Lakers Look to Rebound in Game 5
Game 4 was disappointingly predictable. The Nuggets were in a must-win situation; the Lakers were not. The Nuggets played hard; the Lakers did not. Both frustrating and comforting at the same time was the knowledge that L.A. did not play their best in the lopsided loss to Denver – frustrating, because we wish they would; comforting, because we know they can do better.
As usual, the Lakers primary struggles in Denver were not in areas of skill or ability. Those who would claim that Game 4 proved the Nuggets to be the better team have yet to understand these Lakers. Instead, the Lakers primary struggles were rooted, as always, in motivation and effort. Of the former, they had little; of the latter, they gave even less. They were tired – understandably so, though they have only themselves to blame – and given the circumstances, they decided it wasn't worth the effort.
Game 5 should be equally predictable. As they have after every loss, the Lakers will come out with energy and intensity, playing well on both ends of the court. As tired and apathetic as they were in the previous game, they will be equally engaged and driven in the game to come.
That the Lakers will come to play in Game 5 should be a given. But how should their renewed energy be applied, in order for the Lakers to maintain control of the series? Simple: In areas that are fully under a team's control, requiring little more than effort itself to deliver a strong performance.
These also happen to be the areas in which the listless Lakers of Game 4 failed completely: defense and rebounding. If they play with intensity to control these two aspects of the game, the rest will fall into place, and the result will be a Lakers win.
If you've been paying attention at all, you know how poorly the Lakers performed on defense and on the glass in Game 4. Here's a quick refresher:
It was about effort. And for the full story, look no further than the rebounding columns in the box score – the Nuggets were +11 in offensive rebounds, and +18 in total rebounds.
Off Reb Def Reb Total Reb Off Reb Rate Def Reb Rate Lakers 9 31 40 23% 61% Nuggets 20 38 58 77% 39%
By themselves, these numbers already speak volumes to the Lakers' Game 4 performance. Considering that the Lakers have the distinct height advantage should make it even clearer that L.A. simply got out-hustled on Monday. But what really puts this into perspective is the teams' recent history.
- In the first two games of the series, the Lakers rebounded a stellar 35% of their own misses.
- By contrast, Denver was only able to get to 30% of their own misses in the first two games.
- In the regular season, the Lakers also rebounded at a rate of 35% on offense.
- On defense, however, they tracked down an impressive 78% of Denver's misses, holding Denver to a 22% offensive rebounding rate.
Compare that with the numbers from Game 4, above, and you see the problem. This is a team that has no business even matching the Lakers in rebounding, on either end of the court. On Monday, they didn't just match the Lakers on the boards – they destroyed them. Their 20 offensive rebounds, in particular, resulted in 23 second-chance points – easily the biggest difference in the game.
The Lakers' bigs need to man up. This isn't just about hitting the double-digit mark in the rebounds column; this is about preventing Kenyon Martin, Chris Andersen, and Nene from totaling 42 rebounds between the three of them. It's about giving the Nuggets one shot on offense (preferably a contested one), and only one.
The Lakers perimeter players may need to step up some, as well. While they may prefer to leak out for early, quick offense, that offense won't materialize if the Nuggets are busy collecting offensive rebounds and taking second and third shots. As a team, the Lakers need to play a brand of defense conducive to solid rebounding. Gambling on steals must be kept to a minimum; the Lakers must play for defensive position, keeping Denver out of the paint, forcing contested jumpshots, and cleaning the glass when they miss.
And for God's sake, someone pick up Andersen! You want to talk predictability? "The Birdman" has one thing on his mind; everyone already knows what he's going to do. To leave him unattended once the shot goes up is essentially to hand him a second chance opportunity.
Defensively, the Nuggets' front line deserves greater emphasis. Offensively talented they are not, but as we've just seen, that changes when they're collecting absurd amounts of offensive rebounds. The Lakers need to pack it in, challenging the Nuggets to beat them from outside. Billups may hit some mid-range jumpshots, and Anthony may hit some threes, but in the end, this is far preferable to the alternative of the Nuggets dominating the boards and scoring heavily in the paint. Placing greater defensive emphasis on Denver's front line, while packing it in and defending the paint, will not only force Denver to hit tougher shots, but will also contribute to the aforementioned goal of winning the rebounding battle.
As far as matchups, I want to see more of Luke Walton on Carmelo Anthony, and Kobe Bryant on Chauncey Billups. In the latter matchup, Kobe has unquestionably had the upper hand. Billups has been good, and has hit some key shots, but he has also been consistently inefficient throughout the series. As for the Walton-Melo matchup, I must admit it completely puzzles me. Walton isn't one of tremendous foot speed, and he's not normally known for his defense. Nonetheless, while no single player should expect to completely shut Carmelo down, Walton has had tremendous success defending him, both in the regular season and in the playoffs. While the officials seemed already to have decided that Walton couldn't guard Anthony late in Game 4, and were expecting the foul well before it happened, I don't expect that trend to continue in Los Angeles, so Luke should get some good minutes on Melo.
Speaking of officiating, I expect the series to balance out once again (unfortunate though it may be, idealistically speaking). In the playoffs, the Lakers's opponents have taken more free throws in nine of 16 games. In this series, Denver has had the free throw shooting edge in three out of four games. In the first three games, the team that seemed to get the short end of the officiating stick in the first half received more favorable calls in the second half, and particularly in the fourth quarter – but in Game 4, that balancing effect never happened.
As always, I raise these points not as a matter of complaint, or to provide an excuse for any of the Lakers' losses, but as a simple matter of observation and expectation heading into the next game. These things do tend to balance out, and a part of me suspects that to be more than just the natural ebb and flow of a series. Phil Jackson has made his protests clear and driven home his point regarding the officiating, both in the middle of Game 4 and after it, and I expect that he will get his way in Game 5. In Staples Center, after the Nuggets shot 49 free throws in the previous game, and in light of the numerous less-than-sportsmanlike displays by various Nuggets throughout the game, expect the whistle to be less of a hindrance to the Lakers in tonight's game.
In the end, this isn't about which team is better. If anything, it might be impossible to judge such a thing, simply because of the manner in which each team applies its talent. Furthermore, it is unclear as to whether we will ever see both of these teams playing at their best against each other. Game 5 will be decided by effort – namely, the effort put forth by the Lakers. For Los Angeles, this effort must begin with defense and rebounding.
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Lakers inability to block out opposing players
It seems that when the opponent, Nuggetts, take a long shot they end up with the re-bound too much, or a follow up to the basket. When I was first playing basketball I was always taught to block out the closestet opponent, this would stop the “birdman” from getting easy schores and cause him to either foul or not be able to get to the basket. I also see Andryu Bynum not moving as quick as he used to before his injuries, he needs to get tougher and move quicker. He has a lot of hidden talent, but needs to learn how to use it. It also seems that Derek Fisher has lost some of his magic touch, is missing a lot field goals he used to make, at his age perhaps he has turned the corner in the wrong direction.
by chocho7337 on May 27, 2009 4:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Must win situation
Regardless of how good or bad the Lakers play I cannot believe that the Lakers will loose. At this point the only thing that keeps me even more confident is that every time the Lakers have faced a must-win situation they have pulled it out. Today’s game is a must-win situation because they know that they do not want to put themselves down 3-2 and giving Denver the chance to close it out in Denver.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 27, 2009 6:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Must win for Lakers. Will be a really interesting game eh :D. Man O man, am I curious to see how the Nuggs will respond. Its a must win for them to if they are serious about contending. They dun have the luxury of the laker talent.
by LionZion on May 27, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you heard kobe
they just got whooped
it wasnt a matter of turning on the switch
now you can argue all you want how lakers is a better team than denver
but whoever wins this series will be the better team
and bynum has no hidden talent
he just posts good numbers against bad centers during regular season
and is struggling right now because everyones stepped up their game in the playoffs
by andrew33 on May 27, 2009 7:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Style points don't count in the NBA...
What I’ve noticed in these finals is that Denver and Orlando have played pretty basketball. They’ve made their dunks look nasty and their shots look nice but at the end of the day, none of that matters. They’re playing crisp basketball while the Lakers are scrapping through it. Either way, the series is tied and the better team will win the series.
by BallerBabe on May 27, 2009 7:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The only team playing good basketball right now is Orlando
or at least they are playing the best out the four remaining teams. If it was the same for Denver then they would be up in the series. As far as the Lakers scrapping throught it, so did the Celtics last year and they ended up with a title. They went to two game 7’s and 2 game 6’s including against the Lakers. I would call that scrapping through.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 27, 2009 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I’ve said all along that this year’s Lakers are very much like last year’s Celtics. Orlando and Denver are playing “crisp” basketball in the sense that they’re moving the ball nicely and making their dunks look good too. But if you look at all of the games, the Lakers have been right there in the mix and could’ve won game 1 at home too. Sometimes I watch the games and think Denver is up big by the way they’re playing and then you look up and the lead is 3 pts. We’re not playing pretty but we’re going to keep scrapping through…right through to the Finals.
by BallerBabe on May 27, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean Game 2
And yes, I agree. After the first three games, people liked to point out that LA could easily be down 3-0 instead of up 2-1. Of course, the opposite was equally true, in that they could easily have been up 3-0 instead of only 2-1.
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...
Strength & Honor
by Josh Tucker on May 27, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on the insignificance of those "could easily be" statements
I could easily have not been born.
I could easily have become a famous actor.
I could easily have been a sportswriter in a small town.
I could easily have invented the paper clip.
I could easily have married someone else.
I could easily have made more money.
But I didn’t.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on May 27, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're old enough to have invented the paper clip???
It was patented in 1867. Damn you are old.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
by pslakerfan on May 27, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could easily be a vampire ...
Sorry I’ve been watching True Blood ONDEMAND …
Pickaxe & Roll.com: 5,280 reasons to be a Nuggets fan
by Nate Timmons on May 27, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, It was patented in 1899.
I could have easily invented it back then, but I didn’t need any paper clips.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on May 27, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to WikiAnswers it was 1867...............
but either way, you’re damn old.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
by pslakerfan on May 27, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Denver is trying as hard as Orlando, but they have lost on poise/maturity in the playoffs. Its their first time out.
by LionZion on May 27, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
big game tonight...i hope good LA comes out and not sissy LA
by RudeMood19 on May 27, 2009 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have faith..
that they’ll come out strong tonight. Pau will be getting more touches and I expect we’ll be looking to rebound much better than we have been too. Look for Kobe to have a big night and hope Odom and Bynum show up.
by BallerBabe on May 27, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
Kobe is getting his tonight – Bynum and Odom should be the Siegfried and Roy the way they pull disappearing acts.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Artest4Prez on May 27, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to say NEW
Siegfried and Roy…
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Artest4Prez on May 27, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give Phil Jackson some credit
Bynum’s disappearing act is more like the assistant being made to vanish, as the magician pulls the strings.
by C.A. Clark on May 27, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if we lose this series
we can take solace in the fact that Lebron won’t be making the Finals either.
And if we win this series, I dread facing the Magic. They seem to be the team to beat, and it seems like it was destined from the beginning to be their year. Howard has to be awarded a championship to cement his status as the best big man in the NBA currently. The NBA will ALWAYS have talented players who play the wing positions, but getting 7 footers to realize that playing the grind of the NBA is a rewarding job, the NBA must have Howard win the title.
And of course, this, combined with another late round loss by the Cavs next season, will finally drive Lebron straight to New York.
by tandur on May 27, 2009 9:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Orlando is a tough team BUT...
All of their games against Cleveland have come down to the wire. The Lakers have a better supporting cast although they’ve all kind of dissappeared this series much like Mo’ Williams has. It would be a tough drawn out series but there’s no win like a tough win and we’re gonna gring ’till we get that trophy.
by BallerBabe on May 27, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Lakers have much more athletic wing players to deal with all of Orlando's shooters.
The Magic definitely have some matchup advantages against the Magic, but no more than the Lakers have against them. The main of Cleveland’s problems stem from having Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Wally S. (I’m just too lazy to look it up right now) as their backup options for defending either Lewus or Hedo. Wallace and Smith or OK defenders in the post, but they are getting torched by whichever of the Hedo/Rashard combo isn’t being covered by LeBron. Ariza and Odom can do a much better job of covering those guys than Cleveland’s options.
I’m not saying I think the Lakers win that series, it has to be a sure thing that it will happen before I’ll think about it and make a predicition, but many of Cleveland’s problems don’t exist for the Lakers. We just have our own set of problems to deal with.
by C.A. Clark on May 27, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Howard has 6 T's...
You bet the Refs will T him up once more to give the Cavs an advantage.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on May 27, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That 6th was terrible.
Apparently you aren’t allowed to express emotion anymore after a +1. I understood J.R.‘s tech after a few choice words directed right at Sasha but flexing as you’re walking away? Someone is sensitive.
by NuggBuckets on May 27, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Classic Lakers fan post.
Phil Jackson has made his protests clear and driven home his point regarding the officiating, both in the middle of Game 4 and after it, and I expect that he will get his way in Game 5.
Thanks for perpetuating the problem. It just goes to show that Lakers fans have no respect for the game (as they claim), but rather just the W, at any cost. For all the idealistic pontificating that appears on another post, the truth is that the officiating is only a problem when it doesn’t favor the Lakers. Thanks for that.
by NuggBuckets on May 27, 2009 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"He will get his way" is the key phrase
“His way” does not necessarily mean favoring the Lakers.
“His way” is a consistently officiated game in terms of physicality, from the beginning of the game to the end, as he has noted in his post game pressers.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on May 27, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry, where was the opinion stating that this is what we want?
I wrote that idealistic post, and this has nothing to do with an opinion one way or the other. He’s simply stating the assumed fact that games are called to “even things out” and that PJ has a history of success in working the refs.
It’s not the player’s or coach’s job to be altruistic and not try to take advantage of the way the game’s being called. The onus is entirely on the association to fix the problem. Until they do, every coach and player should do everything they can to try to get favorable calls.
I could be wrong on this, but I don’t think you would be up in arms if Karl tried to work the refs after Game 3. Don’t try and hold us to a higher standard than you hold yourself to.
by C.A. Clark on May 27, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People can read between the lines
In the playoffs, the Lakers’s opponents have taken more free throws in nine of 16 games.
There’s an expectation that this is somehow the referees fault, and that the Lakers are entitled to the same number or more free throws in a game or series. The desire is stated for “invisible” referees, unless of course, the Lakers can get free throws out of it.
I know how the game works. One coach calls out the officiating and in the next game his team gets the calls. Then the coach of the snubbed team calls out the officiating and in the next game his team gets the calls. The fans gripe about terrible calls, but only in a loss. Then when the team wins, it’s because they “played harder” or wanted it more.
Wouldn’t it be better if the guys on the court just played and the refs called it fair? Of course, only if by fair you mean that the Lakers get to the line more than the other team…
by NuggBuckets on May 27, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Karl called out the Refs too you know.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on May 27, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if you notice
On the Nuggets blog (Kudos to Nate) you never see the keys to game being “we got hosed in the last game so we should get ours this game.”
Like I said, I know how the game works. The officials are human and are subject to criticism and homerism and all that.
And I never said that I didn’t want the Lakers to get calls. I’ve been on here enough calling a spade a spade, and yes, I too have bias. I just want it to be called fair. But fair does NOT mean that both team shoot an equal number of free throws.
I guess for me, the biggest problem is having one post saying “we need to do something about the officiating” and then in the next becoming complicit because it may help your team win.
by NuggBuckets on May 27, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you should take it up with the players and coaches as well...
Since they work the Refs all game long.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on May 27, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NuggBucks
You’re losing credibility here with me and the other [honest] fans of the NBA. The Lakers want consistent officiating. I.e. It seems everytime Melo drove the ball to the hole in game 4 Walton or whoever guarded him got whistled for a touch foul. Yet Kobe didn’t get the same treatment.
There were what, five technicals called? Did Melo deserve the T? Nope. Bynum certainly didn’t and it was reversed. We just want the game called more consistently.
Having worked as a ref in college, the calls go both ways and if things get out of control you talk to the team caps/coahces and tell them the game will be called close. Never saw any of that in any of these games.
by 81 Witness on May 27, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with reading between the lines is that it allows you to let your own bias in.
Let me propose an alternate viewing of the situation, by looking at the whole paragraph.
Speaking of officiating, I expect the series to balance out once again (unfortunate though it may be, idealistically speaking). In the playoffs, the Lakers’s opponents have taken more free throws in nine of 16 games. In this series, Denver has had the free throw shooting edge in three out of four games. In the first three games, the team that seemed to get the short end of the officiating stick in the first half received more favorable calls in the second half, and particularly in the fourth quarter – but in Game 4, that balancing effect never happened.
First things first, he actually says the expected balancing out isn’t the ideal situation, which directly refutes your “Lakers fans only complain when its not going their way” premise. Then, he talks about how the Lakers have been on the short end of free throw shooting (purely from a numerical standpoint, not saying it was right or wrong) about 50% of the time overall in the playoffs, but 75% of the time against the Nuggets. Then he points out that the “balancing out” effect has been seen throughout most of the series. He’s using statistics to point out that there’s a good chance the Lakers will get the free throw advantage in this game. There’s no spin. There’s no “This is what should happen”. It’s simply analysis on what should be expected to happen. And in this case, expectation has only to do with what result is likely to occur.
You could be right with your view of the situation, but you could also be wrong, and your posts don’t allow for that possibility. I’m trying to work with you here, because there’s been merit to your earlier contributions, but I think your way off base this time. It certainly seems to me that the only spin associated with that paragraph was the spin you decided to put on it.
by C.A. Clark on May 27, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, I'll give.
Perhaps it’s my own “we’ve gotten hosed in past games” (whether true or merely perceived) which makes me all the more defensive.
The officiating, as we’ve stated many times, has been questionable and I doubt it will improve over the course of one game or a series.
But I do feel that there is an inherent expectation that comes along with stating those facts about this series. It creates a build-up where in tonight’s game, if the Nuggets win the free throw line, that the refs did an even worse job because they were supposed to “even it out.”
by NuggBuckets on May 27, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kudos to you, all is forgiven
And the point you make about the inherent expectation is a great one (that is why I wasted so much time trying to set you straight in the first place =).
However, I’d be surprised to see most of the more reasonable fans on this site complain if the referreeing is balanced tonight. Anybody who comes in thinking the refs need to give this game to the Lakers in the name of fairness is foolish. Josh is just saying you shouldn’t be surprised if it happens.
The source of our conflict will be if we think the refs are favoring Denver again, and you think its a fair and balanced game. And that is bias on both sides that can not really be sorted out, which is why officiating is often a fruitless topic to bring up, outside of simply stating facts.
by C.A. Clark on May 27, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't judge a fanbase as a whole...
By just one freakin’ post. What NuggBuckets is really saying is that NuggetFan complains about the Refs better than LakerFan.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on May 27, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another point on not really trying to win Game 4.
We’ve all talked about how the Lakers effort was an issue in game 4 and it was. We’ve talked about how the Lakers had little motivation to win it, and the Nuggets had it all. I think both of those things came down from PJ. I had a real strong feeling Game 4 was going to be a blow out loss at the start of the 2nd quarter, when PJ trotted out this little gem. Gasol, Odom, UPS, Sasha … and Josh Powell?!? Seriously? We don’t go big with Odom and the small forward the entire season to try to get Bynum, Gasol, and Odom on the court at the same time, and yet, on the road, in a hostile environment in the Western Conference Finals, we do play Odom at the 3 … and Bynum’s not even the guy that picked up the minutes? Surprising absolutely no one, Denver goes on a 13-3 run and the Lakers are playing catch up the rest of the game.
Then, in the 3rd, after the nuggets go on a run to put the game back into double digits (something that we have repeatedly responded to, or else the Nuggets would have won all of these games) PJ pulls Gasol, our only half-way consistent big man, for 8 minutes, which, by the way, is more rest in one go than he’s gotten in any game in this series. So PJ, through actions, communicated to the Lakers squad that this game wasn’t vital to win. Maybe he would have acted differently if the Nuggs came out flat or cold, but he saw that it would take a supreme effort to win the game, and even with that it was no guarentee, and he decided to pass.
And the truth is, for this one time, I’m not even mad about it. PJ knew that the chances were iffy at best to win the game even trying their hardest (i.e. giving the stars more minutes), and decided that he likes his chances better to take Game 5 at home with a rested big man.
by C.A. Clark on May 27, 2009 9:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Luke did not handle Melo
In Game 1. He got smoked while guarding him in games 1 & 2. However, I’d suggest him guarding Melo in game 5 since Melo is not as mobile due to injuries.
The bench needs to come out with more energy. Not just rely on Sasha to hit the open 3. Sasha needs to drive the ball to the whole and gain some confidence.
by 81 Witness on May 27, 2009 9:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That was more about Melo being on fire than Luke not being able to handle him
Melo couldn’t miss in Game 1. As fans of Kobe Bryant, we know how that goes. Do your worst, it doesn’t matter. Melo was having one of those games.
But look at what Luke has done on Melo in most of this series, and throughout the regular season, and it is actually quite impressive. Perplexing, but impressive nonetheless.
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...
Strength & Honor
by Josh Tucker on May 27, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m worried about tonight…
That game 4 loss the other night did not look anything like the game 4 loss in the Houston series. The latter was a no-show, non-effort, spanking born from an overconfident apathy while the former was a no-show, non-effort, beat-down resulting from exhaustion. The team looked extremely fatigued the other night and my concern is that they just won’t have the legs to finish this series out.
Unlike Houston, Denver is not a team they can just turn it on and off against and I think they’re smart enough to realize this. If game 5 is anything like games 1 and 2 (which I suspect it will be) than it can go either way. It could just as easily be Billups (instead of Kobe) hitting a deep 3 in the waning seconds tonight.
Needless to say I’ll be on the edge of my seat tonight and probably won’t be able to relax unless the Lakers are carrying a 35 point lead into the 4th quarter.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
by gee-roj on May 27, 2009 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
NuggBuckets
I think FryingDutchman addressed your points quite well, and correctly, but I want to address this myself.
It’s really disappointing to me that you would ascribe negative motives and intentions to me, when I laid them out very explicitly in my post:
As always, I raise these points not as a matter of complaint, or to provide an excuse for any of the Lakers’ losses, but as a simple matter of observation and expectation heading into the next game.
When I said I expected free throws to even out, I was NOT saying ANY of the following:
- I want that to happen
- It is what should happen
- The free throws are why the Lakers lost
All I was saying was that things have a tendency to even out, and I expect them to do so.
I NEVER said “we got hosed in the last game so we should get ours this game” – I said that we shot less in the last game, and based on the circumstances likely to be at play, I EXPECT that to change in this game. It’s not a question of what “should” happen. It’s a question of what likely will happen.
It’s a preview, and one aspect of the game that I was previewing was how I expect the free throw game to go. It has NOTHING to do with what I want to happen, or what I think should happen. It is purely about what I EXPECT to happen.
That is why it is in the preview, not the recap.
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...
Strength & Honor
by Josh Tucker on May 27, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that I disagree... but
Just because you qualify a statement doesn’t mean that you can’t do exactly what you said you wouldn’t.
example:
“I never complain about the referees but they sucked last night.” (not a real quote)
Just because I qualified the statement by saying that I never complain doesn’t mean I didn’t just complain.
Again, my point was not that you were or were not complaining. The point was that we’ve become so accustomed to horrendous officiating and make-up calls that we’ve come to include them in our pre-game analysis. I realize that even the teams scout the officials to know what their tendencies are — but I would prefer that the refs not have an impact on the game.
So I already stated that I jumped the boat and my own bias skewed the way I read the words. But there is still the expectation that calls will go your way because of a perception that in the past they have not. Which only further enhances that feeling of “we got screwed” because you expect more calls than you would already expect to get, which is already probably more than you deserve.
Example (again, purely fictitious):
Game 1 – Based on play, Lakers deserve 25 trips. Refs (amazingly) call a perfect game and give them 25 free throws. However, LakersFan expected 30 trips to the line. Disappointed that the Lakers got 5 fewer free throws than he thought they should have, LakersFan says “well, they’ll make it up in the next game.”
Game 2 – LakersFan again expects the 30 trips to line, but now expects 5 more so that it evens out. The Lakers again deserve 25 free throws based on play. The refs are generous and give them 30 free throws, 5 more than they deserve but still 5 free throws fewer than the bloated expectations of LakersFan. Irate that the refs didn’t live up to his expectations, LakersFan says that the league needs to adjust how they call games.
That doesn’t even account for the other team’s play. If the Lakers deserve 25 free throws and the other team (Team B) deserves 35, you can’t say that the refs are biased towards Team B if LA shoots 35 and Team B shoots 40.
You can’t expect calls going into a game because you’ll just be disappointed. Expect to play hard and put the ball in the rim. That way, any fouls called are just gravy.
by NuggBuckets on May 27, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have to disagree
True, you can qualify a statement and then blatantly defy it. I did not do that.
Yeah, I can agree with you that it’s unfortunate that officiating becomes part of previewing a game. Until the league straightens this out – and make no mistake, it is the league’s responsibility, not the players’, coaches’, fans’, or bloggers’ – it will be a reality. It is a real, tangible factor in the game, and as such, it’s worth accounting for in a preview.
But again, this is just not correct:
But there is still the expectation that calls will go your way because of a perception that in the past they have not. Which only further enhances that feeling of "we got screwed" because you expect more calls than you would already expect to get, which is already probably more than you deserve.
Again, you’re ascribing to me a motivation that I do not have, and an intent that I did not express. This does not in any way enhance the feeling that “we got screwed.” Why? Because I didn’t say that’s what happened. All I said was that a disparity occurred. And then I provided evidence that it has always evened out over the first two rounds, and also cited the assumed reasoning (which I do, unfortunate though it may be, ascribe to) that “things will even out,” and simply stated that this is likely to happen tonight.
The why of it is something you made up. I did not say it will even out because we got screwed. You added that part. I simply said it will even out because it is not currently even. And that is a fact. It could be that it is uneven for completely legitimate reasons, so far – but even in those cases, things still tend to “even out.” Or it could be that it’s uneven because someone is getting screwed – and in those cases, also, it tends to even out. So my point is, the only thing I said was that it is currently uneven. I gave evidence to support that fact, and I ascribed to the assumed reasoning that “these things even out over the course of a series.” So I predicted that some evening out will happen tonight.
These are predictions of fact, completely independent of any motive, intent, or desire. I have not said that the Lakers have gotten shafted by the refs, nor do I intend to. All I have said is that it is currently not even, and likely will even out. If you ascribe any further implications to that statement, that is on you, not me.
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...
Strength & Honor
by Josh Tucker on May 27, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a clue you miss in all this....
Every fan, of every team sport that has officiating in it, feels their team can get jobbed by the Refs. NuggFan is not exclusive to that. In fact, your mere presence in this shows how sensitive you are to the subject. You’re complaining about fans complaining about Refs. On a Laker board.
The unfortunate reality is that the Refs have become a bigger part of the game than they should be.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on May 27, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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