The Team of the Score?
Before I launch the latest in our "Fill the Void" series, I have to apologize for a few things. 1st, for writing a piece that is so clearly homeristic. It’s not usually my style, but the very nature of this argument basically compels it. 2nd, for writing a piece that is so clearly designed to spark up an argument that can be neither won nor lost because it is so purely subjective, and 3rd, for using this piece, from Informative Sports, as a jumping-off point for making said argument. The only excuse I can provide is that I didn’t want to get too much of the analysis of the upcoming season done so quickly while there is still so much time before the season starts. Without that analysis, there isn’t a whole ton of subject matter to work with unless we turn Silver Screen and Roll into TMZ-Lakers.
If you haven’t already clicked over and read the piece I’m talking about, let me save you the time and the frustration. The author, John Fraty, starts off by proclaiming that the Spurs are the team of the decade over the Lakers, using the same basic logic found on an earlier post from Pounding the Rock (i.e. consistency of success is more important than winning the largest number of championships). Since we’ve discussed that one ad nauseam already, we’ll let it go. He then goes on to discuss which teams are most likely to be the team of the next decade. His 5 choices are: Oklahoma City, Portland, Chicago, Orlando, and … the Memphis Grizzlies. It must be said, his choice of the Grizzlies has more qualifiers than a pre-nuptial agreement, but it is still an unforgiveable crime.
The other 4 choices are fine, I guess. There’s no doubt that Oklahoma City(2-3 years away) and Portland (0-2 years away) have quite an array of young, talented players that could theoretically set up either team for a period of great success in the near future. As long as Dwight Howard learns how to play offense over the next couple of years, the Magic will definitely be a force in the 10’s with quite a few young players to build around him. I’m not nearly as sold on the Bulls, who have a great piece in Derrick Rose, and a whole bunch of other pieces that never seem to fit together. But the piece as a whole got me thinking: What about the Lakers?
I know, surprise, surprise, a Lakers fan thinks the Lakers might be the team of the next decade. This, after he claims the Lakers are the team of the current decade. It’s such blatant homerism that I’d be embarrassed to put it into print … if I weren’t capable of making a decent argument to support it. So here we go, don your purple and gold sunglasses and come with me on a journey into the future. We won't have to go very far.
The future is right now.
The team of the next decade will be the best team in the NBA over the course of the next 10 seasons, starting this year. And I think you’d be hard-pressed to make an argument for any team to be better over the next 4-5 years than the Lakers. Of the teams that appear the strongest in the current NBA, only the Lakers and the Magic seem to have any staying power. San Antonio and Boston are clearly going to decline within the next 2-3 years. Cleveland’s entire roster might be different this time next year. The Magic have a young core, outside of Vince Carter, and therefore deserve their place as one of the possible teams to form the next dynasty. But the Lakers were clearly the better team last year, and it’s hard to see them relinquishing that advantage as long as Kobe remains a dominant player. Every important member of the Lakers is locked up for at least two years except for two; Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that neither one of those players goes anywhere. So, if you consider them off the table as well, the Lakers have Bryant, Odom, Artest, Gasol, and Bynum all under contract for at least 3 years. Of that list, only Kobe is over 30.
It’s true that this version of the Lakers will only remain a powerhouse as long as they can do so on Kobe’s shoulders. It’s also true that we have absolutely no idea when Kobe will truly start to deteriorate as a player due to all his mileage. It could be in a couple years, in could be 6-7 years. No one before Kobe has played as much as he has, from such a young age as he has, which would indicate that he might start to decline earlier than others have. However, no one in the league works harder or takes better care of his body than Kobe either (skipping surgeries aside). There is simply no barometer with which to judge, no previous case that we can use to have any idea of what’s to come.
In any case, I’m going with the relatively middle of the road assumption that Kobe remains a dominant force for 3 more seasons, and then begins a slow decline for a few more seasons before hanging it up. Which means I think you can pencil in the Lakers as a dominant force in the league for the next three seasons. As this decade has proven, the seeds for this "Team of the Decade" title can be sewn very early on. What if the Lakers win 2 of the next 3 titles? That may not be probable, but it’s certainly within the realm of possibility, much more so in my opinion than thinking that any of the other "future great" teams will be able to do so. That would mean they’ve already got a huge leg up on any other competition before we even need to worry about what will happen in the distant future.
So what happens after that?
This is where the "What If" game must come into play. In order for the Lakers to have a realistic shot at success once Kobe starts to take a step back is if Andrew Bynum develops into a dominant force. That is a big if, to be sure. But is it any bigger of leap of faith than it would be for Greg Oden to turn into that force? How about any Thunder player not named Durant? The very nature of this entire argument is a hypothetical, and we have every bit as much proof that Bynum can be a dominant force in as any other of the hypothetical future stars mentioned above. Hell, it wasn’t until Kobe’s 4th season that he really began to take off as an NBA player. This is Bynum’s 5th, but in terms of games played, it’s more like his 4th. All we need is for God to lay off the poor kid’s knees with the freak accidents.
So, let’s say for the purposes of the hypothetical that Bynum does turn into a great NBA player. A dominant Bynum surrounded by grizzled veteran Kobe (who is awesome, just not dominant) and Gasol could win at least one more championship before all is said and done. That would put the Lakers’ titles for the decade at 3 in this alternate reality, and to be perfectly honest, that might already qualify them for team of the decade honors, as there is no guarantee that any other great team will be the yin to this Bizarro-Lakers’ yang.
Quick aside: All of this hypothetical, including Fraty’s piece mentioned above, ignores the huge elephant in the room. There is a strong chance that the team which is most likely to form a dynasty in the next decade is whichever team Lebron James is playing for. The only problem is that nobody knows which team that will be. God forbid if he and one of his 2010 free agent buddies actually follow through on their innuendo and sign with the same team, that team will instantly jump to the top of the list as most likely to win multiple championships in the next 10 years.
Back to the Lakers, after Kobe and Gasol hang it up, we lose Lamar in free agency, and Artest just disappears, there’s absolutely no telling what happens. The Lakers could falter badly, similar to what happened after Magic was forced to retire. Maybe the last bit of the next decade won’t be very kind to the Lakers. No one knows how that all plays out. But there is a reason that the Lakers have only missed the playoffs 5 times in the franchise’s history, why they’ve been to the NBA finals in nearly half of their seasons, and won titles in ¼. The Lakers are a high profile, storied franchise, one which has never had difficulty attracting big name players (and coaches) via trade and free agency. And once Kobe retires, that event will singlehandedly pull such a massive salary number off the Lakers’ books that it will not be difficult to free up the requisite cap space to go after the huge stars of tomorrow. And you know ownership will not be shy about doing whatever needs to be done to return the Lakers to prominence. With dominant Bynum and Fill in the Blank superstar, the Lakers could reload faster than anybody could imagine. After all, history does tend to repeat itself.
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I hope Bynum become a franchise type player. I actually think it crowds him a bit to be in there with Pau. Note: I love Pau and don’t want them to change their approach. I’m just saying. . . but I have some old 2007-2008 pre-Pau games on DVD and against like Utah & the Suns and Fish would just drive into the lane and toss the ball towards the rim. Drew would sky and then slam it home. He’d also be cleaning the offensive glass and go right back up. (Fun to watch!)
And it is so hard to replace a player like Kobe (or Shaq or Magic, etc.). But one way I can see them trying in 4-5 years is packaging up expiring big contracts (don’t think they’ll ever trade Kobe so sorry Pau). Perhaps they can pry away a star who is unhappy and demands a trade – you know with all the glamor, movie stars, record deals, etc. in L A. Who knows who will be in the league by then also. And LeBron or Wade might be too old by then even if we could get them.
Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine
This is a great topic
As this post mentions, “history repeats itself” well in part I hope not. One of the biggest errors I think the Lakers made right before Magic retired was to try and still build a team around him when in reality they should have been building for the future by adding a different player to build around after he left. During the post Magic years the Lakers had no true dominant players. They were just a good team with a group of great role players. But this time, the Lakers will have Bynum and Gasol to build around. I mean when Van Exel was the starting PG who ever could have predicted that his back up would be so good and even better than Van Exel. That’s right, Fisher! Besides, who is to say that when Kobe starts to decline that the Lakers cannot attract another great dominant player either.
As far as the Lakers chances of being the best team for the next 10 years I think that is very possible. In all honesty I do believe that Kobe’s timeline for being a solid starter and contributor to this team will be longer than 3 or 4 years. Kobe’s physical abilities have started to decline because he isn’t as athletic as before but he still better than Lebron.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 24, 2009 7:22 AM PDT reply actions
I think you are forgetting the history surrounding Magic's retirement ...
Magic’s retirement came at the age of 32, brought on by his being diagnosed with HIV. It was a complete and total shock. The year before he retired, he averaged 20 points and 12 assists, and led the team to the NBA Finals. There’s no doubt Magic probably had 2-3 more seasons left of the highest quality basketball. I would have been angry if they hadn’t built their team around him at that point.
Defenitely not forgetting but....
my main point in regards to that is that there was no emphasis on the future. I am fully aware of what Magic accomplished with that team. The Lakers defenitely were thinking about the future when they had both Kobe and Shaq and they decided to go with Kobe. I am sure that Pau and Bynum is the future post the Kobe era. What was the future post Magic then?
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 24, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
But the future was dropped on their lap a lot sooner than it should have.
If Magic plays 4 more years, his era goes right into the Shaq-Kobe era.
Any franchise that lost it’s franchise guy in that fashion was going to struggle badly. Frankly, we’re all lucky the Lakers recovered from that so quickly.
good point
But HIV or not Magic began to decline regardless. Perfect example is this post. Kobe is in his early 30’s as Magic was when he first retired and we are already talking about this topic. So if it is in our minds now I am sure it was in the fans mind back then when Magic and Worthy and everyone who played a huge role in their 80’s title runs was aging. Which reminds me, since Worthy was injured in the Finals against the Bulls it played a huge part in their ability to at least compete. But if the Lakers had a lot younger complimentary player to play with Magic they might of even won.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 24, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont know. a lot of great players in recent memory have had the best season of their career after 30 years of age (i.e., malone, jordan, nash). i think kobe will see his best season at 32. given the competitive nature of magic, i wouldn’t have been surprised if he had come back the next season and won the title—against jordan. he always met the challenge, most of the time, he won.
Fisher better than Van Exel????!!!!
Fisher fit better but Nick was an execellent player in his own right. The guy did not fit with Shaq. Who did? Not Eddie Jones and he was another great player. Nick the quick was a gambler on defense and a lights out shooter when needed. Look at Nick’s career stats. He was better than Fisher offensively (and he kept it up in Dallas). Nick kept us in against Utah when they started letting Kobe shoot away (his rookie year). Don’t get it twisted. Nick was a better individual player!!!
I love your articles man
I think this team can be dominant for about 4-5 more years as long as Kobe stays healthy. I agree that our future from now after that time frame rests almost entirely on the shoulders of Bynum and the other younger players like Farmar and Brown. If Drew can become a dominant all star center that will prolong KB’s career as well as Artest’s and Pau’s.
I think you are forgetting to mention a few other important factors.
Coaches, GM, and ownership. It all starts at the top and the Lakers have shown a willingness to spend the money and make the moves to remain on top. The future of PJ may affect all of this as well. Curious to read your thoughts on this aspect C.A.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
that's what I was going to say
If we lose Jackson, say after this year after winning a possible 11th ring (when he knows he has the coaching title race without grasp), his successor must run the triangle offense. I was really hoping it would be Rambis, but I don’t blame him for getting the Minnesota gig. Hopefully Brian Shaw will learn as much from Jackson as he can.
If coaching stays the same and Jackson remains until Kobe remains, there’s no doubt the Lakers can be the dominant team. I don’t necessarily agree with deeming the Lakers “young”. In a couple of years, Lamar, Artest and Pau will be 30+. I know the big 3 in Boston did it, but they weren’t consistent all stars like Allen, Garnet, and Pierce (LO hasn’t made one all star team). So I think if the Lakers want another dynasty, NOW IS THE TIME. Don’t wait for Bynum to completely develop and sign another superstar to replace Kobe.
Yeah, the biggest problem for LA to remain a dynasty
is not the players or obtaining new players,
But who’s coaching them and what offensive system will they be running?
If it’s still PJ, then we’ll be fine.
But if PJ retires, then what happens? The current set of players are constructed to run the triangle. Do we still run the triangle? What do we do? Do we retool the entire team or find another coach that can also run the triangle (or something similar to that)?
Or does Kobe become coach AND player lol.
There’s three factors that will go into how the Laker’s future will shape:
Players’ age, PJ’s retirement, the Triangle.
Money isn’t a huge issue IMO, Buss has shown that when he’s willing to get a supahstah, he’s willing to pay da money. The issue is deciding on which direction to go into once Phil Jackson retires.
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 24, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
110% in agreement with you.
I sort of alluded to it towards the end of the post, but the Lakers front office is reasons 1, 2, and 3 why it seems unlikely that the Lakers will ever be down for long. It’s not just the money we have to throw around as the 2nd largest media market, or the prestige of the franchise, or the desirability of playing in Hollywood. The Lakers front office has a long history of being willing to take major risks for future greatness, instead of being satisfied with being good. Think about the moves they’ve made: drafting Andrew Bynum, trading a known good center (Vlade Divac) for an unknown high schooler (Kobe Bryant). Basically trading Gail Goodrich for draft picks (this is an oversimplification of what actually happened, but its’ too complicated to explain), allowing them to draft Magic Johnson. They’ve been lucky (or very good) because most of those risks have turned out very well.
One move in particular that gives Lakers fans terrible pain was the trade of Caron Butler for Kwame Brown, but that is exactly the type of move the Lakers have a history of making, because they knew that a core of Kobe and Caron and Lamar alone wouldn’t be enough to get back to championship caliber. So they took a risk and, for once, it didn’t work out. But, even today, I defend that trade, because it is indicative of the type of "championship or bust" mentality that has led to the Lakers being such a ridiculously awesome franchise.
I would go so far as to say that the single most important factor in determining the Lakers’ success past the Kobe era will not be the head coach, the GM, or the players. It will be the health and involvement of Dr. Jerry Buss in the franchise, and how smoothly the transition goes from him to the next person in charge (presumably his son). Because, when it all boils down, Dr. Buss is the reason this franchise is what it is. He’s not afraid to pay big bucks, and he’s not afraid to gamble. And even though it’s likely the team will stay in the family when he gives up his involvement (or passes on), no one knows for sure if the next person will be willing to spend what Buss was willing to spend for a winner, and no one knows if that person will have the cajones to pull the trigger on big deals.
With regards to coaching, it is important, but I don’t really think of it as being vital. I know the Lakers struggled mightily the last time they didn’t run the triangle, but it’s much more difficult to design a team around the triangle than it is to design a team around a more conventional offense. Take the current team for example. The only players on our team which are specifically with us because they fit well into the triangle are Luke Walton and Derek Fisher. Shannon Brown is also aided by the triangle because his inability to handle the ball consistently doesn’t hurt us as much. The triangle is flat out detrimental to Farmar’s game. So if Jackson retires in the next couple years, the Lakers could easily plug in Farmar as the more traditional starting point man, or draft or sign one in free agency. It doesn’t have to be Chris Paul, Aaron Brooks will do with the rest of the talent we would still have on the roster. And it’s not as if a player like Pau, for whom it seems the triangle was created, can not succeed in a more traditional offense. Honestly, the Lakers could play like most of the rest of the NBA and run pick and rolls with Kobe and Pau 90% of the time in the half court, and still be one of the better offensive teams in the league.
Where the loss of Jackson would hurt the most is in that sense of calm and panache he brings to the team. He is unflappable, and so are his teams. I would be highly surprised if another outside coach is brought on to be the head coach as long as Kobe is on the squad, unless it’s Byron Scott, or Coach K, as both of those guys have Kobe’s respect. Other than that, it’s definitely going to be one of the current assistants, most likely Shaw at this point. Besides, last season made it pretty clear that when it comes to on the court stuff, Kobe is the coach of this team. I don’t think the Lakers will dust off the old player-coach title, but I also don’t think they have to.
As you can see, I had a lot of thoughts regarding this, but I was running low on time last night, and I couldn’t see a way of incorporating all of this within the unity of the post. It’s almost a separate, less homeristic, version of the same topic.
Did nobody get the title? I thought I was being all super clever, but nobody’s mentioned it at all.
I have actually been wondering how many people wouldn't get it.........Abe.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
The Caron for Kwame trade will always haunt me................
One of the worst trades ever made but the end result was that it was Kwame who allowed us to obtain Pau. So that is how I try and look at it. The problem is that it cost us a starting small foward who would have saved Kobe some wear and tear. I remember when Shaq would go out of the game and Kobe would look him in the eye and say “I got this big fella” and he would just take over. Well Caron did the same for Kobe. He was the only player that I ever saw for the Lakers (besides Nick) just take over a game. This is why Kobe and Caron were best friends. He (Kobe) saw the same qualities in Jarvis Crittenton and low a behold, the trade for Kwame effectively got rid of the both of them.
Ron Ron will never fill this void even though he can score. He takes too many wild shots and can shoot a team in and out of a game. The Lakers will be OK for the next three years and then that will be it. Kobe will play a tired looking forth, Odom will be done, Ron Ron will be in a mental institution with Rodman and we willl still be talking about the potential of Andrew Bynum.
I think if the Front Office is able to retain
Pau, Kobe, LO, Artest (depending on how well that works out), and Drew for the next, oh let’s say, 5 years, we’ll have a 35-ish year old Kobe, a 34-ish year old LO, a 34-ish year old Artest, a 33-ish year old Pau, and a 27-ish year old Drew, which IMO, is still crazy formidable.
I think if Mitch and Buss are willing and we can keep these 5 core guys for the next 5 years, we’ll always be able to stay in contention. Of course this also all matters if PJ is still coaching and we’re still using the triangle to run our offense.
Obviously, the last half of the next decade will be less uncertain, but if Andrew Bynum can turn into the beast we know he’s capable of being, then the FO will have an easier time rebuilding around him. And if Kobe, LO, Pau, or Ron are willing to stay as our savvy back up veteran players, who knows how far the team will go in those latter years.
I think though, in the next couple of years, Mitch probably is going to be watching a lot of promising up and coming young players from other teams and wrangle them over to LA during the free agencies.
Young players like Durant, Westbrook, Collison, Rose, Mayo, Rudy Gay, Conley, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin, etc that have promising careers but aren’t necessarily tied down loyally to a franchise or a city like OKC, Memphis, Clippers and would jump over at a chance at playing in LA with the Lakers. Rose is probably the only player out of those that has a higher chance in staying in Chicago since his family’s there.
It would probably be too much dreaming to say that All-Star players like Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Chris Bosh, or even Wade / LBJ, who are the faces of their franchise and city to deflect to LA within the next three to five years, unless they’re truly wallowing in lottery hell or something. (Although obviously I see a higher probability of Bosh, Wade and LBJ bolting from their teams in that mega free agency next summer than CP3 or Wililams would if they were in that free agency frenzy). But any of those All-Stars going to LA is a very small likelihood, given that we’re so over the luxury cap it’s not even funny and also, I don’t know if we’ll need them in the next 3 to 5 years.
We’ll definitely be needing another young All-Star / Super-Star caliber player to be playing alongside Drew (from 2015-2020) depending on how long Pau, Kobe, LO, Artest can sustain their high levels of playing and also how Drew, himself, will develop by then.
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 24, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions
"Obviously, the last half of the next decade will be less uncertain"
Obviously, I meant “less certain” rather than “less uncertain.”
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 24, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Got to say maybe 6 out of ten and 4 in a row, and I think these people will help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBDcHdsmpI
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 24, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions
GOTCHA
Paul D. Kelley
It's not about doing your job, But can you do it with a TENNIS BALL in your throat!
by so.cal.native1952 on Sep 24, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
There is one other element.....
There is one other factor that could help to extend the Lakers run into the next decade that I don’t see being mentioned in all of these great posts….scouting. One of the reasons the Spurs have remained dominant is because of great scouting of European players. Where would they be without Ginobli and Parker (they also let a young Turkolu get away)? Lakers need to find a few gems in Europe to blend in with this current roster as it ages. When drafting 30th+ every year, teams have to find young players with high ceilings and whose skills they can project in 2-5 years. Its the same type of scouting and risk-taking the Lakers had in trading for Kobe and drafting Bynum, both out of high school.
Lakers are just the type of organization that can afford to take these risks and are willing to do so.
I'm not even a Laker fan...
And I’ll say that I enjoyed your post. I’ve historically taken to disagreeing with many things I’ve found written by Laker fans (although, it is generally done through trolling the Yahoo! comment boards) however, this article is very valid.
I agree wholeheartedly that the Spurs, and Celtics are both on the decline. The Magic appear to be solid, for at least 2-3 more years. I only say that much, because I sincerely disagree with the move to unload Courtney Lee for VC, I feel it makes them a weaker team. Especially with the counter-move the Lakers made getting Artest. I think that if a rematch of the ’09 Finals were to occur, then the Lakers would win simply because its a lot easier to get Kobe the ball, than it is to get Howard the ball.
As it is, I’m a Blazer fan, which means I’m obligated to say that you’re my 2nd favorite Laker poster, behind Timbo, even though I thoroughly enjoyed this article, and I may have come away with a new respect for Laker fans. Well. For now, at least.
The point I struggle with
is the one that states Bynum will be a player that can carry his team to a title.
In order for the Lakers to have a realistic shot at success once Kobe starts to take a step back is if Andrew Bynum develops into a dominant force. That is a big if, to be sure. But is it any bigger of leap of faith than it would be for Greg Oden to turn into that force?
Yes, I believe that it is a bigger leap. Talk to me at the end of the year and I may not believe that anymore. The second year after micro-fracture is the year; if Greg doesn’t happen this year, Greg probably won’t happen. Even so, Portland has a couple of guys that are pretty good, young, and not named Oden. I don’t buy into OKC. If Durant was that good they would have won more than 23 games. Orlando and ‘wherever LeBron goes’ have a chance to be in contention for years.
I think that the Lakers, without an acquisition, have 2 or 3 more years at the top. That’s if Artest doesn’t drive Kobe to an aneurysm. IMO
It wasn't the first time I'd been kicked in the cherries and called a rat by a woman, but it was the first time I didn't mind.

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