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Pushing for Small Ball: Analysis of the Lakers backcourt rotation

The original goal of this piece was to analyze the Lakers rotations across the board, and to figure out how the team’s minutes should be allocated.  However, barring injury or a miraculous turnaround in Adam Morrison’s shooting stroke and NBA career, the frontcourt is pretty much set in stone.  Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, and Andrew Bynum will split the 96 minutes at the 4 and 5 (probably right around 36:30:30 respectively, as long as Bynum can control his fouls).  Ron Artest and Luke Walton seem likely to split the small forward minutes, and that split could be anywhere from 30:20 to 36:12.  So, as I said, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of questions regarding where the minutes will go in the front court.  Ammo could steal some of Walton’s time, but anything more than a couple minutes a game seems unlikely unless he breaks out.  Josh Powell and Mbenga should be relegated to spot duty and garbage time unless an injury requires more.  Which brings us to the back court.

The back court is a trickier situation.  The Lakers currently have 5 guards who have all proven, at one time or another, to be worthy of playing time.  The starters are set in stone.  Kobe Bryant will play between 36-38 minutes, as he always does.  Derek Fisher will start, but it’s unclear how many minutes he plays.  Honestly, with the Lakers guard depth, it wouldn’t surprise me if PJ limited Fish’s minutes to about 20 a game, but it will more likely fall in the 24-28 minute category.  For nice round numbers, we’ll say that there are 36 guard minutes available.  The three candidates for those minutes are Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic, and Shannon Brown.

In terms of positions, Farmar is a pure point guard, Sasha is a pure shooting guard, and Brown is a ‘tweener combo guard, but leans towards playing the point, and he was used almost predominantly at that position last season.  So, on the surface, it seems we have two backup point guards and one backup shooting guard.  The logical conclusion to that statement is that Sasha will pick up whatever minutes Kobe doesn’t play, and Farmar and Brown are left to duke it out for the rest.  I already posted about this last week, and Lakers fans seem pretty clearly to be in Brown’s corner, by a factor of 2:1.  Here’s my question:  Why should we have to choose?

Star-divide

If Farmar and Brown are the Lakers’ two best reserve guards, why not play them together?  Brown’s got enough size to be OK guarding the other team’s off guard, especially since we’ll be talking about 2nd unit two guards.  There aren’t a whole lot of off guards who can use their size as a real advantage anyway, and I can’t think of a single one who isn’t starting.  And the potential of a Farmar/Brown backcourt goes far beyond just simply playing your best players.  To elaborate, we must think back to last year.

Through the first 15-20 games of the season last year, the Lakers bench was considered one of the best, if not the best, in the league.  At the time, the 2nd unit consisted of Farmar, Sasha, Trevor Ariza, Lamar, and either Gasol or Bynum.  This unit had considerable success because of their dynamite transition game.  With Odom and the other big pulling down rebounds, Lamar could either lead the break himself, or get it to Farmar.  Farmar would fly down the court and have Ariza filling the wing, or Sasha ready to nail a transition 3.  Compared to the slow, efficient, pace of the starters, the 2nd unit provided a great spark that quite often turned 5 point leads into 15 point leads.  So what happened?  First, Farmar got hurt, causing Derek Fisher to play big minutes with the 2nd unit.  Fisher has many wonderful qualities as a player, but pushing the pace has never been one of them, even when he was young enough to do it.  When Fisher wasn't in, Sasha was handling lead guard responsibilities.  So things slowed down.  By the time Farmar returned, Bynum had gone down and Odom was no longer with the 2nd unit.  Farmar also lacked the explosiveness that he used to push the pace with such reckless abandon.  At some point along the way, Ariza was deservedly moved to the starting role.  From then on, the bench struggled mightily.  Instead of pushing the pace, they were forced to run a lot of half court sets, and their execution of the triangle was not good.  Possessions more often than not ended in turnovers or rushed jump-shots.  Their defense also suffered, although that probably had more to do with the personnel changes brought on by injury and the need for Ariza to play starter’s minutes.  In short, the 2nd unit lost their identity.

Back to the upcoming season, if we assume that Brown and Farmar can’t play together, the 2nd unit looks like this: Farmar/Brown, Vujacic, Walton, Odom, big man.  Certainly better than the end of last year due to Odom’s return, but it still seems like a bunch of pieces that don’t really fit.  Farmar can’t really run unless he develops the one man fast break mentality (and success) of Tony Parker or Devin Harris.  The team is still left to run the triangle in the half court, and while Walton and Odom know what they are doing in that regard, the unit still lacks focus on the offensive end.  The offense for that unit seems most likely to be dump it in to the big man almost every time, and if the big can’t deliver, or if the rest of the team can’t get the proper entry pass, things will be stagnant.

But if Brown and Farmar play together?  Now, the 2nd unit looks like this: Farmar, Brown, Walton, Odom, big man.  Suddenly, the 2nd unit has that fast break magic once again.  If Brown can do one thing (and yes, I know he can do more than one thing) in this league, it’s finish at the rim.  You can’t tell me that the idea of Farmar to Brown on the fast break doesn’t make you salivate at the possibilities.  Walton’s not a great finisher, but he’s a pretty good passer, especially on the break.  Odom can go coast to coast whenever he wants to.  Gasol runs the floor better than any big man in the NBA, and Bynum isn’t at all shabby as a secondary trailer if he’s the pivot at the time, as he also runs the floor pretty well.  It’s just my opinion, but I think that unit has much of the same mojo and success that the Bench Mob became so known for from 2007 to the first part of last season.

The odd man out in this scenario is clearly Sasha Vujacic.  This may or may not be a good thing.  If Sasha continues his struggles of last year, I don’t think anybody would have a problem with his playing time decreasing to spot minutes.  However, if Sasha can return to the way of the Machine, he’s definitely a player that you want out on the court.  He’s the best shooter on the team.  Even last year, when everyone knew he was struggling badly with his shot, he still shot better than all but Fisher and Radmonivic (yes, his percentage was better than Kobe and Ariza).  If he can re-discover the game that got him his contract, he should be played, and that pretty much destroys this whole scenario, right?  Again, I ask why? 

What if the Lakers throw out a three guard lineup as their 2nd unit?  Now, it looks like this:  Farmar, Brown, Vujacic, Odom, big man.  Now, not only is the fast break mojo back, but you’ve got Sasha ready to punish any team that focuses on defending the paint in transition.  Remember how devastating an offensive force Sasha can be?  He almost single handedly kept the Lakers in game 3 of the NBA Finals against Boston two seasons ago.  Defensively, Sasha is much more of a liability at the 3 than Brown is at the 2.  He’s got the height to be able to deal with that position, but his classic Euro physique would allow him to be out-muscled by 90% of the leagues small forwards.  In the event that the other team has the ability to take advantage of that matchup, this lineup wouldn’t necessarily be the best idea, and Walton can easily fix that problem.  But if the other team is trotting out an offensive liability at that position on the floor?  There are more than a few teams who have athletic, but offensively challenged, wing men, and as long as Odom and the big man do their job and clean the glass, it is conceivable for Sasha to provide more of an advantage on offense than he does a disadvantage on defense, thus making the whole situation worthwhile.

Obviously, that whole scenario requires that Sasha re-discover his game, which is a pretty big if.  It could also theoretically work if Adam Morrison re-discovers his game, but that is one of the biggest if’s in the NBA (besides, even those he’s got much more size, Morrison could be an even bigger liability at the 3 than Sasha would be).  But regardless, it seems to me that the Lakers’ best option for a 2nd unit involves both Brown and Farmar together, flying down the court and filling up the scoreboard.  What do you think?

Poll
What 5 man unit do you think would be the most effective for the Lakers off the bench?
Farmar, Vujacic, Walton, Odom, Gasol/Bynum
230 votes
Farmar, Brown, Walton, Odom, Gasol/Bynum
1425 votes
Farmar, Brown, Vujacic, Odom, Gasol/Bynum
680 votes
Brown, Vujacic, Walton, Odom, Gasol/Bynum
405 votes

2740 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 59 comments |

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Comments

Display:

DAMN!!!

Looking at that Farmar, Brown, Walton, LO, Center combo just made me drool on my keyboard. I can definetely see that working because of all the reasons you mentioned. It also fixes the Farmar problem (complaining about playing time, leading a team) as he will probably be the floor leader most of the time if hes with that unit. And Brown can easily guard and second unit SG because even if hes a couple inches shorter, he can just body them up. And I’m sorry but I really dont feel Sasha will regain his 07’ form but I think he wont be as atrocious as last yr (he better not be). Great article C.A.! Keep em’ coming!!

P.S.: What day does training camp open, and I know the day before it opens, theres like a day when all the players and the coach have press conferences. I’d like to know when those days are if anyone knows.

by desecrator09 on Sep 21, 2009 12:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Training camp starts on the 29th. I tried to find a link to verify it but I could not. They call the day you’re talking about “media day”.

Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine

by olf on Sep 21, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey everyone

Heres something thats off topic but will be sure to get your blood boiling. Let the comments fly!!

From 104.3 The Fan in Denver:

K-Mart on what he learned from POs: "That you have to play on a consistent basis throughout the regular season and just better your position. Just learn from the things we did right last year and learn from things we did wrong, but we had a great run. I think guys know that we were right there and everybody in that locker room and in the organization feels we were a better team than the Lakers. Everybody feels we were a better team than the Lakers and no one can tell me anything different. No one."

by desecrator09 on Sep 21, 2009 1:32 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm not really bothered by it

If I were a Denver fan, I might feel the same. It was tied at two games a piece, and the Nuggets felt like they were tougher and felt like they lost it and the Lakers didn’t win it due to last minute bad passes in Game 1 and Game 3. But Lakers were better, clearly mentally they were better, and Billups fell off in game 6. The Lakers have Kobe Bryant, who never misses a beat and is an assassin in crunchtime. I always just say “who won the series? ok, I was just wondering.”

by pharoah on Sep 21, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Here’s my list of teams that think they could have/would have beat us last year if only:

Portland – if only they had made it past Houston . .
Houston – if only Yao didn’t go down. . .
Denver – if only you covered it already
Spurs – if only Duncan & Ginobili were healthy. . .
Boston – if only KG didn’t go down. . .

Haven’t checked on the Magic or Cavs so I can only guess:
Cavs – if only they made it past the Magic. They were 40-2 at home last year so . . .
Magic — if only Courtney could make a layup. . .
 
It doesn’t bother me too much. Just kind of goes with the territory.

Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine

by olf on Sep 21, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

ur right

just a pro athletes mentality…imagine where jordan would be if he thought everyone else was better than him…i guess theyre just trying to be competitive…
from my standpoint
 i disagree with Kmart’s statement
Lakers overwhelmed them by matching their physicality in each game
beating them by 27 on their home floor in game 6
plus they were better mentally too…in the clutch, they made all the plays need to win the games and denver made critical errors…

"That is not how you play the game!!!" -Jack in the Box

by shaqfor3 on Sep 23, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

for the record. I disagree with all of them.

Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine

by olf on Sep 24, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would expect nothing less

Professional athletes HAVE TO think that way in order to be successful. If you have doubts about your ability, or think that your opponent is better than you are, it’s a huge mental disadvantage.

I’d be disappointed if Kenyon didn’t think the Nuggets were the best team in basketball. Just because you think it doesn’t make it so. However, if you don’t think it, it definitely isn’t so.

by C.A. Clark on Sep 21, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

i just let the results speak for themselves

i think the best team in basketball ususally wins, thats my argument.

and of course the lakers won so that must mean….they were the best team

by true_lakerfan on Sep 21, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

K-Fart needs to just give credit where credit is due. If a team defeats yours in a 7 game series AND goes on to win the title, that should just prove they were the better team. Hes just still mad that everytime his wack team runs into Kobe and company, they get sent packing.

by desecrator09 on Sep 21, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

“Hes just still mad that everytime his wack team runs into Kobe and company, they get sent packing.” i think hedo feels the same way too

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions

by Czheck on Sep 23, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but I have to pull a Zaig here

The best team in basketball usually wins, this is true.

But because the Lakers won, that does not mean they were the best team.

As your first statement implies, the best team sometimes does not win.

So sometimes the team that does not win is the best team.

But that hasn’t happened in the Finals since the Pistons won, heheheheh.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Sep 22, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

If you were pulling a Zaig....

You would have told him he was an idiot, blind homer, and not worth the time it takes to type your reply.

Other than that, very Zaig.

Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny

by pslakerfan on Sep 23, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

How about Zaigish? lol that has a better ring to it.

I hope he knows this all in good fun… : )

"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 23, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

I dont even know wtf you guys are sayin so…… no comment

by desecrator09 on Sep 23, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was sayin

I think you misunderstood me there. That was a quote by Kenyon Martin in my first post. Im confused lol. Were you responding to me or the guy above you?

by desecrator09 on Sep 23, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

above

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Sep 23, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna agree with Clark on this one

Nothing wrong with the way K. Mart thinks. You have to play competitive sports to really get it I think

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Sep 21, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sasha needs to go, unplug the machine.

Really, the only people who like Sasha are the girls. And that’s fine, he has long flowy hair and he’s got an accent. Understandable. But honestly, he’s turned into garbage. Brown is getting better at shooting and if Ariza can turn around his percentages as drastically as he did in the post season, then Brown can do it now. We need to have a point guard for the post-fisher days, so we should try to acclamate the best point guard into a leading role.

Sasha needs to go, unplug the machine.

by pharoah on Sep 21, 2009 1:41 PM PDT reply actions  

NOT TRUE!

I beg your pardon on this, but not ALL girls like Sasha lol

I liked him better when he had his short hair and was clean shaven. The pubescent looked works for Sasha, the Fabio / Aldous Snow look doesn’t (actually, it doesn’t work on anyone tbh).

But that’s beside the point.

Sasha really just needs to go back to basics and what he was really good at (and maybe switch back to the 07-08 thin-man headband he was using): 3-point shooting.

Last year, he had his minutes reduced, thus whenever he was on the court, he tried to do too much, he tried to prove he was a good backup PG (not the case), instead of just doing what got him his contract. In short, I think with Ariza’s emergence last year, Sasha had a lot of his confidence taken away, coupled that with his persistent ankle injury, and his poor shooting, he just kinda became a liability on defense and offense.

There’s no doubt, he’s a hard worker though. He’s always on in the gym working on his shot, but like I said, Sasha just needs to focus on shooting 3s and defending. That’s it. No more fancy PUJITS or whatever he was trying to do last year.

I’m not yet ready to say bye to Sasha only because I think if he can get his 3-point shooting back, it would help the team sooo much, especially since our team is in a dire need of a reliable 3-point shooter now that TA’s gone.

Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.

by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 21, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

i agree he needs to work on his game

it seems as though teams have him figured out.
they guard him close on the 3pt line, but once he takes a dribble they give him some space to shoot cuz he is more of a catch and shoot player than a dribble and shoot.

by true_lakerfan on Sep 21, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Machine. Camp. Shoot.

Worked pretty well in the 07-08 season.

And I think some announcer (shock! I know) said it best that Sasha should just camp behind the 3-point line and wait for Kobe or Pau to pass him the ball. Really, let Kobe or Pau be the “decoy” because as soon as Kobe cuts into the paint, the defenders will be drawn in to help cover Kobe (or Pau) and Kobe dishes to Sasha for the wide open easy 3.

There was this game in the 07-08 playoffs (might of been against the Celtics or the Spurs) where Sasha tried to create his own shot and his horribly clanged out and Kobe was like WHUH?! But the next trip down, Kobe draws the defenders, passes to Sasha for the smooth 3 and nothing but net.

Simply put, Sasha should just stick to 3-point shooting and maybe dunking.

Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.

by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 22, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

hes allowed one dunk a season i think, lol

i cant really remember too many dunks of his.

he does work best when he camps out on the 3, his problem is instead of passing when hes being guarded on the 3, sometimes he tries to create his own shot and thats where i have a problem.

by true_lakerfan on Sep 22, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

i agree

clean shaven, short hair works best :)

but back to the point. If ariza can turn his 3-point shooting around, it would be even easier for sasha to re-find his shot. and let’s not forget that sasha was a pretty decent defender back in 07-08.

i’m almost thinking the lakers should just play more on a “matchup” basis now, rather than have a hiearchy for the reserves.

by Nostance on Sep 21, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol, thats funny cuz they call me sasha at work

although now i find it more insulting, lol, unless he steps his game up.

he needs to get away from reaching so much and just stay infront of his man. he relies too much on slepping for the ball anf he gets called alot for reaching.

by true_lakerfan on Sep 21, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Goodness!

true_lakerfan=bearded lady! Trying to imagine if this is hilarious or horrific…

by altree on Sep 26, 2009 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sasha was garbage for a long time...

Before he broke out two seasons ago. Then, last season, as you said he went back to being garbage. I’m not saying he definitely is capable of returning to 07-08 Sasha, but it’s not as if there isn’t a precedent for him making dramatic improvement over the course of an offseason.

One reason I’m hesitant to just throw Sasha away is that he fills a role that no one else on the team provides. He’s the only pure shooter the Lakers have. Even when he was terrible last year, teams still respected his shot enough to rarely leave him alone to help out on other people. We’ve got some decent shooting on the team outside of Sasha, but there’s no doubt in my mind that he has the best shot on the team, in terms of mechanics and ability.

If he can’t get his head right, none of that matters and he needs to not see the court. But we’re talking about a guy who was getting crunch time minutes in the Finals two years ago. A strong performance from the Machine should definitely put him back in the rotation.

by C.A. Clark on Sep 21, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, a bit harsh isn't it?

Look, injury can really mess with a shooter’s rhythm. So I think we should give him one more year, and after that, throw him to the lions.

Besides, Sasha leads the team in FT percentages, so not EVERY aspect of his shooting went to hell last year…

by Mike1204 on Sep 21, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yet he still shot a higher percentage from 3 than anybody still on the team except Fisher

I can’t emphasize that enough. In a year we all thought he played terribly, he still shot 1.2% higher than Kobe from 3 pt range over the course of the season, and 4% higher than Trevor Ariza (obviously not in the playoffs).

by C.A. Clark on Sep 21, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

but sometimes

catch and shoot is enough.

however, we should still expect our catch & shoot guy to have at least around a 0.4 at the 3.

by Nostance on Sep 21, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

if your refering to fish's shot

that was a catch and shoot situation.

but when the game isnt on the line ppl stick to him on the 3pt line then shade off him to dare him to dribble and shoot.

i dont know the stats but im sure he has a terrible percentage when he tries an off the dribble shot

by true_lakerfan on Sep 21, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm upset the poll did not have my favored combo

Farmar, Vujacic, Walton/Powell, Morrison, Mbenga

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Sep 21, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions  

Missed Farmer, Brown, Vujacic, Walton, Odom which we have seen before

by Svedish Chef on Sep 21, 2009 6:26 PM PDT reply actions  

The only reason we ever saw that lineup is because Bynum was out.

If we have both a healthy Bynum and a healthy Gasol, the amount of time where one of them isn’t on the court will be very small, unless it’s garbage time.

by C.A. Clark on Sep 21, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sasha sucks and Brown is overrated

Sasha stunk it up from start to finish last year, I think he will do more of the same next year. I also have serious doubts about Brown. He did so well but in such a small amount of time. I think when he gets more minutes his play will fall. No way he can keep up his game over 82 games with extended minutes.

Farmar has everything to gain and everything to lose. I think he will do great, especially since it’s his contract year. Farmar, to me, has way more pure talent then Sasha and Brown. If Farmar can lay back on the 3 (and make it when he takes it) and penetrate and dish more (use his speed as a strength) then I see Farmar as the clear cut back up. Biggest problem with Farmar, his D. He can’t get burned every time.

Lamar = Laker for Life...Go Pads...Go Bolts

by mrbarneydangles on Sep 21, 2009 9:03 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL

We dont need Brown to play like a friggin all star like you want him to be. Hes just gotta play solid defense which I dont see him having a problem doing all season. And I’m sure if he gets wide open 3s. he’ll drain them pretty often. I agree with you on Famar though, he’ll have a great yr and shut the haters up. Same with Bynum, hes gonna be a beast.

by desecrator09 on Sep 21, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t want Brown to be an all-star I just want him to play well. I just don’t see it happening though. I think the more he plays, the more his weaknesses will get exposed. I hope Shannon has a great year, I just have some doubts. I also don’t see Brown shooting over 40% from downtown.

Lamar = Laker for Life...Go Pads...Go Bolts

by mrbarneydangles on Sep 21, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I like Shannon personally but he’s got a long way to go to be all that we need. I do hope he gets there though. And maybe he (and Farmar) can get us through another year.

Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine

by olf on Sep 22, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

His strengths outweigh his weaknesses

I really dont that many weaknessses in his game that will significantly affect the team though. I mean he may not have great ball handling but thats not gonna affect us since hes not gonna be the ball handler on the floor anyway. I just dont see what you mean that you think hes not gonna play well. What weakness in his game will severely affect us on offense?

by desecrator09 on Sep 22, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

His shot

And, no he might not shoot that high a percentage but if he gets wide open 3s, I think he’ll make them more times than you think. When he came over last season, PJ had said that he has a great form to his shot and release. He’ll be fine.

by desecrator09 on Sep 22, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, his shot will suffer

It’s hard to shot the 3 at a high percentage. Sasha can’t shoot the 3 consistently and Sasha is a “pure” shooter. I don’t think Shannon’s athleticism will suffer but I do believe his shooting will be down and his turnovers up.

Lamar = Laker for Life...Go Pads...Go Bolts

by mrbarneydangles on Sep 22, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not the turnovers

Hes not gonna handle the ball when hes on the floor so i doubt you’ll see him turn it over often.

by desecrator09 on Sep 22, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Farmar

His biggest problem is his maturity. He doesn’t know what his role is when he’s on the floor with, which players. He doesn’t know whether to run the floor, to create his own shot, or drive and dish. Farmar really needs to listen to the coaches and take his lumps.

His defense during the playoffs was much better than during the regular season. He finally got the message: The PGs role in the SSZ defense is to deny lane penetration and mildly contest outside shots. Let the teams try and beat you on the perimeter, if they do, good for them.

Brown is a fantastic player. The difference between him and Farmar was that he listened to the coaches and played conservatively when running the point. He is also as good or a better defender at times.

by 81 Witness on Sep 21, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I voted for Farmar/Brown/Walton/LO/Gasol-Bynum

Many Laker fans are in favor of Farmar over Brown. I have nothing against Farmar but if Brown becomes a reliable 3pt shooter then it’s over for Farmar because brown is virtually better than Farmar in every other aspect of the game.

I cannot vote for Vujacic. The PG is position is important. But I think that the Lakers need a much better back up for Kobe than Sasha.

"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 22, 2009 7:29 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

+100000

agreed
he was awful from 3 pt land last year (08-09)
and his defense is shit
alot commentators say hes a great defender
but all i ever see him is pick up 3 fouls in a minute and whine to the refs on every call whenever he comes into the game
if he wants to stay on the team, he obviously needs to get better with the 3 pointer
and also it wouldnt hurt at all if he got a mid range game going like 15-17 ft shots
oh and cut the stupid hair….its so fucking annoying!!
…if he doesnt improve this coming season we should make a trade…

"That is not how you play the game!!!" -Jack in the Box

by shaqfor3 on Sep 23, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

he slaps at the ball too much and doesnt move his feet anymore

he needs to quit reaching so damn much, and worry about staying infront of his man

by true_lakerfan on Sep 24, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ammo

I’m sorry but why is it sooooo unbelievable that ammo can regain some of his playing ability? Remember that this guy was the…wait, is this right, the 3rd overall pick in the draft just a few years ago!?!?!?! Anyway, coming off of injury and regaining full health, perhaps he will have a breakout year. This is his year to do so, since he has only 3 years in the league. Would it be such a surprise that his first year he was too inexperienced and his last 2 he was injured, and now he is back? The 3rd pick has some skills, that’s why he was the 3rd pick. Also, his skills were definitely not based on athleticism. And basketball is different than football, usually dominant college players continue their dominance in the NBA.

I don’t think that it’s a stretch to see ammo turn in a surprisingly great year. we’ll see.

by plyka on Sep 23, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions  

AMMO = Adam Morrison

Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny

by pslakerfan on Sep 23, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't neccesarily disagree with you

But you are making all the wrong points to get there.

1st of all, there are a great deal of huge bust draft picks as high or higher than Ammo. Kwame, Jason Williams, Darko, Tshitzvili just to name a few.

Dominant college players turning into dominant pro players … That’s just not true. Take a look at any All-Americans list from the last 5-10 years. There are definitely a few players whose games have translated to the big stage (Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony), but the best players in college from a few years ago are mostly role players in today’s NBA.

Lastly, his skills not being based on athleticism is a detriment, not an advantage. He was able to be dominant in college because he wasn’t playing against superior athletes every night. In the NBA, his lack of both speed and strength mean that he will have a ton of difficulty creating his own shot, something he thrived on in college.

There don’t think there’s any chance Ammo ever lives up to his 3rd pick billing (3rd picks should be borderline All stars theoretically). However, I do think he could carve out a niche as a role player similar to the type of success found by Kyle Korver and Wally Sczerbiak. That’s pretty much his ceiling, in my opinion.

by C.A. Clark on Sep 23, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol Tshitzvilli, the name explains it all.

Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.

by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 24, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I abstain from vote.....

At this point, before training camp even begins, I would not discount AMMO. I’m really pulling for this guy, because if he is healthy, he is a MUCH better all-around offensive player than Sasha or Luke. And, he may be able to play both the 2 and 3, depending on the match-up. He can shoot with Sasha, especially the wide open looks he can get with the Lakers. In fact, he is more of a “machine” than Sasha will ever be if he can stay healthy. He has a good mid-range game, can drive to the basket and score off the dribble, post-up smaller 2-guards and is a very good passer. He is the type of player that can get his own shot and make plays for others. Even in the NBA, 6-8 players with those skills are still rare. Granted, he hasn’t done it on a consistent basis yet in his NBA career, but the talent is there. The wide open shots and playmaking opportunities he can get with the Lakers are totally different than playing with the Bobcats. He could add another dimension to the Lakers offensively off the bench. I know what Sasha and Luke can do..and when healthy, both are good players. But, I would want to see how AMMO settles in before answering your question.

I do like your analysis and the idea you present of Farmar and Brown at 1 and 2 to recapture the advantage we had in the up-tempo game from the bench players during the early part of last season. You’re right in that a similar tempo would be difficult to re-create (with a number of plays finished at the basket versus just jacking up 3-point shots like you’ll get from Sasha) from the other available combinations off the bench. That said, I like the thought of Farmar, Brown, resurgent AMMO, LO, and Gasol (or other big).

by dforce on Sep 25, 2009 11:46 AM PDT reply actions  

dont forget sasha's D

No one appreciates Sasha’s defense. He is often guarding a hungry shooting guard trying to prove himself or get a contract (scorers are nasty people), and he inevitably gets inside that dude’s head with tough backcourt defense. yeah, he gets fouls called, but sometimes, especially for bench players, fouls are not the worst thing that can happen. I bet he gets more 8 second/offensive fouls called on his opponent than any other bench player in the league. Shots come and go. Paxson had off nights. Kerr…well I don’t think I’ve ever see Kerr miss a shot, but you get my drift. Don’t throw Sasha out with the bath water. He is more than a shooter.

But DO NOT PLAY HIM AT THE THREE!!! He will not only get killed, the three doesn’t offer the same three point shooting opportunities that the one and the two do in the triangle. They are there, but not as often. Especially if the one and two are both shooters. Then the three becomes a slasher in the triangle. Remember Robert Horry (or Scottie Pippen) down the lane from the wing for a dunk? That is the kind of opportunity you get from the three in the triangle, and Sasha, in spite of his name, is no slasher. Yes he has dunked on some folks, much to Kobe’s amusement, but more often than not, he won’t finish that play. He’s not a disher, so what’s the point. Put Luke out there and let Sasha cool his jets and learn for one year what happens when you don’t perform. This will toughen him mentally. We’ve got a potential stojakovic on our hands, and we should handle him carefully.

But Farmar and Brown are both ready NOW.

BTW, you neglect the potential scenario of a different starting lineup:

Kobe, Testy, Candy, PaGa, and Andy.

This leaves Fish as essentially an assistant coach, but knowing Phil, he would work him in to the end of games, because you DO need speed off the bench when you starting five is that big. But I think it also means more minutes for Mbenga (who has his moments) and Powell (who can shoot lights out midrange).

You got me riled up!!!! Here we go!!

by wale on Sep 28, 2009 9:43 AM PDT reply actions  

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