The Odom Negotiations: No Need to Panic
by DexterFishmore on Jul 14, 2009 10:09 PM PDT
in Editorial
187 comments
The Los Angeles Times tonight has sent Lakerdom all aflutter with a report that the team has pulled its contract offer to free agent Lamar Odom. Sayeth Broderick Turner:
Lakers owner Jerry Buss is upset that Odom and his representative, agent Jeff Schwartz, haven't made contact with the organization regarding its $9-million per season offer for three years, one source said Tuesday.
Odom and his agent have been seeking $10 million for five years.
[snip]
The source also said Buss was not happy that Odom and Schwartz have been having talks with the Dallas Mavericks and Miami Heat about a deal, but have refused to talk with the Lakers.
Awww. Hurt feelings all around, I guess.
I'm on record with arguing that re-upping Lamar is imperative for the Lakers, but I'm going to respectfully decline the opportunity to sink into despair over this latest report. Why? Because it's almost certainly not true.
I mean, I'm sure it's true in the sense that a source actually told the Times what the article claims. But there's almost no possibility that the Lakers have in fact withdrawn their contract offer to Lamar.
If Jeff Schwartz called Dr. Buss tomorrow morning to inform him that Lamar would like to execute a contract to play for the Lakers at $9 million per year for three years, the Lakers would gladly sign on the dotted line. They would do so because it's in their best interests to do so. If yesterday, the next three seasons of Lamar Odom's career were worth $27 million to the team, they're still going to be worth that much tomorrow. No salient fact will have changed in the meantime.
Keep in mind, as far as player payroll goes, the Lakers have no other way to use that money. They're over the cap, they've re-signed their other free agents, and they've used their cap exceptions. It's not like there's another available player behind Door Number Two that they're keeping on hold. It's either sign Lamar (or sign him and trade him), or move on with the roster they've got.
If we were on the verge of fall camp, the notion of pulling an offer might have some credibility. At that point, a team might legitimately claim that it needs to have its complete roster in place so that the right players can practice together. That's debatably a fish-or-cut-bait moment. The middle of July is exactly the opposite of that.
If Lamar and his agent haven't returned calls about the Lakers' latest offer, that means it's not good enough, at least not yet. It means it's not an offer they're prepared to accept at this moment. It also bears mentioning that the NBA collective bargaining agreement affords Lamar and his agent the right to negotiate with other teams. That's what free agency is.
Dr. Buss is a smart guy and an experienced negotiator, so I'm sure he's aware of the foregoing. Leaking to a reporter that he's "pulled the offer" is mere table-pounding on his part, something to startle the other side in the hopes of getting the deal done. That's fair. But the Times notwithstanding, I'll believe Lamar's heading to Miami or Dallas when I actually see him hold up his new jersey at a press conference.
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Lakers offer to Odom was either three years and $30 million or four years and $36 million. Odom rejected both.
That’s A LOT of money for Lamar to turn down. How much does he want?
I mean that’s ridiculous. That is much more then any other team is probably going to offer. I doubt even Portland would offer that much for LAmar
Portland can't even offer that much
Most is about $9 million starting salary if they renounce a few Euro players on their cap.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Plus they have to lose out on Millsap first
even though I fully expect that will happen.
by Cool Hand Roy on Jul 14, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
it was actually...
$9 million (27 over 3 years)…
if they offered him $30 million I think he would have taken it…
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
where? I just looked it up and can’t find any sources
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I did – there’s NOTHING about odom getting a $30 million offer
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
That was the wrong link to post....
Click on the word ‘report’ at the beginning of Dexter’s original post. It’s from the LA Times.
“Lakers team officials, who were not authorized to speak about the negotiations, said Buss offered Odom a deal for $9 million a season for four years at $36 million, or $10 million a season over three years for a total of $30 million.”
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
i stand corrected.
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 15, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
But
Daily News is now reporting:
“After raising their offer to Odom to either $30 million for three seasons or $36 million for four years – his choice – the Lakers have pulled their offer from the table after the versatile forward declined each.”
there’s a million daily news – wanna link us please?
and is this from a source or are they speculating?
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.dailynews.com/lakers/ci_12839540\
I don’t believe this though – they didn’t say who offered the 10 million nor was it from the manager or owner – from Black, their spokesperson who i’m 99% sure didn’t state what the offers were
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Black also declined to comment except to confirm the Lakers have pulled the offer to Odom.
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
When I read that, the first thing I wonder is:
does Lamar really want to stay with the Lakers? Maybe he wants to play somewhere else. That’s not an insulting offer. That’s the kind of offer a player who wanted to stay in LA would take.
I want LO back, but if he doesn’t want to be back, then, I guess, so be it.
“That’s the kind of offer a player who wanted to stay in LA would take.”
Very well said.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Many in the Lakers’ organization believe that Odom wants to accept Buss’ offer — and so do those close to Odom — but he has failed to convince his agent.
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 15, 2009 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
which is also a load of crap
If LO wants to stay in LA and liked the offer, there’s no way he needs to convince his agent – agents serve to serve the players – not the other way around.
so if the deal was ignored by LO’s camp, it’s because LO didn’t like the offer.
Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.
by PeanutButterSpread on Jul 15, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
almost agree
I agree with everything except the last part; I’d say that if the deal was ignored by LO’s camp, it’s because LO’s camp thinks he can get a better offer (in terms of some combination of place, duration, and amount) if it’s ignored. He might very well like it, but thinks he can get something he’ll like better.
Whether that turns out to be true (I doubt it, but it’s not impossible) remains to be seen.
Oh I agree that a lot of us are...
…jumping the gun, but the point is that this is becoming a lot similar to the Ariza-Lakers mess that the fans don’t want to go through again.
We know that Lakers can (and are willing) to pull an offer and sign someone else, but in this case your spot on – there is no one else to really sign and they are over their salary cap.
Either way, Lamar Odom getting $9 million a year is spot on – i think it was the LA times that wrote it (or hoopsworld? I don’t remember, i was panicking a bit :D ) that this would make Odom the HIGHEST paid 6th man – even over Manu Ginobili.
Obviously the Lakers will give Odom the $9 million over 3 years deal, but don’t you think they are using the media to put pressure on Odom/Schwartz to get the deal done before Miami or Dallas picks him up?
Let’s wait a couple days to see how this plays out
EH
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by STREAKINGLIGHTS on Jul 14, 2009 10:22 PM PDT reply actions
No way would Lamar choose Miami or Dallas at the MLE over LA for $9 mill.
Even if it is for 3 years, because he’ll earn another contract at the end of 3 years and make more than he would with a 5 year MLE contract.
Lamar would have to be absolutely stupid to turn this down. If he was going to get better from any other team, he would have by now. When is his agent going to realize this?
maybe he just doens't want to play in LA...
by Cool Hand Roy on Jul 14, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
and I don’t think Lamar is taking into consideration the market. I mean, no one is going to offer more then what the Lakers are offering. I don’t think anybody will anyway.
Do you think the economy should be a consideration in negotiations?
I agree the current market is important, but I am not sure about the economy. Of course most of us are affected negatively by the economy, but should that be an issue here? I really don’t know, it is a tough question.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
What I mean is this.....
When the economy is down like it is now companies hire less employees (not an issue here), layoff employees (not an issue here),or make less profit (definitely an issue here).
However they don’t usually cut their players salaries. I am of course taking Odom’s devil’s advocate side here, but it is a valid point.
(For the record I think he is an idiot not to sign, I am just trying to see it from the other side)
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
*players = employees
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I think the market should be considered just because other teams aren’t going to offer Lamar as much. The Lakers don’t need to worry about not profiting because they always will. It’s LA, the seats will always be filled as long as Jack Nicholson and all the other stars are around.
The only time when the economy would factor in is during signings like Lamar’s situation. It would only factor in because other teams (that aren’t as fortunate as the Lakers) will be strapped for cash, and thus wouldn’t want to shell out so much money. It’s benefits us I suppose. But then again, that’s just my opinion.
If salaries were something that were renegotiated every few years like players contracts were...
…then yes, companies very likely would reduce salaries in times of economic crises. They’d probably do that instead of laying people off (for example with Lamar, if we couldn’t renegotiate his salary because of the way contracts in the NBA work, then we’d have to “lay him off”).
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
true
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Yes, it is.
I posted the above comment before I knew he was offered $10 mill for 3 or $9 mill for 4. But i don’t believe he would actually turn them down. There has to be more to it. The deals must be incentive laden or team options in the last year.
If he turned down a legit $9 or $10 mill, it’s just silly. He must be looking at Anderson Varajeo’s deal an figure he should get more.
playing the media
X is reported in the media != X.
Players looking to bump the market often say they really want to stay. If negotiations break down, it then gets painted as the team rejecting the player, rather than the other way around. Not saying that Lamar doesn’t want to stay, only that you can’t determine that from the fact that it was reported.
Lots of folks are reading way too much at face value. Kurt’s point over at FB&G: When talking to the media, everyone has an axe to grind. Well, except when…no, nix that, EVERYONE has an axe to grind.
Screw Lamar Odom
Dude if he don’t wanna play in L.A. then he don’t wanna play. Whatever team he goes to, the Lakers will just have to pound to death. The Lakers better already be getting ready to embarrass the Rockets. Artest better guard Ariza and hold him scoreless.
And I still stand by the idea that if we can’t retain Lamar, we might as well do a sign and trade with the Chicago Bulls. Lamar for Hinrich. We upgrade at the point guard spot and the Bulls have an even better chance at getting Wade once 2010 rolls around.
Ugh, no
Hinrich’s contract is massive for his solid, yet unspectacular production, and this makes Powell our primary backup big off the bench. If Chicago throws in Noah or Thomas and a first round pick, this might be more bearable, but a straight up trade for Hinrich would be a major downgrade.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I agree with Dex.
Dr. Buss is a smart guy and an experienced negotiator, so I’m sure he’s aware of the foregoing. Leaking to a reporter that he’s “pulled the offer” is mere table-pounding on his part
The info came from an “unauthorized team official.” Which really means secretary or assistant sent to blow smoke up our butts and put the pressure on LO’s camp.
I have to agree.
Have you ever heard of a person being fired for being:
“Lakers team officials, who were not authorized to speak about the negotiations”
Me neither. They are always authorized to speak in times like this or else the team would go ballistic and find out who it was and fire them.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
jerry buss may seem like just an old guy with a toupee who likes playmates on his arm,
but based on history with shaq and other free agents, agents and players who underestimate him do so at their peril.
Odom is to the Lakers what Pippen was to the Bulls
After reading Ball Don’t Lie interviews Scottie Pippen and how Pippen’s stats don’t show exactly what he did for the team and his selfless play on the court, it reminds me what Odom (and Ariza for that point) brought to the Lakers championship run. There is no replacement for Odom (that is available on the market like Artest is supposed to be for Ariza). If you try to think about another solid sixth man, none can compare to our talented ball handling, triangle offense running candyman. So if Odom will sign for the $9, i’ll use my marketing skills to invent a candybar we can sell to make up the other mill per year (easy money) – I may need help with the start up costs ;)
Kukoc/Grant
I feel he has Kukoc’s ballhandling, occassional shooting, but Grant’s rebounding tenacity. Nice post.
What happened to hometown discount Lamar spoke of?????
Lamar is one of my favorite players of all time. He has gone through hell in real life, but still keeps it real and plays the game for what it is; a game!!! It’s not the end of the world, it isn’t life or death, it is a f**king game!!! If he is being offered 3 years $27 million, he should take it. He is of the uber importance to the Lakers and we to him. He should do what he promised and get this crap over with.
It's not 3 years $27 million, it's 3 years $30 million
Whatever dude. Lakers are still contenders without Odom.
contenders w/Odom >>>>>>>>> than contenders w/o Odom
not sure i’d be blowing off one of your best players just cuz he want’s money and thinking you’ll be just as good without him…
by Cool Hand Roy on Jul 15, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder if Lamar is using...............
his $14 million cap number or his real $11 million salary number when he says he would take a pay cut?
I bet I can guess.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Take the offer Lamar!
30 million for three years, what an insult. LAMAR pull your head out! I am glad they are not offering him a five year deal and hope he ends up signing the three year deal. I can not see him signing anywhere else as he would be taking a major pay cut! This leaves the only other possibility a sign and trade. If it comes down to this- how about a Boozer for Odom swap.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
If they lose Lamar...
they could definitely use Boozer’s rebounding. I would worry about him taking touches from Pau though.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
The problem with Boozer is..........
where is he going to play? Will he take Pau’s spot? I guess Pau could move to center with Boozer at PF and put Bynum on the bench?
Wow, actually I like that one…………damn just busted my own argument.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
That is exactly what I was thinking...
and Phil could experiment bringing Boozer off the bench as well. Where he could add some second unit scoring. And should get plenty of minutes as Bynum is sitting with fouls, injuries, or just struggling. Either way he would take a lot of pressure off of Bynum.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
Pau’s natural position isn’t at center, he’s more effective at PF (his natural position). I don’t like Boozer and Bynum on the bench would stunt his development and growth.
Well what I mean is.........
that we can still do the “platooning” thing that we did last year. (Odom comes in for Pau or Bynum whichever is in foul trouble. If Bynum comes out, Odom goes to PF and Pau goes to Center. If Pau comes out, Odom goes to PF and Bynum stays at Center).
With Boozer it would be: If Pau goes out, Bynum goes to center and Boozer stays at PF. If Boozer goes out, Bynum goes to Center and Pau goes to PF.
Either way it works out the same. Two of the three are always on the floor together at all times. That’s the beauty of Pau. You really have two good PF’s and two good Centers and can combine them anyway you want.
Of course Boozer would have to take 9-10 million and Utah would have to want LO for this to work. Also you would have a guy making 14 million coming off the bench.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Now you know how I feel about Artest.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Bynum seems to stunt his own growth.
And the answer to this is, bring the Booz Cruise off the bench but I don’t think that is necessary. I think it is worth noting that they won the championship with Pau playing mostly center. This is all hypothetical rosterbation anyway.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
Millsap gets matched on Friday and Buss knows that there is something like a 40-50% chance that KP throws money at Lamar next...
The Blazers’ Kevin Pritchard can only get to about $9M without renouncing more guys than he wants to renounce, so the chances of him actually getting LO to bolt is slight — BUT he can structure the deal in a very unpleasant manner and force Buss to give Lamar more years than he wants to. So he wants to get the deal done NOW rather than have KP set the terms and be forced to accept those…
I think LO signs on Thursday. I’m calling that.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I do not see Lamar as a Portland type of guy...
and I think see that too.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
I don’t think Buss really cares whether Portland makes an offer.
Those same sources said Buss is a man of principle who sticks by his decision.
Those sources were mindful that when Shaquille O’Neal said during an exhibition game in Hawaii in 2003, “Now, you’re gonna pay me,” while looking for a contract extension, Buss was angry and never forgot that.
After the 2004 season, Buss traded O’Neal to the Heat, in a deal that brought Odom to the Lakers.
Sounds to me like Buss doesn’t give a shit what Odom wants to do. For him it’s take it or leave it.
Buss doesn’t sound happy at all. After all, this is the owner that traded Shaq.
If the two sides do begin negotiating again, Lakers sources said Buss, if he’s willing to talk, will lower his offer to Odom.
That's the only way LO ends up in red and black next year.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
if timbo says lamar signs thursday...
…that means he’s becoming a Blazer on Sunday :(
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
And the agent saga continues.
Many in the Lakers’ organization believe that Odom wants to accept Buss’ offer — and so do those close to Odom — but he has failed to convince his agent.
If the two sides do begin negotiating again, Lakers sources said Buss, if he’s willing to talk, will lower his offer to Odom.
Those same sources said Buss is a man of principle who sticks by his decision.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-lamar-odom15-2009jul15,0,5773043.story
Odom can't convince his agent???
What does that mean? Who is running the asylum here? First Ariza’s agent fucks up and now Odom’s agent “can’t be convinced to do what his client wants”???
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Well it’s Odom’s fault. If he likes the deal he should tell his agent that.
Ariza and Lamar should fire their agents and hire Shannon Brown’s agent. :)
that's what bugs me
of course, that could be smoke being blow by Lakers officials.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
I think Kobe should call Ariza (they seem to be friends).....
And have Ariza call Odom and remind him what MIGHT happen if he is not careful.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I think artest should call Lo
Aren’t they good friends? Tell LO to man up and take the deal so they can get to work on this 2010 championship
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Jul 15, 2009 12:38 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Damn right !!!
Lets put this shit in perspective. First the lakers have made an economically viable and fiar offer given the economic situation. Second the Lakers are the defending and reigning NBA Champions, Third, With Odom on board the Lakers have at the very least the baest chance to repeat. Finally, odom says he loves LA!!
So what is the hold up,Lamar and his agent have a good offer on the table, A great team that appreciates you, a chance to win a title… I can’t see any reason to rethink this situation. Why Lamar? Why the hold up? Will you really let your agent decide for you and eventually screw this up?
Holy crao
Agents work for the athlete, if LO wants the K then he can take it.
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Jul 15, 2009 12:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Fire his ass
Agents are really f*cking sh*t up this year. Odom should learn from what happened to Ariza. Knowing Buss and Kuphack, if Odom’s agent keeps trying to leverage, the Lakers will somehow get a trade for Boozer, and Odom will be stuck play in oklahoma for 9 million lol
two agent debacles in the same off-season?
If Odom leaves town, do we get to call his agent even DUMBER than D.Lee, seeing as he let history repeat itself…about 3-4 weeks later???
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
lol Lakers should just forget about Lamar Odom.
He’s on his downside anyways and doesn’t take care of his body. All that damn candy, he’s going to be such a crappy player on a team that has no Kobe/Pau to set him up. Then we can blowout whatever team happens to land him.
If this is all it takes to turn you against a player
Then I shudder to call you any real fan of this team. I’m certainly not happy with the way the contract negotiations with Ariza ended for instance, but I will cheer for him (when he’s not playing against us) and wish only the best for him. Your negative attitude here is frankly disgusting.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
disgusting???
I read his post 3 times and while I don’t agree with it, I think your response is equally disgusting. Settle down my man.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
hahah agreed. While I still think Ariza is great, and will cheer for him when he’s not playing against us, I still say screw him for leaving a championship team, to play for the same money
The same goes for LO only LO has even less of an excuse to leave.
- The Lakers have met him more then half way by offering 10 million for 3
- Odom actually gets starter minutes despite coming off the bench
- Odom is an older player, and no one else wants him
- He’s already been paid well for most of his career, if he is still money hungry after making more than 10 million for 10 years, then that guy needs to learn to manage his money better.
This just feels bad I don't want Lamar to go
And can someone tell me what the HELL is KOBE doing?? He should make sure the Lakers sign Lamar, everyday this news gets ridiculous, just give Odom what he wants already. I tired of these negotiations, wheres the news about him signing??
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Lol what?! he wants five years? A 35 year old Lamar odom getting paid 10 million, that doesnt sound too appealing
At the same time however, assuming the salary cap stays the same next summer, We are already gonna be over the cap, meaning we arent going to be able to sign anybody, except with our 2 exceptions. That being said, it would be wise for the Lakers to resign lamar, from a logistical standpoint so that we can eventually trade him when he starts going down hill. What the lakers need to do is get his contract to expire the same year he starts to suck
Lamar Issue
Just get it done and done soon!! The offer as it stands is a great compromise for everyone involved given the economic situation. Regradless of the final numbers wether it be $36 M for 4 years or $30M for 3 years Lamar and his Agent should a least consider saying something and go back to the negotiating table..
Hmmmmm...
Boozer to Lakers, Odom to the Blazers, Outlaw to the Jazz…
How far off is that on the trade machine?
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Ah, doesn't work economically for the Lakers (aside from the sign-and-trade aspect) because they don't want to eat a $12M contract...
I do think that Boozer would make a good Laker though.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
forget Portland
they deserve what they’re getting for that BS Darius Miles threat during the season. I’m tired of people trying to figure out ways for them to benefit from the Utah Jazz – Carlos Boozer situation.
Let them rot, I say. Then they can watch as other teams pick them clean for all that talent they drafted, but are getting wary of paying.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
C'MON L.O.
WTF Lamar? How can you possibly turn down a 3yr/$30 mil offer from the Lakers? Please don’t let your dumb ass agent brainwash you into thinking you can get more from the Lakers! Didn’t you see what happened to Ariza? L.A. is the place to be Lamar!!! I thought it was all about championships in Laker land!!! C’mon L.O., come to your senses, grab a pen, and sign that contract. I’m sure that Dr. Buss will put the offer back on the table if you show interest in signing!!!
odom needs to realize
that the lakers are already deep into the luxary tax and are willing to go deeper for him. the lakers also have a lot of players tied up long term. Kobe might get a 3 year extention this summer, bynum is on the books for at least 4 years, same as walton. artest is on for 5. gasol has 2 more and will most likely be resigned. sasha and brown have 2 more and farmar is gonna be up for an extention soon. that is a lot of money tied up long term. odom needs to realize that the lakers want some financial flexibility down the road and maybe that’s why they don’t want to give him 5 years
by Adamas on Jul 15, 2009 10:55 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
OK.
1. Maybe Odom doesn’t want to come off the bench and thinks he’s worth a $50mil+/5 yr (Hedo level) deal to a team that starts him.
2. Much as he loves LA maybe he’s tired of some aspects of the Lakers (Kobe always on his ass, etc.)
3. The Buss offer(s) are pretty fair so if LO leaves he’s the douche not Laker mgmt.
4. The LO wants to accept the offer but his agent won’t let him is all PR – letting the agent be the ‘bad guy’ so LO can avoid getting blamed.
5. As Ben R pointed out long ago if Portland gives him a huge contract they’ll be S-T-U-C-K with him. ‘Cause they won’t be able to trade him – imagine how that contract smells after 2-3 years.
6. Also, how exactly does he fit in Portland? They won’t play Greg Oden, LaMarcus Aldridge and Lamar Odom at the same time for the same reason the Lakers don’t play Bynum, Gasol & Odom together. So he sits on the bench behind Aldridge?
7. Hate to say it but I don’t think the Lakers beat Boston or the Magic without LO (and possibly the Blazers or Spurs are trouble).
8. Please just say no to Boozer.
If Odom really did not want to return to the Lakers...
then I think he would have made more of an effort to pursue other options during the off season. As it is now the only team that can give him anywhere close to the offer he turned his back on is the Blazers. And for some of the reasons you mentioned and many others I do not think he is a good fit there. There is also no way the Blazers are going to sign Lamar to a five year deal right now while they are holding out on B. Roy for that fifth year.
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
Oh yeah. I forgot about the trouble with extending B. Roy. You’re right that’s another reason I can’t imagine that they’d throw money at Lamar.
But I did read somewhere that Portland wants to use their current cap space to get one more marquee player before they have to extend Roy & Aldridge. Because after that they’ll be way over the cap. But I can’t imagine Lamar is that dude.
The dude is Kirk Hinrich or Mike Conley.
Whether KP gets there is anybody’s guess.
Agreed that Portland doesn’t want to do LO for 5 years at $10M.
But they would LOVE to make the Lakers do that deal!
And I’m not sure the Lakers could wave bye bye with the MLE already used.
How much do ya like Josh Powell?
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
the Blazers want to add talent
even if it’s borderline All-Star talent, because next season, with LA and Roy coming due, they can trade some of their many assets for a true superstar.
My feeling is that the Blazers are not completely confident with Aldridge as their second star. He’s not quite as clutch as they would like, and cannot carry the team if Roy is out with fouls or an injury. Just as the Hedo attempt didn’t make great sense, I believe they are hoping to parlay a free agent this year plus their young talent into a bigger star down the road.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
No, KP is 100% sold on LMA. The problem is they haven't had a low post masher off the bench for several years now, and it REALLY shows...
The problem is coming up with said bruiser…
The three guys in free agency this year who would fit the bill wonderfully were Lee, Bass, and Millsap.
Bass got away to Orlando for MLE-ish money, which seems criminal.
Lee wants $10M and the jury is still out whether he would accept moving from starter to backup. Maybe not.
Millsap is a PERFECT fit, but he is also Utah’s golden boy and they have a PF-centric offense. So there is no way that the Blazers can be rational and still throw enough money his way to get him to jump. As a RFA, Utah would be matching up to $10M/5 or something like that. And KP didn’t even come close to that bid; instead he tried to cheat a little with front-end loading to try to make the deal unpalatable to Utah. But it’s nothing that a quick bank loan won’t fix.
The bright side for the Blazers: they are virtually the only team in the NBA with cap space this season, so if there is a salary dump of any kind up to the deadline (think: Pau Gasol deal) they stand about a 50-50 to be the beneficiary.
They can also use their cap space to put the Lakers in an uncomfortable place with an Odom bid, like they did with the Millsap bid. Lakers are matching, as obviously as Utah is matching, so it’s a chance to punish a rival financially…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
They can also use their cap space to put the Lakers in an uncomfortable place with an Odom bid, like they did with the Millsap bid
timbo, this is where I think you don’t quite understand. Buss isn’t going to match an offer no matter how high it is just to retain Odom. Buss doesn’t care about that aspect. Right now he’s peeved because Odom is talking to others while not keeping the conversation alive between him and Odom. Therefore he took the offer off the table because he’s mad. Also Portland can’t offer more than what the Lakers have already offered, so the “driving the price up” aspect doesn’t hold true.
If you know anything about how Buss manages the Lakers organization you would know that he’s made it clear that NO PLAYER is bigger than the organization. He has always made sure players know they do not “make up” the Lakers. He’s made sure that the players know they need the Lakers more then the Lakers need them. When players don’t understand / agree with this concept they leave. Just like Ariza, and now if Lamar doesn’t learn he’ll be on his way out too. The best example of this is Shaq.
Shaq continued to demand more from Buss, so what did Buss do? He traded him. He traded a very dominant big man because he didn’t like the way Shaq constantly thought that Shaq made the Lakers. Shaq continued to think the Lakers needed Shaq more than then he needed the Lakers. So, Buss shipped him out. Whether or not Shaq really needed the Lakers more than the Lakers needed him is a moot point.
Buss is a no nonsense kind of guy. Right now, Lamar and Trevor both shot themselves in the foot. And Buss? You really think he’s going to panic and match the Blazer’s offer just because he might lose Lamar? Buss will be the one waiting at the doorstep, telling all these players to not let the door hit em’ on the way out.
Right on brother............or is it sister? Can't remember.....
Anyway, I agree. Buss isn’t taking anyone’s shit. Never has, never will. Odom overplayed his hand here. Fortunately for him he didn’t burn a bridge like Ariza did. Also there is no one to take Odom’s place like Artest which helps his cause. I don’t see him going anywhere else for less money (which he basically would have to) even if he gets an extra year thrown in.
If Kevin Pritchard has a brain (you would think he would) he won’t offer a contract unless he is willing to take it on. He has to know how Buss/Kupchak do business. If he makes a better offer (which would have to be 5 years /45 million approx) I think he is making a mistake. He still is negotiating with Roy and Aldridge and that would piss off both of them considering they haven’t offered Roy 5 years and Odom is 30 years old.
So basically that means Odom would have to take less money from a worse team (aren’t they all worse than the Lakers right now? :-) just to save face? I doubt it.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
LO for 5 years at $9M seems like value.
Blazers need another big, for sure.
More than they’d ideally want to pay, for sure.
But the Lakers are matching $45M/5, so make the offer…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Bear in mind also, Lakers without LO are easier for Portland with LO to get around...
And Lakers are one of about 5 teams in the West with a legit shot this season: inc. Dallas, Denver, Portland, San Antonio.
I like the chances of Blazers w/LO against that list. So LAL not matching might be a great blessing.
Does KP make the offer? 50-50 at best.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Dunno. The Lakers have tipped off the price they are willing to pay ($9M), Blazers can't drive that number up, but they can certainly make the terms more onerous (5 years, not 3; big cash up front).
Lakers had one card to play with the MLE. They’ve used it. Now it becomes “match or wave” for them with Lamar.
So how much worse are they with Josh Powell?
That’s the question.
And if the Lakers want to avoid the CHANCE (not certainty) of the Blazers making the situation less favorable, they need to get that deal done NOW.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Well I certainly think the Lakers are worse without Odom, but.......
I think Artest (if he doesn’t go Crazy Pills) is sort of a combo of Odom and Ariza. In other words he can replace both albeit not completely. As for Powell, I am not too concerned. He is a good player, he just didn’t get much of a chance to play last season. Not Odom certainly, but to me Artest and Powell isn’t much worse than Ariza and Odom.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Its not that the blazers can or cannot drive the price up, Its that buss has made it clear he’s not going to drive the price up anymore. He says if Lamar wants to re-sign he’s going to LOWER the price, you really think this is a guy that cares if Portland does or does not make an offer?
And if the Lakers want to avoid the CHANCE (not certainty) of the Blazers making the situation less favorable, they need to get that deal done NOW.
Buss isn’t scared about the blazers making an offer, matter of factly he doesn’t care what Portland does. This is an owner that traded Shaq.
So true, Buss doesn't care
what anyone else does and he has made a better offer to Lamar than anyone else is going to.
The Blazers can not offer more than 9 mil and they would have to cut some European players to do that. If they are holding out on a fifth year on their golden boy Roy there is no way they are going to offer Lamar a five year deal.
Best case for the Lakers Lamar resigns- Worst Case: Sign and Trade. Anything else would mean Lamar is taking a far worse deal, than what the Lakers have offered, out of spite. He can not be that petty.
Can he?
Wherever I go, that's where I am.
frontloading won't work
Not with LA, unlike Utah. LA is already well committed to the luxury tax this next season. Paying a big bill to continue a championship run is not the issue.
What is the issue is 3 to 5 years down the line. Lamar is 30. He won’t be nearly as good as he is now at 33-35, once his ballhandling and speed have eroded. And a front loaded contract actually does the Lakers more favors, as the last years of the contract will be much smaller than usual for that amount of money.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Oh yeah.
6a. Imagine if LO goes to Portland their announcers will need to keep Odom and Oden straight and Lamar and LaMarcus straight. It would be fun to listen to even though I’m a Blazer hater.
9. And if Lamar does come back I hope he doesn’t spend too many all-nighters in Hollywood with his bud Artest discussing how underpaid they are.
Mike Rice can't even remember Greg Oden's name as it is— he just calls him "the big guy."
No shit.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Artest says he didn't care about the money
So my hope is he’s calling Lamar up right now and saying something like this:
“Yo dawg, I just saw on ESPN that the Lakers bailed on their latest offer. I heard it was for $9 mil. WTF? I took $6 million to come here, and you can’t even take $9 million to be a BENCH player??”
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Is David Lee (Ariza's agent) related to LO's agent?
lol….BASTARDS! I still think that his agent is advising him to wait until the Millsap deal goes through before he signs with the Lakers. They are trying to squeeze as much money out of his free agency status. Similar to what J. Kidd did with the Mavs which is to use the Knicks’ offer as leverage.
Either way, no one player is greater than any organization especially one as great as the Laker organization. So, I am glad that the Lakers pulled the offer. F Him! Let him go to any other team.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jul 15, 2009 11:48 AM PDT reply actions
I believe that
I do believe his agent told him to stonewall LA to stress them out, maybe up the offer, and if not, then they can still wait till Portland comes back with their money and gives him an offer.
Portland is being used often this off-season as a price setter. I love it. :)
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Where else will Lamar go? Nowhere.
He’ll re-sign with the Lakers. If not, the Lakers should explore a sign and trade with Miami.
I'm tired of this ongoing saga forget Lamar, if he did turn down these offers as reported
Lakers can look at those who are available now and can fit in with our bench mob because its the second unit that would be hurt the most if we lose Lamar so we need scoring so those who I wouldn’t mind taking the dufus(Lamar) spot is Linas Kleiza, Al Harrington- both have size and can stretch the floor and hit the 3 point shot and Ramon Sessions- I know we have a handful of guards already but dude can score the ball and he would be a nice addition then we can get rid of some of the losers we do have on this roster.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Yeah, but.................
We can’t sign ANYONE but Lamar to a decent contract. The ONLY way to sign a decent player now is a sign and trade, but that isn’t easy to pull off. (Also we may end up paying more than we wanted to anyway).
It’s Odom, sign and trade, or no one.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
really i Linas Klieza gonna demand lots of money?
I don’t know the money part works out but why can’t one of those players take the 9 mil offer for 4 years?
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
The Lakers have the Bird Rights of Odom.
So they are able to sign Odom to a large amount of money and trade him to a different. They can’t sign and trade with any other free agent because they don’t own his rights. The Lakers have used their MLE when they signed Artest. The MLE is an exception given to teams who are over the salary cap. The Lakers used a Bi-Annual Exception when they re-signed Shannon Brown. The Lakers did not own Brown’s Bird Rights. I’m not sure why exactly; maybe somebody can explain that to ya. So the Lakers can only sign players for minimum salary. The Lakers have no cap space to sign Linas Kleiza. Plus, he’s a restricted free agent, meaning the Nuggets can match any offer given by the other team.
Hopefully, this helps. I’m wrong on some of the info, lol.
The reason the Lakers did not have the Bird rights to Brown
was because it takes three years with the same team to get Bird rights, which can be transferred via trade. After his second year, during which he was traded to Chicago, he was a restricted free agent. The Bulls chose not to extend a qualifying offer, and thus he became an unrestricted free agent. Had Chicago kept him on for the third year of his rookie deal, he would have gotten Bird rights with the Bulls. Instead, Charlotte signed him to a one year deal, resetting his Bird clock, and then traded him in the middle of that season to the Lakers. At the conclusion of his recently signed two year deal at the BAE, he will have Bird rights with the Lakers.
Thats help I know nothing with these contract stuff but Lamar just needs to come back and cut this shit out
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Kleiza is a restriced free agent.
The Lakers can only offer the Veteran’s Minimum Exception to free agents from other teams, since they are over the cap and already used their MLE and BAE. There’s no way Kleiza would take the minimum, because the Nuggets’ qualifying offer is way more. And if he was to take the minimum offer from the Lakers (to put it kindly, a terrible business move), the Nuggets would match it in a heartbeat and thank the Lakers for that gift.
The Lakers can still sign players to veteran minimum salary.
Think Joe Smith, Drew Gooden, and Chris Wilcox for example. The amount varies depending on the number of years a player has been in the league and age.
True, but I am looking at impact players of Odom's caliber.
The only way to do that is with the sign and trade. Boozer is the only one that comes to mind now. I suppose Beasley wouldn’t be a bad option, but we would have to take on another (probably bad) contract.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Oh, I see. My bad. No doubt,
if the Lakers lose Odom, they take a step back. How big of a step it is, is the question?
Sign and trade is the best avenue to get value for Odom. If they Lakers land Beasley with some scrub contract, they’ll be fine, IMO. James Jones could fit the bill. I think his contract is partially guaranteed for this season so they Lakers can waive without the massive cap hit.
That is the question.
Putting on my Blazer hat now, if I’m KP — assuming Utah matches on Millsap Friday, which they will — I would definitely make a really ugly offer to Odom on Monday… As many chips as I could throw at him in a really rotten, front-loaded deal. Keep the Lakers broke for a long time…
There’s really no way the Lakers can NOT match at this point. They don’t have to bid against themselves, but if LO signs an offer sheet, they pretty much DO have to match that… They don’t have the MLE, they don’t have a bunch of top notch youngsters on the bench, they don’t have much in the way of trade bait, unless some moron team wants Sasha or the Stache at $5M per…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Millsap and Odom situations are different
Just because Portland offers Odom a toxic front loaded contract doesn’t mean that Lakers have to pay Odom that. They can finally be forced to the table to give him closer to what he really wanted, because now the threat of leaving is really there. The Lakers aren’t scared of Odom taking a MLE deal, he loses out on those. And the Lakers have to participate in a S&T, so they still hold the cards in that regard.
The only threat is Portland.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Yeah I totally agree.....
If Portland offers say 5 years 45 million (9 million per) and the lakers counter with say 4 years 40 million (10 million per year) that puts the ball in Odom’s court. If he takes Portlands offer then he gets stuck in Portland (LOL) and Portland gets stuck with his contract. Plus Odom gets to be the bad guy so Fuck him.
I don’t think many Laker fans would blame the organization for that one. They apparently already offered him 4 years 36 million so it is in the realm of possibility.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Oh yeah, I forgot — Odom is a UFA, not a RFA, which is acutally BETTER for the Lakers in this situation.
Portland can make a front-loaded offer and Lakers can say, screw you, we’ll pay you the same money not front loaded, and LO has to pick.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
True, but.......
technically they can offer anything and Odom still has to pick.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I'd actually prefer a frontloaded contract
It actually helps out LA, might make a longer contract more appealing. However, because he’s UFA, there’s no need to actually match a front loaded contract.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Wait how much cap do the Blazers have?
I thought it was $7.7 million with Darius Miles contract and the rookie contracts.
I believe by renouncing the rights to a couple of players that they have........
about 8.7 million. Timbo, is that correct?
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
In really round numbers, I think they can get to $8.4 or something with one more renouncement; something close to $9M by renouncing a guy they don't want to renounce.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
However, they have a great guru of capology on the staff (Tom Penn) and there might be shenanigans not readily apparent that they could pull. Every number has a question mark after it.
I’d figure $8.4 or 8.5M is pretty much top end for the first year though.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
They also have one more guy on the team that they are looking to move in the right trade, so they could beef the number up a little bit with that deal if they structure it right.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Maybe Lamear really doesn't want to play for lakers
I think the season was to hard on him because Kobe and the guys were driving him to hard, and with Ron coming in he knows it will be tougher. Just think of all the Bong hits he missed on the road this year oh the horror of having to be an aware person of society.
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions
Odom's Contract,
I must admitt that at first I hoped Odom received his full contract,But as this sega goes on,I would not go over 9mil, (IF I HAD IT) in his contract, he would have to average at least a double in points and rebounds ,To get any kind of a bonus deal,he’s a great fit for the team but come on,He’s not Mr basketball without a mega star,,And he does desevre the money but,Don’t get the money and just give up,Remember Miami wanted Shaq, So they traded you once,And in portland they don’t really need you, Dallas doesn’t know what to do with you,It’s not always about the money,you not broke right..
Well said, Dex
Very well said. The fact is that there likely is no other team that can offer Lamar what the Lakers can. And I don’t think he’s foolish enough to pull a Trevor Ariza — less money AND a less appealing situation (not in L.A., not on a contender) — especially after seeing what happened to Ariza.
As for this rumor that Odom wants to accept, but hasn’t convinced his agent… WTF? Someone want to explain to me how this is even possible Is there a part of sports business I’ve just completely missed out on?
Doesn’t the dude work for Odom? Isn’t Odom the boss? If Odom’s made a decision, who is the agent to say anything?
Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
I got this from LA Times Laker blog. It makes some sense.
“UPDATE (9:05 am)- On the subject of LO being unable to “convince” Schwartz, Kurt at Forum Blue and Gold makes a great observation, one I didn’t think of last night when I was writing: “That is how you communicate with a player through the media. You give him an out — it’s not you, we still love you, it’s the agent. As many have said, if Odom wanted to accept the deal, he just tells his agent to and it’s over. This is on Odom, he chose not to.” As we’ve talked about, rarely is something said by “sources” regarding a free agent that doesn’t have some sort of meaning or motive behind it. This is a reasonable explanation for those comments worth considering."
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Yeah. Bottom line it is Odom’s deal. If he wants it then it gets done. If the Lakers or Odom’s camp try to deflect blame onto his agent it is just a PR move to avoid making Odom the ‘bad guy’.
I’d be happy if Jerry Buss stuck Portland with Odom at 5yr/$50mil even if it costs the Lakers a repeat this year.
But without Odom it kinda sucks. I mean who guards Dirk, KG, Aldridge, etc.
Pau guards those guys
Really, alot of this would be kind of moot if Bynum would take his job seriously.
But like it’s been said.. you can never have too many big men.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
The No State-Income Tax Argument
We heard this in the Trevor Ariza fiasco, so I thought I might touch on it since we’re now stressing about Odom. Some fans, both LA, Dallas, and Miami, are mentioning how Odom can make more money playing for Dallas or Miami than he could in LA, simply because of the no state-income tax argument.
First off, California may be expensive, but their STATE INCOME tax is not 30%. I believe it is roughly about 10.8% for someone who makes over $1 million.
Secondly, a player pays state taxes based on where the game was played, not where your employer resides.
Finally, two disclaimers. I already posted this on MavsMoneyBall, so it is pretty much verbatim to what I posted there. The second disclaimer is, this is estimation math mostly. I’m guessing high on some numbers (like the average state tax #s). But it’s all to give a little dose of reality to the argument. Here we go:
The Lakers play 47 games in California (41 home, 2 each against the Clippers, Kings, and Warriors). The Lakers play 6 games in Texas, and 2 in Florida. Total games that are state-taxed is 74.
The Mavericks play 45 games in Texas, plus two more games in Florida, for 47 un-taxed games. State-taxed games comes to 35.
Now let’s assume, for ease of argument, and to place a high limit on the numbers, that every state has a 10% state income tax.
So let’s say the Lakers pay Odom $10 million. A $10 million dollar contract is broken down into $121,951.22 per game. The tax cost is $12,195.12 per game. Now, as established, the Lakers play at most 74 games that are state-taxed. Total cost is of taxes is $902,438.88 over the course of the season.
Now, let’s take two scenarios. The Mavs pay Odom $6.5 million, and $10 million as the other scenario. Remember, the Mavs have 35 taxed games in the season.
In scenario one ($6.5 million), Odom receives $79,268.29 per game. Tax cost is $7,926.83 per game. Total cost is $277,439.05 for the season.
In scenario two ($10 million), A Odom’s total cost for away games is $426,829.20 over the course of the season.
Ok, so now the grand totals.
Lakers: Odom receives $9,097,561.12 after state taxes (but before federal taxes, agent fees, etc.)
Mavs: Scenario 1 pays Odom $6,222,560.95 while Scenario 2 pays him $9,573,170.80.
As you can see, there is no significant gain by avoiding state income taxes. Their alot lower than you think. To counter any contracts from Florida or Texas, teams merely need to add about 10-12% more to the yearly totals on the contract to counter-act the "no state-income tax" argument.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
Are you sure?
Mainly about being taxed by the state you play in. That doesn’t sound right. LO is domiciled in Cali and he works for a Cali Corp. I think Cali can charge LO for every game. I think you may be wrong on that. But I still agree with your point, taxes and the paying them aren’t decided what LO is gonna do.
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Jul 15, 2009 4:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
*
Taxes and the issue of paying them aren’t deciding where LO is gonna sign
Bills make me wanna SHOUT!
by silverstreak3k on Jul 15, 2009 4:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Read this
This comprehensive article by Alan Pogroszewski details the affects of non-resident taxes by states on professional athletes.
Essentially what we are talking about is a jock tax. Accordingly, “The tax, which emerged in the 1990s to tap the huge paychecks of visiting professional athletes…” (Rick VanderKnyff, “”http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P112872.asp" >Could you be hit by the ‘jock tax’?")
While the actualities of the laws are complicated, what I have listed above is the general gist of the argument. While reading through it, I also discovered that Washington and Tennessee both do not tax nonresidents, just like Texas and Florida.
There are also “Reciprocal agreements between states to not tax each other’s nonresidents are found in seven of the fourteen states that tax individuals alleviating both burden and compliance issues for the taxpayers and the collectors. Michigan and Pennsylvania have entered into six reciprocal agreements with other states, while Ohio and Wisconsin have agreements with five, Illinois has four and Maryland has two.” (Alan Pogroszewski, “When is a CPA as Important as Your ERA? A Comprehensive Evaluation and Examination of State Tax Issues on Professional Athletes”, pg 14/408).
This whole situation is complicated, but I do agree with your other post… Taxes and the issue of paying them aren’t deciding where Lamar is going to sign. And maybe we should start applying this to more contracts signed by free agents going to Texas or Florida… but since everyone hates taxes, this is something easy for media talking heads to drone on about for days when they can discern the real reason a free agent signed with a particular franchise.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
argh
dunno why the second link to Rick VanderKnyff’s article Could you be hit by the ‘jock tax’? I think it might have been because the link text was within quotations.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
More on Buss and the way he negotiates.
If he isn’t careful, Lamar Odom is about to find out the same thing that Gary Payton, Shaquille O’Neal and Trevor Ariza found out the hard way.
You can’t “leverage” Jerry Buss.
Buss wants to keep Odom, and made him several offers to try and do so. According to Brad Turner of the LA Times, Buss most recently offered a deal for $9 million a season for four years at $36 million, or $10 million a season over three years for a total of $30 million.
But Odom and Schwartz didn’t even respond—and now Buss has pulled all offers.
If you think Buss won’t walk away, you’re wrong. Remember, this is a guy who traded Shaq after making the Finals four out of five years and winning three times. Above all else, he’s a gambler who knows numbers. He’s reached his limit and is ready to walk away.
what other examples do we have?
You’ve mentioned Shaq (about a hundred times), and we know about Ariza (although I think that was more due to David Lee…), I don’t remember the Payton issue…. but what about during the other 30 years? This past decade can’t be the only times that Buss has put his foot down over free agents or current players.
And I almost just linked to that very same article, lol! Nice!
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
what does buss have a doctorate in?nevermind…apparently it is in chemistry and used to teach at usc.
Yah thats why he doesn't just let go of the money that he actually earned.
Unlike people like Cassey Wasserman ( money from Mom’s dad)
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 16, 2009 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
And did you know that when he sign Magic to a first even million dollar deal.
He said the money is ok I will just put 25 million in a account and pay him on interest!
Paul D. Kelley
by so.cal.native1952 on Jul 16, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
no odom = no repeat
simple as that
unless bynum emerges as a dominant centre, which i doubt will happen so soon
According to Ric Bucher on Twitter,
Neither LO nor his agent has ever asked for 5 yrs, 50m. LO wants a 4th yr or 4 for 36. That’s the hang-up.
That would seem to run counter to what we’ve heard from Shelburne and Turner of the Daily News and Times, respectively.
And Shelburne on Twitter has a couple of things:
Made some calls on LO’s Miami option and Heat’s interest is real but just at MLE . Who would turn down $11 million player for half price?
So let that be the end of the Beasley discussion for now, please.
(in response to: “@ramonashelburne Regarding LO, I’ve read from Bucher and Pincus that the hang up is LA offered 3 yrs and LO asked for 4…is that accurate?”) LA went to 4 years eventually, then pulled the offer
And also:
The craziest part is thinking back on conversations I had last Friday about when LO’s press conference would be. That’s how close they were.
Oh, and one more Shelburne:
In response to:
@ramonashelburne says 4yr 36m offer was rejected, but @RicBucher says LO wants that exact offer – who’s info is right???
she wrote
@therealojv I was told by ET that Lakers had offered 4/$36 and LO’s pple didn’t respond
Who is ET?
I was just about to post this up
This is a very interesting article. There seems to be a lot of insight into these rumors. I try not believe this stuff but it does seem like a possibility for the Heat to attempt to sign LO and at the same time work out a three team deal to get Boozer. I guess that is another attempt to please Wade. I think the Boozer deal gets done but the LO deal to the Heat seems less likely. I would think that he would prefer to go to the Blazers. Especially if the Millsap deal falls thourgh and the Jazz match the Blazer’s offer. I really believe that LO’s destiny will be solved by this Friday or Saturday.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
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