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Around SBN: Upon Further Review: Bo Knows Longreads

POLL: Who is MOST responsible for not pounding the ball inside?

I'm disappointed that the Lakers lost the game to the Grizzlies last night.  But not surprised for several reasons:

  • It was at the end of long road trip
  • They had a tough game in Boston the day before
  • The way they played they really didn't deserve to win
  • They have won so many games on last second shots already this year that they were due to lose one.

I was out after the game and turned on the ESPN710 post game show for a bit.  They were discussing the fact that while Drew had a big game the day before in Boston, he only shot 1 for 3 against the Grizz.  Pau shot 4 of 7 and Kobe was 16 for 28.  (Kobe passed Jerry West as the Lakers' all time leading scorer - congrats Kobster.)

Anyway, they discussed for sometime how the Lakers need to get the ball inside more.  One host was adamant that Drew (& Pau presumably) needs to make himself more available so they can get him the ball.  The other host was blaming Kobe jacking up shots and the rest of the team for not getting the ball inside.

I also will give the Grizzly defense 50% of the credit.  But last night was a bit of an unusual game being the end of the road trip and Kobe setting the Laker scoring record.  So my question is more broad. 

Who is MOST responsible for the Lakers failure to get the ball inside consistently?

Ed. note: Oops, I forgot to reference Dexter's item about Pau's remarks regarding pounding the ball inside.  (But now I am late for a meeting.)

Poll
Who is MOST responsible for not pounding the ball inside?
Drew & Pau do not establish good enough position so a good entry pass is not there
44 votes
Kobe starts jacking up jumpers and running isolation plays
44 votes
Fish, Lamar, Farmar & Brown get too hurried and don't run the offense with enough patience when the quick score is not there
45 votes
Coaching
14 votes
It is almost all due to the opponent's defense
3 votes
Other (please comment)
4 votes

154 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 27 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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It is the balls fault!

Ok really the center if he wants the ball has to post up, I see our centers doing that. The only problem is that 75% of the time Drew doesn’t have his arm-hand up to demand the ball. Pau on the other hand does everything right but doesn’t start the move fast enough all the time. KB you never know when he is really trying to get the ball to the post, just doesn’t make commitment. Plus a lot of the lakers don’t know or perform the pass to the post man well.

by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 2, 2010 12:26 PM PST reply actions  

OK, I know that all of the above contribute to the problem. But based upon your comments it was interesting to see that you voted for “It is almost all due to the opponent’s defense”.

I have heard Phil comment at times that the Lakers have actions/sequences (triangle doesn’t have set plays really) they can run to facilitate getting the ball inside but that they rarely run them.

I haven’t decided how to vote yet.

Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champions, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.

by olf on Feb 2, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

the eyes can deceive

it may look like there open but there not the defender could pick off the pass.

but really i think it comes down to the way we run our O i love it and i dont question phil jackson.

the only thing id like to see us add is that play the celtics run 235 times in a row where the the first guys drives st8 to the basket draws 1-2 defenders and the SF,PF,or C is around the 3 pt line and comes to the rim for the easy dunk assist.

it doesnt always work so thats why we should do what we do best but have 1-4 plays that we can run if needed. im not worried im saving up for finals tickets

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions

by Czheck on Feb 2, 2010 1:38 PM PST reply actions  

i think its a mix

of Kobe going to isolation a little too much and Fish, Lamar, Farmar, Artest, & Brown get too hurried and taking shots to early in the clock…i think they all (except kobe) fell in love too much with the 3 ball on the road trip…
also Pau’s soft play on the road trip could be another reason why were not dishing the ball into the paint as often as we normally do….

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."

by shaqfor3 on Feb 2, 2010 2:55 PM PST reply actions  

+1

it’s a combination of all the poll choices above, that most of the time prevents the ball going to the low post (or inside the paint)

by altree on Feb 2, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

It's Pau and Drew

During Shaq’s day he’d scream at who ever had the ball to throw it down low. Pau needs to demand the ball during the game and make a move with it rather than standing around and passing it back out to never see it again.

by King J77 on Feb 2, 2010 3:09 PM PST reply actions  

I have also noticed,

that the ball never seems to get thrown back into Pau or Drew once it comes out. Remember back in the day when Shaq would throw it out, reposition himself, and we would throw it back into him? I dont really see that happening with Pau ro Drew.

The ball seems to get swung right away when it comes out of the post. That, or someone decides to jack up a shot.

"People are going to judge you. They threw rocks at Jesus. So what do you think they’re going to do to me?" -Stephen Jackson

by LakersFoEva on Feb 2, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

he says he wants the ball more
why doesnt he tell kobe or someone when theyre on the damn court rather then in an interview??
cmon pau, man the f*** up…

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."

by shaqfor3 on Feb 2, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

oh

and another way to get the ball more is by not fading away or playing soft against the big boys (cavs and celtics)
you want people to give you the ball yet you cant step up against 82 year old Zydrunas Illguaskas…

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."

by shaqfor3 on Feb 2, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

and another way to get the ball more is by not fading away or playing soft against the big boys (cavs and celtics)
you want people to give you the ball yet you cant step up against 82 year old Zydrunas Illguaskas…

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."

by shaqfor3 on Feb 2, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

i think i have deja vu.

"People are going to judge you. They threw rocks at Jesus. So what do you think they’re going to do to me?" -Stephen Jackson

by LakersFoEva on Feb 2, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah sorry

i accidentally posted the comment twice

"Just by the aura of D.J. Mbenga being there, the shot missed."

by shaqfor3 on Feb 2, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Other

It’s Smush Parker’s fault.

Yes, it’s me, Gils_Keloids. I changed my username, it’s more “professional”! I feel like I’m wearing a suit.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gil Meriken on Feb 2, 2010 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

Not to mention that I’m sure you are glad that the “Keloids” cleared up.

Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champions, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.

by olf on Feb 2, 2010 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

ah, I see you are a Meriken. Very patriotic.

sorry, couldn’t resist.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Feb 2, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a mix of the above

But yes, a lot of the times, it’s the perimeter players throwing up early shots, of which the bench is especially guilty of. The primary problem as of now is establishing a rhythm or “flow” in the offense, as Artest often disappears for stretches, Fisher will occasionally stop the flow with an ill-designed drive or shot, and Farmar or Brown frequently break it. Admittedly, the most effective and involved I’ve seen Gasol and Bynum is when Kobe runs the pick-and-roll with either of them with Farmar and Brown lining up on the wings to get the quick pass for an open three if available.

And while we’re on the subject, Ziller has an interesting take on a related topic:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/02/02/kobe-vs-pau-the-problem-is-elsewhere/

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Feb 2, 2010 5:55 PM PST reply actions  

Though it's not the thrust of his piece

Tom’s incorrect to call out the Lakers’ defensive rebounding. Memphis last night had an offensive rebounding rate of 26%, far less than their season average of 33%. The lack of Laker second chances was the far bigger issue.

Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore

by DexterFishmore on Feb 2, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that was a sticking point

When I read that part, but for the most part, his usage/offensive efficiency argument (while somewhat mitigated by sample size) was fairly compelling. It’s an interesting take on the “Pau needs more touches” issue.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Feb 2, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll say it's a mixture of things so I picked other on the poll...

mainly it’s the players because they play, I just don’t like the consistency of the bigs, I want all three(LO,Bynum,Gasol) to have monster games each night not 2 or 1 or 0 and that is the Lakers problem, who is going to back Kobe’s effort, who is going to do it all game long and in every game?? Right now Kobe can’t answer those questions so he depends on hisself and rightfully so Gasol and Bynum are 7 feet and can’t get good positions, can’t make passes out of the double, can’t punish every defender that defends them and don’t play aggressively all night long with DUNKS and NOT crappy finesse layups. SO who fault is it, it’s the players, when they fix their consistency they fix their problems.

There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

by BrittneyM on Feb 2, 2010 6:32 PM PST reply actions  

It's mainly the perimeter players, followed by the bigs..

Lamar Odom goes midrange a lot, but his advantage against most PFs is IN the midrange due to his versatility. Pau establishes position well when defended loosely, but doesn’t get aggressive when bodied up and is too slow to make a move after the catch. Drew’s main problem is consistency, there’s instances where you can see a picture-perfect seal-off and post-move, others where he just plays bad offense.

The perimeter players all often jack up bad shots and ignore the offense, including Kobe (he’s a perimeter player, why list him seperately? Only difference is he makes more of his shots).

Last game, however, it most certainly was not Kobe, as he converted at a rate likely better than what the bigs would have. I also direct Pau to what SVG told Dwight: “If you want more touches, the offensive glass is right there, go get the damn ball!”. Particularly relevant this game.

"That's a giant sig " - Ben R.

by Saurav A. Das on Feb 3, 2010 2:13 AM PST reply actions  

pau for not being more physical and establishing better position

but also farmar shannon kobe and fish for not throwing it to them

by matthewmafa on Feb 3, 2010 10:46 PM PST reply actions  

I wish the team stayed the same since last year

by 15xtimeNBAchamps on Feb 6, 2010 12:27 AM PST reply actions  

I change my mind.

I voted for Kobe but after watching the Denver game today I change my mind to Gasol/Bynum. Those dudes can’t get in or keep position. They’re literally pushovers. Ugh. Come on Drew, you got the size. Play like a beast!

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Feb 6, 2010 2:04 AM PST reply actions  

You may be right but

If that Denver game didn’t suck so bad I would go back and review it. But I always notice that Jordan & Shannon never take much more than a glance at Drew or Pau before going away from them or launching a jumper.

Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champions, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.

by olf on Feb 6, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

No, you may be right

During the past three games, Gasol has played stronger. Jordan has played unbelievably well. It’s been Brown who’s been taking the ill advised shots without much more than a glance inside. Maybe, it’s more like Brown and Bynum now. If those two could get in step, then wow, this team could be unstoppable.

I guess things change from game to game, and what really matters is how the team is playing come playoff time, eh.

Magic made me a Laker fan.

by thestuff01 on Feb 10, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

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