telling performance as to Kobe's character. After Phil Jackson stressed ball movement at halftime, with the Lakers losing, there was Kobe throwing up his hands, saying with his play, "Here! I'll try it your way!" Whether you think he's grown since then or he'll always be that same, petulant superstar, it did happen. You can't just erase history. Right?
The problem is that Andrew doesn't bother to give us even one reason to accept his interpretation of the events. He treats his assertion that Kobe petulantly pouted and/or tanked the game as "fact" and "history," when in fact is is neither. It is entirely subjective interpretation, and he provides no reasoned support for his interpretation.
In essence, he has claimed that we know, without doubt, what Kobe did and why. When asked how we know, his response is, "Because we know!" Really, we do?
A reasonable, rational, and responsible interpretation of that games events must provide support for its interpretation. And that brings us back to Dave McMenamin, for he did just that, providing very extensive support for his position.
First, however, I encourage you to read Bill Plaschke's original article in the L.A. Times, primarily because it quotes Kobe Bryant's recent statements on that game fairly extensively. Andrew Sharp criticizes him severely for "stroking Kobe's ego," but in fact, Plaschke provides virtually no opinion on the matter. Instead, he mainly recounts Kobe's recent statements.
Then read Dave McMenamin's piece, in which he takes the position that Kobe was simply following the game plan and doing the thing most likely to result in a win — and supports his position extensively. It's an excellent piece, and a fine example of how anyone should go about addressing an issue of which they have no definitive first-hand knowledge. While not exhaustive, his article is the most comprehensive treatment of the topic that I have read to date.
Dave hits on several issues that are key to understanding Kobe's second half "disappearing act," as it has often been called. To summarize, McMenamin makes the following points:
- He watched the game and provided analysis of Kobe's involvement in the game based on what he saw from Kobe, not based on abstract extrapolation from box score stats (which is how most of those who criticize Kobe for this game approach it — they see three shots in the second half, infer from that that Kobe "refused" to shoot, and then ask why, which then leads to them forming theories of quitting or tanking). He found no basis for the idea that Kobe either quit or tanked.
- He detailed a number of plays which explain why Kobe didn't shoot (and why it was the right decision), and several other plays and key observations which show Kobe to be energized, involved, and determined, even after the game was already decided.
- He pointed out that the Lakers consistently lost to the Suns, and usually pretty thoroughly, whenever Kobe had a big scoring night; and that in their wins he had always played the facilitator — something Kobe would clearly have been aware of at this point. The only reasonable decision, then, for someone as obsessed with winning as Kobe is known to be, is to do what worked, rather than stubbornly sticking to what didn't. It may have been a long shot, but at least it was a shot.
- He pointed out that Kobe started this game the same way, playing facilitator, in which context it seems perfectly natural that he might go back to that strategy again coming out of halftime. This fact also paints the picture that it was Kobe's scoring outburst, not his "reluctance" to shoot in the second half, which was the aberration, and that in fact, the overall game plan was for Kobe to facilitate and get his teammates going.
- He pointed out that Kobe's lack of scoring had nothing to do with the Lakers losing the game, and conversely, that a huge scoring night would not have resulted in a win. In such a context, why should Kobe continue to do something that almost guaranteed failure?
- He quoted Alvin Gentry, a Phoenix assistant coach at the time, as a perspective from the other side which absolutely denied that Kobe quit or tanked. Who do you believe more — people who were there and actually involved in the game, or reporters who read box scores and asked questions after the fact?
McMenamin concludes with a very different interpretation than the popular conception that Kobe quit or tanked the game.
Based on what he saw when he re-watched the game, as well as what he knew of the history of the series as it related to Bryant's scoring, he saw that the Lakers started the game with the same game plan that had initially enabled them to take a 3-1 series lead. He then notes that in this game, Kobe's teammates couldn't seem to handle the pressure, and despite his best efforts as a distributor, they fell behind badly in the first quarter.
Kobe then took over with a burst of scoring, but his intent was probably never to completely take over the game from there on out. Rather, he recognized that his teammates needed a shot in the arm, something to energize them, and he did what he could to provide that. His and Phil Jackson's hope, no doubt, was that the team would get a boost from this, at which point they could go back to the team approach and try to get back in the game.
Coming out of the half, they did just that. Kobe returned to distributor mode, and contrary to popular opinion, there was nothing bizarre about this. He had done just that in all of the Lakers' wins, and he had done the same thing to start out this game. Unfortunately, it just didn't work. Kobe's teammates wilted under the pressure, and the team game they had used to beat Phoenix three times in the series never materialized. Meanwhile, this Lakers' team was a sub-par defensive team, and when they had defended Phoenix well, it had been the result of Kobe's teammates being energized by success on the offensive end. As that never materialized, neither did their defense, and that sealed the game. By the time it became clear that the strategy hadn't worked, it was pointless for Kobe to start gunning — the game was already long over.
This interpretation of the events of the second half of that game is much, much more reasonable than the idea that Kobe was deliberately quitting or taking the game. This interpretation aligns well with the specific observations made by McMenamin (which you and I can re-watch and see for ourselves), in which Kobe appears very involved, engaged, energized, and unwilling to give up. It is much more consistent with his well-known obsession with winning. It is consistent with what any reasonable person would do when faced with the fact that an individual scoring outburst had never been successful, while the facilitator approach had worked quite well. Simply put, it fits the facts much better.
Dave McMenamin's position is well-articulated, well-reasoned, and extensively supported. As such, it is the best attempt to understand Kobe's role in this game that I have read to date. Nonetheless, there are further points that we can make which add to this discussion.
Consider the following:
- The premise that Kobe deliberately quit playing is based on the idea that he was trying to prove a point. Specifically, those who take this interpretation claim he was sending the Lakers a message, making the point that when the Lakers win, it's because of him, and that his supporting cast is incapable of doing anything on their own and needs to be replaced. The problem with that scenario is that it doesn't actually work. In order for Kobe to make that point, he would need to show that the Lakers won when he scored, and they lost badly when he didn't. However, in this game they were beaten just as badly in the first half as they were in the second, even though he was on pace for 45 to 50 points at halftime. Furthermore, whenever he had put up a lot of points against the Suns, including the last couple of games, the Lakers had lost. Had Kobe even been inclined to try and make that point at this time, he would have realized at halftime that the fact that the Lakers were losing even when he was scoring like crazy would have undermined his point. Only an idiot would try to make a point with a game that didn't actually support his point.
- Every single source with first hand knowledge of the situation — that is, everyone who was actuallyinvolved in the game — has agreed with Kobe's explanation of the game. This isn't revisionist history; Kobe's recent statements regarding this game are the exact same statements he made immediately following the game. McMenamin quoted Alvin Gentry, who also rejected the idea outright. The AP recap quotes Phil Jackson as saying, "We wanted to get back in the game so we were running things through other guys. Nash was a little bit banged up and we were trying to use [our] inside out game." Meanwhile, according to ESPN's Marc Stein in his Daily Dime recap, "Jackson and Bryant both insisted afterward that they were in accord with the second-half approach -- that another 50-point game, as Kobe submitted in Game 6, was not going to save them here." So far, I have yet to see a single NBA source — let alone any player, coach, or team staff member — even hint at validating the idea that Kobe quit or tanked that game. They all reject it outright.
- Let's assume, for a moment, that you're Kobe Bryant, and maybe you do want to boycott a game, or part of a game, to make a point. When would you do it? I guarantee you that not a one of you out there would choose to do it in a Game 7 — that is, a game that is winnable, and one that, if he wins it, enables him to keep playing into the second round. If you really want to make that kind of statement, you do it in one of three contexts: (1) in the regular season; (2) early on in a playoff series, so that once your point is made, you still have time to come back and try to win; or (3) in a playoff series that is clearly not winnable, or even close. To think that he would choose to make his point at that moment is the one of the most illogical, irrational, and completely laughable ideas I've heard.
- A related point: What does Kobe have to gain from doing something like that, at that precise moment, to make such a point? Not nearly as much as he has to gain by winning the series. Had the Lakers pulled it off, it would have been one of the greatest playoff upsets ever — and Kobe's playoff reputation would have gotten a huge boost, as would his image and his legacy. The lore of Kobe would have grown dramatically, and his efforts to rehab his image would have been helped immensely. Kobe knew this well — nobody understood what winning can do for a player's legend, legacy, and reputation better than Kobe. Simply put, he had exponentially more to gain from winning than he did from losing. He was so close to winning that series, he could taste it, and he knew good and well how much he would benefit from it. Why, on the verge of gaining so much, would he trade it in for a cheap trick that wouldn't even successfully make his supposed point?
- It is completely inconsistent with everything we know about Kobe. Let's be clear about this: Kobe Bryant is far from a perfect person. He has flaws, and when he was younger, they were major flaws. But there are at least a few things we know for certain about him. One of them is that he absolutely hates to lose, and he is positively addicted to winning. He is the most competitive person we have seen since Michael Jordan. Taken alone, that's not enough to say that ulterior motives didn't overpower his competitive drive — or that his desire to be competitive in future years didn't take precedence over his desire to compete in one particular game. But when viewed alongside all the other things mentioned above, and considered in the context of being on the verge of a win that would have been monumental for him, his obsession with winning must be seen as another in a list of reasons for which this hypothesis simply makes no sense.
- This is far from the only time that Kobe has gone a significant stretch without scoring. Even in these playoffs, he has deferred to his teammates while refraining from shooting for very long stretches (particularly at the beginnings of games) on at least a couple different occasions. For that matter, he did so several times in the same series against Phoenix. He did it again to start the 2007-08 season, before being asked to take over in January, and again to start the 2008-09 season. In none of these instances has there ever been the slightest suggestion that Kobe is quitting, pouting, or tanking — instead, everyone recognizes easily enough that it is a deliberate strategy to get his teammates going, and one that he employs with the intent to win games. Why was this game different? Probably because it didn't result in a win; probably because it was one of the few times that it simply hasn't worked, at all. Probably because the Lakers lost the series in that game. But the reality is that the fact of Kobe taking very few shots on certain occasions does not in any way suggest that he is not trying to win the game.
Only Kobe Bryant himself knows with certainty what was going on in his head, and what his motivation was for playing in the manner that he did in that 2006 Game 7. Phil Jackson probably has a pretty good idea, because he knows what his game plan was, so he would know if what Kobe did was in line with that game plan or not. Fortunately, it helps that he has told us specifically that — that Kobe's play throughout the game, including in the second half, was exactly in line with his game plan.
Beyond that, the best we can do is to use all the information at our disposal to make a well-reasoned and sensible, but ultimately subjective and speculative, evaluation. To that end, however, I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why Kobe's play in the second half of Game 7 back in 2006 amounted to quitting, pouting, or tanking. In fact, every argument upholding that position base their positions solely upon the number of shots Kobe took in the second half, and a vague and untenable position that we "just know" (we do, really?) and that it was obvious and undeniable (based on what?). Meanwhile, they ignore a vast array of context, evidence, testimony, and indicators that support the exact opposite conclusion.
In essence, people like Dave McMenamin make a well-reasoned and thoroughly supported case for their position, and guys like Andrew Sharp respond with, "Nuh-uh!"
The premise that Kobe was sticking to a game plan that involved getting his teammates going from the start; that he and Phil Jackson went away from that temporarily in the second quarter to try and energize the team; and that they returned to it to start the second half, is more consistent with Kobe's character, with the strategy displayed in previous games of the same series, with the history of the matchup throughout the year, and with Kobe's body language during the game and his aggressiveness even after it was already decided. It is supported by Kobe's own statements, which have been consistent from his post-game presser to his most recent comments. It is supported by Phil Jackson's statements regarding both Kobe's play and Phil's game plan. It is supported by every other player or coach who was involved in that game that has commented on it.
The premise that Kobe was quitting, pouting, or tanking the game, on the other hand, is supported only by the fact that he took only three shots in the second half — yet even that has been more than adequately explained, and the explanation is one that Kobe's coach insistently confirmed. Meanwhile, such a premise makes absolutely zero sense from just about every angle. It would not have been even remotely beneficial to Kobe, as even the most stubborn and narcissistic of people would have recognized. Meanwhile, winning would have been immensely beneficial to Kobe. Further, it makes absolutely zero sense that, if Kobe were inclined to protest in this way, he would do it at that moment, of all possible moments.
The reality is that there is really nothing that supports the idea that Kobe quit, pouted, or tanked that game. Nonetheless, it is likely that his critics will refuse to recognize all the indicators that confirm Bryant's explanation, continuing to insist that we know without a doubt that he intentionally took himself out of the game in the second half to make a point, as though it is indisputable fact, a matter of objective history.
I would not be surprised if these are the same people who insist that Kobe Bryant was a selfish basketball player throughout the 2005-06 season, even though Kobe explained that Phil Jackson and the coaching staff had come to him and asked him to shoulder the scoring load while his young teammates learned the triangle offense. Phil Jackson and triangle architect Tex Winter both confirmed that, indeed, Bryant was dominating the offense at their specific request that year — and neither Jackson nor Winter has ever been remotely hesitant to criticize Kobe.
The fact is that throughout the 2005-06 season, and at every moment in that 7-game first round series against the Suns, Kobe did nothing more or less than to stick to his coach's game plan. That was true when he was "hogging the ball" and dominating the offense throughout the year. That was true when the Lakers surprisingly broke out the team approach to go up 3-1 in the series. The next year, it was true when the Lakers went on a huge losing streak, and yet Kobe stuck to the team-centric game plan until Jackson and Winter again came and asked him to shoulder the offensive load, resulting in his streak of four 50-point games. And it was true in the second half of Game 7, even if it didn't work.
A final concluding thought: As Plaschke mentioned, this whole issue is news again because the Lakers are once again playing the Suns in the playoffs; it is topical again because of LeBron James' recent "issues" in Games 5 and 6 of the Cavs-Celtics series, which ended with LeBron and the Cavs going fishing.
I will say only this: Whether or not you believe that LeBron tanked, or didn't try, or didn't care, or didn't lead, or whatever — and I will not say either way, because this post is not the place for that — comparing it to Kobe's Game 7 in Phoenix, in 2006, does not work. Kobe has failed in the playoffs (as I contend every player has at some point), and he has been beaten (ditto); but he has never tanked a game in the playoffs, never deliberately taken himself out, never not cared, and never not showed up. Especially not such a critically important playoff game. Whether you think LeBron has or not is for you to decide.
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Beautiful post
I’m kinda jealous of LeBron’s Hot Pocket average though. I haven’t had one of those things in ages
Great, great post.
More important than all the numbers, of course, is the fact that in every game, Kobe did whatever was needed for his team to win, right down to the final minutes of the series-clinching Game 6, in which he scored nine points and single-handedly stopped short a looming Phoenix comeback attempt.
I think we’re going to see an even deadlier Kobe against the Celtics, who just like against the Suns will stop at nothing to exorcise his demons from 2 years ago.
great post. btw i thought you left SS&R?
Just an ordinary 9th grade Lakers fan.
C.A. took over
I still come around from time to time.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
holy crap....
took me like 2 minutes to just scroll to the comments…
now ill go back and read the whole thing :]
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
lol
get used to it. This is how he writes.
@Josh – another great one. Loved lebron’s conference final stats, lolled at it.
But I had my best time reading your drubbing of Andrew Sharp (actually read it from Gil’s shout out days ago). Have to ask though: is this a “when you’ve got the time” thing, or are you back posting, as in regularly?
"E-Coaches are heavy in here tonight! Take E-Sasha and put him on the E-bench on your fantasy league, that’ll show him!" - Jevon O
It's a "when I've got time thing" unfortunately
I may try and find a way to have a little more time than I have had in the last few months, but probably not a lot.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
In all seriousness though
Way to blast Andrew Sharp on his piece about KB24. Picked him apart with logic and shut his ass up to be frank.
The comments were a great read. I sure enjoyed it, as did fellow SS&R readers who I saw there. :)
Queensbridge.
Josh
I better see you around in December next season, otherwise I’m going to have no choice but to call you Josh “Western Conference Finals Or Better Only” Tucker :)
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Haha.
I can’t guarantee I’ll be around a lot, but I’m going to try to be around some. I’m hoping to find a happy medium between the all and the nothing.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Excellent article, per the usual, Josh.
I read that Bill Plaschke article and thought he was indirectly arguing tanking argument despite the quotes from Kobe. I thought Plaschke questioned every quote that Kobe provided.
Andrew Sharp’s article was ridiculous. Just. Wow.
After watching Kobe play ever since he came into this league, this past series is the best I have EVER seen him play in the playoffs. Stats alone, averaging those kind of assist numbers, in the triangle? Rebounding like that as a SG, on a team with two 7-footers and LO? Absolutely astonishing. And after a season where everyone thought age and wear were finally taking their toll.
2004 series?
Very nice write-up.
Any of you friends have any insights on 2004 Detroit series?Obviously it was a failure and Kobe was declared the scapegoat.But as far as I remember Malone’s injury was the turning point,
Yes, it was
And they pick-n-rolled Shaq to death. They knew it was his weakness, they exploited it.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
exactly. Right when Phil was starting to blend Pick and roll into the triangle
…to take advantage of Malone’s skills, Karl goes down. It seems that “fantasy league” team, with Payton and Malone, gets ragged on a lot by Laker fans (myself included), but it was oh-so-close to putting up a banner. I think if Malone had been healthy, they would have pulled it out, no matter how sucky Payton was that year….
Really great stuff
this article echoes the old www.respectkobe.com stuff that I absolutely LOVED reading when I first started seriously getting into basketball analysis. You put reassuring, convincing, and heartfelt words into the minds of Lakers and Kobe fans everywhere.
To anyone reading this article that doesn’t agree with it – I challenge you to do even half as good a job proving your point as JT did here.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Can't wait till you guys get to here WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE WE GOT FUN AND GAMES!!!
“You in the Jungle baby!”
by Ol' Green Boyz on May 31, 2010 10:51 AM PDT reply actions
You can have your fun and games....
We will take our wins and trophies. See you soon.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
I can't wait 'till we HEAR it, either. It's a great song.
If you knew anything about Guns N’ Roses, ‘80s Heavy Metal, or music in general, you’d know that the jungle Axl Rose is referring to in “Welcome to the Jungle” is… are you ready for this, because I promise you’re going to be shocked… Los Angeles. And where do the Lakers play? That’s right, you guessed it! They play in Los Angeles.
So, HEARing that song isn’t going to be intimidating at all. In fact, it should put them right at ease, since it is, essentially, saying to the Lakers, “Welcome home!” And if there’s one thing the Lakers are good at, it’s protecting their home.
"We're Rock Stars... We're Lakers."
-- Lamar Odom
"We had the skull-and-crossbones on our helmets, the black jerseys, and the whole bit... and we lived it."
-- George "The HitMan" Atkinson
"WE STOMPED YOU OUT!"
-- Michael Strahan
by 5_Giant_Raider_Clipper_Laker_13 on May 31, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Really I thought it was about the life of Drug Addicts thats funny because that...
Would match the theme of the rest of GNR Album-“Appetite For Destruction”…but what do I know…see you soon anyways…
by Ol' Green Boyz on May 31, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
“Welcome to the Jungle” was the first song co-written by lead vocalist Axl Rose and lead guitarist Slash. According to an interview published by Hit Parader in March 1988, “[Axl] wrote the words in Seattle. It’s a big city, but at the same time it’s still a small city compared to Los Angeles and the things that you’re gonna learn. It seemed a lot more rural up there. [Axl] just wrote how it looked to [him]. If someone comes to town and they want to find something, they can find whatever they want.”6 Hit Parader also quoted rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin as summarising the song as “about Hollywood streets; true to life.”7
So it’s about L.A. — or, more specifically, Hollywood — and how it is a jungle compared to other cities (in this case, specifically Seattle).
Point , 5_Giant_Raider_Clipper_Laker_13.
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anybody read that piece on nba Fanhouse about Kobe needing to top Lebron
when Kobe is going to his seventh finals and Lebron sitting at home ???
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/05/30/its-time-for-kobe-bryant-to-top-lebron-james/
I think the point he's making in a prolix way
Is that getting to the Finals is nothing. For the author to favorably compare Kobe to Lebron, Kobe must do what Lebron could not and lead his team to vanquish the Celtics.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 31, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude, what a moron
Kobe chasing Lebron……yeah whatever.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Haven't read it (yet)...
But I would guess the point he’s trying to make is that if Kobe and the Lakers lose to the Celtics, it lets LeBron off the hook for doing the same in the second round. So Kobe needs to beat the Celtics to drive home LeBron’s loss, and solidify the idea that he is still the best player in the league.
The key distinction, at least if I were making that case, would be that it isn’t about legacy. Right now, Kobe doesn’t need to do a damn thing to top LeBron, legacy-wise. This is about the present, the right now. It’s about still being considered the best player in the world right now.
The way LeBron went out, combined with the way Kobe is playing right now, has the whole internet doing an about face in unison. Everyone is back to saying Kobe is still the best in the world, and most of them are back to saying it’s not close yet. But that probably gets reversed if Kobe also loses to the Celtics, because then it lets LeBron off the hook for that loss, and it opens the door for the LeBron-ites (read: the media) to claim that Kobe simply had easier opponents in the first three rounds.
So — and again, this is what it would be if I were making that point, and to an extent I do agree — the point is that if Kobe wants to maintain his current status as being considered the still the best in the world, right now, then he needs to beat the Celtics. That way, the current about face of public opinion on the matter, which is currently favoring him, will be solidified, and his supporters will be able to say, “See, Kobe did what LeBron couldn’t.”
On the other hand, if this guy is arguing that Kobe needs to beat the Celtics for the sake of his legacy being greater than LeBron’s (I’ll read it in a bit, I swear), then that’s just stoopid.
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we can talk about Shaq and LeBron
…but I think the only legacy Kobe cares about other than his own is Michael Jordan’s. I think his place in Laker history is assured, although still unfinished, and on its own merits, without Shaquille. The LeBron stuff must be amusing to Kobe, as LBJ hasn’t yet figured out what KB24 already knows. In as much as he cares, as an afterthought to hanging banners, it’s his legacy vis-a-vis MJ that truly stokes Kobe’s motor; that’s the only source of “style points” the Mamba be chasing…
Yeah, quite right.
That would be the obvious rebuttal to the argument I outlined above. What I said above is basically, “Why Kobe must beat the Celtics if he still wants to be considered the best player in the world right now.” What you said above would be the rebuttal, which is basically, “Why Kobe could care less about who is seen as the best in the world right now.” He’s not going for how he’s viewed in the moment; he’s going for how he’s viewed by history.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I hear ya.
I understand your “right now” point and while a loss to the Celtics wouldn’t let LeBron off the hook if you ask me, it would slam the door shut with authority (not that door is open to begin with). As far as the opponents go you can’t really do anything about who you face in the playoffs. This if a NBA Finals that seems to be bigger than just a series to determine the champs.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
I'm totally on board with this (and it's great to have Josh in full force for the Finals!)
However, there is one little tidbit about that game that I had not heard before this week, which changes my view on it ever so slightly.
It’s something Kobe said during the game, and it comes from a highly credible source, SI’s Jack McCallum (famous for his inside-the-locker-room book about the 05-06 Suns, Seven Seconds or Less):
…at one point said, as he strolled by the Suns bench, “They expect me to play with him at center?” (He was talking about Kwame Brown.)
It definitely shows he was frustrated. But being frustrated and quitting are completely different things.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
you weren't aware that Kobe was frustrated?
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
It was just a quote I had not heard from that game
And citation: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jack_mccallum/05/28/kobe/index.html
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 31, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
how'd this change your opinion?
curious
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
There is a little bit of hopelessness
He may have been running the offense, and hoping for help from his team, but he didn’t really believe it would happen (for good reason).
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 31, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Quite right
If he said it in the first half — which seems just as likely, because it’s the kind of thing Kobe might say while being forced to drop 18 points in a quarter because his team crumbled in the previous period — then it changes how it’s interpreted.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The article implies he said it after he "stopped shooting"
Either way, he was going a different route, because the one he had taken in the first half was a dead end.
Turns out the other way was a dead end, too.
It just changes my view because I think Kobe acknowledges the odds of winning that game are looong, instead of his normal mentality of “game’s not over” … but again, that’s not quitting, that’s trying something different in desperation.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 31, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Eh, I think other things indicate just as strongly
that he still has that “I’m not stopping until the 48-minute buzzer sounds” mentality.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
There's a difference between believing it would happen...
…and believing it’s your best shot.
By halftime, the Lakers beating the Suns via ANY means was an extremely long shot, at best. But this was the best shot. It wasn’t a good shot, but it was the best one.
I believe Kobe understood that. I believe he knew his chances weren’t very good. But I also think it’s pretty clear that he took the one shot he had, and tried while he could to do something with his long odds.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I read that article too, and I agree with Kobe.
Those Matt Barnes quotes were hilarious.
best quote ever!
Earlier this season Orlando’s feisty Matt Barnes was standing close to Bryant when he feigned throwing a ball at Bryant’s face. Bryant never even flinched. “That scared me a little,” Barnes said later. “I mean, that wasn’t even human.”
ROFL
Awesome.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy crap.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
You mean you never saw that before?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
No, I have. It's just been a good while.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Will read it as soon as I wake-up. Need sleep.
Goodnoon
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
Fantastic Article
Really, really awesome. I read the McMenamin piece earlier and thought it was refreshing to see a journalist do some research and present that research in a very straightforward and convincing manner. I love how you’ve built on his evidence and added some of your own analysis. Excellent job.
I wanted to bring one thing up and that is that the whole quitting/tanking line seems to me to be the result of the media echo chamber. What I mean is that I would be interested to read up on the history of that argument—perhaps who came up with that interpretation of events first and how it spread from there to become this sort of unchallenged fact. I also suspect that writers and journalists now view that series and that game, specifically, through the prism of the trade demands and frustration that Kobe displayed during the summer of 2007. They probably feel that that tirade validates their beliefs about that Game 7, even though the significant difference is one took place on the court and one off. Anyway, again, great article.
"Well then, no time to lose. I'm the Doctor. Do everything I tell you, don't ask stupid questions, and don't wander off." - The Doctor
by humdrumodyssey on May 31, 2010 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
And a year later...
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, exactly
Anyway, I think part of the reason some people hold that view of Kobe is because it makes a great narrative, as if that game is a link in a long chain of events that led up to that summer. Perhaps it was, but not in the way that the camp who believes he quit/tanked want to believe.
"Well then, no time to lose. I'm the Doctor. Do everything I tell you, don't ask stupid questions, and don't wander off." - The Doctor
by humdrumodyssey on May 31, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting article on Rondo [granted I think Bleacher Report has very little credibility]
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
I will not even look at Bleacher Report articles
That is how bad their reputation is in my eyes.
For you, I may read this. I don’t know.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 31, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Completely understand either way, Gil, I feel them to be very subjective and drippy,
bad writing, I know.
I do believe the principle of the article rings true, even if it is the bleacher report.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Let the writing stand on its own merits
Some people said that about me when I started Respect Kobe, based purely on the name of the site.
Bleacher Report is terrible, terrible, terrible. It’s a travesty and a sham and a mockery — yes, a traveshamockery — that they’re included in Google News. HOWEVER, at the end of the day Bleacher Report is simply a medium via which ordinary people can sign up to write. While it is this very fact that results in the most illiterate “writing” (using the term loosely) I’ve ever seen, rampant plagiarism and steeling, and a whole host of other very frustrating problems, it it also occasionally the case that this very same fact produces a rare gem — simply because someone out there with good sense and writing ability had something they wanted to say, and Bleacher Report provided the venue.
I’d say Bleacher Report is so bad that you should pretty much always expect everything from there to be either (a) the worst shit you’ve ever read, or (b) stolen. That said, don’t close yourself off to the possibility of being pleasantly surprised by someone who had something valuable to contribute, and simply doesn’t know that Bleacher Report isn’t the best place to do so.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh there can be a good article there, no doubt
There is just no quality control, or even decency control, it seems. But that is their selling point, I guess – anyone can write what they want, with a very long leash on whether the content is accurate or offensive.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 31, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep
It results in mostly horrible crap, but every now and then someone ventures in who sees it as his way to post something that maybe someone will read, and doesn’t know BR well enough to realize there are other options for people with intelligence and self-respect.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I've had pieces of mine show up on Bleacher report...
without even submitting them… and twice under a different author’s name.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
I've stopped linking them.
Readers complain about their posts too much. They have 1 or 2 writers. Everything else is posted by members, but too often it gets confused for real writing. It’s fan posting.
If I ever link them, it’s only an official BR writer, and I’ll read it all first.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Mr. Tucker
After all this looong alibi for kobe tanking. You have the audicity to call bleacher report “a medium where ordinary people sign up to write” What in the world do you call yourself? Are you the high preist of evrything holy? I’ve never tryed to read as much crap as you just put out. Wake up the man quit!
Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!
Tell us why Kobe quit. What reasons do you have that suggest he quit?
As for the whole “what do you call yourself” stuff, SB Nation does have quality control while Bleacher Report doesn’t.
Funny....
You didn’t refute any of it.
Must have been an oversight…..
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
It is not acceptable, then, to simply state your position as though it were fact. It is foolish and irresponsible to claim that we “know” what happened that night, and even more so when that impossible claim is the beginning and end of your position. “We know because we know,” is not a valid argument.
When asked how we know, his response is, “Because we know!” Really, we do?
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Bleacher report is trash
I used to go there as a source but some of the articles are so poorly written and lack credibility.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
Most of it is fan posting.
Anyone can join and write an article. They don’t do a good enough job making sure official contributor article are differentiated from member articles.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
'steeling'? C'mon, Founder Emeritus!
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 3, 2010 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions
FLAWLESS
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
Pwned
That is the problem with Andrew Sharp’s ridiculous blog post on SB Nation’s editorial page. Here is his entire argument:
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
www.mybeatshop.com/czheckproductions
Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.
maybe we need an SS&R poll:
Do you think LeBron tanked against Boston?
a. yes
b. no
c. The New Jersey Nets
Tanked means intentionally losing
I just don’t think he was focused enough on winning.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Not at all
One implies intent, the other simply implies inability.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed, but in this context,
…the discussion of two superstars, being “focused enough on winning” or not “really trying hard” means denying your responsibility to your team, especially when they are looking to you for more than just points or rebs. In a playoff series, not being prepared or motivated is inexplicable, especially if you want your name to be in the “best player in the world” conversation… and, for the record, I don’t think he went into the game with the mindset of “I’m tanking this baby,” but his performance was a bomb nonetheless, and at the level of playoff basketball, constituted a huge failure, and one that LBJ didn’t seem (again “seem”—my interpretation) to be too busted up about…
But again, we're talking about inability, not taking.
Tanking implies deliberately losing. It implies wanting to lose.
What you’re talking about involves not having the ability to lead in the necessary way, to generate the needed focus, etc. That LeBron failed is not up for debate. That he tanked is, and seems highly unlikely. I can only think of one possible explanation for why he would do such a thing, and it seems pretty far fetched.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
ROFL
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I do NOT think he tanked
I do think he wasn’t focused on the game. And I think he didn’t really try hard. But tanked implies intentionally losing. I don’t think he did that. I just think he either didn’t have what it took to stay mentally involved, let alone dialed in, or he just stopped trying, maybe even gave up. I tend to lean slightly toward the latter, but I’m not sure the former is any better. But I’ll be the first to admit it’s all speculation.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
tbh
I think he was just thinking about D.West and his momma in the sack the whole time.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
I heard a rumor like that...
….we all know that anything can fly and go viral, truth-y or not, but THAt one, man, if that one was legit……ouch……
I think Gloria James and Delonte West, could both do better
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait, are we being serious, here?
Is that a REAL rumor???
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a rumor of the most absurd quality, I can't see any validity into the claim,
then again, Charles Barkley doesn’t have to take an intelligence test to be on t.v., end of days, Josh, end of days.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, Chuck isn't on TV for his IQ
He’s on TV because he’s freaking awesome.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't watch another man, eat chicken feet, and say it's awesome,
You’re great, Josh, we can agree to disagree.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
it was a internet rumor
made to try to explain for lebron’s poor performance, but I dont think it had any credibility.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
I have it on very good authority that it is not a rumor, but the truth.
While I think it’s highly inappropriate in that LeBron’s mom is having a relationship with her son’s teammate, I don’t think it’s gross. You have to keep in the mind that there’s only a 15-year age difference between the two, the same as Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore.
The real question now is whether or not Delonte will still be with Cleveland next season, assuming he doesn’t end up in jail this summer after his trial for gun possession.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
or another real question might be
did Mrs. James and the Delonte Wests consider even think about the possible effects their (supposed) hook up might have on their King? What an odd situation for a 25-year old person to find himself in, at the time when he is asked to be more than just the best athlete on the court. Damn near Shakespearean…or maybe I’ve been in Ashland, OR too long…
I'm still not buying it
Show me a credible source reporting it, first.
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Not a news report, firsthand from someone inside the Cavs organization.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
First hand... from them to you?
Who actually received the report from said inside source?
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He hit two three's pulled them within 4, 78-74, being competitive and goin' through the motions
were far apart in that game, he didn’t tank, I don’t think he gave up, his team did, HIS TEAMMATES gave up.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
when you see Shaq hittin FT's, blocking shots and actually boxing out
…I don’t think they quit: I think they were so used to LBJ savin’ their bacon that when he wasn’t gonna do it, they kinda panicked….except for the Big Daddy, who
’d been there before, of course.
two word answer to the team quitting: Mo Williams
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
yea.... no.
Mo Williams had an arguably better game than Lebron, FYI. At the LEAST, they were equal.
How on earth can you conclude that about Mo?
Mo Williams and Hickson have a greater synergy in team success than Shaq
for obvious reasons. Mo williams let James down, he let the flow of the game get away, I can deal with a guy who can’t play D, but putting up 20 points in the first half, and then only 2 points in the second half.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe you're referring to Game 6
Game 5 is the bigger issue here. I certainly believe his teammates lost heart in Game 6, but I believe it is because they had just watched him bail on them in Game 5. They’d just watched their leader not seem to care about playing, about losing. Yes, his teammates failed in Game 6 (though the last few minutes of that game, it was actually within reach, and LeBron was terrible and seemed disengaged there, too). But it is because of LeBron’s Game 5.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
where's wave when you need him
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on May 31, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I couldn't believe what I was watching at the end of the game.
Brown is yelling for them to foul, and they COMPLETELY ignored him. I have never seen that happen before. Crazy stuff.
Those 2 threes
were 1. Terrible shots when at any time during that game he could have been driving in and getting 3 the easy way.
2. A bit of saving face in that game as well. He was getting his rebs and his asts. But he was also turning the ball over incessantly. He also wasn’t scoring how he normally does, settling for lazy fall-away pull-up jumpers with little to no attempt to even try to break down the defense. I don’t think he tanked, but I am sure as hell not gonna let you make an argument that his team failed when Mo Williams was actually trying in game 6. The only reason they were even in the game was because of him since Lebron refused to cut, refused to pick, refused to roll, and refused to anything other than get the ball in the rotation and then shoot or drive around pierce to kick it out instead of finishing. No. No. No. You’re not making any excuses about his teammates on this one. And last I checked HE was one of the people that didn’t foul in the last two minutes of the game either. That whole team quit at the end and all I can do is feel bad for their fans who watched their team literally ignore Mike Brown and not foul when they were down by less than 10. He didn’t give up. pshh. I guess the statistics must show he didn’t have anything to do with them losing even though he botched one of their final possessions by throwing it out of bounds and one before that where he dribbled off his foot. His team gave up. Oh please, I’m tired of the old teammates excuse.
D. Totally distracted cuz his bipolar teammate was banging his mom
I can't tell if Phil Jackson is playing 3D chess and is 10 moves ahead of us or if he's just goddamn senile...
no, its a team game and they sucked alltogether
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Bruce Bowen [among other pundits] is not giving Artest his due, again
Believe it or not, before Ron Artest was a Laker and after he became a defensive gem, he developed an offensive game in Indiana, Sacramento, Houston [bench player for half a season]. That didn’t go away over night, he just had 25 points in the close out game. I do believe that Ron Artest will make Pierce or Allen or who ever work just as hard, am I wrong here or does it seem that Artest is the X factor again.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:36 PM PDT reply actions
him and our bench vs their bench
artest is deffinently gonna make pierce work but hopefully pierce decides to man up and play like a man and not flop like a lil bitch ( which prolly wont happen )
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on May 31, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
i just hope whistles are evenly distributed
…woulod hate to see Ron in foul trouble before the game starts in Boston, and Pierce’s smug mug strolling to the line, time after time. If they allow Artest to body Pierce, I like our man Mr. Crazy Pills….
Yeah.
I’ll admit to being slightly worried about Paul Pierce getting to the line. He gets a lot of BS calls.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I expect a lot of charges in the series, hmm, fish, walton, artest, c'mon Kobe, take a charge
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
led by Mr. Intangibles of course
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on May 31, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
If Fish can get around the screens, it makes defending Rondo easier,
I can live with his jump shots
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
me to
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
he's got a ways to go before passing Danny Ainge,
but Pierce is working his way up the “Most Annoying Celtics” list…
Artest won't get left open, I don't think, Doc has a great defensive scheme
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
you think they'll stay with him on the perimeter?
that would be interesting. Also would assume that they aren’t going to give help on Kobe. They rarely, if ever, double-team inside, so that could be something to watch: if everybody in green stays home, can Mamba go ballistic 1-on-1?
Yea, at some point they'll look to double, but Fish and Artest can knock them down
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Boston's big advantage last time was the three, they miss the following:
Eddie House, James Posey, P.J. Brown, Leon Powe
Sheed is going to get his, I hope it’s more in the post than the 3 point line, he killed the Lakers in that Piston series.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
he's field goal percentages have been increasing every series
look out boston!
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on May 31, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
yea, Gasol struggled the last couple of games, Ron can lift the offense, if necessay
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
yea i hope he loses his skirt by game 1
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on May 31, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
after his performance vs. The Machine
i think we need to make Goran Dragic an honorary Celtic.
He’s got the Pierce lay-down down pat, and he’s supremely annoying (but he’s no Ainge, either).
against durant who is another one who gets you to commit silly bs fouls he was ok and was only in foul trouble in game 1
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
by njzfinest5013 on May 31, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I actually think Durant fully earns his fouls. I disagreed with Phil Jackson on that one. But the fact that he is so good at it, and Ron didn’t have a problem staying out of foul trouble, is a good sign.
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Durant uses some of the Reggie Miller tactics
The sweep through when your hands are low and near his body. The leg kick out. He also attempts some of Kobe’s maneuvers for fouls but they don’t usually work on Ron because even Kobe has a hard time getting Ron to jump. He’s the basic shooter foul mentality. I am in no way saying its only him that does it, but I’m just saying I never liked that those calls are made.
pierce got called for that offensive foul on artest, in boston,
I hope Ron pulls down his shorts, again, hahahaha
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
funny thing is after Lebron got out in second round this year
was the first time i heard that Kobe “tanked” the Game 7 vs Suns.. damn haters can go to extreme just to bring the two to same level…
Great post Josh, welcome back
Hopefully this means you will be helping C.A and Dex (well what’s left of him after that brass knuckle beating he received from Chris) during the finals.
I also hope you get to another piece like the one you did for NBA.com during the finals last year after D-Fish hit those clutch 3’s to rip the heart out of Orlando. That has to be one of my favorite articles ever.
NBA has redone their site, and they're all but lost...
They’re actually in there somewhere, but extremely hard to find. I found them once… but don’t appear to have saved them. Smart of me. Now I’ll have to spend hours trying to find them again. Damn.
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Oh hey, I think that's the one he's referring to.
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i remember reading that,very nice work
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
www.mybeatshop.com/czheckproductions
Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.
or this one...
http://www.nba.com/2009/playoffs2009/06/05/sbnation.game1/
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
So mannnnyyyy posters?!
Have you people been under a rock this season? I don’t recognize half the people in here, and I’ve been lurking for about a year now. :)
Lakernation!
Queensbridge.
Nah...
There are a lot of us who read the articles all season long, just don’t comment very often. I’ve been following the Lakers for a long time though and Josh is still one of my favorite Lakers bloggers. He just sees things the same way I do. :) So some of us come out of the woodwork to comment on his posts. If only he would deign to grace us with his presence more often…
off topic but
GREAT pitching matchup with Ubaldo and Lincecum goin on as we speak.
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
Wonderful article about Ron Artest
The most telling portion:
Just as Artest feels ashamed in Bird’s presence, Bird has a long memory, too. Speaking about Artest’s strange marriage with the Lakers, Bird has told confidants this season that he’s never felt more betrayed by a player than he was by Artest — and that he’s never misjudged a player that badly, too. And if you know Bird, you know that eats away at him to this day.
by rickfox on May 31, 2010 1:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
A touching story … Ron really opens up there.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
i love artest
ever since he’s come to the lakers ive loved watching him play good or bad
i remember in the houston series last yr and how tenacious he was with kobe and im so glad we didnt have to go through that again
im soo happy for him being a laker i REALLY REALLY REALLY look forward to the ring ceremony next year and cant wait to see him get his ring
"When I dunk, I put something on it. I want the ball to hit the floor before I do."
-Darryl Dawkins
Great write up Josh.
Thanks for coming back!
As much as it pains me to acknowledge this, I have to say that Kobe gave up on the game. After rewatching the second half of the game on youtube, I noticed that he wasn’t just passing up shots. He was standing around with his hands down. Every time he had the ball he didn’t make a move to the basket and dish it out, like a true facilitator should, he just stood there and passed it up.
You’re right that whenever Kobe played facilitator in the series, the Lakers won. When he scored 50, they lost. But there’s a difference between being a facilitator and just standing around not taking part in the offense.
If you watch game 2, 3, 4 of the series, you’ll notice that Kobe facilitated by handling the ball, dribbling inside, or at least demanding coverage, and then dishing to his teammates so they could score. If he’s really trying to get his teammates involved, he shouldn’t just be standing around with his arms down (which is what he did in game 7), he should be dribbling and demanding double-teams and then dishing it out.
Observe:
Game 2: 5 assists
Game 3: 7 assists
Game 4: 8 assists.
Game 7: 1 assist
The Kobe in game 7, didn’t just pass up on shots. If you rewatch that second half you’ll see that he stood around and wanted no part in the offense. He didn’t get in position to fight for rebounds, nor did he facilitate in the right way. Every time the ball came to him he just gave it up without making anything happen.
by laker on May 31, 2010 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
There's actually another possibility here
Note what McMenamin points out, regarding Phil Jackson calling iso plays for Lamar Odom. I don’t think the game plan was just for Kobe to dominate the ball and dish. I think the plan was for teammates to be even more involved than that. Seen in context of how active Kobe seemed coming out of timeouts, and his efforts late in the game (the two straight charges, etc.), both of which McMenamin also notes, that’s how I interpret it.
I’ve seen Kobe come up with 1 or 2 assist nights when he wasn’t quitting, nor ball hogging. Sometimes it just happens that way. Notice he had only one assist in the entire game — but no one says he quit in the first quarter. What’s different? Again, looking at the whole picture, and listening to the words of everyone who was actually involved, the idea that he was just sticking to Phil Jackson’s halftime game plan (the same game plan they started the game with) makes much more sense to me.
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Think of it this way
Look at today’s team. When they’re REALLY rolling is when the others are playing off each other. Lamar and Gasol playing the 2-man game in the post. Gasol and Bynum passing back and forth in the paint. Farmar and Bynum, Ron Ron and Gasol… of course, Kobe facilitates all of them, but when they’re setting each other up as well, that’s when we’re really rolling. That, I believe, is what they were going for in that game.
See, when you see Kobe standing there, that’s not all you see. If you look, you also see guys like Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and Lamar Odom working the ball on their side of the floor. It’s not just that Kobe wasn’t as involved — it’s also that his teammates weren’t looking to get him involved. Considering this team had spent most of the year just passing Kobe the ball and watching him play, I think the fact that they were actively not passing him the ball, choosing instead to do something of their own on the other side of the floor, is as strong an indicator as anything that that was their game plan, as a team.
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I just watched the game up until kobe is taken out in fourth
I don’t see really see what you are talking about. No where did I see him giving him up. Kobe actually ended the game the way he started it. He was directing the offense, posting up and passing when the double comes. Kobe wasn’t driving much that game. His only drive and kick I can remember was in the second quarter resulting in wide open brick by Smush Parker. Kobe’s only assist came from a Brian Cook 20 footer when he was doubled above the 3pt line. but he did made at least 6 passes to wide open Devean George, Kwame, Parker that either resulted in bricks or fouls and fumble in the case of Kwame.
In the beginning of the second quarter Kobe caught fire from 3 land and got it close to 9 but our defense crumbled, Barbosa got whatever he wanted, 3pt foul by Odom, airball 3 by Odom, Kobe missing, offense still struggling and the suns were up double digits again. Half time 60-45.
Third quarter, I see Kobe directing players on offense and defense, pointing where to pass and move. The difference is that he is playing a la Derek Fisher, staying behind the line on offense and getting back to stop the suns in transition. It worked in stopping the transition baskets but the suns started burying their 3s when our defense rotation failed. He did this for the whole third. Then with 4 seconds left in the quarter you have a commentator subjecting that maybe he is trying to make a statement by trusting his teammates.
Fourth quarter, Kobe comes out like first quarter Kobe. On three straight possessions, he post up and ask for the ball but doesn’t get it. Then he tried to drive and got called for a foul on Bell. again he drove to the basket but got fouled this time. After that the suns start sending the double team on the perimeter and he passes the ball every time. Then he got taken out.
Maybe its just be but i never saw him giving up. Was he frustrated? Was he too passive? Yes and yes because I would rather we lose at the hand of Kobe instead of those guys that were playing. Did he lose confidence? Maybe but i didn’t really see him give up. He was still doing things that could help the team win. Giving up is Smush Parker, in the fourth quarter, slowly walking to an open guy while he takes a shot
You can't pick that ball up and run with it
-Phil Jackson
by Madz on May 31, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
This is excellent
It’s not blanket statements. It’s a whole, long list of specific plays that illustrate why you see what you see, which we can go back and check. We can watch the same video and say, “Oh yeah, I see what you’re saying.” And the report you’re giving (I saw much the same when I rewatched, and McMenamin described much the same) lines up with Kobe’s explanation and Phil’s explanation after the game, and since.
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agreed, Rec
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Well, at the very least, he did give some reason. Even if we don’t deem it a very good one, it’s better than what 99.9% of those who take his side of the argument have done.
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Yes.
My objective mind does not agree with his post, though. Its one of those “they were not aggressive and it was obvious if you were watching” posts. I like that he looked up stats. I do not, though, think it says anything that warrants being green.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjTm2Dl1bTo&feature=related
This youtube clip that someone linked should be green. He answers the questions himself! He leaves no room for interpretation with his answer!
When something happens and someone answers Directly for it, and explains themself completely without any stuttering or dancing around the topic, then take it for what it is. Don’t completely devalue whatever the person said or did, especially when that person has not shown evidence of being the type of person you so greatly yearn to label them as.
That said, he is human. He is not a god, and everyone has the emotion to want to quit at some point.
Alas, assist numbers do not prove that theory to me.
by Jevon O on May 31, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
It's right...
here.
Come, let us rec it together. Maybe others will join us.
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by Josh Tucker on May 31, 2010 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
REC Jevon O
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Josh, this isn’t about taking sides or outdoing 99% of people who hold a particular view. I made that post not because I hate Kobe. Quite the opposite, I call it like I see it. I’m particularly annoyed that I’m being criticized and doubted for not rewatching that particular game. I posted my opinion because it’s what I believe, and no I didn’t arrive at my conclusion from merely looking at his assist totals, it was the only stat I had on hand to explain.
As far as Kobe removing himself completely from the game as being part of the game plan, I find that dubious. Regardless of what Phil thought was the best way to run the offense, Kobe is still the best player on the court in that game. He’s the best shooter, the best passer, and the best facilitator. He’s been double-teamed before, he was double-teamed by Phoenix prior, and still made things happen.
Rewatching the video, there were moments where instead of cutting or trying to get close to whomever had the ball in order to get a pass, he just stood with his hands down.
Is only registering 1 assist significant? Well that season (reg. season + playoffs) he had 1 or fewer assist only 5 times. The number of points he scored each of those times? 50, 42, 40, 62, and 25. In other words if Kobe is not looking to facilitate or set up easy baskets for his teammates, he’s looking to score monster numbers.
Hey hey hey...
I was defending you, man.
I don’t agree with your reason, but I was the one who defended you for at least giving a reason, for at least giving us something to support your view.
Now, in my mind, the last one of the games you cited makes my point. 25. That’s a pretty pedestrian scoring number for Kobe… especially that year. Yet it was one of his games of one or fewer assists. That doesn’t prove that I’m right, but it does prove that comparing assist numbers doesn’t really mean anything.
Let me try one last thing to explain why Kobe not dominating the ball, even as a facilitator, would have been the right plan.
Remember that this is 2005-06. Kobe scored 35+ points per game. More often than not, the offense consisted of passing the ball to Kobe, and then teammates standing around and watching. If he passed to them, they might take a shot if they had a really easy one, like an open layup. But they weren’t talented enough to create for themselves, and didn’t yet have the triangle know-how to work the ball around to other teammates. So MOST of the time, if he passed it, they might tentatively try something, and then a few ticks of the clock later, Kobe’s getting the ball right back. And they’re standing and watching him.
Kobe dominating that year was by design. He was keeping them in the hunt, while behind the scenes the team was learning the triangle. In the playoffs, they unhatched the secret plan and went to the triangle-based team game, which nobody saw coming. This was MUCH more than just Kobe facilitating. It was that, but to a very large degree, it was also the rest of the team finally being able to run the offense.
So back to Game 7. They started out trying to run the offense, Kobe being facilitator. That failed miserably, as his teammates crumbled. So in the second quarter, Kobe took over. That had the potential to energize his teammates (it didn’t happen, but it was worth the shot). Once he had done what would hopefully be enough to sufficiently energize them, they went back to the game plan.
Problem was, if Kobe dominated the ball, one thing would be automatic: His teammates would be standing around watching. They wouldn’t be cutting and moving, so if he passed, he’d likely just get it back. They wouldn’t be running the offense, it’d just be a different flavor of Kobe-ball. They didn’t want Kobe-ball — they didn’t want him dominating as a scorer, but the truth is, even as a passer that would not have been enough. What they really needed was for the whole team to get involved in running the offense.
After Kobe had just finished dominating the second quarter, there’s no way they’d be engaged if he came out demanding the ball in the third. So they deliberately ran it through other players, because they were trying to actually run the triangle, not just Kobe as a passer.
It didn’t work, but it was what they had to try. And I guarantee you that if Kobe had been trying to draw and dish, his teammates would have taken some shots, but they wouldn’t have been running the triangle offense, and the triangle was what they were going for.
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My post wasn’t intended to be aimed directly at you, it was more a general comment to everyone else. I guess I will just have to agree to disagree with the majority of the people here on SS&R.
Nevertheless, this argument isn’t that important to wage, that I’m going to just drop it and focus my attention on the upcoming Celtics. I will just say one last thing which is this: I do think though that athletes do give up more often than fans realize. As fans we sometimes put professional athletes on a pedestal, and view them to be beyond reproach. Having a fierce competitive desire to win and giving in to the deepest frustrations in a game are not mutually exclusive. I do admire Kobe, and tank or no tank, I obviously still respect his game.
Nah...
I heard Raja Bell, Steve Nash, Dan Majerle, and Smush Parker signed up on SS&R just to rec this comment.
"After rewatching the second half of the game on youtube, "
Without the first half to compare it on, you can’t really make a judgement.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 3, 2010 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Finally someone else who gets it
After reading Dave McMenamin article i finally felt someone was writing something without bias. Now you have written this and you have truly achieved what you wanted to do with this post.
Only now Kobe is getting respect for his play, which for years has been an annoyance to me as a Kobe and Laker fan. His play these past few years has been a wonderful thing to watch and can only be describe as Kobnificent.
cool screen name
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jun 1, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't really believe
that the “left coast” is so naive!
Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!
Everything you post here is negative. Why post at all?
Don’t you have your own Suns site to post to? At least offer up something relevant.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
by SoCalGal on May 31, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Josh isn't from the "left coast"
Actually he’s pretty much stuck in the middle of the “right middle”.
Why are you here again? I honestly can’t remember who you root for, and that’s a good indication that you aren’t adding much to this place.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Everything you post screams, "I need a hug"
You post for reaction rather than to actually talk basketball. Sad.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jun 1, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
good post Josh
fortunately for me, I never got to see game 7. I was at a friend’s wedding, and I remember being really down about missing that game. It was a heartbreaking series, I listened to all of game 6 on the radio where Kobe poured in 50 points only to have no one rebound Steve Nash’s missed 3 or close out properly on Tim Thomas (Kwame Brown cough cough).
I think the idea of him getting others going in the 2nd half of the series is a fair point. When watching that season, I thought to myself, there is no way this team is gonna get very far if Kobe is having to score 40-50+ on a regular basis. He and the coaching staff were practically staring at elimination during the halftime of game 7 and what got them wins in the previous 3 games was when Kobe was not taking tons of shots and scoring 50+ but rather when he got Odom, Brown, and Walton going which is probably a far more effective strategy. Besides when you look at today’s team, they are winning ball games because they are getting others going. Kobe having to score 40-50 is no longer necessary anymore.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
Drain Scandal - Don't know a better place to post this
Since Kobe’s drained knee made such a headline:
http://my.lakers.com/blogs/2010/05/31/531-injury-update-andrew-bynum/
Apparently Andrew Bynum got his knee drained earlier today as well. Let’s hope it works the same magic that it did on Kobe, even though their injuries weren’t exactly the same…
Great article Josh
I managed to find Kobe’s first appearance on Inside the NBA following Chuck’s comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjTm2Dl1bTo&feature=related
Kobe mentioned how during game 4, his bucket to tie the game at the end was his first bucket of the 4th and that LA overcame a double-digit 4th quarter deficit by getting contributions from Kobe’s teammates – he didn’t just take over the game for them to come back. So in this context, game 7 is completely understandable and I’m inclined to agree with Kobe that in order for LA to beat the Suns, he can’t jack up shot after shot, he needs to get his teammates involved – not only to come back but to gain a collective confidence to improve defensive play.
What is the nature of your thoughts, gentlemen, when you say "fuddle duddle" or something like that?
by RudeMood19 on May 31, 2010 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Wow, I didn't know that
Another very solid point in a whole litany of points that seem to heavily favor Kobe’s explanation.
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REC Josh
I did read Dave’s article and watched the game in question first hand, I was soo pissed that I turned the game off from time to time, thats how crappy Kobe’s teammates were, just one more game to go and they completely dissappear. It was ridiculous and to read opinions of Kobe tanking was just ridiculous to me. Teams win not individuals, thats why I get mad when they(media) do the reverse to Lebron, they blame only his teammates and Lebron can’t do no wrong, that’s also ridiculous so I just learn not everyone will appreciate Kobe’s basketball skill but I know I will, each and every time I see him play, he’s a complete all around best basketball player and as long as he does his job and get those wins, I will appreciate his game, appreciate greatness.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
i HATE kobe!!
Here’s video of kobes Cocky Jab…and this is why I DONT LIKE KOBE!
http://www.3n1sports.com/basketball/kobes-cocky-jab-and-this-is-why-i-dont-like-ko
really? are you serious??
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
I think I smell a troll...
You already posted this elsewhere. Please see my reply.
FOLKS, DO ME A FAVOR: DON’T CLICK ON HIS LINK.
in all likelihood, he’s just trying to get hits by creating a post on a controversial topic and then dumping the link on a high traffic blog. Don’t give him the satisfaction.
3n1sports.com, we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt… once. We’ll assume you’ve actually come here to make a point, not leech traffic. The point, laughably weak though it is, has been made. If you post the link again, anywhere here at SS&R, we will assume you’re just trying to leech traffic, and ban you.
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another one bites the dust
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
www.mybeatshop.com/czheckproductions
Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.
lmao
Josh is back in full force for these Finals!
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 1, 2010 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Charles B says only god can stop kobe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fmvnI08tQ&feature=related
this was 2007 but are you telling me kobes digressed that much?
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
www.mybeatshop.com/czheckproductions
Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.
um, regressed?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Notice that Charles only said those comments about Bryant when it was safe to assume he wasn't in position to win a championship?
Barkley does not like Bryants multi-championship resume. He is, I believe, angry at it. He was more comfortable with Kobe being closer to him in calibre; great, but without a championship that could be directly attributed to him. Kobe threatens Barkley, it seems.
epic
i think your right. you need to post more
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
www.mybeatshop.com/czheckproductions
Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.
My impression at the time...
We all remember watching the game, right? What were everyone’s impressions at the time, uncontaminated by the postgame analysis? I remember the Lakers being run out of the building in the first half. Second half starts, they go back to working the game plan – it wasn’t like they decided to panic and abandon everything in favor of Kobe gunning. It failed completely, and they continued to get run out of the building. It was only at this point in the 3rd quarter, with the game obviously and hopelessly over, that everyone became surprised that Kobe didn’t start shooting every trip down the floor. Did that constitute quitting? I guess, if you want to call it that. We don’t know. I was fine with it—it didn’t matter at that point. The suggestion that Kobe planned to give up in the 2nd half to prove a point is ludicrous.
i watched the game and i didnt think kobe quit at all
all i remember is how i was saying the suns got lucky to come back like this. i wanted to play the clippers
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
www.mybeatshop.com/czheckproductions
Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.
Hooolllyyyy shit... and I used to think my longer articles were long....
:P
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
FYI
I shortened this. A lot.
And then I shortened the shortening of this.
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LMAO
Well, I just managed to do 5.1k in three hours (1hr of which was research/formatting/linking/finding pics), and have still got more to say but don’t want to crash the servers lol. Plus, it’s 1:10am over here and a have to wake up at 6.30 tomorrow morning for school… I need to stop leaving things to the last minute.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 2, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2010/6/2/1495700/nba-finals-positional-preview-los
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
by Saurav A. Das on Jun 2, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh snap
Now that’s what I’m talking about.
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and lmao, still ripping in to Andrew Sharp?
someone should email him this link
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
We have a member of the Celtics blog
who calls himself “KobeWearsAPurpleThong”. He’s an absolute riot when he details how and what Kobe does.
Anyway, Kobe is a great player but he’ll always be known for thinking himself as bigger than his team.
That’s why the C’s win in 6 and lights out for #18 in the Staples Center. Kone will get to pout on his homecourt.
Planning on taking 4 of the next 5, are you?
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...

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