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Making Sense of These Lakers

With the exception of Game 4 in Utah in the first round, virtually all of my predictions regarding the Lakers have been wrong.

I thought the playoffs would motivate them to play at a high level in Game 1 against Utah. That lasted about half a game. I thought their disappointing performance in Game 1 would cause them to play harder in Game 2. Didn't happen. I thought their first road game in the playoffs, against a very good home team in a very hostile arena, would keep them on their guard. So much for that idea. Game 4? They came out and took care of business, as I expected. But in Game 5 they were right back to losing big leads.

I was willing to excuse their play against the Jazz. It's hard to take a series seriously when, no matter what you tell yourself, you know that it's virtually impossible that you'll lose it. But the Rockets? I expected them to actually take this team seriously. Maybe it was rust, but they sure didn't seem to have it in Game 1 of this second round.

And now, Game 2. The truth? I am thoroughly confused. We came out on fire, and then cooled off just as quickly. We played excellent defense through most of the game, but weren't able to keep the Rockets from hitting shots. We neutralized Yao Ming, and somehow struggled much more when he was off the court than when he was on it. Pau Gasol, in particular, played better against Yao. And Ron Artest? An efficient offensive scorer for two games in a row? Alright, I give up — what's going on here?!

For days now, I just haven't known what to make of the Lakers. The question of motivation seemed to be less relevant with every poor performance, every lead blown, every unexpected loss. But I think I've figured it out. I think I understand what this Lakers team's problem is.

Star-divide

Middle school and high school were easy for me. I excelled without really trying. While my classmates were working their asses off, I was procrastinating and throwing together homework at the last minute. I didn't take notes, I didn't study (except in biology; that class kicked my ass), and I gave the speech at graduation.

It wasn't that I was some sort of genius. Like anyone else, I was good at some things, not so good at others. It just so happened that I had the specific skills it took to excel in school — namely, writing ability and test taking skills. You'd be surprised how much you can get by without knowing, if you can write well and have excellent test taking skills. (Sidenote: What does it say about our education system, that the skills that allow you to succeed are less about studying and learning, and more about beating the system?)

As a result, I've been a slacker for most of my life. I never needed a daily, scheduled time in the evenings to do homework and study for tests. I never learned time management skills, and I can be a bit short on self-discipline. Why? Because I didn't need them.

Well guess what? Now, in adult life, those skills would be really useful to me. A lot of what I'm trying to do with my career, my personal life, and this blogging thing I've thrown myself into, would be infinitely easier if I had even the meagerest of time management skills, along with perhaps a bit more self-discipline and motivation. And I'm trying, really hard. I know what I'm supposed to do, and I'm working my ass off. But man, oh man, is it hard to change such strongly established ways, and the skills I need aren't acquired overnight.

What does this have to do with the Lakers? Everything!

I have been waiting for the Lakers to "wake up," as though the realization of their or the shock of a loss that shouldn't have been would instantly motivate them, transforming them overnight into the team they are supposed to be. But that's not going to happen. Like me in high school, they have a particular skill set that allowed them to succeed in the regular season. It wasn't necessarily about playing their best basketball, it was about what it took to get the wins, and for the Lakers, it took less. Like me, that natural talent allowed them to slack off, and they weren't forced to work as hard as other teams to establish good habits and patterns. But in the end, these are things that they are going to need, if they want to attain the highest level of success — an NBA championship. Now, the ease with which they sailed through the regular season threatens to bite them in the ass.

The problem is that they have 82 games worth of bad habits to overcome. Just as it has been so hard for me to become a disciplined person, with well-developed time management skills, after such a long time of getting by without, so too will it be a struggle for the Lakers to find the motivation and self-discipline to play at a high level on both ends of the court. It's not going to happen overnight.

And this is why I'm thankful for the Rockets.

For 87 games, the Lakers were rarely challenged. They got by almost entirely on talent, and despite harder work by other teams, they coasted fairly easily to the best record in the West, and then dispatched of their first round opponent without ever really playing that well. If they get to the Finals without ever being forced to learn self-discipline, find motivation, and put in the effort, they will lose. They cannot win a Finals matchup against the Cavaliers or Magic (sorry Celtics, I'm just not buying it) on talent alone.

In their heads, they seem to know this. They say all the right things. But their play says differently. Either they subconsciously don't actually believe that anyone from the West can beat them, or they are having a hard time translating that belief into action, having established a pattern of winning on talent rather than effort. In all likelihood, it is some of both.

After the Lakers' Game 1 loss to the Rockets, Kobe Bryant described them as a challenge that the Lakers need in order to prepare them for what is to come. As he described it, last year they waltzed unchallenged into the Finals, and when they arrived there, they were untested, unprepared to cope with a team that presented a true challenge. The result is something we all wish we could forget.

The good news is that that is not likely to happen again this year. The Rockets are "for real." They are tough, they are strong, they give 110% effort every game, and they are a very, very good team. The Lakers will not simply be able to overwhelm them with talent. To beat them, they will have to try. They will have to try hard. If the Lakers beat them, the Nuggets will be waiting, and they won't be a walk in the park. And if they beat the Nuggets, they will arrive to the NBA Finals battle tested, fully aware of what it takes to win at the highest levels.

The bad news, of course, is that they'll have to get by the Rockets first. Can anyone believe that some of us predicted the Lakers would take the series in five games? I predicted six, but after losing the first game at home, that will require that the Lakers win not one, but two of the three games in Houston. It has been enough of a challenge winning in Los Angeles.

Don't expect the Lakers to suddenly pull a sustained, high-level effort out of their pockets, as though it was there all along. A long season has taught them that they can win games based on talent, and that will be a difficult mindset to erradicate. But if they make it past Houston, we will know that they have taken a large step closer towards being prepared for what they will face in the Finals.

Should we get that far, we will look back with gratitude on the present challenge that is this Houston Rockets team.

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honestly

i think ron artest is hot right now. i think that will change. i think the lakers defensive rotations are slow, and not very good. i think having brown and fisher or brown and farmar is really helping when they have their small set in. i think bynum has let the brace into his head, and i think he gets called for cheap fouls alot, im not sure why. also the lakers are shooting horribly from 3 point land. i mean come on, thats gotta change right? i think the lakers are ok, i think the officiating is a little suspect, i mean 6 fouls in less than 4 minutes in the 4th yesterday? i thought that was almost impossible. i think the bench comes back, we start making threes and if they want to stop houstons scoring, they will HAVE to rotate better. overall 1-1 going into houston doesnt scare me. down 3-1 coming back to LA will. must split these next two i would think.

Bills make me wanna SHOUT!

by silverstreak3k on May 7, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If LA can win Game 3 w/o Fisher

They’ll probably win this series. It’d be a dagger for Kobe to go to Houston and take that first game shorthanded, and for Houston not to take advantage of this opportunity.

Bork bork bork!

by Avinash on May 7, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not entirely convinced that not having Fisher is such a bad thing...

His shot has been way off… he struggles to keep up with Brooks… I like Farmar and UPS better for this matchup. Which is why it was a great foul by Fisher.

16...15...14...13...12...12...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, not a devastating loss

But Fisher handles the ball better in the halfcourt. Plus he was good at funnelling Brooks into the D.

Not saying Farmar and Brown can’t do that, but are they great at turning Brooks into the help D?

Bork bork bork!

by Avinash on May 7, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

i think farmar did very well against brooks, from what i saw last night. his quickness is a real asset against brooks.

Bills make me wanna SHOUT!

by silverstreak3k on May 7, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point

I think Fisher’s experience is invaluable, but Farmar and Vujacic are young guns who bring a lot of energy (hopefully positive). could be interesting to see them playing substantial minutes against Brooks and the other Rockets guards…

by Frankie_JHawk on May 7, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mister Motivation PJ is gonna love going without Fisher...

…………………… and it is going to be a GREAT opportunity to really see what they’ve got in UPS and to see whether Farmar is much longer for this world…

The only way I see the Fisher suspension as mattering all that much is if Shannon Brown gets in foul trouble fast and Jordan crashes and burns under the hot klieg lights of playoff pressure.

They’ve be fine.

Fisher did what he felt needed to be done and he did it well.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on May 7, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

** they'll **

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on May 7, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hi Timbo

Guess we’ll find out if the Lakers are really like the Blazers Friday night, eh?

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It will be most interesting, for sure.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on May 7, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something that's not being talked about enough

Is how poorly the Rockets played following Fisher’s foul. Go back and look at who the Lakers had out there for the big majority of the 4th quarter and you’ll see that Odom didn’t play the final 9 minutes, and Ariza sat the whole 4th quarter till he was inserted with 43 seconds left. Meanwhile, the Rockets had Yao play the whole 4th quarter until that dead ball with 43 seconds left, and yet the Lakers really ran circles around Houston for that whole period. In a road playoff game that you’re losing by only 8 with 8 minutes to go, that kind of flat performance really should raise some eyebrows, and I think it would be if not for all the other stories out there about the ejections and such.

Fisher made a statement with that foul, and from that point on the Rockets just packed it in. Even worse than the lack of effort they displayed was the lack of composure on their part (specifically Von Wafer and Artest). Everyone is expecting the Rockets to come out hard in the next game, but to me that was a make or break moment when Fisher committed that foul, and the Lakers stepped up while the Rockets folded. Stay tuned.

by WildYams on May 7, 2009 3:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent point

When things started getting chippy, technical fouls started flying, players started getting pissed off, I turned to my wife and said, “This is good — Kobe Bryant teams respond well to chippy play and trash talking, because Kobe himself does.”

It’s like what Kobe did against Denver last year, which I wrote about at the time: He took them to a place where only he could succeed, and where they would self-destruct.

The vast majority of players don’t play well under those circumstances. They get psyched out, frustrated, pissed off, and it negatively affects their games. Kobe plays better when he’s frustrated or pissed off. And as he goes, so do the Lakers.

16...15...14...13...12...12...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I was telling anyone who would listen that this game will benefit the Lakers. Even in my Credit, I made mention of the Lakers being very good in chippy games.

I think it continues into Houston, because when games get chippy and both teams are willing to be chippy, the talent wins out. We have a lot more talent, and now we excel in these games.

by wondahbap on May 7, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does this sound crazy to you guys?

Obviously if the refs are in “let them play mode” it benefits physical teams like the Rockets, Celtics, etc. and makes it harder for the Lakers offense to operate in a fluid manner. Plus teams with a physical reputation can often get more latitude from the officials.

Conversely, if the refs are calling the game closely then defenders have to back off a bit and it opens things up offensively for a finesse team like the Lakers.

So, in the middle of the 3rd the refs were in “let them play mode” and the Rockets were draped all over the Lakers etc. The 3 technical fouls & Fish’s flagrant / ejection made the refs call things extra tight.

When the refs switched to calling the game tighter it put the Rocket’s defense back on it’s heals and opened things up a bit for the Lakers and contributed to the win.

So maybe in a future game, when the Rockets D is mucking things up, the Lakers can get a little extra chippy to make the refs call the game tighter again???

Just a thought.

by olf on May 7, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's an interesting theory

Might be some truth to it

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Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it will be a very, very, very tightly called game 3...

Not sure who this benefits. The way to beat the Rockets is to RUN and a parade to the foul line is half court city…

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on May 7, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point. Perhaps we only push the physicality if the refs are in ‘let them play mode’ and the Lakers are getting smothered. Maybe it’s a way to change things up.

re: game 3, I also think that there’s a great chance of Gasol or LO getting in foul trouble on the road, which would be a disaster.

by olf on May 7, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At some point, Phil has to remember Mbenga, does he not?

I have no idea why he has sent DJ to the end of the bench for DNP-CD after DNP-CD…

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on May 7, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've wondered about Mbenga, too

He’s a widebody that won’t get pushed around and six more fouls, if nothing else.

by illcowboy on May 7, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fouls are not a good thing

We have enough trouble keeping Yao off the line without Benga in.

by Justin N. on May 7, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand

I’m just thinking about keeping Pau, Odom, and Bynum from getting some of those. But, yes, Yao isn’t Shaq. He’ll kill you at the line.

by illcowboy on May 7, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got to worry about the offensive end

If mbenga hasnt played alot, hes not going to get time in the playoffs, that would be stupid. he is young, inexperienced, and not great on the offensive end. I think he would be tough to find a lineup to put him with that would stay good offensively.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He played for a stretch

During the regular season and I thought he gave some quality minutes. But, yes, he would be your fifth option. He gets alot of hustle plays, but like Vujacic, he’s a fouling machine. He’d be a 5-10 minute guy.

by illcowboy on May 7, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some food for thought from the Rockets perspective.

I know its a cliche and heard alot, but all season long the Rockets have played extremely well after a tough loss. Recently for example, we lost to the Mavs on the final night of the reg season, but followed that up with the blowout in Portland. In game 5 vs Portland the rockets struggled offensively, but came back in game 6 and played a great game. Going home to Houston, where they are 21-2 in the last 23, with the great home crowd where they play great defense, you should expect the rockets’ best game in game 3.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a coin flip now!

Teams with home court advantage that have lost Game 1 but won Game 2 have gone on to win the series 53.2% of the time …

If you believe the future follows the past in the same pattern, then it’s a coin flip as to who wins the series.

But I don’t believe it. I have no idea what to expect. But I will be watching …

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahaha kinda confusing..

you say history shows its a coin flip, but you dont believe it, but then you say you dont know what to expect. If you dont know what to expect isnt that the same thing as a coin flip??

I think its a coin flip. Obviously the easiest thing for the Rockets would be to win out at home, but i still believe houston can win another in Staples. I just hope the series is played cleanly from here on out so people will talk about the basketball and not the controversy. And its more fun to see when they are good and clean.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lakers keep looking unmotivated..

maybe this last game will finally wake them up? my main gripe with these lakers is that they have gotten it in their heads that they can out-offense everyone so there are stretches where we lose focus and discipline on defense. maybe a little intensity will tighten the screws. and hopefully derek gets his jump shot more consistent with a little time off.

i think we take game 3 with the momentum from game 2, and we have shown to be a great road team this year.

by whorge on May 7, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Game 1 woke them up

they played fairly well last night, and Game two should have shaken off all the grogginess.

5 wins down.... 11 more to go

by black mamba on May 7, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The defense was actually very good last night

The Rockets just made shots like crazy. Hard shots. Making shots like nobody’s business. Especially 3s. The 3s kept them in the game.

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Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have to disagree with the 3's comment

The Rockets averaged a little more than 8 three’s a game this season on a franchise record 37.5% shooting. Last night the Rockets made 9 three’s on 37.5% shooting. Sounds pretty average 3 pointer wise to me for the Rockets. Yeah Artest was above average last night, but ABZ was 3-9, poor for him, and lowry shot 3 which is alot for him.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lowry also missed all 3

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose there's no arguing with the facts

The numbers aren’t nearly what I thought they were. It was purely objective, and I confess that I didn’t look them up before making my comment. I guess it just seemed that every time the Lakers were looking to blow the game open, the Rockets seemed to be nailing 3s left and right. Contested ones, too. Guess that was just a strange perception issue, and the facts don’t bear it out as I had thought while in the moment.

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Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I think that's fine and valid

Your perceptions sometimes incorporate more information than the pure statistics do (and it can work against you too, incorporating information that wasn’t there).

This happens with assists a lot. I’ll think that the Lakers contained an opposing PG pretty well, only to see that he ended up with double digit assists. But I would trust my perception more than the raw assists in that case.

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's a coin flip

Because a coin flip is purely based on luck. Basketball is a game of skill, physical (and mental) toughness, and intelligence. May the best team win.

5 wins down.... 11 more to go

by black mamba on May 7, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is that we won't know which is which

Until we have some hindsight.

From here, you can’t discern.

I can speculate, but yeah it’s not really 50/50, but it’s all relative to the observer.

A supreme being would know. Even a coin flip to Him (Her?) would not be 50/50.

But I am not a supreme being (at least, I don’t think I am).

So, to the observers who only use the past as a gauge, it’s 53/47.

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not that the actual result is 50/50

It’s that our ability to predict it is about 50/50

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Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we can say with certainty that you are not a supreme being

After all, if you were, you would know it.

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Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats what she said

5 wins down.... 11 more to go

by black mamba on May 8, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't resist

5 wins down.... 11 more to go

by black mamba on May 8, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure how...

you can be so confident that the rockets can win in staples. everything from the regular season and the recovery in game 2 seems to point to the fact that unless the Lakers play absolutely horrible or the rockets shoot the lights out then the rockets CAN’T win at staples. So is it possible? Of course. Is it probably or something you can be remotely confident about? I sure hope not.

by rshinsec on May 8, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The reason im confident is because the regular season matchups dont matter

While they do show how the teams played against each other in the reg, the teams that are playing now, arent the teams that matched up in the regular season. Not one of the regular season matchups had the rosters that the teams have now. The two closest were the last two, but they still werent full.

I think the lakers played really well in game 2, the rockets played poorly, but it was still kinda close. If the rockets play a game of great defense in staples, it would be winnable.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can Ron Artest and Carl Landry Keep Play any better?

Do not automatically expect the Rockets to play any better. I mean Yao Ming has shown that he has problems when being fronted with speed and size and guess what? Pay Gasol has more length than Joel and Oden and he doesnt have as much bulk so he has MORE speed. He would give Yao fits on both ends of the court because he can spread the floor with the free throw line jump shot and can outquick and hence get some fouls on Yao

Now there is NO WAY Artest keeps up the hot shooting because he is a streaky dude. He was hitting everything from 3 at the end of the shot clock last night, even with lamar in his face. Just as Ariza couldn’t keep up his shooting from 3 against the Jazz, I don’t see how Artest keeps bailing your offense. And by the way, if Kobe guards artest which he does in the 4th, Artest isn’t doing nothing. Carl Landry WOULD ALWAYS have his hustle but how many of the 17 feet jumpshots would be keep draining? Your hopes for the series sure doesn’t lie on the shoulders of a role player.

by Emeka on May 7, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do expect artest and landry to come back to earth some

but yes, you should expect landry to hit those jumpers. Scola too. The Rockets are built to play well with each other. Both PF’s can knock down outside jumpers. The PG’s compliment each other well, one who can score, one who can drive, dish, and rebound. Artest and Battier can both hit shots and defend a star. Yao is Yao. Our bench is very energetic, as you saw in the second quarter yesterday.

With all that being said. Even if Landry and Artest come back to earth a little, another Rocket will step up. Its a team of role players surrounding Yao. Our hopes dont lie on the shoulders of a role player, they lie on the shoulders of many role players. Im not worried about Yao’s production, Adelman will find a way to get him the ball. In game 2 vs. Portland they played Yao like yall did in game 2. Adelman made adjustments and Yao played better in game 3. Plus, our defense has been amazing at home recently, we should get more calls being at home (i dont like that but thats usuallly how it works), and we will have the home-crowd who is a big boost.

I expect the Rockets to be more motivated than the Lakers because the lakers have no reason to be mad about the events from game 2. The Rockets do.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

scola can play far better. brooks had a decent game but can up it. lowry can draw more fouls and actually hit some of his shots.

yao…. has an ocean of improvement he could make

by lawlruschang on May 7, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scola also hasnt been rebounding well in this series.

Hopefully that turns around at home cause the Lakers have been killing on the glass.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

seems like me and you

had similar middle and high school experiences. i’m also really regreting the habits i picked up in my younger days

by Adamas on May 7, 2009 4:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This might help make sense of last night

Hollinger (I know, bear with me) wrote one of his better pieces in todays Per Diem. Josh – I agree that we came out on fire, but really, it was Kobe coming out on fire and a few others picking up the pieces. Kelly Dwyer also pointed it out:

“He has to become a force beyond a dribble-dribble-dribble pull-up guy. He can get his 35 while working off the ball, flashing quickly, setting screens, and using Houston’s aggressiveness against itself. We’ve seen him do it before. He was awesome tonight, but he knows better. He knows he can’t keep this sort of superhuman play up. Nobody has ever done it. Not even Jordan. "

This is what worries me. Yes, we started off the game and went up big, but even as we did so, I knew it wasn’t sustainable. To be sustainable, a lead must come from running the triangle properly and getting everyone involved.

by Snoopy2006 on May 7, 2009 5:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s likely that Kobe can’t keep up that torrid shooting when taking the shots that the Rockets want him to take. Not even he is that good, his history shows that. We’re going to need a more balanced effort (and Pau to play as well as he did) to go up 2-1.

by Snoopy2006 on May 7, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As long as he's not hunting down the ball

And getting the ball in normal positions with the triangle, I have no problem with the jumpers

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same here except I'd like to add

if we win

5 wins down.... 11 more to go

by black mamba on May 7, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't do that

You gotta decide what you want, decide what you’re okay with, decide what you don’t like, and take it either way — win or loss.

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Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 7, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's the problem though

We ran very little of the triangle early when Kobe was taking his jumpshots. It was a lot of iso and PnR.

by Snoopy2006 on May 7, 2009 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with this ^^^

Kobe took most of his non triangle shots deep in the clock when he needed to bail the team out.

by Justin N. on May 7, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can totally agree with you

but some of that has been Bynum not being effective either for two series now and when those leads were lost and even in the last game when the bench came in all those events had one thing in common Bynum on the floor gettig in foul trouble so yes I do think this series will be tough but Bynum has become a problem for the Lakers. If Bynum suddenly starts being effective I don’t see those leads being lost and I see the Lakers blowing the rockets away but since he is strruggling the Lakers will struggle.

by BrittneyM on May 7, 2009 5:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Kobe needed all that Wednesday night offered because this is where he finds his fuel. Provoke him at your risk. Challenge him and he lifts his game above that of everyone else, scoring 40 points, delivering a 111-98 victory to send the Lakers and Rockets to Houston with their West semifinal knotted at a game apiece.

"I use it to drive me," Bryant said. "Absolutely."

Bryant embraced the tension, the physicality, because he needed to show his Lakers how to make a stand. They had floated through most of these playoffs, defending when necessary, winning more on talent than effort. That worked in the first round against the Utah Jazz, but the Lakers weren’t going to beat the Rockets playing that way. The Rockets know how to take a punch, evidenced again when they spotted the Lakers a 15-point advantage in the first half and then roared back to take the lead.

by intuitive on May 7, 2009 6:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No more excuses..

Last year was the year to make excuses as to why the Lakers didn’t win the title. We can break the Lakers down position by position, play by play and their woes have nothing to do with their physical abilities. At every position, except maybe PG this team is stacked twice. This whole issue of them blowing leads has more to do with the Lakers heart and passion or lack of it. Either they have it or they don’t. When the Lakers beat the Celtics at home this year and they celebrated on their court their reaction to me said a lot. It meant something! It was not just another regular season game and they acted like it. The only question that kept running in my mind was, “why can I not see that passion all the time?” On paper, this team is without a doubt the most talented. They have no weaknesess. Their only soft spot is in their chest. Let’s hope that the Rockets keep push them around because it seems to be the only thing that seems to revive them because they cannot win this series just on talent alone.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 7, 2009 6:42 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yes, no more excuses...

IF the Lakers want to win it all, they can. They know what happened last year. They know what they need to do. They have the necessary tools and talents.

They just haven’t been getting it done like everyone thinks they should or wants them to (myself included).

Does anyone remember the poll that was put up the inaugural week of this site? The question was along the lines of what road do fans want the Lakers to have to get to the championship, from challenging to easy. The last comment about having the Rockets push the Lakers around a bit made me think about that question.

I'm not in denial, I'm just selective about the reality I choose to accept.

by lab_mouse on May 7, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember..

…that post. I would take the tough road. Has anyone forgotten how tough it was for Shaq and Kobe to win a title? They were swept by the Jazz and Spurs from 96 to 99. The difference from the 96 to the 99 year team was that they finally had enough. Shaq had enough of being blamed and Kobe had enough of being called a showboat by not only his teammates but by the media. Why do you think Jordan cried in the Finals? DOUBTERS! just like the Lakers have now.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 7, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, if anyone can remember this too,

during those years that Lakers team was stacked on paper. Eddie Jones, Nick Van Excel, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Shaq, and Kobe was coming off the bench. They did an interview with the Bulls and I believe it was Dennis Rodman that was asked whether or not they were aware of the up and coming Lakers squad. Rodman replied that they (the Bulls) don’t think much of the Lakers because their mental toughness was still questionable and that with all that talent, they didn’t think the Lakers had a cohesive mind set to get past the Jazz or the Sonics of those years.

I think it was a SI article but I’m not too sure.

by hertagnism on May 8, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since Fish is suspended

I hope Phil goes with Farmar and Shannon in at the same time instead of Farmar or Shannon with Sasha.

by intuitive on May 7, 2009 7:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Question

How about Kobe and Ariza at the guards and let ariza defend the pg and put Kobe on Artest and the let Powell, Odom and Gasol be the other starters. Just a thought.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 7, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate it.

They would be bigger.

by illcowboy on May 7, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be a good idea if Ariza was hitting the 3

Right now, because of his hesitation to take that shot, it allows Houston to further collapse their defense. We need guys who are not afraid to take and make that kickout 3. If Ariza was hitting it regularly, this backcourt would allow PJ to start springing more traps a la Pippen/Jordan. However, I would not put Powell in there. I think a more suitable and the most likely starting lineup for Game 3 would be UPS/Kobe/Ariza/Odom/Gasol.

Is anyone working on a Game 3 thread yet? I think a lot of people already have thoughts to air out that directly relate to it.

by hertagnism on May 7, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Post

If Ariza had more dedication to practicing 3-point shots two hours before gametime like Ray Allen does, maybe he would more accurate.

by Sports_Without_Politics on May 7, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone know what Ariza's routine is?

The dude’s worked pretty damn hard on his shot. He’s not a natural shooter so he’s going to have dry spells. But in the Utah series, and near the end of the regular season, he did a solid job of spacing the floor.

I don’t think it’s really up to us to criticize player’s work ethics, unless we know for sure Ariza has skipped working on his shot to go party between playoff games.

by Snoopy2006 on May 7, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One name pops up!

Ron Harper! Any Laker fan will remember that he was the Lakers PG for some time and Fisher came off the bench. How about that? A bigger, slower PG. Why did that work? Because the interior defense (Shaq) was always there. That is why Bynum needs to step. Ariza is fast enough to cause problems on a PG but he CANNOT guard Artest like Kobe can. If there is one thing that Kobe has an advantage over any player in this game even over that other dude LBJ is his mental toughness for the game of basketball. Believe me, he is in Artest’s head. No one will say this but Fisher’s foul although blatant it was needed.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 7, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think if we stretch memory lane further then we'll see that

even the Jordan and Pippen teams had trouble containing quick point guards. It’s been the achilles of Phil Jackson teams forever and yet all those teams still won 9 championships. We also can’t really say that the interior defense was the key because I don’t think anyone associates those two words with Luc Longley or Bill Wellington. It’s a matter of team defense that each player must buy into to make it work. Also helps if you got three all-nba defenders too (Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman).

by hertagnism on May 8, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Point!

But you are right. Everyone has to buy into the system. But seriously who wouldn’t take Rodman over LO on the defensive end. Shaq’s interior defense was key with the Shaq and Kobe teams. But it was Jordan’s personality and will that guided his team. But then again having Pippen on your team wouldn’t hurt. Either way, it boils down to heart.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I may be crazy in saying this but I would take Rodman over Shaq

on the defensive end. Rodman was a freak of nature. I remember when Shaq was in Orlando, Rodman was his primary defender. Rodman was so versatile that he could defend all 5 positions and was just hungry for the ball which made him a great rebounder. In my opinion, the only thing keeping Rodman from ever reaching hall of fame status was his off the court antics and his personality. Seriously, if it wasn’t for those stunts, I honestly believe people would have thought of Rodman as the second coming of Bill Russell.

by hertagnism on May 8, 2009 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not crazy at all!

Didn’t the Bulls beat the Orlando Magic with Rodman? I mean he averaged the type of rebounds that a 7.0 footer should have. Could you imagine if you put D. rodman’s heart into Shaq’s body how much better Shaq would of been?

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gee .... If I Had A Chance To Play For The Lakers

And earn big-bucks, I would make damn sure my 3-point shots were always deadly accurate by dedicated practice. Those would be my work ethics. By the way, Ariza is married and has children, which probably makes it a little hard to find more practice time on his 3-point shots.

Vujacic, on the other hand, was signed to be a 3-point specialist, but hasn’t lived up to that reputation lately. Maybe Vujacic along with Farmar and Brown should be coming in 2 hours before game time practicing just 3-point shots. Just a suggestion on this board and not being hypercritical.

by Sports_Without_Politics on May 8, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

along the lines

…of what you said. I cannot feel bad for anyone making so much money and not being able to produce or put a lot of effort in my job. Who know’s how much these guys practice. I do know one thing there are people who have similar or worst problems in their life who make a lot less. Either way, I want to see them produce on the court.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look At Ray Allen

When there was an ESPN special on Allen, he was always practicing 3-point shots 2 hours before game time. Like I tried to say, if Vujacic, Farmar, Brown had the same dedication Allen has, then they would probably be able to produce, which is what you would like to see, right???

by Sports_Without_Politics on May 8, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was a special

on Ray Allen. I am sure if there was a special on every player we can all be inspired. A special on Ray Allen does not mean that other players are not praciting just as hard. No one knows for sure. Similar to when there was a special on Bruce Bowen and his struggles. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a dirty player. Personal lives have nothing do with how a person acts in their professional life. We all have struggles and just because we seen Ray Allen’s on television does not make him more special. That is just propaganda for television. Who knows how many hours any other players puts in.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your Special Comment

>>>>
…..A special on Ray Allen does not mean that other players are not praciting just as hard. No one knows for sure. Similar to when there was a special on Bruce Bowen and his struggles. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a dirty player. Personal lives have nothing do with how a person acts in their professional life. We all have struggles and just because we seen Ray Allen’s on television does not make him more special. That is just propaganda for television. Who knows how many hours any other players puts in.
<<<<

First, what I tried to say was if Vujacic, Farmar, and Brown had the same dedication as Allen, then they would produce just as much. This statement was only a suggestion not an infringement on a player’s personal struggles as you seem to put it. Moreover, I am definitely aware that a player’s personal life has nothing to do with their given profession as they would individual contracted to do. As far as not knowing how much a player practices, only the Lakers management and Jerry Buss knows. As far as propaganda on ESPN, they only state the truth about a player’s work ethnics, which has nothing to do with either their personal lives or struggles as you have mentioned about “Bruce Bowen.”

So in the end, I am only making a suggestion and not …. NOT an infringement on a player’s abilitiy to spend more practice time.

by Sports_Without_Politics on May 8, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooops ...

Clarification line: “….. Moreover, I am definitely aware that a player’s personal life has nothing to do with their given profession since they were individually contracted to do specific duties for Laker’s management….”

by Sports_Without_Politics on May 8, 2009 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

along your lines

>>>>
….I cannot feel bad for anyone making so much money and not being able to produce or put a lot of effort in my job….
<<<<

Maybe, you misread me. I didn’t say I felt bad for anyone on the Lakers making so much and not being able to produce. Again, what I did say was if I had a chance to play for the Lakers and earn big-bucks, I would make damn sure my 3-point shots were always deadly accurate by dedicated practice. Okay, with you?

by Sports_Without_Politics on May 8, 2009 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That lineup would kill us on offense.

We’d have literally 0 3-point shooters to space the floor for Kobe

On defense, no way we want Kobe on Artest. Artest is too strong, and could get Kobe in foul trouble very easily, the way Kobe responds to physical play. Powell’s strong enough to match up with Artest, but I think Artest is just too quick for him.

by Snoopy2006 on May 7, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point!

About Artest getting Kobe into foul trouble. But, we have all noticed that Artest has not put two consecutive good games like this in a long time. He is the player that is making the difference. Keeping that in mind I think that there is only one player tough enough on the Lakers who can play with fouls and that is Kobe. If Artest is too strong for Kobe then he is defenitely even stronger on Ariza. But you make a good point about opening the floor. Either way, tough call. But I would sure like to see it.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 7, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From a Rockets fan, I commend you on this article.

I must admit, as much of a die hard Rockets fan as I am, the only reason I see the Rockets having the opportunity to gut out this series is because of how I view the Lakers. The Lakers simply turn it to cruise control much of the time and don’t play hard. If they had half the Rockets scrappiness, I think they would win it all easily.

Don’t get me wrong, the Rockets are a great team…They are simply not as good on paper, or during this season, as the Lakers. The Rockets have a chance because they are a lockdown defensive team, true, but I mostly think it is because the Lakers have gotten so used to Kobe carrying them that the role players don’t put in nearly enough effort. If they did, this already excellent team, would be damn near unstoppable. However, I’m not looking for them to change now, and I think the Rockets tough it out style could just give them the benefit of a shock the world type of win.

Either way, I think who ever takes down this series is polishing a trophy in another month from now.

"[Lebron James] reminds me of a new and improved version of me" - Ron "Crazy Pills" Artest

by ClutchCityCrazyPills on May 8, 2009 12:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just curious

Great Post by the way. How do you think the Rockets can beat the Cavs in the Finals?

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The same reason they believe the Rockets can beat the Lakers

Have a shot blocker patrolling the lane while their perimeter defenders harass James towards the baseline. Remember, even though Lebron’s jump shot has improved, it is still nowhere near the level of Kobe’s and Battier and Artest can harass him into those ineffective spots on the floors the media keeps talking about. Also, there’s the experience factor because Kobe views the entire floor in lanes and angles and I’m not sure that Lebron has developed that analytical ability yet.

CCCPills makes some valid points though. I also believe that a lot of the role players on our team are getting too comfortable and resorting to watch Kobe go into “hero” mode.

by hertagnism on May 8, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we get past you guys...

Then we have an easy time with Denver. Chauncy can’t keep up with Brooks. Yao always goes off against Denver, and we have a defense that can slow their offense.

We beat Cleveland by making Lebron work hard. Furthermore, the Cavs won’t be battle tested at all when they get to the finals. Also, if the Rockets were in the east, they could have won 60 games this year. Cleveland beat some good teams this year, but the east while a little bit better than it has been in years past, is still vastly lacking to the west.

Also, Cleveland will try to put Ilgauskus on Yao which favors us. This is all hypothetical, of course. I just feel that if we can beat the Lakers, who I consider a better team then the Cavs, we should then beat the lesser opponent of the Cavaliers.

"[Lebron James] reminds me of a new and improved version of me" - Ron "Crazy Pills" Artest

by ClutchCityCrazyPills on May 8, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without a doubt

Lebron does not view the game in the same way that Kobe does. Kobe reads the defense and tries to score and if there is an open man he might pass it. Lebron on the other hand drives to the basket with the intention of passing the ball first.

On top of that, you are right, when Kobe has the ball and everyone knows that he has made up his mind to attack, everyone just follows his que and just waits for him without any cuts to the basket.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As DexterFishmore has pointed out...

The Rockets allow the fewest shots from point blank in the league — they force the most jumpshots. Since we know that layups and dunks are LeBron’s bread and butter, and he struggles if he can’t get them, it’s not hard to see how the Rockets could match up with him very well. And since the Cavs rely completely on LeBron, and are entirely built around him, how he goes, they go.

16...15...14...13...12...11...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 8, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know its an old cliche but,

the Rockets matchup well with the Cavs. We have better big men, and two guys to but on Bron. It would be an extremely physical and defensive matchup, which the NBA would probably hate. But it would also be really good.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, you guys are okay with every team except for the ones in SLC

it seems like they’re the only team that you guys don’t match up well with. But I don’t think you guys match up well with the Cavs, I think you guys overpower them at almost every critical position and only have a slight disadvantage at SF.

Plus they don’t have a bench. The NBA wouldn’t mind it since Yao will be in the finals and ratings from China will skyrocket. And I agree, it would be fantastic basketball. It would be like Spurs and Pistons from a couple years back and I loved that series (yeah, call me crazy).

by hertagnism on May 8, 2009 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh??
But I don’t think you guys match up well with the Cavs, I think you guys overpower them at almost every critical position and only have a slight disadvantage at SF.

How do you say we dont matchup well but have the advantage at every position except SF. Wouldnt that mean that we do matchup well if we have all the advantages. I personally think they have the advantage at PG and SF, but we have all the others.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think "don't" was a typo

16...15...14...13...12...11...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 8, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the post

Yao will Kill the Cavs. But in terms of length and talent the Lakers have more talent on the post than the Rockets. The key to all of this, at least for the Lakers is going to be Bynum. But even with the current line up and offensively speaking the Lakers are better with LO, and Pau than Yao and Scola.

Just something to think about. If Yao got in foul trouble who would the Rockets bring in? Now if Pau or Odom got in foul trouble Bynum could still come off the bench.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 8, 2009 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yao got in foul trouble on wednesday and in came Carl.

I dont agree with you about LAL having the offensive adv. with LO and Pau over Scola and Yao. If Adelman can find a way to get Yao the ball, he can take Pau. Scola consistently scored on LO in the first quarter on wednesday and has a big advantage in th post because LO cant guard in the post. If we cant get Yao the ball, then yall probably do have the advantage, but otherwise i think not.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rockets could...

beat the cavs in the finals. Think about how the lakers shut down bron. You clog the lane and put aggresive strong defenders on him. Houston has the same pieces that the lakers have just not as much talent across the board.

The ONLY thing they lack is that bron has the ability to just go bonkers and hit shots and no one from the rockets can do that consistently.

by rshinsec on May 8, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at it this way...

Over the last 37 games of the regular season both the Lakers and Rockets have identical records of 27-10.

It’s not about who you play but who you play when you play them. Right now the Rockets are much better than your typical 5 seed. I would love to have seen the Lakers open up against Detroit and Atlanta who are both complete breezes compared to who the Lakers have had to start up against.

0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.

by gee-roj on May 8, 2009 5:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Rockets would have been the 3 seed and Blazers would still be in the playoffs if Houston didn't choke Game 82 this year...

Rockets are a 5 seed In Name Only. They are ACTUALLY the 3.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on May 8, 2009 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no the rockets are actually the 2 seed.

We had a 3-1 record against Den, 2-1 against Port, and 2-2 agains SA. If the Rockets had won the last game of the season they would be the 2. But that didnt happen and they are the 5. Over the last 37 games though, as gee-roj pointed out, we were just as good as LA, and those 37 games were the games after T-Mac officially quit.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rephrase: How dare you offend Rockets fans like that?

The Rockets are actually the 2 seed, and were just as good as the Lakers for the last 37 games of the season!

by Gils_Keloids on May 8, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting Yo Self On The Couch

I appreciate the way the author admitted his many failings and physiological challenges that he believes have their roots in his childhood. Acknowledging your problems are the first step to trying to solve them, but if you don’t actually DO anything beyond admitting them it doesn’t help anyone.

I believe the author’s same self-admission of slackerbrain and failure to grow are the reasons his analysis can be dismissed as the meaningless opinions of someone who just isn’t a voice anyone needs to listen to.

Clearly those of us who aren’t slackers and who work hard and have learned much have seen enough to smell that this is Cleveland’s year.

I’m sorry but that’s all the time we have in this session.

by Lakerscoop on May 8, 2009 12:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe in the East
Clearly those of us who aren’t slackers and who work hard and have learned much have seen enough to smell that this is Cleveland’s year.

But I know that that the winner of this series can beat Cleveland. They arent that deep, they beat up on the east, and if LeBron has a bad game, they cant win.

Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers

Series Tied 1-1

by TexasHoosier on May 8, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thin Ice

First: I never said I failed to grow, and I also never said I didn’t DO anything beyond admitting my short-comings. I said it was difficult, and not something that happens overnight.

Second: Personal attacks are the quickest way to get yourself banned. We won’t stand for anyone, even one that roots for a different team, much less the authors.

If the opinions of those on this blog aren’t worth listening to, keep your mouth shut and take your thoughts elsewhere.

16...15...14...13...12...11...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 8, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction:

We won’t stand for insulting anyone, even…

16...15...14...13...12...11...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on May 8, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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