Re-evaluating Jordan Farmar
by C.A. Clark on Sep 17, 2009 1:49 PM PDT
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Parades and trophies aside, no Laker had a rougher 08-09 than Jordan Farmar. Many fans, myself included, were extremely down on him by regular season’s end, and his limited success in the playoffs only partially tore down the wall of negativity surrounding him. There are a fair number of Lakers fans more excited about Shannon Brown than Farmar at this point. A quick re-cap of his season:
At the beginning of the season, Farmar was the clear cut first guard off the bench. He played well to start the season, posting decent stats (8.5 points, 1.5 steals a game, on 42% shooting). He was struggling with his shot a little bit, but was doing a great job of pushing the pace with the 2nd unit, which was providing a really nice change of tempo at the time. Then, in late December, he busted up his knee, bad enough to need surgery. He was expected to miss 6-8 weeks, but he rushed back in just under 5. He started off well enough, but it quickly became clear as the season went on that he was not the same player, either physically or mentally. Mistakes started becoming more frequent, his shot disappeared. By the end of March, he was down to 5 points a game on 35% shooting. His PER dropped from 15.2 to 9.9 from last season to this season. Ouch. To compound matters further, the Lakers picked up Shannon Brown as a throw away in a salary cap deal, and it turned out the dude could play, so he started challenging Farmar for minutes. They ended up splitting time almost exactly in the playoffs.
For me, the main thing that caused me to become so negative towards Farmar as a Laker was his attitude, not his performance. I can deal with a player struggling to find his game (to a point, Sasha … to a point), but I can’t suffer a player who’s focus is lacking. There’s no way to statistically prove this, but Farmar had to have led the team in "WTF was that pass?" moments last year. And the look on his face after each one of those turnovers was like he was mad at the world because he just threw a dumb pass. Phil Jackson noted his poor attitude towards the end of the season, saying that Farmar "needs to realize that playing time in this league is earned, not given."
I was thinking about Farmar recently, and as often occurs with the passage of time, I found my judgment of his play softened. I began to see many of the problems of his season in a different light, taking his, and the team’s, mitigating circumstances into account. The result makes me much more willing to jump back on the Jordan Farmar bandwagon, although I have to admit I’m certainly not entirely back on it yet.
Let’s re-play that season recap, this time from
You’re a young, confident point guard, coming off of a season which was, if not quite break-out, certainly an announcement of possible future success. You are the backup to a veteran who is long in the tooth, and the heir apparent to become the starter for one of the best franchises in the NBA, and it also happens to be your home-town team that you grew up rooting for. You start the season reasonably well, and then you get hurt. For the first time. Ever. You’ve never had surgery before, you’ve never had an injury more serious than an ankle sprain before. You work your ass off to get back, declaring yourself ready to come back in nearly half the time that was originally expected. You get thrown right back into the middle of things, because the team was really struggling to fill the point guard minutes without you (Fisher averaged 38 minutes a game while Farmar was out, compared to 30 over the course of the season, including that stretch). You find yourself not being able to do the things you are accustomed to doing, and you don’t know why, because you’ve never been hurt before. Your shot suffers and your confidence starts to suffer. Your team trades for another guy who plays your position, and he starts stealing your playing time. You still lack the explosiveness that makes you a special player, and now you feel a little betrayed that the team is feeling things out with this other guy, especially considering that you were put in this position at least in part because the team needed you back before you were truly ready to be back. Even if you didn’t know it at the time, the team should have prepared you better for a return from your injury, letting you re-adjust to things slowly, instead of throwing you to the wolves.
Now, I’m not saying this justifies the way he played last year, especially his attitude. But it certainly sheds a bit of a different light on things, and provides a picture that allows me to understand his actions, if not excuse them. And it certainly seemed to my eyes that Farmar began to "get it" again come playoff time. Even though he was splitting minutes with Brown 50:50 at that point, his attitude, demeanor, swagger, focus, and quality of play all increased. If he went through a rough stretch because of his injury, I can forgive him for that, especially since it seems to have been the first time he’d ever been through that process.
If you’ve ever had a serious injury, you probably know just how frustrating of a process it can be. If you haven’t, here’s a story. When I was in college, I played a lot of basketball, 10-15 hours a week. At one point, I pinched my sciatic nerve, and couldn’t play for about 4 months. After that, it was another two months before I could play without pain and got back into the type of shape I was in before my injury. And those six months was one of the worst periods of my life. I was irritable, quick to anger, and not all that fun to be around (three anti-qualities I pride myself on not having most of the time).
So where does that leave us in relation to Mr. Farmar. I’m firmly in the Wait and See category, but I have my "Welcome back,
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I like Jordan.
I just don’t think he fits in the Lakers future planns as long as Phil is the head coach. I would like for him (or Shannon) to push Fish aside, but even if Farmar does, I think he just improves his trade value. We already know that we are good enough to win the Chip without too much production from the PG position. I think Jordan will have a bounce back year, then get traded. He’s not our PG of the future. I’ve been saying this for 2 years now, and I think Shannon’s 2 year deal confirmed that.
i want both
i like the different aspects that they bring to the team.
farmar pushes the pace
brown brings a more defensive type pace.
i feel this keeps other teams on their toes because they have to adjust to the style
Good read
Good read, but I disagree with some of your comments:
“His limited success in the playoffs only partially tore down the wall of negativity surrounding him.”
How quickly we forget… If it wasn’t for him and (Brown’s) play, we would have lost the series against Houston. He helped us win a game against Utah. He helped keep it close against Orlando’s record breaking game 2.
I hope his change of attitude heading into the postseason encourages him to condition and improve his knee during the off-season.
More proof to his inability following the mid-season injury: The Lakers run a play for him coming off a double-screen hitting an alley-oop. He maybe connected on one after the surgery, while before the injury, it was a gimme.
I disagree with your disagreement =)
I’ve forgotten nothing about his performances in the playoffs. That’s why his success was limited instead of non-existent. He certainly had a few nice games, and that quote you chose was suppose to show Farmar’s play in the playoffs to be a positive thing.
But if you look at the poll results, 3 out of 4 Lakers fans either don’t want or don’t believe in Farmar as the PG of the future, so there’s still a fair amount of anti Farmar sentiment out there.
I prefer Shannon
They both have something in common that really bugs me. Neither has shown they can shoot the outside shot. Granted that Fisher chocked up in the playoffs except game 4 of the Finals. But the difference between Fisher and them two is that in crucial situations Fisher has come through. I don’t see that with either one of them. But I also have to add that Farmar has been given plenty of time to improve and to show what he can do and Shannon has yet to be given that opportunity. Although farmar might be a faster pg when he has the ball Jordan is faster and stronger defensively. So if Shannon can improve his long distance shooting he is my guy. Outside of that, the Lakers should go after Navarro next year. He can really shot.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 17, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions
actually...
Actually Shannon had a VERY good outside shot. Didnt you watch the playoff games he played in? He was knocking down the open J pretty consistently for a dude who didnt play alot in the season to get a rythm going. Id say he already has a solid outside shot but I think he will get even more consistent with it this season.
by desecrator09 on Sep 17, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes I did watch the playoffs
But Shannon and Farmar can only knock down shots when the game isn’t on the line or when the Lakers are making a run. Hell, even Morrison could shoot in those instances. But again, the comparison that I was making was between them and Fisher’s ability to hit during crucial moments in the playoffs. I did not see either one of them do that. The only other player that did consistently besides Kobe and Fisher was Ariza. In crunch time I would not want either one of them to have to ball.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 17, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
because
well thats cuz they havent even been in that situation before yet but Shannon did hit some pretty clutch shots in the Utah series and also in the Denver series. Go back and watch those games and you’ll see what I mean.
by desecrator09 on Sep 17, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
in limited minutes
ShanWOW/UPS shot reasonably well, actually. Not bad at all. And both players have nice leapers, although Brown’s is out-of-this-world high.
By the way, @ C.A. Clark: Pretty sure it’s sciatic, not psyatic. Took me a while to figure out what you were talking about. :) My worst injury was a torn ligament in my right ring finger. Took about six weeks to heal, most of which were spent in a splint. And I couldn’t really control it for the next two or so. I agree, very frustrating.
You are correct, sir.
While I must own up to my mistake, I will say that google failed me badly. I knew I was unclear about the actual spelling, so I took my best guess (which was syatic) and the Did you mean brought up psyatic, hence my failure.
no offense intended
Just thought it would be easier for people to look up if they had the correct spelling.
OT
Henry Abbot is a joke
I wondered how long it would be...
…before someone posted a link to this. I don’t find what he says to be that outrageous (and I say that as a Kobe fan).
Although…the notion that Kobe should ever have passed to Kwame on that epic facial over Nash is laughable, to say the least, to anyone who ever watched any of that season. Hands up if you ever saw Kwame miss a lay-up by three feet or more.
I thought so.
The idea behind it isn't outrageous
But it can apply to so much more. Instead, he singled out Kobe and then ended it with the not so subtle jab.
By definition, most “poster worthy” dunks result from a help defender coming over but not getting the job done. That help defender most likely left his man wide open near the hoop. So you could make a case that a good chunk of all “poster worthy” dunks are technically bad basketball decisions. Check out this Dwayne Wade video and you will see at least 3 situations that are similar to what Abbot is calling selfish behavior in Kobe.
There’s absolutely no mention in his piece of the idea that a lot of dunks which challenge a help defender can be considered selfish, and that lots of players do so regardless. Instead, it’s “Kobe is selfish because Kobe didn’t pass in this situation.”
And seconding what Brian said, the idea that a pass of any kind to Kwame is a smarter basketball decision than Kobe attempting even a difficult dunk attempt is laughable.
Honestly, I’ve never thought much of the Abbot bias against Kobe before. I’ve always thought that fans were being over-sensitive about things. I’ve never seen him write something that manifests said bias as clearly as this piece did.
“I would rather take my chances with kobe shooting left handed from 3/4 court behind his back while on a unicycle then kwame brown catching a wide open pass and dunking.”
Just goes to show that Henry doesn't really watch basketball.
Who in their right mind would ever pass the ball to Kwame in a crucial situation like that one was. How many times did he blow wide open looks and miss a gimme, or take so long, some 6’ guard could get there to “foul” him so he could miss. Kwame is that guy you yell at for wide open lay ups knowing he’ll miss it.
There’s a reason Phil used to say “Here kitty, kitty….”
two issues
1. If Henry had clearly stated his intention was to explain why people think he’s selfish, rather than to explain why he’s selfish, that would have improved things.
2. The plays in the clip weren’t the right ones to make his point. They were convenient and timely, but not appropriate to his point. And he had no business referencing Kwame Brown; that just made all the Kobe fans ignore him all the more.
oh yes he did
The one over Ben Wallace, right? The best part is watching Nick the Quick’s reaction. I love that. It was like watching UPS’s block—err, foul—on a breakaway where he basically just grabbed the ball from the defender 12 feet in the air. The reaction from the bench (which actually was filled with the starters) when they watched that was classic.
Here it is...
There are about 10 dunks of his on this video and the one on Ben Wallace is the last one. That dunk is my favorite one. Check out where he takes off from…amazing. If you look for it on Youtube the quality is really poor.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2009/09/14/nba_091409_kobe_dunks.nba/
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Sep 18, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
here's another one
This is the one by Kobe on Dwight Howard in Howard’s rookie season (04-05). Most clips of this dunk are of poor quality, but this one, from jalenrose.com, is pretty good:
Dwight said that was the 1st time he was ever dunked on.
He called it his real “Welcome to the NBA” moment. So to speak.
here's Shannon Brown's block
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2zyWVieESg
Wait for the bench reaction near the end of the clip. Priceless—especially Kobe.
It's the intent of the article.
It was written solely to bash Kobe and to influence the minds of readers. If that makes Kobe selfish, then throw in the whole NBA.
Henry Abbott fancies himself a respectable journalist with integrity and these constant subtle (and not so subtle) attacks are juvenile and petty.
The Kwame mention made the post completely ludicrous.
He just like the rest of us.
Homers with a bias. The difference is we don’t stand on our pulpits and preach about integrity, then ignore it.
...and that's what makes Bill Simmons different.
He’s a joke writer who knows he’s not a journalist or reporter and makes his hatred a known fact. Even if he gets things wrong all of the time.
Imagine if I had an article. KG and PP would get blasted all of the time
Speaking of Bill
It’s lines like this that keep me reading (even though he hates the Lakers):
You gotta love that Mariotti line.
what doesn't make sense to me is...
…Henry Abbott takes a small sample size of Kobe’s highlights and uses it to call him selfish. What if the video had different footage? What if it had the behind the back to Pau Gasol in the finals this year? What if it had the Shaq-Kobe alley oop? Could we use that video and call him the most selfless player in the NBA? No, obviously not. The same goes for footage of dunks. Kobe is not selfish in these situations to the point where it hurts the team. How often has Kobe gone up for a hard dunk like this and actually gotten stuffed at the rim? Not very often. If he has to pass, he makes the pass, and he makes that play quite often. You could make a 20 minute highlight video of Kobe dishing exclusively off the drive to the rim, no problem.
Not only are his claims ridiculous, but his reasoning is totally unfounded as well.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Abbott also says that "run that play a hundred times and whats better for the team?"
I challenge that statement whole heartedly. Again, I refer you to the question of how often does Kobe fail hard going to the rim like he does in these videos. For all the dunks and blocks Kobe’s missed, you can easily think about all the dunks / layups or resulting free throws his bigmen have missed as a result of his passes. They EASILY cancel each other out…and like people have said when Kobe had a bigman like Brown under the rim…pass…are you serious? We know you want the Lakers to lose Abbott, but come ON.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Or if that play was run 100 times, there is also a great chance that Kobe passes it if not given the opportunity to score easily himself.
Henry has taken a petty grudge, added it to a mortal mindset, multiplied it and ran.
It’s easy for normal folk like us to think the pass is the best play, but we can’t jump out of the building either. So, if a dunk is there, you take it. It’s a safer bet than a possible fumbled pass or late foul.
Henry is good for links, but his actual basketball insight (especially when added to a grudge) is lacking. It’s usually Kevin Arnovitz’ posts that breakdown the game well.
Kurt called him out on it on FB&G
http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/09/18/henry-abbott-misses-the-point/
Obviously, I am a fan of Henry Abbott and his blog TrueHoop, if not I would not be part of his network. He does good reporting, he is smart and considerate, he asks questions (like about William Wesley) that nobody else is asking.
But he also has blind spots. We all do. And it is hard to admit them at times. Henry is a Blazers fan and therefore understandably has Lakers issues. I can understand that. I let some things go because I have blind spots as well.
But, maybe because it’s the off-season, Henry looked at a recent compilation of Kobe Bryant dunks — put together by the NBA, not some Lakers fan — from over the course of his career and decided that was cause again to bring up the selfish card. He admits he is missing the point then goes ahead. Frankly, that is just Henry not able to help himself.
If you want, I could spend and 20 minutes on YouTube and compile a video of Michael Jordan dunking when he decided not to pass to an open teammate. With a little work I bet you could do the same thing with Steve Nash (well, not the dunking part but the taking shots when he had other guys open part). Frankly, no star player is who he is if he is not a little bit selfish.
What made those dunks worthy of being on a highlight reel is that they were over people. They were dramatic. Kobe has at time taken that liberty. But I think Gatinho said it best:
Truth be told, young Kobe had obvious moments where his will-to-win and his supreme confidence in his game led him to be what can be described only as selfish. But did it get in the way of him winning three rings? Was he "selfish" 2005-2007? Or was he just asking himself, "Who’s hotter right now, me or Chucky Atkins?"
Now bring in the fact that the dude’s team just won the championship and did it in a way that it isn’t normally accomplished. Almost all NBA champs have at least 2 sometimes 3 (Magic, Cap, Worthy) HOFers. Is Pau Gasol going into the HOF?
And then there’s this from Chris Ballard’s article from SI on the Finals.
"…The way [Bryant] dominated not only with baskets but also with passes—Bryant had nearly twice as many assists as any other player in the Finals."
I just don’t see where (Abbott) brought anything new or insightful to that criticism.
Or this from Daniel:
The most hilarious part of that article:
"About a minute into the video, Bryant is approaching the hoop and Steve Nash runs over in an attempt to take the charge. Yes, Bryant can jump over a man that size. But Kwame Brown could not be more alone under the hoop. Rather than dishing, however, Bryant scales the little Canadian infomercial celebrity. "
I take it that Henry never got a chance to watch one Laker game when Kwame was on the team if he thinks dishing off to "Stone hands" Brown under the bucket is a preferable decision to Kobe posterizing a 6′3″ point guard.
Henry may claim now that we are taking what he wanted to say out of context. I contend that he is taking Kobe’s dunks out of context. Would you like to see Lakers fans put together a highlight reel of Kobe passes? Not hard to do. What about defensive stops? Easy. The fact is, we like dunks — they are fun to watch and dramatic.
And to read too much into a highlight reel speaks more to the writer than the player. Sadly.
Seriously though, here’s a painful video of Kwame blowing a very wide open layup (again, ironic isn’t it that it was against the Grizzlies?):
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 18, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's the video of Kwame (don't know why it didn't work in my post above)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ocgvUrh4yU
in case anyone wants to remind themselves why passing to Kwame usually resulted in a lot of face-palms.
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 18, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Brown or Farmer
FIrst I would love for Fisher’s minutes to reduce even more during the season for he will need his legs for the playoff run. The one who is smart with the ball and play consistent defense will win this battle. Jordan takes a lot of risk – even before his injury. Noone, including the Lakers, knew who Shannon was until practice began. He was hungry to win and stick with a franchise after stints in Cleveland (suckers) and Charlotte (like Brown knows how to build AND win). He came in played tough defense and hit big shots. Jordan has had an off-season to heal and rebuild his confidence. Phil has already shown that he will play all 3 pg and he will go with Fish and the hot hand. Work hard and stay prepared boys. Perhaps you will do as Fish did for one game in the final hit the big shot.!
There should be 4 options....
Why is their a both option. I like having both, its kinda like in football where u have the pounding back and the quick back.They both bring different tones and skills to the court. I hope they both have success.
In Kobe we trust!
Brown Delivers
Give me some Shannon. I couldn’t ask for a better PG to take over Derek Fisher’s role.
Competitive? check
Driven? check
Athletic? check
Spot up three ball? check
Tough defense? check
Young with promising room for development? check
No one is going to bring the clutch, veteran savvy factor Derek has brought us…so we need other things from our new point guard. The only thing Shannon lacks are traditional pointguard skills such as dribble penetration and ball-handling. Lucky for us, that’s the sort of thing a PG doesn’t need in our current system. Shannon WILL find success with the Lakers WHEN he gets the minutes and AS he gets adjusted to the system. Is there a better option for the price right now? HELLL no…and personally I don’t think adding some all-star pg into our system would necessarily help our game.
Don’t be surprised if Farmar is traded in February.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
lol do we know he can hit the three consistency? As of now, he doesnt even avg 1 3pt attempt per game lol
You could make all those arguments for Farmar as well…he is actually younger than Brown. And actually has experience leading a team in pressure situations during his time at UCLA.
Not saying ur wrong, just point out that its not as black and white as you’d like to believe. It wouldnt make any sense for us to trade him before the playoffs, especially since we care most about how they perform during the playoffs.
In Kobe we trust!
I think in general, Farmar has more potential than Brown
That is, I don’t Brown will fit well for most other teams as he does for the Lakers. On the other hand, the Lakers probably don’t bring out the full potential of Farmar—they’re kind of laying waste to all his traditional PG skills (which may be quite valuable to other teams).
A few years down the line, if and when Phil leaves, Farmar will probably be more useful. Unless trading Farmar in lopsided deal, I don’t see the great benefit from trading him.
Plus, as a UCLA fan, I personally don’t want him to leave :(
Bzzt, wrong.
You can not say those things about Farmar at all.
Does Farmar have anything close to tough defense? No, not at all. Brown wins here hands down. Brown also wins in the athletic department hands down. The thing Farmar has over Brown right now is that he’s been playing in the system for long enough to better understand it. Also, I don’t think i like Farmar’s drive in regards to this team. You can tell he likes winning, but he seems to be getting some Radmonovic attitude like he should be playing more and getting more important minutes. As far as I’m concerned, he has not earned them. Give me a selfless PG like Shannon who, quite frankly, is just happy to be playing in the NBA and playing for the Lakers no less.
Shannon’s got a good stroke. I’d say he will at least be as good as Farmar from 3-ball land this year. You can quote me later if you’d like.
If Farmar started for the Lakers right now, we’d have even worse PER difference stats for the pg position because he CAN’T defend.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
I think you are way too down on Jordan as an athlete
I agree that Brown is the overall better athlete (He might be the best overall athlete on the team, Kobe included), but Jordan is certainly no slouch. Farmar has more speed and quickness than Brown. And if you are doubting Farmar’s hops, keep in mind what someone else has already mentioned, we used to run alley oops for that kid.
And I once again agree that Brown is a better defender overall than Farmar, but its interesting to note that when PJ needed somebody to slow down a small, quick guard (Aaron Brooks) in the playoffs, Farmar was who he turned to, and Farmar did a relatively decent job of it.
I’m not saying I disagree with what you are saying, but it did seem to me that you were selling Farmar short.
I think it is too early to tell with either one.
To me Farmar’s got 2 1/2 strikes on him. I know he was hurt last year and just a youngster before that but he also has faded at the end of the season – we need someone who builds towards the playoffs. Add that to his problems with defense and I’d be OK to see him traded if he’s not better by February. But that all depends on what you can get for him and what better alternatives you have for PG. You might have to keep him just to cover as a backup for the playoffs.
I like Shannon but it is SOOOO early to tell what he’s got. Can he run the team (in our weird triangle way)? Can he hold up to more minutes and a variety of opponents? He did a good job D-ing up big guards (Chauncy, Deron Williams) but I still can’t figure out why Phil didn’t try him on quick ones like Arron Brooks. Bottom line he’s got promise by way to early to tell how much he can contribute.
Lastly, it takes so long to integrate a new PG into our system that I think we’re stuck with what we got for awhile.
Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine
Thanks for writing my comment for me...
Brown all the way and Farmer backs him up.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
The Triangle Offense
If we’re assuming that the Lakers will continue to run the triangle offense in the coming 4-5 years of contention, then Shannon Brown would be the best, most economical option.
The triangle demands that the PG shoot and defend. Shannon Brown showed he could do that this year, though his excellent shooting may have been a fluke (as he was not known as a good shooter up until the trade).
However, as the effectiveness of the Kobe/Gasol pick and roll has shown, the new Laker offense is not limited to just the triangle. In the Shaq/Kobe days, the offense was primarily entry passes to Shaq and swinging the ball around the perimeter (with a little free-lance offense by Kobe). However, with the versatility of Odom and Gasol, the Lakers are no longer limited to the triangle. So in the event LA runs a more traditional offense, Farmar may be valuable with his traditional PG penetration and passing.
Anyways, I think Mitch will do the right thing and wait until near the trade deadline to evaluate the two young PGs. I’m personally hoping for a Farmar/Morrison package for Hinrich (with Shannon sliding into 1 or 2 off the bench, depending on whether Fish is retired or Sasha is traded). Not likely, but it would be great.
I voted for Shannon
Love love love his attitude. He smiles and seems like such a good guy, genuinely excited to be playing for the Lakers knows his role on the team, he’s a great human highlight reel, etc.
That being said, Shannon, at best, might be a great backup point guard, but I’m not sure if he’ll be a great starting point guard. Still, if he can deliver half of what Fish does, then that’s all I ask (for now). As long as we’ve got Pau and Kobe on this team, we just need a good reliable passer that knocks down 3-pointers for PG and we’ll be good.
Though, when Fish does retire, I kinda do think we might need a new starting PG. i don’t think it’s necessarily bad if Mitch and co. are out there looking for replacement PGs for Fish.
Also, I do like Jordie as a backup PG, his minutes with the bench mob shows his potential. I like that the bench mob pushes the pace (contrasted with the starters slower pace), but man, they gave up waaay too many leads in some of the games.
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Sep 18, 2009 12:08 AM PDT reply actions
like i said i would like to keep both for a while longer
they both play different which i like,
although farmar likes to play at a faster pace and create, which i feel the triangle does not let him do, he needs to improve his strenghth on D. i dont feel hes a bad defender he just doesnt have the muscle to really stick with the stronger point guards, they kinda push him around.
where as brown has the quickness and the mucle to play some hard D on the point guards, he can also shoot ok.
point is they both have to work hard and improve their game. if they do i see us having a good point guard duo for a few years
Wow. Hot topic. The poll got 1600+ votes.
Oh and maybe it is just for me but this post shows up in a different font than the others (times roman-ish) fwiw.
Anyway, thanks for cranking out the content C. A. Clark!
Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine
Yeah that's on me
Sometimes I write my posts in word and forget to format them when I paste it over. It’s not usually a big deal but this time something happened where the font size is too small.
You can do it Jordan!
We havn’t had a 10 assist per game pg in like forever… yet we have finishers all over the floor. Be that point guard and we can have a 5 year dinasty!
That may not be a fair bar to set
Has the triangle ever produced a 10 apg PG? I really doubt that it has.
I'll withhold my vote for now...
Its too early to tell. Most people forget how well Farmar was playing before the injury. Lets see if he continues to develop beyond his pre-injury self. What concerns me the most about him is weak defensive play. We need good defensive PG play to slow down the smaller, quicker guards that usually torch us.
Shannon is not a pure PG so he may continue to lack some of the playmaking skills you like to see in a starting PG. But for PJ, he is more prototypical than Farmar. A big guard who can start the offense, play defense, and hit the outside shot. It will be interesting to see him after having gone through camp with the team and having a full grasp of the offense and defense. To me, the most intriguing thing about him is what he may bring defensively. If this guy could become a top notch defensive player, the type that can truly slow down elite PGs, that would make a big impact on this team. Pair a strong defensive PG with Kobe, Artest, Pau, and Bynum and your going to lock some teams up. This is where I give Shannon the edge over Farmar.
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