Examining Why Pro-LeBron Conspiracy Theories Fail
by wondahbap on May 13, 2010 10:20 AM PDT
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PrintIt's my belief that the biggest blemish of David Stern successful tenure as NBA commissioner is the wide spread belief in some sort of conspiracy one way or the other. It seems to be ingrained in most NBA fans, and casual observers to some degree whether they know it or not. We've had some LeBron / NBA bias or league conspiracy talk around here lately. Honestly, it's way off base, but let me indulge the LeBron Conspiracy believers for a bit, and we'll play a little game with conspiracies to explain why it's off the mark. If you you believe in NBA agendas, I'll tell you why you don't have to worry about LeBron James winning the 2009/2010 NBA Championship.
Disclamer: This is an exercise in explaining hypothetical situations. I do not believe in this conspiracy theory, nor do I think the NBA is fixed. I have put some thought into this, because it's fun. In a league that markets superstars (as opposed to the game like the NFL), it's is easy to fall into this trap, or give thought to. But I repeat, I do not believe in league wide conspiracies. Also, if you do believe in conspiracy theories, it's absolutely ridiculous as Lakers fans to worry about them. We would probably end up on top in 9 out of 10.
Let's assume that NBA conspiracies do exist. In order for them to hold true, you would have to base all assumptions that the NBA is doing what would be best for business. That's what conspiracy involves. A definite reason to make something happen in order to profit in some way. Going off of that, there's not chance that this is the year that LeBron winning the Title is in the NBA's best interests. Not financially, and not by appearance. If you don't believe that the Lakers will repeat because they happen to be the best team, but because the powers that be will determine it, let me ease your mind...
To play this game, we will have to assume three very important things:
1.) The NBA wants to set up LeBron's legacy as the future Greatest of All Time.
2.) The NBA wants LeBron to play in New York, Brooklyn, or Chicago.
3.) LeBron doesn't know what he's going to do yet.
This would all have to do with the Kobe Bryant vs. LeBron James debate. For the past two years, the NBA (and Nike) have heavily marketed and promoted the Kobe vs. LeBron debate. I'm sure many of you have participated in this debate, whether it be in person or online. If so, you know how heated these debates can be. You'll hear about stats, hypothetical situations, potential, accomplishments, teammates, etc. You name it. The debate seems never ending. This is good thing for the NBA. There's a power struggle that keeps fans involved and passionate. This is fact. What we can argue over is what is better for business right now. Kobe or LeBron? New York (or Chicago. When I say New York, I mean Knicks or Nets) or Cleveland? In my opinion, right now, it's Kobe and New York, respectively. Let's start the theories.
No matter whom you feel is better, there's only one way to settle the debate. A head to head match up for all the marbles. With many people starting to lean towards LeBron, this season is just as crucial or more important to Kobe's legacy as last year. See, Kobe can't let up. The LeBron supporters come even harder year after year. Even the fiercest of Kobe supporters knows that it's only a matter of time before they have to concede the debate. It's natural. Kobe can't be this great forever. I would also have to assume that LeBron winning the Title would force the Kobe defenders to relent completely. Right now, Team Kobe will always have his accomplishments to back them up, no matter what LeBron does after this season. The impressive stats LeBron puts up with nothing to show for them are just meaningless numbers. For now...
It's about legacy. The NBA markets superstars over the game itself. We feel the need to define the greats by accomplishment. Who they beat. Who they didn't. How often they won. How often they lost. The NBA feeds off nostalgia. When a potential superstar breaks into the league, what do we hear? Comparisons to other legends. To Michael. Magic. Larry. Isaiah. The list goes on and on. We feed on the nostalgia and legacy of our past heroes and great teams. So, thinking about the Kobe/LeBron debate, and what might be the NBA's desire for LeBron to leave Cleveland, they would need him to fail this year to protect legacies and set up a better storyline in the future. There's still time for LeBron's legacy to be defined (if not another player), and for it to be done with a fairly clean slate. They can sell his struggle right now, just as they sold Mike's. Just as long at it's not Kobe who defeats him.
If LeBron won a title this year, how bad would he look leaving Cleveland? How could he? We hear talk of him possibly being THE All-Time Greatest, and there's just no way he could leave Cleveland after a Championship. Remember, we're under the assumption that the League wants LeBron to leave. If he loses? Everything is fair game. You've heard it already, so need for me to delve into why. In a conspiracy theory world, the NBA wouldn't want to help LeBron stay in Cleveland. They'd do what they could to force a loss. Unless, Lebron expressed his plans to stay in Cleveland in the long haul. He hasn't seemed t have done that. That's reason number one. That's the easy part.
Number two is more complicated. But good for conspiracy theorist Lakers fans...the NBA needs to protect Kobe's legacy. At least right now. Kobe's still the marquee player in the NBA. He's still the most popular and talked about. Until LeBron decides what he wants to do, there's no point in risking Kobe and LeBron's legacy. Especially in a Finals match-up against each other. Assuming they feed off the Kobe/LeBron debate, how much does it kill one side of the argument for one to lose to the other. Why spoil that prematurely? Why bite the hand that feeds you?
Kobe? He can't lose yet. If Kobe loses to LeBron, it definitively kills any argument as him being better than LeBron, or the greatest player of his generation. There would be no more questions. No more debate. It knocks Kobe's legacy down and kills an entire fanbase. A very large, money spending, tv watching fanbase. Loyal or bandwagon. Lakers fans are many and would be devastated. The questions and doubts all come back. Shaq, three Finals losses, Pau's arrival. It might flush away everything Kobe has built up.
LeBron can lose now. Just not to his MVPuppet cohort. If LeBron loses to Kobe, all Lakers and Kobe fans have the ultimate leg up. Plus, it smears the LeBron as future GOAT potential. No way he can suffer a Finals loss to Tim Duncan and Kobe, then be considered the GOAT, if he couldn't take the torch previous generations greatest players. Right now, Kobe is still too good, LeBron's status isn't clear, and don't forget. Would the NBA really want to tarnish Kobe's recent accomplishments by having Shaq get Ring #5 as a role player? Kobe is worth more to the NBA than Shaq is. Kobe still resonates with young NBA fans. Shaq doesn't.
In a strictly business sense, here's the best case scenario for the NBA:
- The Cavs lose to Boston in the Semis. LeBron also can't afford to lose to possibly lose Dwight in the ECF's again. Especially if the Magic win it all. Remember, we've already established that LeBron has to lose.
- The NBA is getting major publicity with LeBron's possible failure. Add the questions of whether he's ready with his upcoming free agency, the NBA could rule the summer by staying in the headlines in a way that the NFL would be jealous of.
- Boston eventually advances to the Finals, where they lose to the Lakers. A rematch of these great rivals would be epic. I think it's bigger than Kobe vs. LeBron, right now. The Lakers beating the Celtics makes a great story in Kobe and his teammates avenging the crushing defeat in 2008, and gives us an answer to who was the overall better team in this span. Yet, none of the Celtics legacies are ruined by a loss to the Lakers. They have a built in excuse of age. Celtics fans can be proud that their team, with Championship hopes considered dead prior to the Playoffs, even made the Finals. They'll appreciate the effort, and always claim they would have won in 2009 if KG never got hurt. Nostalgia.
- Lakers over Celtics puts a stamp on Kobe's legacy by giving him 5 Rings. Making him, bar none, the greatest player of his generation. It also kills the "But he won three Rings playing alongside Shaq" angle. Do you realize what it means to take a completely different team to three straight Finals, and then winning back-to-back Titles? With a big man, in Pau Gasol, whom just may be the polar opposite of a Shaquille O' Neal? History might show that it could have been Shaq who won three because of Kobe.
- The NBA could then focus on LeBron's legacy when he decides where his address would be. Preferably in New York, where the NBA could then possibly reach heights it's never been to before with Kobe on LA, LeBron in NY or Chicago, and Dwyane Wade taking whichever of the two LeBron declines. By the time LeBron starts winning, Kobe's legacy is cememted to the point, that if the Lakers did lose to King James' team, it doesn't matter as much. Most of, it not all of the basketball world might already consider LeBron as the best player, and Kobe's age by then just makes that obvious. Still, it might appear that LeBron finally took the torch and the league is his.
- Oh, and after Kobe cements an impeccable legacy, don't be surprised if Shaq comes home to come off the bench and win a Ring to help him surpass Tim Duncan in what may be a lockout shortened season. The Shaq/Kobe debate would already be dead, but his return would be mega.
You see, if you want to play the conspiracy angle, look at it from all of the angles. Then you'll see it all works against LeBron and in the Lakers favor. In Kobe's favor. The Celtics favor. Or even the Magic. No one gets hurt. The NBA cashes in, and sets up better stories in the future. It's because we define the greats by the feats and accomplishments, or who they defeated or lost to. But if there is no real answer, then we'll never really know, and the NBA doesn't want to lose any fans by ending the debate that is still going strong. Think about Michael Jordan's struggle. He had the great stats while Boston, then Detroit ruled the East. But he lost, and lost for seven years, until he figured it out. Boston got old, he finally beat Detroit, then went on to take the torch from Magic, who was already 5 Rings deep. Whose legacy was hurt in all of that? Not a one. Celtics, Pistons, Lakers and Bulls fans all remained happy, and readily accept Jordan as the GOAT, while still able to remain satisfied in the legacies of their teams and the stars who led them. Larry got old, Isaiah beat Jordan enough, and Magic had 5 Rings. LeBron? He's on that path. He'll have his day, but not before we do. We'll all be happy.
*Let me remind you. This is all hypothetical. I don't believe the things I explained above unfolding as a "plan." Everything could play out just as I explain, but because that's just how it is. A "natural order of things" as Jevon O. put it. I just wanted to show the "Stern wants LeBron to Win" faction that any conspiracies most likely make no sense. I believe the Lakers will win, because they are still the best team in the NBA, that the Celtics have shown they aren't dead yet, the Magic are worthy, and that LeBron might not be ready, or that his team definitely isn't ready yet. LeBron will win Titles because he's just that good, and when he does, it's because he's finally ready to get over the hump. It may be this year, it may not be. Kobe won his because he's just that good too. Nothing was ever handed to any player. It will play out on the court, but either way we're covered. Haha.
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Short summary
Even if you believe in conspiracy theories, they still don’t add up to Lebron winning the title this year.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
It will never be long enough for conspiracy theorists, personally don't understand it my self,
succinct, syllogistic reasoning, it’s good writing.
by rickfox on May 13, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
No not at all
I was helping the lazy people out there!
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I thank you also
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be committed against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the Limelight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Interesting!
I love your analysis on the “nostalgia” factor that budding NBA stars always seem to be compared to past stars.
One interesting thing J.A. Adande of ESPN said a while ago (earlier this season) was that if LeBron wins this year, he is more likely to leave Cleveland because he has given the forsaken town a title, and now feels like he can leave without a monkey on his back. Whereas if he doesn’t win the title… he will most likely stay because he wants to prove himself as a “King” and not a quitter.
I thought it was a different way of looking at it, thought you might like it too.
I've thought of that before.
Just not sure it could really happen. It makes him look like a selfish mercenary, more than frustrated star.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
The storylines are epic
There are too many to compare. And because there are so many possible storylines, but not enough time to enact them all, that’s why I believe there are no fixed games in the NBA. For example, let’s look at Shaq and Duncan. You mentioned Shaq, and this article is mostly about Kobe and Lebron… but, let’s look at this fact. Teams with Shaq or Duncan made the Finals 9 straight years from 99 to 07. (10 in 13 years, if you count Shaq’s Orlando run). Both have 4 titles. Both are considered amongst the greatest big men at their position ever. But who was the best of this generation?
Imagine a Finals matchup of Kobe vs Lebron and Shaq. Shaq needs his 5th to pass Duncan. Both Kobe and Shaq need a 5th to pass the other, and prove who was right once and for all. And Lebron NEEDS to beat Kobe atleast once to prove his status. But this may never happen.
Let’s look at this offseason. There’s so many possibilities of how it plays out, depending on how the Cavs end the season. I think winning the title in Cleveland makes it only 60/40 that he stays, because a popular theory is that he can leave Cleveland happy that they finally got a title. More would be great, but ask Boston fans, they are MUCH happier about that first one than they were about the next one. Just like we were about that 1st one with Shaq and Kobe.
But if they lose in the Finals? I say it’s 50/50. I mean, the team made the Finals, so why leave? But that’s his second loss in the Finals, already as many as Kobe. Lebron can’t afford to have more Finals losses on his resume. Joe Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Michael Jordan never lost in the Finals. Get the drift?
But let’s say Cleveland bows out, either tonight, Saturday, or in the ECF. I think it’s still 50/50 on Lebron leaving. I don’t feel him going to Chicago, because I feel it’s a bad PR move. While he can handle the pressure (we believe), I think he needs to establish his own legacy, not try to recreate MJ’s in Chicago. New York is epic, LA and Miami is cool…. but think about this… LA, Chicago, Miami, and New York have all cleared cap space to chase the biggest superstar in the sport…. the league’s biggest markets… but what would you think if the local boy says to all that fame and bright lights… “Nah, I’m good right here in little ole Cleveland.”
Now won’t that be a shock?
And let’s not forget in all of this, that we still got Wade, Melo, Dirk, and Nash. The Canadian has never been to the Finals (not this year, Steve!!), Dirk needs atleast 1 title to put himself on equal footing with KG. Melo I believe is going to be the NBA’s Dan Marino, or better yet, the next Reggie Miller. He’ll stay in Denver forever, never leave, and never win a title. Wade however, I believe, is best suited as a running mate to another superstar. He’s a great personality, but I just don’t see him leading teams to titles as the unquestioned alpha-dog.
Ok, my brain hurts. That’s all I’ve got for the moment.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
But if they lose in the Finals? I say it’s 50/50. I mean, the team made the Finals, so why leave? But that’s his second loss in the Finals, already as many as Kobe. Lebron can’t afford to have more Finals losses on his resume. Joe Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Michael Jordan never lost in the Finals. Get the drift?
You’re right. A tny loss in the Finals is bad for him. Besides conspiracy talk, and just focusing on legacy, I had this argument with someone this week. It’s better for LeBron to lose before the Finals. It only shows that his team isn’t there yet, as opposed to being good enough to get there, but LeBron can’t lead them to the finish.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
Wow. Nice theoretical! You took some time!
I don’t look at it as conspiracy, but the ‘natural’ order of things. I mean, theoretically, ORL could screw everything up, but Boston does seem destined to this last great run. Cleveland does seem ‘unready’ still. Lebron does seem to have NYitis
Yeah, Jevon.
After re-reading this, I could totally remove the words “conspiracy” and just make this an article about what it means to the NBA, and the legacies of Kobe, LeBron, Shaq and or the Boston 3.
I think I may have only encouraged the conspiracy theorists, by making it seem like the “theory” just doesn’t apply this year. Oh boy.
There’s a reason I limit my writing….
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
If we end up meeting the celtics in the finals
Jerry buss needs to remove all the courtside seats and replace them with wheelchairs.
by _logan_ on May 13, 2010 11:29 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
A great scenario
Except for a few minutes in the second half of Game 1, the Celtics could be resting up for the Magic right now. And they almost won that series last year without KG. They still have to win tonight, because it will be almost impossible in Cleveland if they lose their momentum. I think the Celtics will feel that tonight’s game on the parquet is a must. I’m sure the leprechaun will be there, tormenting the Cavs as he did the Lakers for so many years in my youth. But I want the Celts to win, for all the epic story lines.
First, with the Celts Big 3 getting older by the minute, this might be Kobe’s last chance to beat the Celtics. And you can’t be the greatest Laker ever without beating the Celtics, right? Ask the 1985 Lakers about what it felt to be the first.
Second, if Kobe gets #5, maybe we could see Shaq come home to replace DJ Mbenga. Kobe wouldn’t mind, because with the two together, Kobe would always be one up.
Third, if Kobe has a 5 up lead on LeBron, LeBron could not catch up until Kobe is 36. And the Lakers have a team that is still capable ofa couple more titles. Kobe helped Phil get his tenth to beat Auerbach for all-time coahing titles. Could Phil refuse to stay to help Kobe get #7. If the Lakers lose this year, it’s a much tougher argument for Phil.
Let’s all watch how the officials call tonight’s game. We saw in Oklahoma City that the officials seem influenced by a home crowd. Will it happen in Boston? Wondahbap has a great point on the issue of delaying the confrontation of Kobe and LeBron—perhaps until the baton is ready to be passed?
Finally, there’s nothing like a Lakers-Celtics finals. Nothing. It’s right up there with Dodgers-Yankees. And it’s no cakewalk for the Lakers, although I believe that revenge thing would be the extra motivator that sends the Lakers over the top this year. Don’t worry about the wheelchairs for the Celts—in the immortal words the great Shaquille O’Neal: there are no back-to-backs in the playoffs.
by celticandlakerfanreally on May 13, 2010 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
I want to
But it’s never worked out for us.
One thing’s for sure. I can never look at LeBron James the same way ever again. The image I had of him for so long has been beaten out of me.
Reggie Miller scored 39 points in an incredible game 5, to put his team up 3-2
Lebron had a really bad game 5. He could easily come up huge tonight and then Boston has to go back for game 7.
You know how many times the Lakers have been on the brink and come back.
by rickfox on May 13, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I fully believe the Cavs can come back
Just not sure if they will… the pressure is on everyone like crazy. Not just Lebron and this “possible last game” stuff, but his teammates. The fate of Cleveland is also in their hands. And if musings from people like Artest or Ariza were right last year, and LBJ’s teammates already got a feeling, then yea… I wouldn’t want to be Mo Williams tonight.
But who knows. Maybe Mo comes out and scores 30, Jamison gets 25, and Shaq owns the paint.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
I've seen Boston choke more this year than a Barely legal teen working for Hustler
by rickfox on May 13, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Boston's a proud team
They have championships and heroes to fall back on.
Us? We have nothing. No pride. It’s been ripped away from us time and again.
Settle down bro, have you seen winning time: Reggie Miller vs. New York Knicks
by rickfox on May 13, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
that was an awesome documentary.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you just watch "Casino Royale?"
Don’t give up yet, there’s still hope.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
dam Wave
you alright man!
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
good luck tonight wave.
im nto rooting for or against either team, as i think either team will caus eproblems for the lakers. as will the magic. the Finals are going to be awesome this year.
"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
by LakersFoEva on May 13, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Boston could easily overplay this whole scenario.
If there is a game 7, it’s going to be tough to beat Cleveland three times at home.
by rickfox on May 13, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
you mean like I did last year...sigh...
Actually, how cool would it be if Phoenix won it all? Their city, outside of the 2001 Diamondbacks, is just as starved for a championship as we are. The Cardinals were a joke until Superbowl XLIII, and the Suns have been to the NBA Finals twice, all losses, and they’ve come up short in the Western Conference a lot in this decade. Wouldn’t Phoenix winning make a more feel-good story? The only difference is that it’s more attractive a city than Cleveland.
not cool really.....
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Agreed.
Don’t take it too far.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
I jsut threw up
"Attitude reflect leadership, captain" - Big Jules
There is hate and there is "get the fuck out of my way, I've got a parade to get to" - Cool Dudes on May 12, 2010 10:11 PM PDT
http://twitter.com/KBZinLA
fuck no! on Phoenix wining it all
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I live in Arizona
and there’s no starving for sports success in this state. We’re just too new. We don’t have decades upon decades of history like the east coast does. Phoenix is great, I love it there… but championship starved? No way.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
lmao!
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Another flaw in the conspiracy theory
If Cleveland were to lose this year and LeBron was to move to a bigger market, Stern would never have let Ziggy return to the Cavs. The return of Z improved the Cavs (but obviously not enough) and many thought the Cavs would be a lock to win with him in the playoffs line-up.
I believe there are conspiracies in the NBA, which were evident at the beginning of this decade: I.e. Lakers & Kings:
1) Celtics & Knicks were stinking up the place, LA needed a real rival.
2) 2002 series should never have gone to 7 games. The NBA loses lots of money when series go less than 7 games. Officiating may have been partly biased to extend the series. Worst officiated series of all time.
3) The rivalry created earned lots of money for the NBA through 2007 (until the Kings started to stink again).
Leave it to a Washington D.C. guy to rip Lebron relative to Kobe
I don’t think this is fair, but I think some of you will find this entertaining.
“You know who woke up the happiest guy in life when the sun came up today?” Legler asked. "Kobe. Because there was a general consensus that LeBron had surpassed Kobe as the best player in the game a year ago. Kobe Bryant wakes up today, watches LeBron get killed for a week after they go down to Boston — and I think they will — and Kobe is thinking, ‘I told y’all, it’s not that easy, is it?’ "
And whether he leaves Cleveland or not, he should not have fussed so much earlier this season about whether to ditch the No. 23 because he believes Michael’s old number is too hallowed.
Right now he should worry about not switching to the Nos. 8 or 24, because that would be very disrespectful to Kobe, almost as disrespectful as someone comparing the two players’ legacies at this point in LeBron James’s title-less career.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 13, 2010 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't usually care for Legler, but this is good.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
you're right, the tone is unnecessarily harsh
but I was thoroughly entertained!
I can't tell if Phil Jackson is playing 3D chess and is 10 moves ahead of us or if he's just goddamn senile...
I think LeBron goes off tonight.
BUT his teammates will fall flat again, Cavs lose, and responsibility is deflected off of LeBron some and the “his teammates suck” angle is pounded into submission.
See ya in New York!
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
I mean pounded into oblivion. ?? Whatever. I'm sure you all get the point.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
if the Cavs lose this series
Lebron’s legacy is tarnished period. Will he some day have a chance to redeem it? Yes. But I don’t see him winning a regular season MVP again next year even if he averages a triple double unless he makes miracles happen tonight.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
The thing is
His teammates didn’t fall flat in game 5. They did their part that night and then some. They combined for 74 points, including 21 points from Shaq, and 20 points from the bench. If we could have played any defense, we might have had a chance.
they lost because they couldn't stop the boston offense
and ray allen just couldn’t miss—which is always bad news (when you play against them)
when you're superstar
you know, the guy that calls you his "supporting cast, just doesn’t seem to give a crap I’m pretty sure its easy to lose games.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
That was part of it
But whenever LeBron wasn’t handling the ball, Cleveland’s offense was actually functioning with some manner of fluidity. The end started to come when the ball when exclusively through LeBron and it was “dribble, dribble, dribble, hot potato it off to a teammate with two seconds left on the clock.” Hell, with the way Shaq was playing, just feed the ball to him and let him handle the double teams by passing to open shooters or punish the guy that tries to guard him solo (as he was drawing fouls left and right on Davis and Perkins).
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Great article Wonda I really liked all of the angles thrown in there. As for tonights game 6 here is what I think. As bad as Lebron looked in game 5, Cleveland has already dominated the celtics in the Garden after a loss at home so to say that the Cavs are dead is kind of jumping the gun. I know that anything can happen in a single game but both teams are proud and the Cavs did have the best record in basketball that wasn’t an accident they still have the weapons to play well, If I remeber correctly the Lakers got blown out in round one and responded by wining two in a row to move to the next round. I know the situation wasn’t the same but great players and good teams rise to the occasion. I guess thats what we are waiting to see, whether or not Lebron will step up and be what everyone has crowned him to be. I’m not a huge lebron fan I just respect that he has been one of the top two players in the game the last few years and I expect him to come out and play well. I think if the Celtics blow this game their confidence will be shattered and will lay an egg in Cleveland, so i’d say more pressure is on the celtics they don’t want to go back to Cleveland for a game seven.
lol "Wonda"
good job Wanda
"Attitude reflect leadership, captain" - Big Jules
http://twitter.com/KBZinLA
What I don't like is that NOW they start saying how much his cast sucks
A couple days ago No team could compete with their talent and depth. Now it’s all “how many Cavs could be starters on the Lakers/Celtics/Magic?” C’mon Son.
"Attitude reflect leadership, captain" - Big Jules
http://twitter.com/KBZinLA
yea man, I was tired of it last year
You don’t win 60+ games with crappy cast
This team is a bunch of strippers and hackers out there
-Phil Jackson
+infinity
100% agree. The “Lebron doesnt have quality teammates” argument is pure bullshit last year and this year. Right now they have a ton of solid shooters (Parker, Moon, Williams, and West) and they got Jamison and Shaq too. If thats “not good enough to win a championship,” I dont know what is. The Cavs just keep finding new ways to roll over each year.
"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."
Can someone kindly explain
why is it financially beneficial to the NBA to have LeBron in NY instead of Cleveland? Is my understanding of it wrong? LeBron is changing his jersey next year anyway so there will be a revenue from his new jersey whether he is in Cleveland or NY. Actually it would make sense for the NBA to see him stay so they can sell the number #6 cavs jersey, then have him move in a couple of years and sell his new team jersey.
After drooling over him for a some years now, Im sure his fans will still continue to do so and buy his stuff no matter where he goes. There’s always hope, he might come later (example, people thought Kobe might go to NY next year). Despite having a crappy team, The knicks were the second most profitable franchise last year behind the lakers; how much better can they do? Is it worth risking losing money in Cleveland who was 5th last year?
This team is a bunch of strippers and hackers out there
-Phil Jackson
You just gave one reason why the NBA is more profitable with LBJ in NY.
The knicks were the second most profitable franchise last year behind the lakers; how much better can they do? Is it worth risking losing money in Cleveland who was 5th last year?
The Knicks were still #2 despite that terrible team, yet Cleveland with LeBron isstill only #5. That right there should explain it to you. Imagine NY with LeBron, they’d be #1 easily. New York is that heavy. But it;s not about just merely ranking #1 or #2, it’s about how much money they make there.
Not only does LBJ in New York sell because of the novelty, but it will continue to sell, without the Knicks having to break their necks spending money to keep up, like Cleveland has to. You’re talking about millions of casual fans. Where are those casual fans that root for “Cleveland”. Ever wonder why the Knicks don’t have “Knicks” on their unis? Because “New York” matters more. Tourists from all over the world visit New York. Not Cleveland. LeBron becomes an ambassador or sorts in New York.
You have to look at it through the eyes of a casual fan to see why it matters.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
You're right about the tourist
aspect of it. As Noah said, no one goes to vacation in cleveland.
This team is a bunch of strippers and hackers out there
-Phil Jackson
NY has a large market
as much as NY “loves” lebron, he’s not one of their own and not all knicks fans “Love” lebron. but if he acutally became a knick, he would have the largest & richest fanbase (competeing only with the lakers perhaps) in the NBA. in fact, if the knicks see a “revival” the entire of city of new york could bandwagon on (and NY is larger than LA)—that’s a lot more revenue than cleveland can ever offer.
if lebron actually does leave cleveland though
I might actually start cheering for cleveland.
feel kinda bad for them (and it’s not cleveland that i dislike but lebron himself…though sideshow bob and shaq are pretty annoying, too)
This is probably one of THE best articles I have read on SSR
But, there is one thing that I completely disagree and maybe I misunderstood. But even if The Cavs beat the Lakers there is no way that Lebron replaces Kobe as the greatest player of their generation. Does that mean that Cavs fans will have something in their favor? Yes. I will agree that they can have the upper leg in the, "right now who is the better player" argument with an emphasis on "right now" but to argue about generation then you are talking about legacy and one title won’t give Lebron or his fans the upper hand in terms of legacy.
btw..When MJwon his first title against Magic he took the torch from Magic but not the GOAT crown. No until he won his 6th title was he considered the GOAT.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:06 PM PDT reply actions
You're right about...
When MJwon his first title against Magic he took the torch from Magic but not the GOAT crown. No until he won his 6th title was he considered the GOAT.
But realistically, when MJ won it, he never gave it up. For someone of his considerable talent to figure it out was something to behold. If and when LeBron figures it out, it might be the same. He is too good to finally figure it out, then not win another. Plus, you have to factor in perception. LeBron winning 4 would probably be viewed more favorably than Kobe’s 4.
There’s a reason Kobe continues to Win (as long as Smush Parker and Kwame aren’t his running mates). He knows what it takes. I think Kobe needs to win back to back without Shaq to fully get the Shaq excuse off his back.
http://twitter.com/wondahbap
defenitely agree
Especially about Kobe having to win back to back without Shaq. I never stopped to think what winning back to back does for a players legacy. Its a very unique accomplishment similar to what it did to Hakeem’s career.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
In sports, a generation is probably defined as anywhere from 6 - 10 years.
That said, LeBron is a generation behind Kobe, just as Kobe is a generation behind Michael. Kobe will always be the best player of his generation, as LeBron will be the best of his.
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
My favorite conspiracy theory I've heard
Some people have mentioned that Bosh could end up somewhere surprising through a S&T, under the feeling that Toronto will want to get something back instead of nothing. I’m not saying they will take back trash, and some have even said that Bynum wouldn’t be good enough for Toronto. Let’s be straight about Bynum. At one point he might have been “very good”. Not “great”. But injuries have stolen his athleticism, and combine that with his immaturity and lack of discipline, I see his career best as “good” unless he’s on a cellar dweller, where he’ll average 25+ ppg.
Anyways, not the point.
My favorite theory I’ve heard is if Lebron really wants to be a mega-superstar and win championships from here till the end of time…. he forces Cleveland into a S&T with LA for Bynum and Artest.
Can you imagine the constant “He’s the best.” “No, you’re the best” on that team? Quite a refresh from Shaq/Kobe, lol.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
You mean he doesn't already get that with Shaq?
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
by SoCalGal on May 13, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
LeBron a Laker????
That would be great for Kobe, LeBron, and the Lakers.
Kobe would stay ahead of LeBron in rings as long as he’s in the game, since they would have to win them together. Kobe could easily get four more rings, giving him more than MJ.
LeBron would learn what it takes from the master, Kobe. Nuff said. But if Kobe played for 6 more years, LeBron might not have enough time to carch Kobe as he’d be four or five (depending on this year) rings behind. And Kobe would like that, right?
The Zenmaster might even stick around.
Even as Kobe ages, the Lakers would have a reasonably young core of Gasol and James to build from. And Kobe could age more slowly as Phil could reduce regular season minutes to keep him a playoff killer.
And if Shaq came back to LA, playing 15-20 miutes per game for a couple of years to spell Odom and Gasol wouldn’t be so bad, either while we wait for Dwight Howard’s free agency.
And the Lakers would finally have more titles than the Celtics. I’ve been waiting all my life for that.
by celticandlakerfanreally on May 13, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
On SSR anytime you put the name "Lebron" on the title
you are guaranteed to have at least 200 comments. I’m taking bets…I predict this post will hit 500 easily.
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 1:27 PM PDT reply actions
make it our unofficial "Will He Go or Will He Stay - Game 6" thread
I’m for it
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
in fact..
here’s my obligatory, but insightful, quote from FTS:
Humor me for a second. Could LeBron have taken it easy on the court Tuesday Night, knowing tow things – The Cavaliers need him to play huge tonight and the Cavaliers will get an extra day between Game 6 and a possible Game 7 on Sunday? Far-fetched, I know, but when given rest and treatment LeBron is a scoring machine – unstoppable.
Interesting thought.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
true..
"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG
"The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency." - 99bc99
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 13, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I enjoyed reading your post but I disagree with just one thing
Not all Lakers fan agree that Jordan is the GOAT.
I don’t because I think Magic did much more for the NBA than Jordan, while Kareem had an even better resume than Jordan.
MJ was the poster boy of the league during the 90’s when there was an explosion in media and technology so everything he did was exaggerated.
I don’t think GOAT can be reserved for any one player, but rather a collection of players eg Wilt, Magic, Kareem, MJ, Kobe.
that depends on how you view GOAT
From the way I see it, you’re describing Magic as the MVP for years until Jordan came along. They were the most valuable because they made the league better. The same of course for Bird.
But GOAT, in most opinions, is of the best basketball player who won championships. Was MJ really the most talented player, or most athletic, or best shooter? No to all questions. But he put all those intangibles together, and used these sums to play the best basketball and help his team win championships. Under these arguments, I really believe you are left with 3 players: Jordan, Magic, and Bill Russell. Picking between these players is pretty much down to personal taste at that point. But because the point of the game is scoring buckets, and nobody ever did it better than Jordan (not even Magic can make other players score against great defense, despite his great passes). I’d take Jordan 1st.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
INTANGIBLES?!
I didn’t know D-Fish played with Jordan!
"Prejudice not founded on reason cannot be removed by argument." - Samuel Johnson
thats not true. D-Fish
existed since the first WALIT…or is it the other way around? Either way, D-Fish had been showcasing his intangibles since the beginning of basketball, changing identity every so often to go unnoticed. Can’t fool me though
This team is a bunch of strippers and hackers out there
-Phil Jackson
LOL!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on May 13, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
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