Are The Lakers Clutch?
84 to 85.
That was the score after three quarters of playoff basketball. The Lakers were down by one, with 12 minutes of play remaining. Far earlier on in this season, when the Lakers had a ridiculous record in games decided by five points or less, and the Lakers had garnered a reputation of toying with teams early on before finally deciding to come out and play, Lakers fans would already be confident in a Los Angeles victory by this point. Something like Game Two of this series, maybe, where the Lakers and Suns were tied 90-all at the three-quarter pole before blowing the Suns away late to transform the game into a double-digit victory, 124 to 112. The reality, this time around? A 106 to 115 loss.
Now, to label the Lakers as 'un-clutch' is inherently stupid, as one only needs to point to earlier on in the season, as well as more recent outings such as Game Two to see that the Lakers CAN prevail in the clutch. But can they do it consistently, like a truly clutch team is capable of? Do they look at home in money-time? More often than not, the answer this season has been 'no'. The Lakers panic in the clutch, stop going into the post and rely on perimeter shots from players who, in actuality, really need to just stop shooting. They stop running their offense, gamble on defense, take bad threes early into the shot clock. They don't correctly box out on defense, allowing easy offensive rebounds for the opposition. They commit stupid fouls. They fail to match their opponents' energy level.
In fact, watching a game where they are losing in the clutch, one would find it hard to ever envisage a situation where such a team could be a force in crunch time. How could players who take horrible shots, brick open threes, turn the ball over, fail to box out and commit stupid fouls ever survive in a close game, some may ask. Well, sometimes those players get hot. Sometimes the shots fall, the bad passes miraculously find their mark, the rebounds fall into their hands. Sometimes.
The one seeming constant the Lakers have in the clutch is Kobe Bryant, aka the Black Mamba. 'Now what about him?' some may ask, 'He's the game's best closer!'. And they have a fair point. What was it, seven gamewinning shots this season? Countless one-man runs to push the Lakers ahead? Yeah, something like that. Kobe Bryant in the clutch is oft unstoppable. Sometimes his shot will be off in crunch time - he's only human. What makes him so clutch? Well, some of it is that he knows he can't be stopped. So, why would he pull something like he did this game? Amble around casually on the weak-side with six minutes to go (not even positioned properly), taking only one shot until the game was out of reach? Many will only remember his array of excellent shots created off of penetration when there were two or three minutes remaining in the game, but by then the Lakers were down by double-digits and the game was effectively out of reach.While it truly mattered, when the Lakers were still within striking distance, he took only one shot, which he missed. Other than that, he preferred to play the role of facilitator, passing out of soft perimeter double-teams to three-point shooting embarrassments such as Ron Artest and Lamar Odom. These threes were admittedly wide open, but there was a reason Phoenix was happy to leave those guys open - they couldn't shoot fish in a barrel. On the other end of the spectrum entirely, Kobe was hyper-efficient and virtually couldn't miss a shot, yet didn't feel the need to force himself on the game in the fourth, instead passively watching his teammates throw the game away. Why? I get that Phil probably accentuated the standard line of 'get your teammates involved' before putting Kobe back in, but c'mon, after literally the first possession Kobe was in it was evident that wasn't going to win it.
Why is this? Because frankly, players such as Lamar Odom, Ron Artest and Derek Fisher are inconsistent as hell. Those were three of the four players out there with Kobe late in the game, and they all contributed in missing wide-open jump shots over and over again. Lamar Odom has garnered a reputation over the years of being one who will step up when the Lakers need it most, but even that is just a footnote under the massive 'inconsistent' label always attached to his name. I've read an article before that presented the argument that Lamar Odom is 'inconsistent but clutch', but I believe that to be an oxymoron. Clutchness won't magically make wide-open threes drop in. Ron Artest has been a decent carrier of a team earlier on in his career, and has made some clutch plays to go along with that, and even made some in the regular season, but three-point shooting is not governed by clutch. It's governed by practise and consistency. While I have no idea about the former, Ron Artest certainly does not subscribe to the latter.
And Derek Fisher. Point-Four. Or, more recently, Game Four. Look at those highlights and then say he isn't clutch, I dare you. He has a knack for hitting the big shot, true, but his shot is still not consistently money, and never has been. During the regular season, it was consistently bad, and now while he's stepped his game up in the playoffs, one just can't count on him to be accurate from deep on a night-in, night-out basis.
Now for the other player on the floor, Pau Gasol. Is he great? Yes, he's been the best big man in the playoffs. Is he consistent? Yes, he's the most consistent player on this team. Is he clutch? Nope. Why? Because, in crunch-time, intensity rises. In big men especially, that manifests itself in more contact. The refs realise this and thus let more contact go. Now while Pau is by no means 'soft', he is certainly not the type of player who thrives in heavy-contact environments. The Suns at all times in this game had a body on him, and in crunch time that body started pushing harder, grabbing more often and being as physical as possible. Robin Lopez is a decent defender and a big body who by no means shrinks from physical play, and he was effectively able to neutralise Pau. Many will claim that it is the other Lakers' fault for not looking for Pau more actively, but Pau failed to get good position. Why? Because in money time, elbows fly, shoves are given and Pau just isn't accustomed to that environment. It does more than affect his game, it affects his mindset. Therefore, he's just not clutch.
And the bench? Jordan Farmar has shown miraculous clutch ability from time to time, just ask Ammo. He's had clutch plays on both the defensive and offensive end throughout his career, and occasionally can seize the momentum of a game. Shannon Brown has hit the occasional miraculous shot or two. Even Sasha and Luke used to have their moments, back when they were in the rotation. Are all of them capable of being clutch? Yes. Are any of them consistent enough to be clutch? Hell no.
Also, a prime mark of a 'clutch' team is an ability to execute and close out on the road. This was present in this Los Angeles team last season, who finished the season with the league's best road mark, but disappeared this season, where the Lakers had a mediocre road record. This is becoming even more blatant in the playoffs. The Lakers' current playoff record is 10-4. They are undefeated at home, at 7-0, while on the road they are a far more pedestrian 3-4. Can a truly clutch team be so bad on the road?
So, what are the Lakers? They are obscenely talented, very large, have plenty of point-getters, an excellent playbook when run correctly and have a tough defense. But they're very, very inconsistent. And that in itself is enough to stop them from being truly clutch.
Other points:
- The zone defense can be disconcerting at times, especially when a team executes it with as much energy as Phoenix, jumping every passing lane. In such circumstances, there are two ways to attack the zone. Number one is to shoot over the top of it, which Los Angeles has tried for two games now with little success. Los Angeles aren't a good three-point shooting team, and they need to realise this. If they're hitting their threes, it forces defenders to close out, thus opening passing and cutting lanes, reducing the defense's ability to double-team, and tiring defenders. But the Lakers don't often hit their threes, and thus should take a look over to the second method of fighting a zone, to attack the middle. This strategy was run to near-perfection by the NCAA National Champions, Duke, who consistently throughout the Tournament attacked zones by having their center, Brian Zoubek, flash to the free-throw line and catch the ball with his back to the basket, thus opening up numerous passing and cutting angles. With an excellent passing big such as Pau Gasol, the Lakers should be able to run such a strategy effectively, though their ability to move away from their offense to implement such a strategy is doubtful.
- How the HELL did the Phoenix Suns outrebound LA by 15? Pau had a pretty terrible game by his standards, but other than that there's no one singly responsible for LA's atrocious work on the boards.
- Kobe has had back-to-back all-time great playoff performances, with 36/11/9 being followed with 38/10/7, yet Los Angeles has lost both games. Others need to step up on the road.
- The Lakers shot a higher percentage than the Suns, it was free throws and rebounds that lost them the game.
- The Lakers REALLY need to stop settling for threes. 28 attempts, only making 32% is the height of inefficiency.
- Statistically, the free-throw discrepancy this game was not particularly bad, after accounting for Phoenix's free-throw numbers being inflated by the Lakers' intentionally fouling for the last minute and a half. However, many touch fouls went Phoenix's way, which didn't even directly aid them with free throws, but disrupted the flow of the game.
- Neither Pau nor Drew is fast enough to single-cover Amare, and Drew's lack of mobility due to his knee injury makes it hard for the help-defensive schemes to work properly, and even when they do they have the side-effect of giving up easy offensive rebounds to the Suns' other bigs. Lamar Odom really needs to step it up, and defend Amare.
- The Suns' bench is REALLY fast.
- Anyone else finding it weird that when both teams play offense efficiently for an extremely high-scoring game, Los Angeles wins, but when the pace slows down a bit and defenses kick in a bit more, Los Angeles loses? Kinda the exact opposite of what was expected at the onset of this series...
0 recs |
173 comments
| Add comment
|
Comments
Quit coming over here just to incite with 1 liners
You’re making all of us look bad.
Nice article, surprisingly objective. Kobe – definitely clutch. The rest seem pretty unproven. That being said, having Kobe on your team still results in a lot more clutch than most teams can lay claim too. I’d be curious to see the outcome of last nights game had Kobe gotten a significant amount of touches in the 4th. What happened there anyway? We he being unassertive or was your supporting cast laying a big fat stupid egg?
by Lime on May 26, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
big fat stupid egg....even after i re-watched my recording of the 4th.
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Supporting cast = not good
But Kobe = also unassertive
What happened was in the third he’d call for the ball on the weakside after someone else draws attention on the strongside on the perimeter and thus get a bit of space to shoot a three or fake-and-drive, due to the nature of the zone. In the fourth, he started at the top of the key, drawing the double-team and the kicking out to the wings, who again due to the nature of the zone were left open. Unfortunately, these wings were either Ron Artest or Lamar Odom, so brickfest galore ensued. Later on, he went back to the weakside, but instead of being positioned correctly and calling actively for the ball, he was very passive and not in the right spot, drifting around, and watching his teammates try and score. It wasn’t just that the Lakers weren’t looking to get Kobe the ball, it’s that by where Kobe was positioned, and with the Suns’ defense so active, it would take 3 or 4 difficult passes to get him the ball.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure."
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/ - Visit, and be loved. Troll, and die a painful death. =]]
by Saurav A. Das on May 26, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Not even close to half the time was that the case.
There were a few times when Grant Hill was in at the end that they literally were playing man on him and zone on everyone else, but when their bench was in, he was on the weakside and they actively didn’t pass quick enough to get it to him when he was in position and calling for it. Case in point, Fish dribbles past him to penetrate, then dribbles out, and then expects Kobe to bail him out with a last minute shot. Thats not hwo it works. I’m not gonna sit here and talk about a lack of assertiveness when more than 50% of the blame goes to a lack of attentiveness to get it to the hot hand of the night. Hell we give it to Farmar and Brown when they’re hitting and Fisher too, but when Kobe’s hitting its always fool’s gold and unsustainable. I’d trust Kobe to keep taking bad shots over these guys taking the open shots cuz right now he is playing the best basketball he’s played since the beginning of this year. An unparallel level of play right now even with the defensive lapses and occasional out of position moments.
Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say.
Kobe should have had the ball as much as possible during the 4Q.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
agreed....sorry Saurav i re-watched it more than once and have to disagree with you man
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
knock it off ya troll
ur makin the real suns fans here look bad. this is the 2nd troll post i’ve seen of yours in as many minutes, show some class.
one or a couple of fans will never represent the whole group
Some fans will never get it. All we can do is ignore this crap.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
you were just owned
by fans of your team on a Lakers blog. I think thats about as bad as it gets.
by Marty Mart on May 26, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Lime and ceek
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
lol Lime and Ceek get a cookie!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Not Clutch
If you look at them in the aggregate (i.e. as a team), I would say a resounding “No!”
On a side note, if we are having so much trouble with the Suns’ defense, what’s going to happen if we face the defense of those other guys?
The Lakers like the rest of the world look like they have underestimated it.
The Suns are running on heart and not being submissive like most of us thought they would.
With the Celtics (assuming) it would be different. The way they play is to be expected and the Lakers know this all too well.
Lakers are too used to Kobe bailing them out
except for Dfish, the other Lakers don’t seem to want to "step up " at clutch time. Gasol in particular will pass up shots and give the ball to other players during clutch time. When Kobe is having an off day, when he is disinterested or when he is being triple and quadruple teamed, the other Lakers (except Fish) seem unwilling to take the shot.
As for the number of offensive rebounds the suns collected, most of those rebounds seemed to bounce right in Sun’s players hands. Some of it was Lakers being out hustled. I noted one sequence where the rebound was stripped from gasol, two Suns battled for it while Drew just stood there with a dumb look on his face. Because there were so many long shots, there were a lot of long rebounds. Maybe the Laker bigs need to position themselves a little further from the basket.. Phoenix Suns owner Sarver will again send a limousine for Ron Artest to make sure he doesn’t miss the next game. Artest’s lousy 3 point shooting offsets any defensive contribution he might make during this series.
For some reason the Lakers couldn't walk and chew gum last night.
Regardless of Phil’s poor attempt at humor, the Suns zone scheme did throw the Lakers off and it seems like they were too busy figuring it out when they should have been playing defense.
Kobe's clutch
but the Lakers isn’t.
Which makes complete sense, hard to have it both.
"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fade-away, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." - Kobe Bryant
I kinda of touched on this after game 3,
when PJ went for the jugular and left Kobe in for the entire 2nd half. this suns fan believes ALL the hype about kobe, (sorry LBJ but your not there yet). but even the mamba gets tired legs. how else do explain the man taking 22 shots in the game but only 4 in 4th. kobe and pau have logged a lot of min in this series. that was the difference between 4thQ G2 and 4thQG3/4
"I did not write this" by Not me
He didn't get the ball...
I remember thinking during the game, “why isn’t the ball coming BACK to Kobe?”
He’d initiate passes, then someone would fling up a misbegotten jumper. Sure, there were times where Kobe passed out when he could’ve attacked, but just as often the ball rotation wasn’t happening.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
Tired Kobe and Pau is an oversimplifcation.
Last night was more about the Lakers getting caught up in trying to keep up in a shoot out, when they should have pounded inside. The Suns did a good job of rolling back out when the defense collapsed in the middle and faster legs prevailed.
There were sets when Kobe was well defended, and many more where he was trying to facilitate and his team mates didn’t finish. Suns fans may think this means the Lakers downfall, but this is pretty much par for our bench. Weaknesses were amplified, by being out hustled in a boisterous arena.
I agree it's not that simple
I’m just postulating that for a team that relies on those 2 for so much it is significant.
"I did not write this" by Not me
Dude
How come I didn’t see you on BSotS yesterday?
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
You explain it by his not getting the ball.
how else do explain the man taking 22 shots in the game but only 4 in 4th.
Nothing to do with Kobe being tired. Watch as he asked for the ball multiple times, when he was wide fucking open, and his teammates didn’t pass it to him. Dumbasses.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
my thoughts EXACTLY SCG!!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
BUT RON ARTEST IS WIDE OPEN
SHOOT RON SHOOT!!!!
…
Trevor Ariza was pretty good. But yeah … I don’t get what was up with the Lakers’ bench. Bleh. They’ll probably play a lot better at home though. [Or, at least, Lakers fans hope.]
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Watch the game
for the first 8 min. The one shot he gets he still has to work exceptionally hard to get it. He had a lot of opportunities on the weakside where they avoided him. When he did get the ball, he had to go to the strong side to get it, whereas in the other quarters they’d get it to him no matter where he was. They weren’t getting it to him.
I don't think Kobe was passive late in the game last night.
I think he was just completely gassed. I was texting my friend rapid-fire-like while Kobe went on his tear in the second and third, and I repeatedly told him that Kobe had to (hopefully) tire out by the fourth quarter. It was just inevitable. He had played the entire second half on Sunday night, and got less than five minutes of real-time rest last night. He just didn’t have the legs to take over again in the fourth.
The entire starting team (except Drew) looked tired
most of the starters played major minutes against the Sun’s high energy 2nd team. Not having a bench really hurt us in this game and will probably hurt us in a long series.
Kobe
didnt look tired to me. He was asking for the ball the whole 4th quarter. They were just settling for shots…they needed to drive to basket!
Yes the Lakers are clutch
there isn’t a single team who has a won a title that hasn’t been clutch. Also, to be clutch doesn’t involve only hitting clutch shots. Its about clutch moments. If this was a one man sport than I would agree that it isn’t. But to be clutch in from a team perspective it requires for everyone to contribute and this team has a won a title so they have proven that they are clutch.
But it is also unrealistic to expect for a team to be consistently clutch or clutch during every game. As long as all their clutch moments equal a banner then yes they are. Either way, the season isn’t over so lets wait until the post season we define them as being clutch or not.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 10:59 AM PDT reply actions
Jackson rejects Bulls
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=AsEVWNGxPgBL7nJcoFACc68vLYF?slug=ap-jackson-coaching
If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose.
Yeah, shaqfor3 and California Waves posted fanshots about that yesterday
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
lol
“California Waves” awesome.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ur thinking about In-N-Out arent you?
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
lol
always. I started going to the gym and the worst part is that In N Out is on the same street and you can smell the grilled onions when you drive by.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh....................
In-N-Out is a fast food restaurant. Okay. I never knew about it until now. There aren’t any where I live and I’ve never seen one.
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
lol
I don’t east fast food anyway. I only eat ground beef if my family makes it ourselves. I haven’t eaten fast food hamburgers since middle school.
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
wow! I haven't eaten hamburgers since two days ago.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
LMAO P&GFL!!!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Restaurant?
its a massage parlor…I don’t know what you are talking about. : )
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, is that right?
Well, I guess I should look for one when I get a chance…I want to see how they use grilled onions in a massage parlor!
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
secret
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
DOPE!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
In a way that makes you cry.
;o)
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
by SoCalGal on May 26, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha in-n-out is just here in the west. (california, arizona, nevada, maybe utah?)
come down to california, i have a $5 giftcard from in-n-out…this must give you some sort of weird vibe…
i want it.. : )
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Just heard from a friend that they're going to be opening in Texas.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
thats pretty cool
they are going to end up opening more than one. for sure.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 27, 2010 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions
They are being put up all over Utah right now.
I live in Salt Lake City and they are goign up like crazy. They are putting up one, literally, like 2 blocks from my house.
There goes my diet and my chance to ever go skydiving. (ive been tryign to get under 250, so I can go skydiving. One of the dumb requirements they have.)
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
congragulations
: )
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 27, 2010 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions
How do you know this.......
U live in Utah???
Anyways, I still cant do it. You have to be 250. You have to have someone in the iFLY simulator with you that is equal in weight. There heaviest employee is 250. Ive tried this.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
that counts me out
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 27, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not about being "clutch"
We weren’t executing the whole game. As a hardcore Laker fan, I was terribly frustrated since the beginning of the 1st quarter. I looked for LA to come out with the proper adjustments and tear up that 2-3 zone, but we came out doing the same things: windshield wiping out on the 3 point line, never getting it into the freethrow line extended area, and end up taking a bunch of useless dribbles and jacking up a wild 3.
On defense, our rotations were horrible! I can recall at leat 5 times in one quarter alone where steve nash would penetrate off the pick and roll, pau or odom would try to hedge and when they rotated back, artest, brown, or farmar/fisher would be stuck double teaming someone who doesn’t have the ball leaving a wide open man under the hoop, or other times, a wide open man out on the 3 point line and were extremely late on closing.
The only reason we were that close at the start of the 4th quarter was because Kobe kept us in that game. He was firing up 3’s and making them, and he was the only player catching it around the free throw line and exploiting the porous zone.
I don’t put this loss to a lack of “clutch” from the Lakers but to the lack of preparation from Phil Jackson. As a head coach of a title-bound team, I expected him to make the proper adjustments to play with a Suns zone, and to ignite some kind of intensity in his players to rotate and close out on shooters and cutters.
The reason we weren’t able to “close out” this game was because we went away from the only thing that was working: which was to put the ball in Kobe’s hands and let him carry the team. IMO that is not the way to destroy a zone defense, and the Lakers better figure out a better way next game.
The gameplan was to get in the free throw line area
he consistently repeated it. The Suns kept shading it and we didn’t penetrate to take advantage of that. Poor execution doesn’t come on Phil every time. They went away from what was working pretty clearly. The 1st was the only quarter they did it and its the last quarter that we efficiently scored in the paint.
Honestly
I don’t think the Suns were shading the area. They were just double teaming whoever caught it there, which means there has to be an open cutter every single time we get it into that area, which there was. The only reason we didn’t see it happen much after the opening minutes of the game was because we went away from it.
Isn’t it up to the coach to reiterate and emphasize the importance of throwing into the seams of the zone? Not once did I see Phil Jackson mad or show any type of frustration or emotion when we repeatedly dribbled the ball uselessly and passed ineffectively around the 3 point line.
He was,
the kept repeting it during the broadcast and everything. Do you really think Phil is dumb enough to just stop saying it? There’s only so much he can say before they just have to do it. I’m not going to blame this loss on Phil at all. I would if he took out everyone who wasn’t executing effectively, but he didn’t because that would’ve left us too few options on the court. These players shouldn’t even need coaching to do this. WE need to stop trying to blame Phil for the incompetence of our players.
nah, didn't with DEN/HOU/ last year, OKC this year, series reminds me so much of
LAKERS VS. JAZZ 2007 CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS
by rickfox on May 26, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
go Rick way to give em hope.....lol
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
with HCA
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
only if we lose game 5
since the 2007-08 playoffs, the Lakers are a perfect 7-0 in game 5 playoff games at home
beating the Jazz (twice), Spurs, Celtics, Rockets, Nuggets, and Thunder.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
Surprise,Surprise
History will not win a game. You must show up and play. You don’t have the same team you once had. What are the Lakers going to do when PJ retires and kobe is gone? You don’t have a team in training!
Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!
This isn't about history
This is about experience. The Lakers have it. You don’t. Your team hasn’t exactly proven the Suns have what it takes to make the NBA Finals. The Lakers have done that and them some.
They still have the same team that made the NBA Finals in 2008, won it all in 2009, and is two wins from another Finals this year. Actually, it’s not the same team. It’s even tougher. They’ve reintegrated Bynum and replaced Ariza with Artest.
And what are the Suns going to do when Steve Nash and Grant Hill retire?
And what does “team in training” even mean?
You know what else will not win a game? Momentum. Just because you’ve won two games in a row doesn’t mean you don’t have to play a perfect game to win in LA.
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
wave
Team in training is “bench” something Lakers no nothing about. Goran is ready to replace Steve in 2-3 years. Hill is ready to play in his first finals.
Happy Days are here again! Wildcat's have #1 recruiting class again!
good luck with that one. (not really)
In order for you to get to the Finals, you have to beat the Lakers in LA, and that hasnt happened with Pau on our team. The last time you won in LA was Jan 17th of 2008. The Lakers have won by an average of 18 points vs the suns with Pau on our team at home.
Oh…….. Congrats on the 2 victories at home. You did what u were supposed to do. I love the cockiness comign out of Phoenix right now. This is still the defnding champions you are talking about. You awoke a sleeping giant. Have fun trying to slay this one. If the Lakers play like they normally do in games 5’s, this will not be pretty for you and your “team in training”.
Thats good you have a bench, cuz Nash will be retiring soon Amare is leaving for a max contract to either play with D-Wade or LBJ. So those bench players will be your starters. Good luck with Amundson as ur starting pf.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
Yes. You're right. It means nothing.
Fairly inane comment oldcat. In and of itself, the numbers (LA 41-1 when up 2-0, Phil 35-0) mean nothing… but they are indicative of a level of preparation/application that goes on within the organisation that holds those numbers to be a truth.
I remember you stating that you were a Knicks fan (I think?). You could do with worrying about their regular history rather than being a wet blanket here.
Cheers.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
My mistake... you're a Suns fan.
And the Lakers have more than a few years to “replace” players.
You feel free to rest your laurels on Dragic.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
i dunno..maybe i just have a different view of the NBA.
Ive read everyones post..and i couldnt agree more about the defense. But game 5 is just going to prove everything ive said all along. As far as clutchness..i could care less..i want a banner. I love my team being champs!
by Kobe Won Kenobi on May 26, 2010 1:15 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
lol
according to a Suns fan I did to. I don’t ever remember that. but oh well. I guess its a crime to be confident in your team.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
damn right it is....cuff em
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
lol...
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I think u just predicted that the Lakers would win game 5.............
cuz the Lakers dont lose game 5 at home. period.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
Well done, SYMUN_SEZ
It looks good on you when you admit your mistakes.
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
yo sarge i use to be stationed in Barstow
by Kobe Won Kenobi on May 26, 2010 1:34 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
haha Irwin sucks balls....you mean the Marine Depot?
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
yea. MCLB i believe it was called.
Its sucked so bad but i loved it. We use to club at your base and hang out thete cuz it was the only place that had Popeyes lol. That was 15yrs ago
by Kobe Won Kenobi on May 26, 2010 1:39 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
lol cool shit! sux here though
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
we were so hard core..that we never made phone calls to Ft. Irwin..
We’d save a penny and just run 30mi to your base and tell the extremely over Army M.P. to relay the message…then we’d scurry back in time for P.T…lolol
Ok im kiddin..that Marine just came out of me lol
by Kobe Won Kenobi on May 26, 2010 1:45 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
HAHA! i was a Marine for 6 years bro its aight
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
over weight Army M.P. i meant..
by Kobe Won Kenobi on May 26, 2010 1:47 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
lol!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Use the reply button,
its ur friend.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
i don't think he can
it says “via mobile” after his name so maybe there’s no reply button on his phone
If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose.
Just take the ball inside- LakersForDeuce and just about everybody else on SSR
"Read my lips..."
Jackson needs to use that line on his long-range bombers. “Anyone not named Kobe or (only because he has history in big games) Fisher who takes a three gets fined.”
You beat the zone by repeatedly taking the ball to the rim, over and over and over.
Yes, you will incur a few charges, and you’ll get stripped a couple of times, and the Suns’ bigs will even block a couple. I’d say you’ll have it go bad 10 times that game, where something will make it a wasted trip down the floor.
But give Kobe his 25 shots, Fisher 10-15, and a few to the others — and then you jam it into the post 50 times.
1. You’ll foul them out or give foul trouble to all the Phoenix interior defenders
2. The game slows down
3. You’ll get a lot of free throws
4. A bunch of those 50 shots will fall
5. It will open up some dish opportunities to Kobe and Odom, who can get open looks from inside of 15 ft.
6. Fewer long rebounds means fewer transition opportunities for the Suns.
I realize it may be oversimplification, but we talk about this so much. Just take the ball inside.
Just take the ball inside.
yeah good one!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
you don't beat a zone by driving into it
you beat it with precision passing to the middle with cuts through the lanes it leaves open. You still have to hit some shots outside with more than 2 people cuz they have to rest sometime. The Lakers just didn’t execute in the lane properly, getting too concerned with the contact and not with the passes and cuts that need to be made. We’re also not doing nearly enough to exploit the weakside at all.
I disagree...
Look, Ron Artest has been around the 40% mark for 3s over the past few years. Statistically speaking, he’s due for a decent game from outside.
I believe one of the worst things he could do would be to stop shooting.
The half-crazed ramblings of a Lakers fanatic living in Japan...
"Just take the ball inside"
thats gonna be my new sig.
If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose.
reply fail
If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose.
Just take the ball inside- LakersForDeuce and just about everybody else on SSR
ANY NEW IDEA
Guys, i lived in east coast and I’m a lakers fan. What’s the L.A sports experts are saying about game 5? Can Phil come up with a real strategy on how to destroy that gimmick of sun-zone? I can’t believe we’re getting beat by a gimmick(girly defense)…according To kenny ; with a real point guard…destroying the zone is the easiest things to do. Please, I want to believe that we can pull this of in game6…
The comment about LeBron has been deleted
as will all other comments about LBJ.
This is why we have the All-Purpose thread for, and we certainly don’t need to bring him into a discussion on the Western Conference Finals.
I understand
But why can’t we make other comments about the President after JFK?
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
I thought LBJ was..........
Spanish for “the blow j**”
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on May 26, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
no other comments about that either
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Spectacular? Sure, but are they real?
Reference anyone?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Teri Hatcher on Seinfeld.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
bingo....
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
So spectacular, CA Clark doesn't want to delete it!
Saying "Hello With Malice" seven times will wake the dead.
nice!!!
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
haha!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
LMAO i can just hear CA's deadpan voice in that comment!!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I responded before I gave it a thought.
My bad. Won’t happen again.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
Nothing to apologize for
Just want to keep these threads unclogged with re-hashed arguments that have already been done elsewhere.
LOL! stop beating tha dead horse!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
is it just me?
or is this a visual euphemism for something else?
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
LOL! i was thinkin the same
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, and I know better. Shame on me.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
The one play that stands out to me in that 4th quarter
is when the clock was winding down with Fisher having the ball. Kobe was wide open behind the arc, yet he went into a iso against Channing Frye and forced up a terrible jumpshot which got blocked. They did run a few double teams on Kobe which prevented him from getting touches. But still we could have got him the ball a little more or at least Gasol. Maybe even run a few pick and rolls with Gasol at the top of the arc, draw the double team towards Kobe and pass it to Gasol for a drive. By letting Artest and Odom take desperation 3s at the end of clock, we are playing into the what the sun’s defense wants us to do. And I know our lacking defense was the central cause of the loss, but our poor execution in that quarter was partly to blame.
As for whether the Lakers are clutch or not, they are still a very clutch team. Two of those 3 road wins were by 1 point each in two of the most hostile buildings in the NBA playoffs.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
The shot clock was winding down and he had no choice but to get the ball up
You are a witness to the Black Mamba 2010 revenge tour..Seattle, check, Utah,check, Phoenix and Boston-Fuck your team and their title chances
yes but Kobe was wide open and Fisher went right past him
better to get him the ball instead of going to an iso against Frye.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
This is the probably the 1st time im taking up for Fisher lol
This past game isnt on Fisher, Artest, or Kobe….Pau and Odom got abused by the smaller Suns and are the main reason we got outrebounded…..They got out muscled and completely trashed on defense…After the Last game i log on and see an article about Bynum but none about Pau after game 4 who doesnt come up Big when the game is in the balance..All I ever hear is how he’s probably “One of the if not the most skilled big man in the league”. What should be added is that only applies in the 1st 3 quarters…Give me a player that can produce in crunch time rather than one who turns into a 7 ft Stay Puff Marshmellow Man and crumbles under pressure
You are a witness to the Black Mamba 2010 revenge tour..Seattle, check, Utah,check, Phoenix and Boston-Fuck your team and their title chances
i still didnt like that he was going away from Kobe in the 4th!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I, on the other hand, always stick up for Fish (heh heh, Fish sticks)
but this time he blew it.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
HA HA
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 26, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2010/5/26/1487934/best-fan-in-the-world
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
All right, which one of you guys is that?
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
For those still confused as to why 3-2 or 1-2-2 zone is effective against the triangle
this might help answer some questions.
by rickfox on May 26, 2010 3:55 PM PDT reply actions
Its effective,
but perfectly executed offense can always overcome well played defense. Their zones holes come because they always shade toward Kobe. So when Kobe’s on the weakside and we refuse to give it to him, we refuse to force them to shift and to give us the lanes we want. We continually try to attack the strong side instead of swinging it weakside and taking advantage of the lanes that periodically
I get really frustrated when Odom chucks shots, instead of hanging around the elbow
or running baseline screens.
by rickfox on May 26, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Suns fan here. Have also liked the Lakers for years. Suns have a nice but fairly stupid coach in Gentry who decided to play a limited defense uptempo game first 2 games. Players had no clue why he was doing this and fell apart. so we were 2 games down,
Third game the line started Suns minus 3 and went to Lakers minus .1.5. I loaded up on the Suns since every book in creation needed the Suns and after a long series of no contest sweeps the NBA needed a real series here plus Gentry promised to go back to defense. Do I think you got screwed in game 3? Not sure. I believe if they had to the refs would have done anything they needed to give the Suns the game. The fourth game was more of the same but less certain. I think the longer minutes for your starters brought on by a very weak bench started kicking in. Kobe playing almost 45 minutes not really a good thing as he is no longer young.
Generally feel both teams are pawns and Stern is still deciding who to give it to.
Obviously I hope it is the Suns and it may be to make the public think this is legit. Tend to doubt it though. I think Stern feels he can do anything and he and Phil go back a long time so think you are about 60%.
Who should win? Think the Suns gave it away at the beginning and that big a mistake by Gentry is unlikely to let go. Possible positives for the Suns
Much deeper team loaded with good young players.
Walton not having ben healthy really hurt you as the rest of the bench (do not consider Lamar a Bench player) are really weak.. Also Fisher breaking Nash’s nose and then next game hitting him in the face may make it a little tougher for the refs to give it to you.
Whole thing is tough to evaluate because i amnot sure how many minutes Robin can play.
In any case tend to think the 2 teams are fairly close now. Hope whoever wins gets the ring. Since I bought a ticket early in the year on the Suns to win it all at 81 to 1 I do have a clear picture of what I want but as I said feel this is pretty much a decision Stern makes.
lol Jevon!! stealing my lines eh?
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
up at the crack of dawn, I love it, game day, my man, GAME DAY!!!!!!!!!
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
haha yeah up at the crack of dawn comes with the job description. i was up 4 hours ago...lol
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
what's your gut tell you about the game, bro?
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Lakers dont lose game 5's in the playoffs....
Especially at home!!
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
I don't really have a pulse on the series, it's going back and forth
So, I really trust that you guys that live in Cali, have a better perspective than moi.
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I live in Salt Lake City............
I just heard that the Laker are 18-0 when playing in game 5 at home when the series is tied.
If Kobe talked to the team, they wont be losing. Look for a crazy defensive and rebounding effort tonight.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
Lakers D.....rebounding.....and intensity will be sky high. Fuck the Zone it wont matter.
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
whoops! that was a reply to Rick....lol
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
yea, I see a lot of tip balls, deflections, the wings gotta hold their man,stop cheating, roaming
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I would love to see Brown and Farmar pull a dragic and each score 20 points.
Wont happen, but it would be awesome to see!!!!!
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
Walton seemed to have an idea of what to do in game 5, I think Phil will play him more minutes
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
yes he already alluded to this in an article
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 27, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
lol!!!!!!!!!!!! my bad. Lamar Odom & Paul Pierce need to get the memo
Cockiness kills, it doesn’t save.
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I think u mean Priscilla Pierce...........
ha ha
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
if Davis can't go, the Celtics are really f'd for game 6
by rickfox on May 27, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I will laugh...
MY ASS OFF!!! If Orlando comes back and wins in 7. “Priscilla Pierce” was reported saying, “see you next year,” to one of the Orlando fans as he walked off the court after game 2 in Orlando…(alluding to them sweeping them in Boston…). Ms. Pierce will feel like a real dummy!
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
On Facebook? Use Connect to join SB Nation. Share insights with fans and friends.- » Create a new SB Nation account
- » Already registered with SB Nation? Log in!

by 

































