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Wallace to Celtics Makes Artest to Lakers Even Better

We've already discussed the Lakers' acquisition of Ron Artest (3 years @ the Mid-Level Exception), and the odds are we're not done with it. For my money, it was a great move. Two of the Eastern Conference's three best teams, Cleveland and Orlando, made significant roster upgrades (though I admittedly don't think Cleveland's will be enough to win the East next year), as did San Antonio. Boston was rumored to be trying to do the same.

It was therefore a good thing, in general, for the Lakers to also improve their roster, rather than being complacent while their biggest challengers made moves aimed directly at taking Los Angeles down.

Now, Boston has reportedly reached a deal with Rasheed Wallace, also for the Mid-Level Exception, adding him to the team without losing any major players. In my mind, this makes them at least as likely as any other team to represent the East in the 2010 NBA Finals.

If you ask me, that makes Artest even more important, specifically for the impact he would have in a Lakers-Celtics matchup.

Star-divide

Remembering the 2008 Finals matchup between the Lakers and Celtics, several things stand out in my memory — few, if any, positive. Among those unfavorable memories are two key disadvantages the Lakers suffered against the Celtics.

First, of course, was that Kobe Bryant was unable to be very effective on offense. This was no fault of his own — the Celtics trapped him at every turn, and when he was able to split the double team, a help defender was immediately waiting to seal him off. What should he have done, sprouted wings and flown over the green-clad defenders? Michael Jordan and LeBron James would have been equally ineffective, individually, against that defense. And yet, when Kobe made the pass to find the open man, the Celtics' rotations were so crisp and quick that the open man was no longer open by the time he received the ball. That is how good the Celtics' defense was that year.

The second unfavorable memory that sticks out to me was the Lakers' inability to come up with an answer for both Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. Simply put, whichever player Kobe wasn't guarding simply had his way against the Lakers. When Ray Allen was on fire, Kobe would switch over to him, essentially shutting him down... only to have Paul Pierce make easy work of the Lakers' defense. But when Kobe would switch over to Pierce, Allen would have his way. As a result, the Lakers simply couldn't handle the Celtics defensively — and to make things worse, Bryant's constant defensive scramble left him less energy to combat the Celtics' strong defense on the other end of the court.

Trevor Ariza would have helped in this situation, but I question whether he could effectively match Paul Pierce's strength over the long haul. Ron Artest, on the other hand, is exactly the type of defender to match up effectively with Pierce. The Lakers' pick-and-roll defense was stellar in the 2009 playoffs, theoretically removing one of the ways in which Pierce repeatedly punished the Lakers. With Artest on him, he would have a hard time freelancing effectively, as well.

Kobe, meanwhile, would be left to guard Ray Allen — certainly a less physically demanding task for Bryant, and a matchup which could really frustrate Allen and potentially take him out of the game. Alternatively, the Lakers might opt to put Derek Fisher (or Shannon Brown, if the Lakers retain him) on Allen, opting instead to put Kobe Bryant on Rajon Rondo (or whichever quick point guard the Celtics' starting lineup features). This would allow Kobe to either freelance defensively, daring Rondo to hit long jumpers, or to focus his defensive energies on Rondo, keeping him out of the paint and eliminating the Celtics' primary source of ball penetration. While L.A. has used Kobe on Rondo in the past, it has usually meant putting a less capable defender on Paul Pierce and/or Ray Allen.

This is a classic example of the way in which Artest can take over Kobe's "primary defensive stopper" duties, allowing Kobe to conserve energy, saving him more for offense — and potentially prolonging his career by saving him from the added wear and tear.

With the acquisition of Rasheed Wallace, Boston now essentially features an All-Star starting lineup. The biggest question for them now is simply whether Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett will be healthy come May. If they're smart, they'll take the San Antonio/Gregg Popovich approach, saving their key players' health and energy rather than worrying about their regular season win-loss record. If they can do these things, then I expect them to be the Eastern Conference favorites.

If that prediction is correct, then I expect Ron Artest to be a key player in the 2010 NBA Finals.

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Comments

Display:

811 Words

I actually expected to keep this to around 400 words, so some things never change.

Still… this has got to be my shortest post in a LONG time!

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 5, 2009 9:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I enjoy reading your stuff, it’s awesome, but the length sometimes turnes me away.

by sdpads24 on Jul 5, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

400 words or 800 words, your point was well made.

I was thinking something like that after I gave the pickup of Artest more thought. I remembered how he played Kobe and realized that that can work in our favor.

Nice post JT.

GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Jul 5, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does having Sheed really mean?

We can all agree that this makes the Celtics better. But yet we have yet to see a Celtics Lakers matchup in the Finals with Bynum at 100%. We have all seen that Pau was able to guard D. Howard and he is much more physical than KG so i’m not worried on that end. The big ex factor is going to be how good Odom plays and Perkins effectiveness. But, at the same time the Celtics would have to match up with Artest. Artest would have a better or easier time defending Pierce then the other way around. I cannot wait for the regular season to see how these teams matchup. The one thing I will say is that the Celtics have to worry about the Cavs and Orlando while the Lakers only have to worry about the Spurs. We will see who makes it to the Finals.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jul 5, 2009 9:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt agree Pierce has a harder time guarding pierce then vice-versa…considering ive seen just about all their matchups (underrated maychup in the league and would make this rivalry better) and pierce has outplayed artest in most of the meetings http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=piercpa01&p2=artesro01

and just for the hell of it..
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=piercpa01&p2=bryanko01

by orr on Jul 6, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Newsflash: Paul Pierce is a pretty good player.

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pierce guarding Pierce would be quite a sight (and vice versa)

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jul 6, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Old and overrated

Sheed had a great career and he’ll help the celtics weak bench but his arrival doesn’t mean they’re better than the cavs or even the magic. Sheed will be 35. That’s pretty old and his game is quickly on the decline. This doesn’t scare Lebron and the Cavs one bit. HE CAN’T STOP LEBRON! Lebron has torched Sheed for years. Last year in the playoffs he avg. a solid 6 ppg on 36 percent shooting. Not exactly lights out. Bottom line, the celtics still have to make some moves to overtake the Cavs and Magic.

by Shark Sandwich on Jul 5, 2009 9:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sheed wasn't brought in to stop Lebron

and frankly, nobody in the league can stop him. Some are capable of slowing him down, but that’s not why Rasheed Wallace was brought to Boston. If anything, he was brought in for more, reliable, front court depth against Los Angeles.

I do agree Sheed’s game is on the decline, but I also would like to point out that last season the entire Pistons roster pretty much mailed it in. When he’s focused, determined, happy, and into it, Sheed is still a Top 8 offensive power forward, and probably a Top 15 defensive power forward.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha ha, already clinched the WCF for the Lakers there and plotting Finals matchups, Josh...

Artest makes it less likely, not more, that the Lakers will win the West, in my opinion.

It is therefore moot how this impacts any double-ultra-uber-hypothetical matchups in the east.

Covering Rasheed is no problem… Just station somebody around the 3 point circle to put a hand in his face, ‘cause he’s shooting a jumper.

BTW, wasn’t Hashweed gonna retire if he didn’t get somebody to “Cut The Check” to the tune of $8 Million for the season? Funny how that changed. He must have figured out that the only two teams with that kind of space were Oklahoma City (Rasheed in OKC, now THAT’S a funny thought!) and the Blazers (chances of which were less than that of Charles Barkley passing 2-for-1 sale at a Krispy Kreme without spending $20).

Who cares about the Celtics, really? Stick a fork in them, they’re done.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 5, 2009 9:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

...
Who cares about the Celtics, really? Stick a fork in them, they’re done.

Wow, that’s a horrific oversight if I ever saw one. You do realize they won over 60 games last year without their best player for a good chunk of the year? Even deep homer attitudes don’t cloud objective analysis this much.

by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trash talking the Celtics is always appropriate.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frankly, yeah, I am

You can’t account for things like injuries, so nothing’s ever guaranteed. But then, that’s no more the case for the Lakers than for any other Western team, so it’s a moot point, in my opinion. And who is going to challenge the Lakers? San Antonio? If Manu’s healthy, they’re better — but still not good enough to beat LA, I don’t think, even if a key player is hurt. Houston? Lottery. Portland? I’m sure you’ve got some thoughts on that, but I still say not yet. Denver? They need to do SOMETHING, and they haven’t. (In my mind, that something would be getting rid of Kenyon, Birdman, and Dahntay, and replacing them with solid contributors with better attitudes, but that doesn’t appear to be happening.)

I’ve got a post coming soon on why I think the Lakers have started a dynasty, regardless of what the East has done (or what Portland might do). So I’ll save the rest of that for the post.

As for Rasheed, this isn’t about how to defend him. This is about the fact that he makes the Celtics better, therefore making it more likely they get to the Finals. The specific player to think about defending is Paul Pierce, and that’s what this was about. And yes, if Garnett is healthy, I do think Sheed makes the Celtics good enough.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 5, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Things like injuries..."

Exactly.

If Pau or Kobe-san were to go down, for example…

We haven’t even seen all the roster moves for the coming season yet, let alone who is gelling or not gelling on the floor over the course of a long season. We have no idea which of the incoming rookies are future stars and which of last year’s kids take their game up a notch.

And even then, even then, even then — assuming the Lakers have the best record in the West and are decisive favorites three times in the playoffs, it’s a coin flip whether they make the Finals (Last year: Heads = Lakers; Tails = Cleveland).

I realize to some extent you’re whistling in the dark about the unknown quantity that is Ron Artest, but really, Rasheed Wallace makes 0 impact on what’s gonna happen with him — because of Ron-Ron or thanks to Ron-Ron — mainly becaue in a matchup of the two teams, Ronnie draws Paul Pierce on defense, not Wallace. It would be Lamar (we all hope and presume) that would be playing Wallace in such a mega-hypothetical matchup…

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're missing the point

First of all, isn’t is plainly obvious that this is all hypothetical? That this is pure conjecture and speculation? I should think at this point, that’s taken for granted. We’re engaging in wild speculation here. The point isn’t that we have super-concrete things to go on, it’s that we do the best we can with what we have at the moment. Sure, I could say, “Well, we really have no way of knowing, so let’s not go there.” But what’s the fun in not going there? We’re sports fans, this is what we do!

So the point that anything can happen is pretty obvious, man. It’s assumed. BUT, we’re operating under a couple assumptions here: (1) Anything can happen TO ANYBODY, not just to the Lakers, and (2) we’re going based on what we see RIGHT NOW.

Sure, someone could make a big acquisition. But RIGHT NOW, the Lakers are the OBVIOUS favorites in the West, by FAR.

Also, I’ve said this a few times… This is NOT about Artest guarding Rasheed. The point here is that Rasheed means the Celtics have a better chance of getting to the Finals… therefore, he makes it more likely that we match up with them… and in that case, Artest will be guarding Paul Pierce, which is HUGE.

If you think I’m saying Artest is important for guarding Sheed, you didn’t read the post.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow, you really hate Artest, huh?

I mean, less likely that we’ll win the West? Despite picking up a better player in every aspect of the game than Trevor Ariza.

Look, I love Trevor, but let’s not forget that it’s a business, and fan favorites leave all the time.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 5, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ron will lose more games for the Lakers with horrible shot selection than he will win for them.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

see, this is an underhanded statement

Are you implying that he won’ win many games with his horrible shot selection? Because if you are, that’s pretty damn true and there’s no way to argue.

If you think Ron’s shot selection is gonna be horrible ala the Houston Lakers series though, you couldn’t be more wrong.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll give Ron a pass the 1st time he dribbles 22 seconds off the clock then jacks up a prayer. But the second time he does it I hope Kobe walks over and grabs the ball from him. Or maybe Fish gives him the Scola forearm treatment.

Of course that’ll probably make Artest start swinging. But at least it’ll be entertaining. :-) (I just miss easygoing Trevor.)

by lazNirv on Jul 6, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing about Artest's wild shots

For the past 13 years we’ve put up with Kobe jacking up horrible shots. Less than half go through. So I think we’ll be able to cope with Crazy Pills putting up some bad shots every game. Hell, we’ve put up with it with Sasha, haven’t we? And he doesn’t even give us the other intangibles that Artest will give us.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean to tell me Sasha picking up fouls early in the quarter to put the Lakers in the penalty isn’t an intangible?!

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's the best part of Sasha

Really, who honestly thinks he’s going to last through the season as a Laker?

The only way I see it is if he shoots 45% or more from the arc to start the season, and maintains it.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

…its not like the Lakers had some miraculously well gelled group and losing a guy like TA instantly deteriorates what that group was all about. TA for Ron Artest doesn’t make us worse automatically. Trevor hit some timely shots in the finals, but this team is built around and wins because of Kobe, Pau Gasol, Phil Jackson, and to a lesser extent Lamar Odom.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction needed...
With the acquisition of Rasheed Wallace, Boston now essentially features a 2003 All-Star starting lineup.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 5, 2009 9:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's missing the point

The point is that Rasheed is an All-Star, as a player, overall. Even if he isn’t this year, there’s something to be said for that kind of player. A player like Sheed, even if he is past his prime, still has the potential to be very dangerous. Veteran savvy replaces athleticism, to a certain extent, for those players most capable of making the most of that veteran savvy. I think Sheed is such a player. And playing on a team where he is the 4th or 5th option, but with renewed hunger in a new situation, I think he can definitely help the Celtics.

That’s what matters. Because again, this isn’t about him being the one, individually, that the Lakers need to worry about. This is about him helping the Celtics get to the point where the Lakers will be thinking about them. At that point, it becomes about Pierce. But Sheed could be instrumental in getting it to that point.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 5, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's Rasheed's 2008-09 Playoff Stats, which should help you sleep...

4 games played — because his team got swept.

6.5 points per game.

6.3 rebounds per game — of which only 0.5 were offensive, since Old Hashweed is paint-adverse on the offensive end.

0.8 assists per game.

0.2 blocks per game — HE ACTUALLY GOT ONE!!!

A perfect guy for the Celtics. Cut the Check, Danny-Boy, Cut the Check…

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Sheed automatically makes Boston that much better...

…but the man deserves better credit than the stats from his last four playoff games. No one on Detroit was worth a damn really.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The post is all about of the Lakers needing to be afraid of and match up with the Big, Bad Scary Superstar Celtics in the playoffs...

……………………………… and Rasheed was a big zero in the playoffs.

And he will be a year older and a year lazier next year.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rasheed is a team chemistry cancer and an abject mercenary whose game left him about 5 years ago...

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

outta curiosity..

you haven’t said this persay… but it seems your leaning that way. What I’m getting is…

by signing Ron Artest, the Lakers have “more than likely” cost themselves the Western Conference Crown.

by signing Rasheed Wallace, the Celtics have “more than likely” cost themselves the Eastern Conference Crown.

Is that what you’re trying to say? Just wondering.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Detroit was a big 0 in the playoffs.

They squeaked in and never wanted anything to do with advancing. If you don’t think he’s gonna play better with Boston, dunno what to tell ya.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've misunderstood this post

It isn’t about the Lakers being afraid of anybody. It’s about matchups. It’s about the fact that Ron Artest gives us a good defensive matchup for Paul Pierce.

As far as Rasheed, this post is suggesting that Wallace increases their chances of coming out of the East. And he does.

The problem seems to be that you think I’m expecting Sheed to dominate. I’m not. He doesn’t have to. But if you don’t think Sheed will be a much better role player than what they currently have, you’re as delusional as you think I am.

There are three conditions that this post raises for the Celtics going to the Finals in 2010:

  1. KG is healthy for the playoffs
  2. Paul Pierce is healthy for the playoffs
  3. Rasheed Wallace makes the team better

If KG and PP are healthy, they’ve already got good chances. You can hate Sheed all you want, but considering whose minutes he’d be taking, he is an unquestionable upgrade. And while you’d like to cite his most recent history, you’re also willing to overlook a very clearly established pattern of his: New situations and new challenges incite a reborn hunger in him.

Again, and this is really important, I’m not suggesting Rasheed will be his dominant 2004 self. I’m just not. I am simply saying that as a 4th or 5th option, he still has what it takes to significantly improve this team. And that’s the truth.

KG and PP healthy are the primary factors, and I said that in my post, so it’s not like I’m saying the arrival or Sheed in and of itself is all it takes to put the Celtics in the Finals. I’m not that naive. But adding Rasheed is a third factor that could lead to the Celtics coming out of the East, assuming the Celtics take care of the health factors for the other two first.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

c'mon timbo

don’t be a complete stat geek. Please tell me you atleast watched ONE game of the Cleveland-Detroit series.

I’ve never seen a player more in “I don’t care” mode than Rasheed was during the series. It was sad, because had he actually given an ounce of effort, the Pistons could have given the Cavs a decent series.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they're healthy, that's a solid frontcourt rotation

As Sheed can spell both Garnett and Perkins at the four or the five, and has the mobility and size to defend either position. This is a better way to put this acquisition: take all the minutes Davis played last year and replace them with a fairly motivated Sheed. That’s quite a difference. Grant Hill is looking like he’s going to sign with Boston now also, and if so, that bench is at least as good as their 2008 one. Big question for them now is whether they can all stay healthy.

As far as the defense goes in a possible matchup, it’s hard to say, although Josh’s point about Kobe and Artest shutting down Boston’s wing play is pretty salient. An important thing to remember is that we developed the strong-side zone to compensate for the defensive deficiencies of a good chunk of our players, as the only true lockdown guy we had on the team was Kobe. Now we have Kobe and Artest on the wings, so I predict our defensive scheme should shift significantly. It will definitely be more effective, as teams picked apart our strong-side zone as time went on last year, and Boston’s offense is going to be anemic without good production from Allen and Pierce.

by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 10:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For my part, I don't think it was about the strong side zone

I think the key was players buying into playing defense, and PJ putting more emphasis on it as a coach. The regular season scheme was less important, because when they get to the Finals, PJ is the master of figuring out what to tweak in order to exploit the current matchup. Look at Dwight Howard — PJ figured out what no one else could, coming up with a way to defend him effectively without being killed by his teammates.

I guess my point is that in the playoffs, the scheme is going to be tweaked anyways. But if the players haven’t bought in, and defense hasn’t been a priority throughout the season, that’s just not going to happen. The fact that defense was coached during the season (perhaps not as much as Thibodeau in Boston, but still), and that the players bought in, made it possible for the coaching staff to come up with whatever scheme would best allow them to take advantage of the matchup.

Like most all of this, at this point, this is pure speculation… but to me, this is the potential of the Artest acquisition: Last year, the Lakers were a very good defensive team (great in the finals); with the addition of Artest, the Lakers have the potential to become a defensively oriented team. I’m not guaranteeing it, but I think it’s possible. That, to me, is one of the subtle differences between Artest and Ariza. Ariza is a very good defender at the same position, but something about Artest’s approach to the game, paired with Kobe, I think could cause this team to actually make defense not just something important, but actually a priority, and a thing upon which this team is built. It’s a subtle but potentially huge difference. We’ll see if that actually pans out.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 5, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good distinction

But the overall parameters of the strong-side zone — especially the “soft” double-team with the weak side guy — were maintained fairly consistently for a good chunk of the playoffs. When executed well, we could shut down anyone; the problem was that execution, namely because it relied on defensive instincts that simply weren’t there for a lot of our players. We would follow a few minutes of lockdown defense with an equally lackadaisical effort.

I totally agree that with Artest, and especially his motivating spirit, this can change dramatically, as we really can think about shifting our overall scheme into something more resembling a consistent, lockdown defense, especially due to the quality of our wing defenders. Defense is going to determine how far we’re going to go, and we certainly have the pieces to do that — a very intimidating pair of wing defenders, and two seven footers, including a good shot blocker in Bynum, guarding the paint. And even past that, we have Odom’s terrific help defense, and Brown’s possible maturity into a more defensive-minded player. Again, the pieces are there for making defense a cornerstone of our team, the question is if it’s going to happen.

by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

please explain

“I think the key was players buying into playing defense, and PJ putting more emphasis on it as a coach. The regular season scheme was less important, because when they get to the Finals, PJ is the master of figuring out what to tweak in order to exploit the current matchup. Look at Dwight Howard — PJ figured out what no one else could, coming up with a way to defend him effectively without being killed by his teammates.”

I’m still learning, and I’d like to know more about this. Can someone please explain what Phil Jackson “figured out” about Dwight Howard, and what he changed that allowed the Lakers to defend Dwight effectively?

Thanks in advance :)

by gryffindor on Jul 5, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He stopped all things he could do offensively

For all his gifts, Howard is an extremely limited post player, as he doesn’t have any real go-to moves. His only so-so move is a running hook, which the Lakers continually denied him, forcing him to use a spin move as a counter, but literally every time he did that, we had a “soft” double team (usually Fisher) that would come in and rake down on the ball to try for a steal. If Howard kept the ball higher during the spin, he could have prevented this, but he continually allowed Fisher or whoever was the help to go for the steal.

by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Josh great minds think alike because it seems like I'm always agreeing with you

I think this move does place them ahead of the Cavs in the East and if the Magic lose Gortat then this move places them ahead of them also. I want to see Odom and Brown re-sign with us and see the Lakers play a game before I place them in the Finals though.

There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

by BrittneyM on Jul 5, 2009 10:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Question About Artest Lakers Jersey

Does anyone know if they will be selling Artest jerseys with a hood? (Cant wait to see the Hoodalized Lakers in action)

by Joaqu on Jul 5, 2009 10:27 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

ha ha!

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's actually a brilliant idea.

If I were you, I’d come up with the designs pretty quickly and market them to the NBA. Might make yourself a decent payday.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

now that you mention it...

I do have a concept, just not sure to whom i will pitch it to?? plus still dont know his jersey number – can anyone help a laker brother out?

by Joaqu on Jul 6, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not sure

never gave much marketing thought on apparel. Contact people with the NBA, or Nike, or Reebok, to discover how to make a clothing lines pitch to them.

As for his jersey number, no idea yet. I’m sure we’ll know this Wednesday.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Artest is going to be #37

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ron Artest has reportedly chosen #37 for his new Lakers uniform number, as an extremely indirect tribute to Michael Jackson.

Because Jackson’s “Thriller” stayed at #1 on the music charts for 37 weeks.

Artest has cited Rodman as a numerical inspiration. In Rodman’s short stretch as an LA Laker he wore #73 – the mirror image of Artest’s new one.

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

am i the onl person

who thinks boston might be too old? sheed is 35. ray and kg are 34. pierce is about to be 32. some people might call the celtics “veterans”, i call them old. kg has a lot of mileage on his body and i question is ability to hold up. same as ray. i highly doubt boston will be a problem for us next year. they know they have a 1-2 year window so they are gonna give it their all next year. i don’t think their all will be enough. i’m more worried about the magic and to a lesser extent the cavs

by Adamas on Jul 5, 2009 10:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm still worried

Although your point is salient. I think this is their last year. Allen is gone next year, Garnett will be 35, and Pierce definitely is going to start slowing down. This is why Ainge tried to nab a top five pick to take Tyreke Evans because he realizes their window is essentially this year. They have hell of a path to go through in Cleveland and Orlando though, so it will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

To Adamas point, I’d say they’ve got this year left in them. If KG can get healthy, of course. And if Doc is smart enough to go Pop with them and save them for the playoffs.

Which he may not be. Look, the top 3 in the East will be awesome, but you can still win 45 games and get a middle seed in the playoffs. If the Celtics go for 60+ wins again, they’re damn fools, and they can forget about the championship. If they go for something closer to 50 wins, accepting a middle-of-the-pack playoff position and waiting for the postseason to really play all out, then I do think they’ve got this one year left in them.

As for their path, I personally think a challenging path to the Finals is beneficial. Look at this year’s Cavs. Look at last year’s Lakers. Now look at last year’s Celtics, and this year’s Lakers. The teams that were really challenged in the earlier rounds, and really had to fight to win, were better prepared for later rounds.

I still think the Lakers beat the Celtics, if they do meet in the Finals.

But after this year, the Celtics are done. Isn’t it sweet?

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 5, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

35 is not too old.

Michael Jordan won 3 titles when he was older than Kobe is now.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well yeah

If you’re Jordan or Kobe, then sure. For everybody else? I think that’s a little too old.

by chrisbeomsuh on Jul 6, 2009 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But no one's asking them to be Jordan or Kobe

The point is that there are FOUR of them now. They don’t have to be Jordan or Kobe. They just have to be pretty good. And they will be.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you (see above).
am i the onl person
who thinks boston might be too old? sheed is 35. ray and kg are 34. pierce is about to be 32.

Rasheed is stealing making over $5M with his extremely limited late-career skill set and horrible work ethic on and off the floor.

KG is very possibly finished with his knee; certainly well on the other side of the hill.

Pierce is a baller, but every team has one.

Ray Allen is old and streaky.

Their bench is shallow because they have all their money tied up in the above.

If Ainge trades Rondo, like he seems intent on doing, they’re headed for the garbage disposal.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reports: Wallace agrees to deal with Celtics (My post from Yahoo)

283. Posted by mightywok Mon Jul 6 1:12am EDT

Poor Rondo gets to play Devean George’s old role on the Lakers (w/ Shaq, Bryant, Payton, Malone). Looks good on paper and during photo shoots, but if the “X” man (Phil) couldn’t do it, I do not forsee Doc having success.

by Joaqu on Jul 5, 2009 10:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I meant to post on this thread

OK I agree Artest is good on Pierce & LeBron & Melo

To me we have to get through the west first so I am much more interested in what happens to the Spurs & Portland.

I can’t figure out what the Spurs are doing. They added Jefferson and a rookie or two but that ain’t gonna help Duncan in the paint. How will they get past Dallas (Dampier, Gortat) or Portland (Oden, Pryzbilla, Aldridge) not to mention the Lakers will kill ’em.

Then Portland tries for Hedo and now ESPN is reporting they’re targeting David Lee although they probably won’t get him. What the F are they up to?

I’m so confused. Must be time to go to bed.

by lazNirv on Jul 5, 2009 11:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Lakers are clear fav in west

spurs have only one good big man, tim duncan. he’s great, but that is not enough against the lakers bigs. the lakers can throw out 3 solid big men. gasol has improved his play against duncan. bynum plays very well against duncan and we have odom, if resigned, for depth. spurs had a decent back up with kurt thomas, but now he’s gone. blair won’t contribute much in his rookie year. Laker’s bigs should dominate. i think the lakers are much better than the spurs.

portland has all the talent in the world, but they’re like the utah jazz—they can’t win on the road. if you can’t win tough games on the road, then you have no chance.

gortat has zero offensive game. he gets most of his points on offensive put backs and on pick and rolls when he goes to the basket. but these don’t happen too often. he is a good defensive player, but his poor offense is a liability and i think he won’t be on the floor no more than 15 mins a game. i still think the mavs stay in the middle tier of the nba.

by Shark Sandwich on Jul 5, 2009 11:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Gortat is better than you think

But not a WHOLE LOT better than you think, at this point. He’s got upside… but can he be good enough, soon enough, before Kidd just isn’t worth the money anymore? So I think you underrate Gortat a little bit, I agree with your end conclusion — they’re still middle of the pack.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the mission for them, for sure.
portland has all the talent in the world, but they’re like the utah jazz—they can’t win on the road. if you can’t win tough games on the road, then you have no chance.

They have one more player coming, let’s see who it is… Some possibilities include David Lee and Brandon Bass — either of which would give Portland the best 4 man frontcourt in the west, not to mention one of the kids coming in, Jeff Pendergraph, who looks like a player to me.

Another team to watch out for is Oklahoma City. You heard it here first.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By "frontcourt" I mean "bigs," sorry about that.

2 bigs, 2 wings, 1 pg.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Jul 6, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OKC is an up and coming team, for sure

But their time will be after the Lakers have already had theirs. Well, at least after the KOBE Lakers have had theirs.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've seen it with LeBron, you saw it with MJ, you saw it with the Lakers in 2008, and the Magic this year

Even championship “caliber” squads don’t just win because they have the talent. There is a certain hardening process, a learning curve, that teams have to go through, before they figure out what it takes to win in the playoffs. The younger the team is, the more true that is.

OKC is very young, and they’re not championship caliber yet. They’ll take at least a couple years getting to the “championship caliber” level (I’d say more like 3-5), and another year or two of trying, failing, and learning once they have the talent to be there, before they’ve gained the experience necessary and learned what it takes to win a championship.

They’re certainly not to be overlooked in the long run — but I think both the team and its star still have a lot to go through and a lot to learn on the road to finally becoming capable of being champioins, and that will take a few years.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OKC definitely will be a team to worry about in later years,

but next season they will not be able to make the playoffs. I’m pretty confident that they’ll finish behind NO, SA, Dallas, Utah, Portland and Denver, and I think it’s somewhat likely that either Golden State or Phoenix will come out just ahead of OKC for the eighth spot.

by Darkemans on Jul 6, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dead on, Josh

There are certain teams against which Artest helps us tremendously. Boston is probably the biggest one. Artest is physically made to handle Pierce, whereas I don’t think Ariza could have done as much as we’d come to expect from him (Pierce thrives on weaker defenders).

Rasheed arguably gives them the most dangerous starting 5 in the East, maybe the league, if Bynum is in 8 pt-4 rebound mode. Their frontline oddly mirrors ours:

-3 starting caliber bigs: Garnett/Wallace/Perkins vs Gasol/Bynum/Odom
-Physical, powerful small forwards. One more offensive-minded and one more defensive-minded, but both very capable on both ends of the floor.
-Primarily useless white dudes. Admittedly, Scalabrine’s come up big for Boston at times, which I guess is more than Morrison.

A Lakers-Celts re-match would be incredible, a basketball fan’s dream. The matchups would be amazing.

by Snoopy2006 on Jul 5, 2009 11:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Remember Cleveland

I’d say Cleveland is the biggest one Artest helps us against. I mean, can you imagine Trevor guarding LeBron? Ha! But Artest can actually do that, and pretty well. Which means 2 things: (1) He gives us a better option even than Kobe on LeBron, and (2) he means that Kobe no longer has to worry about that.

And LeBron’s supporting perimeter players are nowhere near as good as Paul Pierce’s. Meaning that with Artest guarding LeBron, Kobe would have a field day defensively.

So I’d say that in terms of specific matchups, Artest is most important for LeBron, and second most for Pierce.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Artest fixes most of our match-up issues

People always pointed out that opposing PGs killed us, but I always thought opposing SFs were what we had real problems with. A PGs impact can be minimized with good team defense, but a SF is harder to do that with. Guys like Pierce, Lebron, Carmelo, and even Gerald Wallace have beaten us pretty bad over the past couple years.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It all depends on what team your playing. Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Arron Brooks kill us. But so do Melo, LeBron & Pierce.

Artest will be a help with the big guys. We just need to solve the quick point guard problem.

by lazNirv on Jul 6, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why this is a good move

Because personally, I don’t think the Spurs are there. And I know the Rockets and Hornets aren’t.

On the other hand, Denver will very possibly be there again. And there’s a 2-out-of-3 chance either the Celtics or Cavs will be there. So while Tony Parker and Chris Paul may give us fits, I don’t think it will be enough to beat us — honestly, not even close. And Ron Artest will be huge for us defensively against the teams that actually can compete with us, by becoming our primary defender for Melo/Pierce/LeBron/etc.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough.

I can’t imagine that the Spurs are done but since they missed out on Sheed I can’t figure out who’ll help Duncan in the paint. They might get one big somewhere but it won’t be enough to get them past Portland’s bigs let alone LA.

by lazNirv on Jul 6, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I wouldn't say they're done

I just don’t think they’re any more likely to get past the Lakers than they have been in the last 2 years.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. By done I meant with adding to their roster. And like you I don’t see who they can get for them to get past the Lakers’ length up front.

by lazNirv on Jul 6, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, good point

No, they might not be done. But like the Cavs, they’re running out of options.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

May be a stretch

But Dejuan Blair could have an impact in a limited role as a banger. Duncan’s really a center for all intents and purposes, and Blair as a rebounder/banger next to him might work. Maybe.

by Snoopy2006 on Jul 7, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spurs are looking to get McDyess

by intuitive on Jul 7, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would still like a back up big guy 6’9-7’0 that is as nasty as artest.

by chaucer on Jul 6, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trevor did ok

but it was more of a Luke-Trevor combo against Lebron, with Kobe in key moments. Luke actually did better, IMO, because of his girth compared to Ariza’s. Artest will help much more here, and we still have Luke to fall back on. (BTW, does no one remember that Luke, not Trevor, was the better defender against Carmelo Anthony?)

Where I see Artest really helping us against Cleveland, since I thought we did a great job against Lebron, is on the offensive end. Let’s ignore the potential for wild shots. I honestly don’t think that’s going to be a major problem. Crazy Pills has a high basketball IQ (yet again, Mitch strikes paydirt!!) and will know when and where to take his shots. What I’m talking about is matchups.

In the Cavs series against the Magic, two problems arose that doomed Cleveland. One was obviously the post defense/offense, and they brought in Shaq to address that. I liked that move, makes sense. The major, second problem, was the size of Delonte West. Whenever Orlando brought in Pietrus to guard Lebron, the Magic suddenly had two tall players at SG and SF, and West had to cover one of those players, often times Hedo, since Lebron prefers weakside D over ball handler D.

Now imagine the matchups against LA. Lebron has to guard either Artest or Kobe, and either one is clearly capable of scoring at range or on drives to the hoop. So West is stuck with who? Kobe? Triple Ocho will shoot right over him all day. Does he guard Artest now? We know where that’s going, for those of us who love Luke Walton’s post game.

All in all, Cleveland has no shot at beating LA with it’s current roster.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great points

A couple of subtle distinctions:

  1. Against Cleveland, a lot of it was the help defense on LeBron. Meaning, Big Z can shoot as many 18-foot jumpers as he damn well pleases, we’re not biting. We’re hanging back with our bigs and saying, “Come on, LeBron, we dare you.”
  2. While that is actually a good strategy against LeBron, Artest bolsters that even more. He gives you solid man defense AND solid help defense on LeBron. Very problematic for Cleveland.
  3. Your point about Luke vs. Carmelo is very astute. Luke had the size and strength to better handle Melo, and was surprisingly quick when trying to stay in front of him. Artest has more of all of these things. More size, strength, defensive quickness. Have fun, Melo.
  4. And guess what? Melo has a broader offensive arsenal than LeBron. I like your points about Artest’s role on offense vs. the Cavs — it forces LeBron to actually guard someone who can score from all over, in a variety of ways, and can create his own shot, which he didn’t have to do before — but again, don’t overlook the defense. The advantage Luke presented over Trevor when guarding Melo is relevant when guarding LeBron, as well. The carryover being that Ron Ron will be even better against LeBron than Luke. You’ll never completely stop LeBron, but whenever you can add a guy who can defend him better than your previous guy, that is a Good Thing™.

Great, great points about Delonte. They really need him on offense, but on defense he is often a liability… especially against a team as big as the Lakers, across the board.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crazy, crazy question...

I’m not even sure how I feel about this, myself. It could be absolutely retarded, as I haven’t really thought it through. But what the hell, let’s throw it out there…

Since Cleveland struggles so much to defend size, what would you think about this roster vs. Cleveland?

Bynum-Gasol-Odom-Artest-Bryant

Crazy enough to be completely stupid… or crazy enough to be freakin’ awesome?

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I worry about speed and fouls

While these are our 5 best players, against Cleveland’s 5 best, I worry about their speed getting our players into foul trouble at times.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn’t Odom, Pau, and Drew clog the paint like crazy? There would be no room and I don’t think Odom’s shot is reliable enough for him to hang out on the perimeter. Would be interesting though. Would be a SUPER tall line-up

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it would be...

but almost no different than the lineup Orlando trotted out at times against us in the Finals. Lewis is 6’11", Hedo is 6’10", Pietrus is 6’7". The only short man was their PG, and I remember the brief moment when SVG put JJ Reddick at PG to try to match our size.

Overall, versus that Magic lineup, and the Lakers lineup above, I think we’d outreach them by a couple of inches in total.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would be one heck of a defensive line-up. Given, Bynum would have to get his “presence in the paint” back. Hopefully he’ll get right, rehab his knee, and come back strong next season

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my main concern with Bynum

is his offense. Granted, we don’t need his offense, but he cost us plenty of points this season with his own poor post play.

First, let me say this about his defense. It was never great to begin with, but post-injury, it was obvious he had little lift to challenge shots. But I won’t quibble on that, I can understand a big man’s lack of faith in a recently injured knee.

My main problem with him is his inability to read a defense once he recieves the ball in the post. The vast majority of the time for Drew, once he had the ball, it was Vegas or bust.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

holy crap...

this line up is even bigger than the one projected at the beginning of the 08-09 season, which was Bynum, Pau, LO, Kobe, and Fish. obviously phil jackson didn’t really think that line up will work which is why we didn’t see it 99% percent of the time(can’t remember whether or not there was an instance when this line up was used) during that season. personally, i was bummed when phil decided to start vlad instead of odom, LO deserves to start. it would be awesome to see phil starting with this line up at least for a couple of times in the pre-season to see how it works out.

by xMUx on Jul 6, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clogging the paint would be the biggest issue, I think

But holy jeebs, I just want to see it… just to see it!

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't find the stats on it

but I know there was atleast 3 times I saw a lineup that featured Odom at the 3 during the regular season, and once during the playoffs. I was only able to find a record of two of the regular season instances, and in all of these, J.Powell was featured as the PF (the playoff instance was the same case).

Here’s the info:

PG: Fisher
SG: Ariza
SF: Odom
PF: Powell
C: Bynum

Total +/-: +8 (20/-12)
Minutes Played: 6:25
Games Played: 2

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 7, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Phil played it once during the playoffs too, but for a very very short time

by intuitive on Jul 7, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, he did

It was Odom, Powell, and Gasol. Not sure who the guards were.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 7, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

minor correction

“and to make things worse, Bryant’s constant defensive scramble left him less energy to combat the Lakers strong defense on the other end of the court…”

You mean “…combat the Celtics’ strong defense…”

by altree on Jul 6, 2009 1:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Quite right, thanks.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The whole "easing off bryants defensive assignemtns" idea

I dunno if this has any merit to it. I think Kobe plays just as efficiently when he’s taking top priority defensive assignments as when he’s not. Don’t get me wrong, Artest helps our defense…but I’m not convinced Kobe’s gonna become more efficient or be better for us in anyway next season because he has less defensive responsibility.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 1:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh, really?

Do you think any player in the league performs better on the offensive end when they’re working their rear off on defense? Given how much of the burden Kobe takes in our offense, he needs a lot of energy to keep that up on a consistent basis. There’s a reason we give Kobe easy assignments in the first through third quarters and then stick him on the opposing team’s primary offensive threat late.

by Ben R on Jul 6, 2009 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Think 2008 Finals

Remember how tired Kobe was? Now, part of that was conditioning, and working with Grover has helped him. But Kobe is about to be 31, and he only has so much energy. Guarding Paul Pierce is unquestionably going to require more of that energy than sagging off of Rondo. Which means Kobe won’t be as tired. Less tired = more effective in general, including on offense.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah i dunno still...

I thought Kobe’s poor play against Boston was a result of their defense more than his exhaustion. They kept him the hell away from the paint. It’s just hard for me to say “well Ron Artest is gonna guard people Kobe had to guard, so that means Kobe is going to be more efficient offensively”. For example, I know stats don’t tell everything but would you expect this to mean his FG% or assit:to ratio will go up?

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a combination of things

To an extent, I agree with you. I am definitely NOT saying Kobe not having to work hard on defense is the only thing needed to make him efficient against Boston on offense. That’s why I wrote this part:

First, of course, was that Kobe Bryant was unable to be very effective on offense. This was no fault of his own — the Celtics trapped him at every turn, and when he was able to split the double team, a help defender was immediately waiting to seal him off. What should he have done, sprouted wings and flown over the green-clad defenders? Michael Jordan and LeBron James would have been equally ineffective, individually, against that defense. And yet, when Kobe made the pass to find the open man, the Celtics’ rotations were so crisp and quick that the open man was no longer open by the time he received the ball. That is how good the Celtics’ defense was that year.

Obviously, a lot of why Kobe struggled was Boston’s defense. I’m just saying that fatigue plays a factor, and with Ron guarding Pierce, it won’t be as big an issue. It’s not the only factor, but it is a factor.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so would you guys expect...

Kobe’s FG% or Assist:TO ratio to be up next season? I think Kobe is going to be working as hard as ever on defense, regardless of who he’s guarding. He’s one of the best help defenders in the league. I just don’t see things being that simple…

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Jul 6, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's anything that specific, or that broad

First, I’m not saying I expect him to be better in any specific way, statistically, next season. In fact, I’m not really talking about the season, overall. I’m talking about Kobe vs. Boston.

As for Boston, I’m not saying I expect through the roof stats from Kobe because he’s not guarding Pierce on defense. That’s really not at all what I’m saying. I’m basically just saying I don’t expect him to struggle as much. That’s all.

Why? Again, I’m not saying it’s all because he won’t be guarding Pierce. I’m saying it’s a combination of things. Part of it will be that Artest gives us another scorer who can create his own shot, and another post-up option. Part of it is that Pau won’t be letting himself get bullied again like he did last time. Part of it will be that the Celtics are a bit older. Part of it will be that I think Lamar Odom has found what it takes, and will be better against Boston than he was last time. Part of it will be that the Lakers’ vastly improved defense/toughness will make it harder for Boston to score, which in turn will make it harder for them to defend us so completely, and will create opportunities for us to score.

And part of it is that Kobe won’t be as tired from constantly switching onto whichever Celtic is killing us. I mean, is it really that out there to suggest that a less tired Kobe is a better Kobe? That’s pretty much true of all players. All people, in fact. And that’s all I’m saying.

And while I do expect Kobe to work hard on defense at all times, I don’t expect that work to be as draining against Rondo as it would be against Pierce. That’s a pretty obvious thing, to me.

So I’m not saying Ron guarding Pierce, and Kobe guarding Rondo, will magically, in and of itself, make Kobe unstoppable on offense. That’s ridiculous. But isn’t it equally ridiculous to think that fatigue has nothing to do with Kobe’s performance on offense? I think so.

So while I do expect Kobe to continue to work hard on defense, I expect that work to be less draining against Rondo or Ray Allen than it would be against Pierce. As such, I expect Kobe to be less affected by fatigue. And I expect that to have a real impact on offense — not as the only factor, but as one important factor among several.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a tribute to Michael Jackson, Ron Artest will wear #37 this season as a Laker. Artest said that the album, "Thriller" was number 1 on the charts for 37 weeks.

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ron, supplying the entertainment for the Los Angeles media already!

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Jul 6, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is FANTASTIC news

I still believe there is rom for Farmar, but I think we all agree that Shannon Brown showed LOTS of potential. The kind of potential that, if realized, could shore up our PG problems. I can’t think of anywhere that he could better develop that potential. With UPS under the direct tutelage of Derek Fisher, with added coaching from Kobe Bryant, Derek Shaw, and of course, Phil Jackson, I have a lot of confidence that he can become an important and very valuable player for us.

I am SO relieved to learn that he’s coming back. And I feel great about this deal — it’s fair to Shannon, he gets the pay day he deserves, and yet it’s VERY reasonable for the Lakers… both in terms of cost, and (very important!) length.

Excellent move, I couldn’t be happier about this. I’m really quite thrilled with the way Kupchak is handling the off-season. He’s being realistic, reasonable, and making some really great deals. He’s improving this team without putting them in a financial fix (a la Orlando).

Kudos to Kupchak.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 6:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Whoops...

This was supposed to be here.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Jul 6, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has anyone given thought to Sasha?

I know most of us are off the Machine’s bandwagon after a foul-plagued season, but I wonder if next season we might see a resurgence? Overall, I believe Sasha’s poor play was due to lack of playing time. Let’s not beat around the bush. Sasha is a sensitive, emotional player. We all know that. And players like that need playing time. Otherwise they sit and overthink EVERYTHING.

Now, how exactly does Sasha get more PT if we replaced Ariza with Artest, and Trevor was the main reason for Sasha’s loss in PT? (ShanWOW didn’t help either) By taking on the responsibility of guarding those quick point guards we all are bemoaning after Ariza’s departure.

I can fully see The Machine getting more PT in the future, if he can improve two things:

A) Get his shot back. MAX Priority.
B) Learn to be able to pressure the ball handler WITHOUT FOULING.

If he can do both of the above, then I can fully see Farmar becoming the odd man out. I love Jordan, but honestly, Sasha has every ability Farmar has, plus size.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know why Sasha presses so much. From what I hear, Phil has told him countless times not to do it and yet he continues to do it. Which doesn’t help his case of more minutes at all since he gets us into the penalty early as well as him picking up fouls.

Sasha and Farmar are both unique in their own way but with Farmar, him being on the bench for so long and collecting some DNP’s made me feel like he matured and towards the end of the season really understood that he had to change. Sasha on the other hand seemed to think that the only reason he was so “bad” was because he wasn’t getting any minutes. This led to him trying to get all his shot attempts in a shorter amount of time, hence his quick trigger to shoot etc.

The K brothers do a nice job explaining how I feel

Sasha’s exit interview: http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2009/06/sasha-vujacic-exit-interview.html

BK and I have written on countless occasions about Sasha’s career-long tendency to press in the face of decreased minutes, a desire to cram 25 minutes of production into ten minutes of floor time as a way to earn more run. The results were bad shots, bad fouls and (ironically, if predictably) more time sitting. To his credit, Sasha copped to the violation, but his comments make me wonder if he truly “gets” the situation. Or more importantly, accepts it.

First, BK noted how on a team with so much depth, minutes will have to be sacrificed by nearly everyone. Is that something Sasha is cool with? Honestly, I don’t think so. He knows what he’s supposed to say and is certainly trying to, but he’s obviously quite chapped over a reduced role. Yes, he relayed an “if it’s four minutes, it’s four minutes” message to the coaching staff, but unfortunately, that’s also what was said all season, and he struggled to reach peace with the situation. A “but we’ll see” kicker gave the impression that he planned to solve the issue by somehow securing more PT, rather than making the necessary mental adjustment and then hoping to play more.

then Farmars: http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2009/06/jordan-farmar-exit-interview-.html

I was impressed with how candid Farmar was Tuesday afternoon, and how willing he was to take responsibility. There was a welcome humility to go along with the same strong self-confidence we’ve all seen through his career. He’ll need to build on that to stay in LA. For much of the year, I thought Farmar would bitch his way out of town. I still think he is a strong candidate to be moved this offseason, but after listening to him the other day think the door to a longer career in LA may not be closing as fast as I thought. .

With Farmar he admitted that it was more because of him and his own play that his minutes decreased, he accepted responsibility. With Sasha I just don’t get that feeling. It seems like he’s still blaming the lack of minutes, and saying the right things just because they’re the right things to say instead of truly meaning them. With Farmar gradually he understood and the way he played took a change in the last games of the playoffs. With Sasha I still saw him take ill-advised shots and rush, instead of playing within the offense. Am I the only one that feels like this? Maybe its just me and I have the situation all wrong

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, you're absolutely right

first off, great stuff. Glad to have read it. I never could find much of the exit interview stuff except with the major players, like Ariza, Kobe, and Pau.

I definately agree on the Farmar bit. We all panned him to start the playoffs, and expected him to not play at all, in favor of Shannon Brown against Deron Williams. But who was the first guard off the bench the vast majority of the time? Jordan Farmar. And considering what he had gone through recently, and the entire season, I was doubly impressed with his performance.

With Sasha, it is painfully obvious that he’s trying to jam a whole night’s work into a couple of minutes. And it’s really sad, because before we picked up Trevor, long term I saw Sasha as one day becoming the starting SG and Kobe moving to SF as he continued to slow down. Now, thought, I don’t think that will ever be the case.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thought = though

sorry, hurried.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeap. It just seems that Sasha thinks if he gets more minutes everything will be fixed when that’s not the case. Just seems like Farmar was more accepting of the situation as the season progressed while Sasha continued to blame the decrease in minutes to his drop off in production.

by intuitive on Jul 6, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he isnt going to get more minutes whinning like a little b*tch. sure i understand he may need to get in rhythm, but for 5 milliion dollars you better be able to come off the bench and do SOMETHING!

by robi s on Jul 11, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's human

nobody is perfect. things bug us. it bother’s our concentration.

however, that being said, if any of us were in his shoes, we’d be lucky to ever hit a shot again. Sasha will make some. That’s why he’s paid $5 mil. Or anything for that matter. Because over time, he’s still light years above most average players.

(I’d love to see a video of Sasha kicking some streetball ass)

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 13, 2009 3:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sheed's a bust for the lakers

Very well written post and I agree with your statement on the pressure ron is going to take off kobe. I really don’t think sheed is going to be a difference maker just because of the fact his game is an on and off thing. I live in Michigan so I watch a lot of pistons basketball and sheed was a ticket seller more than a teammate. In a 7 games series I think you are going to see him have one night where he might go 15 and 10, and another night where he won’t even be a factor. It’s good to be intense about the game but sheed take it to a whole different level that is sometimes hurtful to the team and unnecessary. sheed just does not have the leadership skills or quick enough feet in the post to be anything other than a 10min off the bench guy for the Celtics.

by ILOVEKOBE on Sep 20, 2009 7:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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