Controversial Cuts: Suspicious of the Oklahoma City Thunder
by Jevon O on Oct 28, 2010 1:05 PM PDT
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I like the Oklahoma City Thunder. I think I had a mini love affair with Kevin Durant during the FIBAs this summer. He swooped in, took control of the team, swept me off my feet, and took me to a land of milk and honey while I watched him drain 3 after 3, short ranged jumper after short ranged jumper. He scored, and dammit, he did it the right way.
But, I just don't know.
Did anyone watch those Thunder last night? Did anyone hear the grumblings from Bulls fans? They are the same grumblings our own fan base was echoing during last years playoffs: How do they get so damn many calls!?
Westbrook is a good player! I like Jeff Green. Kevin Durant is the man! Sefalosha plays great D! Harden is a youngn' with a grizzled beard and an old mans game. Theres a coach of the year on the bench. Nenad is an asshole, and yes, he throws chairs and sucker punches like a wrestler... but, really, who gives a damn about a "Nenad"?
All I'm saying is... I like these Thunder, but I am suspicious. Why? Well, hot dammit, lets go to the hoop data.
http://www.hoopdata.com/boxscore.aspx?id=301027025
*************************************************************************************************************************
Bulls:
Shots at Rim/Close to Basket: 49
Free Throws: 22
Thunder
Shots at Rim/Close to Basket: 36
Free Throws: 47
*************************************************************************************************************************
Something smells, ladies and gentlemen, and its my gym shoes that I dropped 9 dimes in last night that stench needs someone to breathe it deep, note its repugnant aroma, and attend to it if necessary. Is this coincidence? This is just game 1 of 82, mind you. Is OKC beloved by someone more powerful than I? I doubt it. Were Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant really worthy of 26 free throws between the two of them (more than the entire Bulls Team)? No, they were not.
The Bulls are a middle of the pack free throw giving team, as evidenced by the Hoopdata, giving out and taking around 28 free throws a game. Maybe they just picked up a bunch of foul happy hooligans (which is not necessarily unbelievable, because several of them are ex-Jazz players, and Thibodeau [Celtic strategist: enough said] is the new coach) and this is going to become business as usual. Maybe that's what it is..
http://hoopdata.com/teamgl.aspx?team=CHI
All I can say is that I'm suspicious... but I'm no conspiracy theorist. I just like basketball, chocolate chip cookies, red wine, a good historical fiction book on a rainy night... and logic. As it happens, my logic-o-meter has a built-in bull shit detector, and its tingling, damn it, its tingling.
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Part of it is the OKC crowd
The other part is that Rose is amazingly adept at avoiding contact by contorting his body, reverse layups, floaters, and the like. Between the fact that he shot the ball over 30 times and that no one else on the Chicago roster outside of Boozer draws fouls on a regular basis, their low number of foul shots is easily explainable. As for OKC, they start free throw sponges in Westbrook and Durant and they were clearly more aggressive in getting to the basket in the second half. Is the crowd to blame? Yes, that’s part of it. Is it a massive conspiracy theory? That’s ludicrous.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Ben I love your enthusiasm and most your shit is right on
but i watched ALOT of that game and LOVE the Thunder but when it is all said and done they are VERY good at drawing free throws especially KD and Westbrook. Do I believe it’s a conspiracy theory? No and neither does the author. Jevon is just analizing all aspects as best as he can on this matter.
Love that you pointed out the rowdy crowd as we Lakers fans already know…..they are AWESOME!
And i sort of agree with your Rose analogy as well……but he was not getting calls last nite where the contact for KD and Westbrook was the same. Should he play it up more and act a little better…..probably. Should he “draw” more contact, last nite he shoulda. But alas the Thunder got ALOT of freebies last nite and defanately last years playoffs.
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 28, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
A lot does not even describe it
We are talking 25 more points of production via free throws, given to a team that only took the ball to the paint to shoot 73% as much as their opponent. It is exactly the same situation as last years playoffs. It is the same thing the Celtics were bitching and moaning about their last meeting with OKC. I guess I’ll look up the hoopdata from that game if this topic gains ground.
Its simply interesting. I said nothing about a conspiracy, thanks for pointing that out!
Ludicrous?
Its ludicrous that you would say that Rose is “Adept At Avoiding Contact By Contorting His Body.”
That shtick is old and hotly contested among D Rose/Chicago Bulls fans. He gets hit. Just because he is athletic and doesn’t jump AT the contact does not mean he is not getting fouled. FORTY NINE TIMES the Bulls shot AT THE RIM or CLOSE TO THE RIM, 13 more times than the Oklahoma City Thunder. I guess the entire Bulls team is adept at contorting their body is amalgams that avoid contact as their 49 attempts managed to result in Less Than Half of the free throw attempts of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Or, maybe the Thunder, while shooting from the outside, are adept at magnetizing opposing players hands to hack at their elbows and forearms whilst shooting.
I find it amazing that a poster such as yourself (with the knowledge you often display on NBA topics) would end your response to this topic with the word “ludicrous.”
It's not "hotly contested"
I read BaB plenty of times and the clear opinion there is that Rose doesn’t do enough to get calls. Sure, he gets hit and doesn’t get the calls that Durant gets, but he does an awful lot to try to avoid contact, whether it’s the aforementioned layups, floaters, or whatnot. This has been a topic at BaB for years now. Take Westbrook as the opposite case — he simply barrels into his man and forces a call. Rose tries to hoist a floater over him or simply blow by him. The posters lamenting that Rose looks ages away from becoming a superstar are noting this, among other things (lack of elite court vision, the fact he increasingly looks like Steve Francis).
As for the rest of the Chicago lineup, who there is going to draw fouls? Who? Gibson and Noah score almost entirely on putbacks and midrange jumpers. Deng is primarily a shooter of long twos and has nearly no ability to take advantage of matchups on the block. Everyone else on this team save for Ronnie Brewer has nearly no ability to get to the rim, especially not against the OKC defense. No one is drawing fouls because they’re exceptionally bad at doing so — without Boozer, this is a pretty bad offensive team, which is consistent with their awful offense last year.
For OKC’s free throws, half of them came from Westbrook, unsurprising given that Rose is still an awful defender, and Durant, which is a given at this point. Did the crowd give the benefit of the doubt for some of the role players? Sure, although if I remember correctly, Maynor’s free throws came from transition and Ibaka’s because he was hanging around the basket and attacking the rim.
In any case, your exaggeration of this is yeah, “ludicrous.” You have an awful offensive team in Chicago without their best offensive option (Boozer) against a top five defense in OKC, and the two players who are usually free throw sponges against most teams either abused inferior defenders (Westbrook against Rose) or got free throws because he’s a superstar (Durant). Inflate the team’s total as a result of the crowd influencing the refs and you get six or seven extra free throws. I find the finger pointing at ominous things instead of looking at the game itself an unnecessary overreaction to try to find a more complex explanation when one doesn’t exist.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
It is Hotly contested, and you are missing the point
You said that Westbrook took Half of the 47 free throws that OKC had, but he didn’t. You said that CHI has no one who goes to the rim, and that simply isn’t true. Why? Because the stats show that shot in the paint More often than their counterparts.
Westbrook shooting 13 free throws and Durant shooting 13 free throws is bad enough, but that still leaves an extra 21 free throws for other players to take. It just looks bad, when the other team took it to the hole Much more often and got exponentially less chances at the charity stripe.
Part of the reason it looks suspicious
is that you are confusing all shots at the rim as being attacking shots. The bulls have more consistent low post offensive threats than the Thunder who really only have one post up guy on the floor at a time usually. The Thunder definitely got some whistles to go their way, but not 21 extra fts. You have to look at the right numbers here. When someone earns an And-1, its a foul at the rim normally and the Thunder only had 3 of those compared to 0 for the Bulls, no big disadvantage there. Then you look at shots at the rim for individuals. You see that the Bulls were much more efficient at actually scoring in the paint versus the Thunder. Which can have you walking away thinking that the Bulls got shafted or the Thunder just don’t have the size to stop them from scoring down low or to actually score by going down low. I don’t think its ludicrous that the Thunder, a team that has drawn a lot of fouls home and away, would get more fts its just the degree of which they did that makes it look suspicious.
You also have to figure in perimeter defense. Rose was getting burned continuously by Westbrook, which would cause the defense to collapse onto him often. Durant was shooting and getting by his man a lot, and while he may not have been as efficient as usual, he definitely gets into the lane where he can get the benefit of the doubt. Jeff Green is a recipient of fouls due to quick dumpoffs that really gives the defense no choice but to foul or watch the layup. The same can be said for Ibaka. All of those guys account for 39 of their fts. The only real doubt is that both Westbrook and Durant should’ve had 26 fts between them and I don’t remember every single foul. I also don’t think Jeff Green earned all 9 of his, but there still would have been a big disadvantage for the Bulls had they not called these fouls I had trouble with. It wouldn’t have been double the amount, but I think they still would have been at about 40 fts.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
WTF?!?!?!?!?
Brian Scalabrine played 11 minutes…………………
"What we want to remember—what we will remember—is the indelible vision of Kobe, his arms outstretched, delirious with joy and disbelief, running after and grabbing hold of Lamar Odom’s floating downcourt pass, while all the purple and gold streamers in the world are raining down on the hardwood." - Brian Tung
You heard Kevin Garnett say it once.
Playing Durant is “like playing Michael Fuckin’ Jordan” for some players.
I think another factor to look at is their athleticism and speed when they’re on offense. It makes it harder on the refs to make calls when the play happens really quickly. Also, if they have someone like Westbrook or Durant taking it to the rack at a high speed a collision looks brutal, even if it technically shouldn’t be called one. If the action is really fast in an up-tempo offense, a simple push by a defender can look like a vicious shove.
Win a ring without the king! Cavs=2011 champs?
most people are on KD bandwagon right now
due to his scoring title…the guy is barely playoff tested, barely put in a situation where if he doesnt perform well he will be critically looked.. for example last season no matter how bad Durrant performs OKC were over achievers…
and before people say oh he really is an elite player in category of Kobe and LBJ, remember Tmac showed bigger promises with back to back scoring titles, AI was a prodigy, and not long ago Melo was considered the next big thing… let the kid play at least till 7 seasons and then see how he holds…
i though Brian Scallabrine was the next big thing?
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 28, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I just learned that Sarge has never heard of Pooh Jeter.
He’s in your division now. Look out.
Win a ring without the king! Cavs=2011 champs?
LOL
who?
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 28, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Pooh Jeter, the greatest player ever.
He’s like a mix of Michael Jordan, Kobe, JJ Hickson, AMMO, Kevin Durant, Jessica Alba, Chuck Norris, Chuck Liddell and everything else good in this world.
I once had a dream that Pooh Jeter and Ammo teamed up to play on the Cavs to counter the teaming of Bosh, Wade and LeBron. It was a wet dream, needless to say.
Win a ring without the king! Cavs=2011 champs?
LOL!
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 29, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
this guy has humility though
so I’m more inclined to favor him… and he sings trey songz with his teammates… that has to count for something
It's more than KD
Its the entire team. KD didn’t shoot 47 free throws, the OKC team did.
As a former Sonics fan
I would say it’s definitely possible. I’m sure most of you have seen or heard of the documentary “Sonicsgate”. David Stern seems like a very crafty, arrogant type of dude who likes to run roughshod over his league.
Personally, I didn’t watch the game very closely, but I don’t have anything against the Thunder anymore, and even root for them against most other teams, though I expect that will change if they ever get really good and challenge the Lakers. They’re a good team whose doing it the right way, playing the right way, and all the other bullshit cliche’s that everyone says about them. You know what fuck the Thunder. I’m done rooting for them this season and going back to being bitter.
I'm not saying this to say "F the Thunder"
I’m just cautious of the way their game was handled.
The home team tends to get more calls and thats true in any sport. Durant is on the national scene now though and is being touted as a rising superstar and the frontrunner for this season’s MVP award. Membership has its privileges and I would expect that going forward from here Durant will get the red carpet treatment from the refs.
He's already been
getting treated just like everyone else. Heck if this isn’t superstar treatment from last year and this year, then I can’t wait to see his 15 ft/game season. lol.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
lol EXACTLY!
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 29, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I think I saw Timmy Mcveigh's ghost in the crowd
spooking the refs to call shit for the Thunder
Faith.... a fan's biggest downfall
That's a topic that should be avoided.
"There are no "Kobe Lovers", just people who are right." - Gil Meriken
"ANY ONE WNAT SOME OF THIS MONEY, IN IF YOU WANT SOME COME ON IN GET SOME" - the Legendary LEWIS MONROE
KD has a baiting move where he sees your hand right above his arms and he just raises up (to shoot) and gets "fouled"
I personally don’t think that’s a foul, but Kobe does it and it is a smart move to have in your arsenal.
"If you're afraid to fail, you're probably going to. You know, Fuck it."
-Kobe Bean Bryant
exactly.....he copid it from Kobes......Kobes mastered that shit NOT KD
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 29, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently, the entire OKC offense has mastered that move
To the tune of shooting 100% more free throws than their opponents when they play at home
::shrugs::
well at least opponents already know what they are gettin into in OKC ;)
"How YOU doin?" ---> bluexfalcon
In regards to Derek Fisher "Even I was begging to lay the old dog down."
---> Wondahbap
"Sticking up for a guy who played harder in a preseason game than he did in the entire second round of the playoffs." ----> Marty Mart
by Sarge Clemins on Oct 29, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hrmm
First off, eff the Thunder. They are not the Lakers. Their players are likable, but they are the ENEMY.
Secondly, they get too many foul calls.
Thirdly, well, I got nothing else to add. We went over this last year during the playoffs. If they earn the fouls, so be it. If it’s a funky discrepancy where the other team isn’t getting the same kind of treatment, then that’s not okay.
Also, lets wait for all the Kings/Celtics fans to roll in here and cry “foul” themselves about the Lakers.
For me its the consistent inconsistency that concerns me - PAGFL
It's always AMMO Time, in spirit- DexterFishmore
lebron should just lock himself away and not talk for the rest of forever-LA32
by 99bc99 on Oct 30, 2010 10:43 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
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