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DPOY Watch: Assessing Ron Artest's Chances

[Editor's note: this fine piece was written by my colleague Saurav Das. It's being posted under my name to get around some site-tech difficulties. Enjoy. ~DF]

So, 'tis the time of the season where talking heads spurt out their opinions on the highly subjective matters of year-end awards. While I personally believe these awards are pointless, as the entirety of the system is subjective and there exists no definitive criteria for these awards, many put great stock in them and they do look good on a resume. Now, I don't have a vote on any of these, as by some great failure of perception in the NBA office, they've failed to recognize my *ahem* greatness, and correctly value my opinion. However, I do have you readers at my beck and call, and feel I may as well waste your time with my analysis of the awards relevant to the Lakers, starting with the one our candidate has the greatest chance of achieving, the Defensive Player of the Year Award. (I feel this award is actually a slight against defense, as there is a DPoY award but no ‘OPoY' award, leading many the casual fan to believe the MVP is the ‘OPoY,' which is sadly generally the case).

To determine who is deserving of Defensive Player of the Year, we must first examine what makes a great defensive player. Is it the fundamentals? The stance? The athleticism? The mentality? The strength? The court awareness? General consensus would be that it is composed of a mixture of all these elements, as well as others. They key, however, is to determine the value of these elements in relation to each other, and to value each player's level of proficiency in each. No small task.

Star-divide

Many turn to stats in order to aid them in this arduous task. While defensive stats may provide some indicator of performance, they are still often fledgling and incomplete, and too subject to variables and misinterpretation to be reliable. Many crucial defensive stats are not even recorded in box scores (blocks and steals can have varying, even negative, values). As such, in addition to the fact that I am very old-school when it comes to basketball, particularly with defense, I shall mostly ignore stats and go off what I've actually seen of the players. In my own low-level basketball league, I view myself primarily as a defensive specialist, and thus can appreciate how much certain elements such as mentality can lead to good defense.

Now to look at the four primary candidates, as well as one darkhorse mention:

Ron Artest

Ron-Ron is a possibly insane player. And that's his primary advantage defensively: his dog-like determination to stick to his man and make life as difficult as possible for his opposite number. He will give 100% on defense at all times, not resting while off-ball like many others are wont to do, but instead forcing his man out of position and making cuts difficult, therefore disrupting opposition offensive flow.

Ron is so crazily determined defensively, he even gets into ‘defensive rhythms,' like great offensive players get into offensively, and can change a game as effectively with his defense as players like Kobe, Melo and LeBron can do with their offense.

Physically, his primary attribute is obviously his strength. He, along with Melo and LeBron, is one of the strongest perimeter players in the game, and a nightmare for opponents. He pushes people out of their preferred spots with his body, blocks passing and cutting lanes, and plain outmuscles opponents at every possible opportunity, frustrating them in the process.

While his strength leads to him being abnormally large for a wing, he still possesses good quickness (freakish, taking into account his size), and can stay with his man effectively. While at 30 he has obviously lost a step from his youth, he is still fast enough to even defend the occasional point guard.

091125_artest_ariza_500_medium

While at the beginning of the season people were talking about how he has a bad tendency to overplay on his man to the point it detracts from overall team defense, and how Ariza was a better team-defender than Artest, at this point it's blatantly obvious that that was a fallacy. Artest is a deflection MACHINE, and alters countless passes every game, complementing his straight man-to-man strips; and can make an opposing team nervous to pass the ball.

The one main detractor from his case is his defensive mediocrity at the beginning of the season, where both plantar fasciitis and his weight were causing him to be abnormally slow, allowing offensive players to blow by him. However, Ron soon countered this by dropping 20 pounds and then proceeded to have a positively RIDICULOUS defensive stretch where he held some of the best wings in the league far below their regular productivity.

At the same time, his main plus is how he changed the Lakers as a team. He took them from being an excellent offensive team and good defensive team to being a great defensive team (1st in the League for much of the first half of the season, till their recent mediocrity). He made them a more physical team, and gave them the ability to grind it out and win games with their defense, which was previously a rarity.

Artest has a decent chance, but most likely his relative craptitude at the beginning of the season, in addition to the Lakers' team defensive struggles of late, will probably cost him the award. Still, it warrants remembering that Artest is one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time, in the Pippen-Payton-Bowen stratosphere.

Thabo Sefelosha

The Thunder are one of the best defensive teams in the league this year, after being one of the worst last year. Thabo is their defensive specialist. Playing at the 2-guard position, he gets the start over No. 4 draft pick James Harden solely for his defense.

With a good stance, exceptionally long arms and quickness, Thabo has the base of skills to be a great defender. His excellent nose for the ball and knowledge of how to position himself in defensive situations only add to the package. The icing on the cake is his recognition of his role as a defensive specialist, and his embrace of it.

Fantasy_i_sefolosha_300_medium

He has had excellent defense against the stars of the league, admirably defending the likes of Kobe, Wade, Roy, and even the larger LeBrons and Melos of the world. As well as this, he is OKC's day-to-day defensive lynchpin, and does a good job of it.

Unfortunately for him, Oklahoma City still has far too little of a reputation, and not enough media exposure for Thabo to get serious recognition of his defensive prowess and a legit shot at the award.

Dwight Howard

I don't really need to give much of an explanation here. 6'11", probably strong enough to lift an Abrams and gifted with an unnatural vertical, Dwight Howard dominates the league in terms of blocked shots and rebounds, as well as altering countless shots. His quickness also makes him a passable defender of the screen and roll, and further aids him in his help defense.

Opposing players are constantly in fear of him, many will hesitate to drive into the paint for the fear the next second the ball will somehow be in the 12th row. Hell, even on jumpshots, many offensive players will glance around nervously, hoping Dwight isn't about to come bearing down upon them with some gargantuan block. Highlight reel plays are actually Dwight's main strength defensively, as they intimidate the opposition, causing them to hesitate or alter countless shots every game.

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Strongest to Dwight's case is the fact that Orlando has been among the top-ranked defensive teams in the league two years in a row. All this while trotting out a 3 (Rashard Lewis) masquerading at the 4 position, a tough but not particularly talented player at the three in Matt Barnes, a lazy player in Vince Carter, and a still-recovering-from-injury point guard who was never that special defensively anyway in their starting lineup; as well as giving substantial minutes to defensive nonentities such as Ryan Anderson and Jason Williams. Some may argue that this is due to an outstanding defensive scheme. But what's their defensive scheme, really? Funnel these fools to Dwight, and watch the fireworks. ‘Nuff said.

All this, plus his insane defensive stats, plus his rep, pretty much guarantee Dwight a repeat at the Defensive Player of the Year award.

Aaron Afflalo

He's a bit short, not particularly physically gifted, and was considered expendable by Detroit. Didn't stop him from morphing into a defensive force in Denver. While he does not have the reputation as a day-to-day game-altering defensive specialist as some others have, he has still played great defense against many of the stars in this league.

He's played better defense on Kobe than any player I've seen since Bruce Bowen, simply by maintaining a good stance, not falling for fakes, and sticking with Kobe through his plethora of moves. He's also played what Mike Breen (though it could have been Jeff Van Gundy), I believe, once stated as being ‘the best defense I've ever seen anyone play on LeBron James.'

Resized_kobebryantnuggets_medium

He's a great fundamental defensive player, but not exactly ‘outstanding' on a day to day basis, nor does he provide the highlights or defensive stats that others on this list do, and as such his chances of winning DPoY are less than those of anyone else before him on this list.

DARKHORSE: Kobe Bryant

Let me make this clear: Kobe Bryant does not deserve this award. He has not put enough effort in defensively, and far too often plays off his man, even when being lit up for far too many points. His ‘free safety' method of defense was working OK earlier in the season, where he was averaging unreal steals numbers, but has been a detriment of late.

True, with Ron Artest also on his team, it's very rare Kobe is called upon to defend a dangerous offensive player, so a dropoff in effort is somewhat understandable. Still, when players are dropping CAREER HIGHS on you, you'd think you'd decide to wake up and play defense instead of continuing to play six feet off excellent shooters.

The reason he stills warrants a mention, however, is that when he IS motivated, when he DOES feel like playing lockdown defense, the results are ridiculous, and his defense in these instances far better than anyone on this list except maybe Ron Artest at his best. (Even Ron Artest's comparative lack of quickness put him behind an at-his-best Kobe Bryant.)

Kobe_pierce_medium

An excellent fundamental defensive stance, good quickness, great hands. A ‘this motherfucker is not beating me' attitude. A good ability to keep a man from getting to his spots, and denying him the ball. An encyclopedic knowledge of opponent tendencies, and an uncanny ability to find the counter to them. A freakish ability to cut off all angles, forcing a player into huddling scared over the ball.

While such displays of defense are becoming rarer and rarer, they are still almost godlike when they do occur and in themselves reason enough to mention Kobe on this list.

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Comments

Display:

Id give it to Ron Ron

but there are 3 games that immediately disqualify him for this award in my opinion. the 2 games against the cavs,and the game against the magic. missing time due to a dumb injuy. but those are my only knocks on ron artest who had a more than great year. i would still vote him DPOY because he took our sub par defense and made it one of the best.

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 3:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, consistency is the big knock against Artest

He’s been awesome for stretches and so-so for others. If he displayed the same lockdown tendencies he did for that stretch for most of the year, he’d have a solid case, but Howard has been more consistent overall.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hold On 1 sec

Lebron was 9-19 in 40 minutes of action vs Artest on Christmas, in the 2 games he was 3-16 from 3 pt land but he shot a ridiculous amount of freebies at 24..vs the Magic Vince was 5-10 but shot 14 freebies…For the most part Artest has been pretty good all year and even better when he lost the weight and he got his bunyons fixed.

It's playoff time and im in asshole mode circa 09 Mamba...Fuck your team and their title chances.

by EmmCeee on Apr 16, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

true

but i still have this image of artest running at lebron and then he did that football play where he took 18 steps and jammed it down the hole.

but your right artest has done a good job its just those games we lost

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like Dex pointed out, Howard looks much better because he's the fulcrum of Orlando's entire scheme

He’s so ridiculously athletic that he can single-handedly do what Gasol and Bynum do for us together — provide an interior and weak-side presence. This isn’t a knock on him necessarily — it’s a testament to his dominance that he’s able to fulfill that role — but he’s much more prominently featured than Artest, whose role is to be aggressive on perimeter defense and take gambles because of the frontcourt behind him that can absorb any mistakes he makes.

In terms of voting, I’d give a nod to (in no specific order) Andrew Bogut, Artest, Josh Smith, and Gerald Wallace after Howard.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 4:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Err, as Saurav* pointed out

Just noticed the message at the top of the page or I would have asked Dex where his Bogut love went :p

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

No worries

But yeah, I’d have personally given Bogut a couple hundred words. I’m so bummed he’s out for the playoffs.

Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore

by DexterFishmore on Apr 16, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

are you guys connected in some special way

or you just a big fan of him?

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

come relive the battle of Gettysburg with me Dex and Andrew Bogut this Saturday in Chino CA @the battlefields

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha thats cold

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ditto

Milwaukee should have been able to cause fits for whoever got them in the opening round. Such a pity.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Artest was awesome this season.

There is obviously Dwight Howard. I think I have Bogut after him then Ron Artest. I’m sure an argument can be made for Gerald Wallace and Aaron Afflalo being in the conversation.

by E-ROC on Apr 16, 2010 4:33 PM PDT reply actions  

a darkhorse for DPOY

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

not Corey brewer

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Intangibles!

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate to say it

But that is probably the prettiest poster dunk pic i have ever seen lol A-Fuckin-Mazing

It's playoff time and im in asshole mode circa 09 Mamba...Fuck your team and their title chances.

by EmmCeee on Apr 16, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

i heard that was epic

cant wait till space jam 2 comes out

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 17, 2010 4:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

veteran leadership!

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."

by shaqfor3 on Apr 17, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

OT but

DJ Mbenga got banged in practice by Bynum and is headed to neurologist for possible concussion.

via Kevin Ding
in other news, Fishers growing a playoff beard. Drew reported no pain after practicing with the team today. Kobe said he felt fine. Lakers had a 2.5 hour practice and will have a team dinner later tonight.

"Embrace the battle" -Lamar Odom

by intuitive on Apr 16, 2010 4:40 PM PDT reply actions  

That doesn't make me happy

We need all the bodies we can get this time of the year.

For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL

by 99bc99 on Apr 16, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glass half full: Bynum is coming back well because be knocked out Mbenga.

Glass half empty: Our depth is shot.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

because he*

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

WOW

Bynum Knocked Mbenga senseless? Sounds like they were going pretty hard in practice…We get Bynum back and im feeling even better about the post season

It's playoff time and im in asshole mode circa 09 Mamba...Fuck your team and their title chances.

by EmmCeee on Apr 16, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

gotta me shitting me

are the blazers in town now or something?? Whats with all the bodies hitting the floor all the sudden??

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

But Bynum is okay right?

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes. He said he felt fine after practicing with the team.

"Embrace the battle" -Lamar Odom

by intuitive on Apr 16, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

thank god!

thnx.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

best news ive heard in awhile

id rather have a healthily bynum than a conscious mbenga

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.. If Bynum survived that collision then that is a good thing.

too bad Mbenga got hurt though.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

sounds like bynum is beasting

we need him for the rest of the playoffs to perform strong

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guess not. LandOLakers:

-Of course, if two guys come back from injury, someone has to get hurt, right? Today, the Wheel of Misfortune landed on D.J. Mbenga, who took an inadvertent elbow to the noggin and was sent to a neurologist with a possible concussion. Initially, it was said Bynum delivered the blow, something Drew vehemently denied. “I wasn’t even on the floor,” he protested.

"Embrace the battle" -Lamar Odom

by intuitive on Apr 16, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol @ bynum

hes like dont blame that shit on me lol

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

NOW U KNW

every since Kobe was like i’m ready to GO…..<<and comments on the big fella….Drew has been like FUCK that shit…..anit gonna be ME….SHHIT OJ..lol…I was never THERE!!!

" Kobe’s mentality is unparalleled and his love for the game transcends all"
By: eLreiEc

by Octavious d on Apr 16, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is anyone watching ESPN Special called The Association

ESPN followed the Lakers around all season long. I have been waiting for a special like this about the Lakers for a loooooong time. It’s a whole fuckin hour long of nothing but Lakers stuff. I hope you guys get a chance to watch it.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:01 PM PDT reply actions  

it was on tv

hopefully it will make the internet rounds at some point so we can dl it

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you email me I can send it to you. I'm taping it right now. just click on my name and you will see my email address

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

you got mail

and thanks in advance i really want to see it

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sweet!

I gotta tell you this is the best Lakers documentary I have ever seen. It’s not like Doing Work…this doesn’t sugar-coat shit. It even shows Phil and Pau arguing for a bit. But I will wait for you to see before you decide if you like it.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

omg

i cant wait to see the phil and pau argument i hope they catch what phil jackson says to odom,ive seen him take timeouts to yell at odom im surprised he even wants to be a laker

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

They show him yelling at everyone.

I just replied back to your email. Reply back asap so I can send it to you. thnx.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha nice

yeah just sent my address. noticed you got a new logo nice

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

sweet! I’ll send it to you tommorow morning. Fuck I could watch that shit over and over. thnx for compliment on my logo.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

btw..

I have been receiving a couple of emails regarding the Lakers’ documentary. I don’t have a link to it. I am just taping it on DVD that is what I was talking to Czheck about. Sorry for the confusion.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency. - 99bc99

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

is that on cable or satellite?

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency. - 99bc99

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have DirecTV, and it was listed on the schedule for ESPN

I assume ESPN’s schedule is the same regardless of carrier—it’s listed on ESPN’s website as well.

by Darkemans on Apr 17, 2010 4:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

thnx.

I see it on ESPN website’s to but it’s not listed on the channel guide on my cable.. wtf?

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

The fact that the Lakers have played to such a high level even through the injuries is a testament to their skill, abilities, and resiliency. - 99bc99

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 17, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

goin to my first doger game tomorrow

they’ll probably lose though cuz the giants got Linsuckcum goin tomorrow and the Dodgers a playing a knuckleballer.

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 5:07 PM PDT reply actions  

its a really cool experience. Baseball is a million times better live.

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

so true

"i remember one time,we was playing basketball,and we was winning the game,it was so competitive,he broke a piece of lead from a table,and he threw it and it went right through his heart and he died right on the court" - Ron Artest on wonderful childhood memories.

by eLrEiEc on Apr 16, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

awesome

The only Angels AND Dodgers AND Rockies fan in SoCal.

by desecrator09 on Apr 16, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh and by the way if you have a mid day game and it's hot OMG! the women!

I love LA

"If you want to find the dumbest guy in the room just find the first guy to tell you how smart he is." - JG

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Apr 16, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Slightly off-topic, but a great point by Kevin Pelton on OKC
At Basketball Prospectus, Kevin Pelton and Bradford Doolittle offer all kinds of great stuff headed into the first weekend of the postseason. In the Lakers-Thunder preview, Pelton touches on my biggest concern for Oklahoma City: “When Durant has the basketball and the starting lineup is on the floor, only Jeff Green (33.3 percent) is any kind of threat from beyond the arc, which will allow the Lakers to offer help to Artest.” As vulnerable as the Lakers seem right now, their proficiency for overloading defensively in the half court is still very, very strong. A team like the Thunder which doesn’t shoot well from the perimeter and has few ball-movers can have a lot of trouble against that kind of strong-side pressure.

Courtesy of TrueHoop:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15019/friday-bullets-151

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Apr 16, 2010 5:49 PM PDT reply actions  

great point

i swear its the 3 pt shot that really kills us we love to leave people open (intentionally) so they take the lower percentage shot,sometimes we win,sometimes we lose. if we can keep Durant from passing to Green we should be able to completely take away there 3pt shooting whether its double teaming durant or having artest lock him down.

now all we have to do is start hitting our 3 pt shots and we will be in line for a sweep

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

why do the lakers cheat so much on D...?...when many times they dont have too

NOT incline to play 1 on 1….when the offensive player MANY MANY times are LESS THAN..is it me Czheck..or what….?…IM NOT taking abt helping on a really GOOD or great offenive player<<<that i truly understand…

" Kobe’s mentality is unparalleled and his love for the game transcends all"
By: eLreiEc

by Octavious d on Apr 16, 2010 6:58 PM PDT reply actions  

because it has worked

im guessing that phil jackson has done it with every one of his teams. generally speaking it works more than it doesn’t. you want to leave bad 3pt shooters open while you guard everybody else. when we face the spurs it seems like they always leave matt bonner wide open and he usually does not convert those 3pt attempts. sometimes we play great 1 on 1 d,just not the whole game. i think phils 10 rings speak for them selfs

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Great men are never without flaws, but neither are they without magnificent traits that caused them to rise to such heights.

by Czheck on Apr 16, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

wow!!..you knw if you HIT me with Phil's 10 rings...

There is no rebuttal…I see what your saying..though..i guess i just feel there is a TIME to cheat on D..and a time NOT to…but after all i’m not out there on that chuck of wood…all in all.. maybe our DAMN Lakers actually get away with it more successfully than…lose with it….IF they are on TOP of their GAME…DAMN i can’t wait til .GAME 1.

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by Octavious d on Apr 16, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually Phil's Chicago teams were more renowned for their 1-on-1 D

Scottie was one of the best help defenders of all time, but aside from him, Phil always preferred to play straight man-to-man defense. That strategy revolved around a 3-headed perimeter monster of Jordan, Pippen, and Harper.

Even early in his Lakers time, Phil seemed to be inclined to help less than other coaches (obviously every team rotates, but Phil much preferred a stay-at-home D compared to most coaches).

Remember, after losing Games 1 and 2 to the Spurs in 2004, the starters had to plead with Phil to let them pack the paint; Phil was that hesitant to leave 3-point shooters.

It’s the latest incarnation of the Lakers that we’ve seen the shift in philosophy. The players on this team (maybe not now with Artest, but mainly our role players) have poor defensive instincts. That was the entire debate among the coaches, and why Rambis and Shaw finally convinced Phil to adopt the Strong Side Zone we used last year.

The SSZ is the defense that’s most susceptible to leaving open shooters on the weakside, and I think that’s what you’re thinking of. But technically Phil has only 1 ring with a team that has helped an unnatural amount.

by Snoopy2006 on Apr 16, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

forgot to finish a sentence: “Phil was that hesitant to leave 3-point shooters, even after Parker had absolutely carved up the Lakers defense.”

by Snoopy2006 on Apr 16, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

good point

i just thought it must have been what phil does. i watch alot of old laker games that i find on the internet or dl and i guess i cant say that i noticed. what your saying makes alot of sense

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by Czheck on Apr 17, 2010 4:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

For those wondering about my lack of inclusion of Bogut

I was originally going to put him in, but I simply haven’t seen enough of him this season to be able to comment on his defensive skill – I’ve only seen one Milwaukee game this season and that was when Bogut was still playing limited due to injury or something. Bogut does warrant a mention, but face it, he’s too small-market to win the award. Everybody else on this list is either on a star team like Denver, Los Angeles or Orlando; or a well-known up-and-comer like OKC.

Still, if Dex wants to put in a para about Bogut, that’s fine by me.

"That's a giant sig " - Ben R.

by Saurav A. Das on Apr 16, 2010 7:56 PM PDT reply actions  

I'll buy that.

But he was the second best center in the East, easily. He should have been an all star. Plus, he’s just a cool dude. That whole Squad 6 thing was his idea, and he bought their tickets. I wish a Laker would do something like that, if only to help combat the stereotype dumped on Lakers fans (late to arrive, early to depart, disinterested and quiet until the final minutes, etc).

by Darkemans on Apr 17, 2010 5:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Does that mean I can stop watching Shanxi Zhongyu Brave Dragons games?!

I agree with you Saurav. My comment was meant to have a sarcastic tone.

by Joshua S on Apr 17, 2010 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

They once showed a Bucks-Rockets game here over a Lakers-Spurs one

Just because the Bucks and Rockets both have an Aussie on their roster. It irritates me.

"That's a giant sig " - Ben R.

by Saurav A. Das on Apr 17, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow. Alot of perimeter players.

In the past 20 years, only 2 perimeter players have won the DPOY award (Payton and Artest). Are there really no other big guys in contention? I am going to say that it is a lot easier for a big guy to look defensively better than any perimeter player because they don’t really have to keep a player in front of them or keep them from blowing by. And they look good when they stop or alter a shot while they don’t look terribly bad if the ball goes in. And shouldn’t Gerald Wallace have been in there? That dude was putting up some insane defensive numbers before Stephen Jackson got there.

by heinzketchup on Apr 17, 2010 1:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes, Gerald Wallace has a shot

He’s off the list for the same reason as Bogut – I’m not qualified to comment on him. And no, asides from Dwight and Bogut, the pivot is a weak position all-round these days. Tim Duncan is aging, Garnett still has no knees, Stoudemire is at best average defensively, and Chris Bosh is decent but his team is too bad for him to have any legit shot. Pau is decent, but not dominant, same goes for Drew.

"That's a giant sig " - Ben R.

by Saurav A. Das on Apr 17, 2010 3:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

And also, that's why

There’s too much bias towards big men in the DPoY award, simply because, as you said, it’s easier for them to look good. I feel the need to even out the bias.

Also, a great defensive big man will often be able to lift his team defensively to being a great defensive team. Look at the great defensive teams in the League today: Lakers, Thunder, Cavs, Bucks, Magic, Miami, Boston and San Antonio.

The Lakers’ defensive frontline is more of a three-headed monster of length than any single great interior defender, the Thunder’s frontline is undersized and their defensive prowess comes more in the form of hustle, effort and an excellent team defensive scheme. The Cavs frontline has a good defender in Varejao, but I don’t see him as dominant defensively, and the rest of the inside defense is simply a byproduct of ridiculous size and good defensive schemes. The Bucks have Bogut, and Orlando have Dwight. Miami have JO and Haslem, both of whom are good defenders but neither outstanding. Boston has Perkins, Garnett and Sheed – three very good low post defenders, but having the three of them on one team and still not being top-5 defensively detracts from all of their cases. San Antonio has Timmy D, and then a good defensive scheme created by mastermind coach Popovich.

As such, the only two with strong cases are Bogut and Dwight; with maybe a side-note or honourable mention to Andy Varejao and Timmy D.

"That's a giant sig " - Ben R.

by Saurav A. Das on Apr 17, 2010 3:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, to be fair to Boston, much as it pains me,

they were first in defensive efficiency for most of the year, and when they weren’t, most of that time was spent second to the Lakers. Their defense fell off at the end, but they finished fifth in def eff. This is according to hoopdata.

One other interesting thing about this year’s DPoY: Look at where this year’s Dwight Howard, who led the league in defensive rating, falls in b-r’s all time single season defensive rating.

by Darkemans on Apr 17, 2010 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, more to your point,

look at where the non-big men fall on that same link. The first non-power forward/center is 19, Curtis Perry, who I have to assume was a SF given his height and weight (never saw the man play). The first guard is Jerry Sloan at 27 (and 28).

by Darkemans on Apr 17, 2010 5:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

#162

interesting, to be sure..

"That's a giant sig " - Ben R.

by Saurav A. Das on Apr 17, 2010 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

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