Complaining About Officiating: Poor Taste or Civic Duty?
by C.A. Clark on May 26, 2009 12:44 PM PDT
in Editorial
103 comments
[Ed. Note: Complaining about the officiating is always a sensitive subject, and rarely done right. Kudos to Chris, for handling the issue with class and staying away from the usual pitfalls, while still calling a spade a spade.]
I don’t like complaining about officiating. It’s the easy way out. It’s a way of ignoring your own team’s shortcomings. It’s a way to make excuses. But, sometimes, it is absolutely necessary. This is one of those times. Right now, I consider it my responsibility to do so.
The NBA is shooting itself in the foot. The officiating this postseason has been so consistently bad that it could very well be causing the game to lose fans. This isn’t about Game 4 of Nuggets vs. Lakers, although that is the impetus. This is about the state of the game, and its referees, as a whole. This is about making sure the NBA Finals is not a free throw contest.
Coming off of what was probably the best combination of the first 4 games in Conference Finals history, every NBA fan in the world was salivating over what the next installments of both series’ would bring. So what were we treated to over this fine Memorial Day Weekend? Free Throws. A whole lot of them. An average of 82 a game.
How insane is that? Here is some perspective. In 82 regular season games, the Lakers participated in a game with more than 80 free throws zero times. They were in a game with more than 70 free throws only 5 times. The average regular season Laker game had 48 combined free throws. How about in the playoffs, you ask? We’ve played two pretty physical teams in Houston and Utah, the numbers must be closer, right? Well, the average per game has certainly increased, up to 55 per game. But no single game, before this series, has topped 70 combined trips to the charity stripe. The last 3 games against Denver have all hit that mark. That is a problem. It is something to complain about. Not as a Lakers fan or as a Nuggets fan, but as a fan of basketball. Free throws aren’t killing the game, but they aren’t doing it any service either. Game 3 of the EC finals was miserable to watch, and Game 4 of the WC finals wasn’t much prettier. I guess somebody forgot to tell the refs that the players tend to play harder when they are this close to winning a championship.
What if this happened in another sport? They say in football that holding could be called on every play. What if, in the Super Bowl, the refs called the game that way, with 10-15 holding penalties on each team? It would be declared an unmitigated disaster. Even worse, what if it were called on every play only for one team?
Playing the ref card is a delicate subject. Complaining about how the referees cost your team the game is almost always short-sighted, because these things do tend to even out over time. And if you are one of the awesome fans who subscribes to the conspiracy theories about how certain teams (which never happen to be your own) get the calls, I have nothing to say to you. But for the rest of us, this is not an issue that should be ignored. And that is exactly what the NBA is doing, ignoring the problem.
Why do I say the NBA is ignoring the problem? Because there are certain refereeing situations that make every knowledgeable NBA fan cringe. Any time your team is on the road and Bennett Salvatore is the main referee, you know you could be in for a long night. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Dick Bavetta. We know this as NBA fans, and yet the NBA continues to trot these guys out for pivotal games. It is either arrogance or ignorance, or both, on the part of the NBA
The best example is Joey Crawford and the San Antonio Spurs. A couple years ago, Crawford was suspended for his interaction with Tim Duncan, a completely unprecedented move on the part of the NBA which would seem to confirm that Crawford had some sort of agenda against The Big Fundamental. And yet, there Crawford was, the main referee for pivotal Game 4 for the Spurs against the Lakers in last year’s WC finals. And, wouldn’t you know it, he made a pivotal (non)call in that game against the Spurs. Why do I point this out, as a Lakers fan? Because of how stupid it was for the NBA to let that situation happen. Forget, for a second, whether or not that call was the right one. Why in the hell would you put Crawford in that game in the first place? If you have an employee that you suspect is stealing money from you, are you going to let him close down the store and count the cash register?
The mainstream media won’t touch this with a 10-foot pole. Sure, Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson will point out individual calls that weren’t so great, and the TNT studio crew is always good for that as well. But none of them will talk about the larger issue of poor officiating as a whole, because their relationship with the NBA pretty much prohibits it. Many of the mainstream bloggers, like Matt at HP and, to a lesser extent, KD over at BDL, will tell you that, yes, the officiating is bad, but complaining about it just comes off as annoying. They provide a large list of reasons why these guys are doing the best they can, and nothing that we say can change the situation anyways.
I say that’s a load of crap. Each and every individual point of it.
The calls will even out over time. Is that supposed to make me feel better about the situation? I’m supposed to be happy that there is a decent chance the Lakers will be given Game 5 because the Nuggets were (allegedly) given Game 4? That’s what I’m supposed to root for, because it’s fair? Why is this considered a positive? Call me utopian, but I don’t want any game to be decided by the men in gray.
The refs are only human. That statement is true, but since when have we ever used that as an adequate excuse for not performing well. Lamar Odom is only human, so are we going to let him off the hook for his uninspired play the last few games. Fisher is only human, but none of us are giving him a pass for shooting that couldn’t be much worse if he were blind-folded. The Machine is only human, and ... really, I only wanted to say that because of its inherent humor. The point is that we’re all only human, but that is not an excuse used to remove accountability or justify incompetence.
There’s nothing we can do to fix it anyways. Is there any other way to read that statement other than as an excuse to stop trying to improve? I guess we should give up on curing cancer, or stopping global warming.
I don’t know what the solution is. Maybe we need to lean heavier on instant replay. Maybe there needs to be a fourth official who sits up in press row with a bunch of different replay monitors and has the authority to reverse bad calls. Maybe the refs need to have a coach who talks to them during timeouts and lets them know what adjustments they need to make. Maybe the NBA needs to do some serious analysis regarding referee performance in different situations, and actually have some teeth when following up on that analysis. Maybe they need to put a fourth official on the court. Maybe they need to pay referees more, so that more qualified people will want to do it. I have no idea how beneficial any of these things would be. What I do know is that I just came up with a bunch of potential ideas in a single paragraph, which is more than the NBA appears to be doing.
That’s why I will continue to complain about officiating. Not because it’s my right as a fan of my team, but because it is my duty as an fan of the NBA. Without the media to make the push, the NBA might think their current strategy of ignoring the issue is OK. They might think it’s alright for them to continue to put certain refs into situations that will have predictable (and negative) outcomes. They need to know that we, as fans of the game, aren’t happy with the current situation. They need to know that this does hurt the game, that it may end up costing them casual fans (i.e. money). They need to know that the problem will not just go away. And we, as fans, have to be the ones that tell them.
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Here's the perspective that hasn't been taken
It’s taken for granted that the refs could do a better job of officiating. That’s obvious.
But could a different set of officials do a better job? I don’t think that should be automatically assumed. It was posted on another thread that NBA officials make upwards of $300K a year. It can be reasonably deduced that NBA officiating is a highly competitive field. Going further along, if it is a highly competitive field, it may be inferred that these are the best of the best referees out there (of course there are bad CEOs in the highly competitive business field, but humor me here).
Maybe our expectations are too high. Maybe this is the best refereeing we can expect in a fast-paced, physical game.
I always point to the example of recreational league and high school reffing. Certainly, you wouldn’t want those guys to be officiating NBA games.
While the refs should always strive to improve their practices, if one were to advocate getting “better” refs, I would warn to be careful what you wish for.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
BY the way, I don't think that's what Frying Dutchman was implying
I like his suggestions on instant replay and an in-game ref supervisor, among others.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on May 26, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
In fact, your points strengthens his
The very possible conclusion that it’s simply not possible for refs to call this game well, because of the inherent nature of the game, is all the more reason to follow the NFL’s lead and take steps beyond real time human perception to improve the officiating. Instant replay, coaching challenges, and Dutch’s other ideas should all be taken seriously – and if we really do think that this actually IS the best effort of the best refs available, then there is absolutely no excuse NOT to implement one or more of these options.
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Strength & Honor
Reciprocity
“It could all be so simple
But you’d rather make it hard
Loving you is like a battle
And we both end up with scars
Tell me, who I have to be
To gain some reciprocity
See, no one loves you more than me
And no one ever will
Is this just a silly game….
….No matter how I think we grow
You always seem to let me know
It ain’t workin’ "
Lauryn Hill
Reciprocity is all the fans want.
The Lakers are 12-3 against the Nuggets in the past 2 years.
forgot some..."Is this just a silly game...
That forces you to act this way
Forces you to scream my name
Then pretend that you can’t stay
Tell me, who I have to be
To gain some reciprocity "
Funny how this this song hits the nail on the head.
The Lakers are 12-3 against the Nuggets in the past 2 years.
Horrible officiating.
I’m a Nuggets fan, and I agree that officiating has been horrible. But it’s funny how we choose different games to point to. You chose game 4 as the ultimate “refs screwed us over” game where I thought it was called much better than game 3. It’s funny how our personal bias influences how we see those calls.
However, that’s not to dismiss your point. Something does need to be done, but what? Instant replay is not so instant. I don’t want referees reviewing every single play. Football is a much easier sport to officiate because of the constant stops and positioning of the players. The ball really only moves one way, you don’t have players passing it back and forth and up and down across the field. Also, the referees are posed with specific jobs and the rules are less arbitrary.
Basketball is much more fluid, and any stop in play is much more noticable. You can’t play basketball with zero physical contact so the referees have to decide how much is too much. Walton’s sixth foul in game 4? I wouldn’t have called that a foul. But nor would I have sent Kobe to the line on the very next play.
Joey Crawford doesn’t only have it in for Duncan and the Spurs. I had stated on Mav’s Moneyball before game 4 (of the last series) that the Mavs would have to slug him in the face for Melo to go to the line. And sure enough, Carmelo went to the line exactly zero times despite taking the ball hard to the rack.
But just like Laker fans see all the non-calls and BS calls against their Lakers, and Nuggets fans see all the non-calls and BS calls against their Nuggs, how do you remove human bias from the officials?
As a Lakers fan,
I was disgusted by the refereeing on Kobe in Game 2, I think?
They pretty much told Dahntay Jones to not breathe on Kobe. It also sucked because you knew we were going to get screwed on the back end. Sure enough, we didn’t maintain focus, and lost the game.
I know Jones can’t play Kobe to save his life, but c’mon, no one want s a game called like that.
The Lakers are 12-3 against the Nuggets in the past 2 years.
That's a pretty big role reversal ...
After being told not to breathe on Kobe in Game 2, they let him get away with two flagrant fouls during the course of the game. Both fouls that were unnecessary and could very well injure someone.
This is the inconsistency that everyone hates.
The human element is something
that needs to be taken into consideration. Ref’s are cursed and yelled at by fans and players every time they step on the floor. Which means that they might also swallow their wistle if someone upsets them or if a team whines too much. On top of that they are looked at under a microscope. Although they take the job well aware of what they are getting themselves into I think that the human element of their jobs is a huge part.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on May 26, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions
And to answer your question:
Complaining about past games or calls is whining, looking to change future games for the better is civic duty.
And we all know that the only reason PJ was complaining about the officiating was to get a friendlier whistle in game 5. Which only extends the problem.
We all want the league to crack down on flopping (as they said they would), but we also know that if you don’t exentuate the contact, you won’t get a call. So you cheer when your player flops and gets the call, but boo all the louder when it’s an opposing player.
PJ Complaining
I don’t think PJ said he was complaining to get calls. He complained about the inconsistencies. I think the majority of bloggers understand that if you need the refs help to win, you don’t deserve the W.
it needs to be consistent
protecting super stars and penalizing rookies should be unacceptable practices. The refs deny they do it but, anecdotal evidence suggests it happens. I have been a laker fan since the days of “the logo” and I have never seen a player get the calls that Carmello has received over the past 2 games. Carmello is a big guy and uses his weight to his advantage. But if a Laker has even leaned on him , the whistle blows. Many of the foul calls against the Lakers were caused when the refs missed Anthony pushing off.
I've noticed this favoritism in the Cavs/Magic series
Lebron can do "no harm no foul. The defender inasmuch as looks at LJ, a foul is called against him, ridiculous.
by Jello Is Jiggling on May 26, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Carmelo is the least respected of the superstars.
Last night he paraded to the free throw line, and as stated above, a few were questionable. However, having watched Melo since he was drafted, there are more drives to the lane where he doesn’t get a call, than ones where he gets the call. In game 4 he often got fouled (no call), got his own rebound, and then was fouled even harder before the whistle blew.
I think most fans think that their star gets fewer calls as opposed to a star from a different team. I bet even Cavs fans think that LBJ deserves more trips to the line, not fewer.
"The calls will even out over time"
For anyone that uses that as some kind of explanation or answer to the poor officiating, I only have one thing to say to you: Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. That’s right, that game. If you’re a non-Laker fan you probably point to that game as the biggest example there is that the NBA is fixing games and/or that they want the Lakers to win. If you’re a Laker fan you probably will bring up how Game 5 of that series was just as one-sided with the officiating, only it benefited Sacramento in that game. Game 6 was, IMO, a perfect example of calls “evening out over time” and it was pure and total nonsense. Personally I’d just rather that the refs got it right the first time and didn’t have to have “make-up calls”, or worse “make-up games” where the calls will suddenly even out.
Look at Games 3 and 4 of this series. In Game 3 four Denver starters had at least 5 fouls and two of them (K-Mart and Melo) fouled out. In Game 4 only three Denver players had more than 2 fouls (K-Mart with 3, JR Smith with 4 and Melo with 5). In Game 3 no Laker had more than 4 fouls. In Game 4 there were 4 Lakers who finished with at least 5 fouls, and one of them (Luke Walton) fouled out after picking up zero fouls in the previous game. In Game 3 the Lakers enjoyed a +14 free throw differential. In Game 4 the Nuggets enjoyed that same +14 free throw differential.
Were things really so different from one game to the next, or was the officiating just reversed? Seems awfully suspicious to me, and it’s equally suspicious for Game 3 as it was for Game 4. Here’s hoping the refs just call it fair and even the rest of the way.
Not only that
But it even appears that the refs attempt to even it out over the course of a game. Game 1, the Nuggets got more calls than the Lakers before half because they came out more aggressive. The second half, the Lakers received what I would call “make-up” calls as the style of play hadn’t changed much. Game 2, the Lakers received more calls as they were the more aggressive team in the first half, yet the Nuggets won the whistle in the second half (with more than one blown call.) Game 3, again the Nuggs got the whistle early (and PJ stated, “we’re fouling early so we don’t foul late.”), but the refs came out in the second half tweeting for LA.
I think the problem is that the referees want the appearance of “fairness,” without actually being fair.
What's worse is that
as fans, we expect it.
We are conditioned.
The Lakers are 12-3 against the Nuggets in the past 2 years.
Bitching about the refs is an exercise in Loserism...
Winning teams don’t complain, losing teams do. It is, indeed, the easy out…
This article did not appear after a Laker win, but rather after the Lakers got their asses handed to them by Denver. This is no accident.
If the Lakers torch Denver in the next two games, all will be forgiven and forgotten.
The games are called by human beings. In the end, it all does even out.
Aggressive teams get the calls — jumpshooters do not.
Home teams get certain calls that are on the borderline. It always has been that way and always will be that way because of human nature.
There are certain refs with minor personality disorders that call AGAINST the home teams for psychological reasons (Steve Javie, this is your life). They are a definite minority and serve to offset to some extent the “homer” refs…
A limited “challenge” replay system might be of some use in correcting grievous errors. The little errors are going to happen even if you had an annual America’s Greatest Referee contest with 100,000 entrants and paid the winner $6.2 Million a year. The game happens fast, things look different from different angles, and there is too much going on for three human beings to instantaneously comprehend.
Like I say, bitching about the tides of the ocean is a preoccupation of losing teams and losing fans. I prefer to give it a miss.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Every game has a Winning Team and a Whining Team, ha ha...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I think replay should be used exclusively for hard fouls and when no one saw who touched it last. Let the men in stripes call the game. If they need a second look as to whether Bynum was making his angry face as he clobbered the Birdman over the head or whether he was just making a play on the ball, go ahead. When it comes to flagrants and technicals (that aren’t for mouthing off to the official) the refs should have the opportunity to get it right at that exact moment. Sure, letting the league rescind a tech so you don’t reach 7 is one thing, but removing the points scored on a technical foul shot is an entirely different animal. Get it right the first time, when it counts.
Also, if none of the three referees got a clear view of who touched the ball last before it went out of bounds, instead of a jump ball, why not review it? It’s a play that would get reviewed maybe once in every 5 games (unless the refs got lazy) and is just as important.
exactly
use replay for where it makes sense. And I loved Gundy’s idea of a “chip” in the basketball to help determine goaltending.
While completely unfeasible, I’d suggest something a bit more advanced, like a four camera tracking system that tracks the arc of a shot, and if it gets interrupted on it’s downward arc, an alarm/buzzer/siren whatever goes off, indicating a goal tend.
You couldn't do an alarm or buzzer
Alley oops and blocks would be affected. It would have to be just a light, somewhere, or some sort of visual indicator that doesn’t actually affect the players or cause any sort of intrusive sensory input, but is there for the refs to look to whenever a goaltend is in question. If the light is lit, it was a goaltend. If it’s not, it wasn’t. If it was an alley oop or block, they don’t even look at the light in the first place.
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Strength & Honor
This is weird. I am a Spurs guy here and this postseason has been really interesting and captivating so far except for the last Cavs game which I turned off after first quarter. And that was becoz of the Cavs were playing uninspired basketball, forget the refs.
Calling the whole postseason in bad shape is an overstatement to say the least. I will grant, any laker humiliation is a naughty pleasure for a Spur guy, but I love the game as well, yesterday didn’t seem bad. Yeah its too bad, the refs didn’t catch many of the antics by the Nuggs, but thats a matter for chuckling if yer not a laker fan. They did let them play aggressively in the beginning until at some point everything got really rough.
Between Vujacic, Gasol(seriously this guy needs to stop crying on the court every possession), Fisher, Odom who use every sneaky play and trip they can do without being spotted, lets not go for refs yet. If Walton is stupid enough to push his luck coz of his fragile ego, well, he needs to learn post season play.
aww man
and here I thought we had an understanding between us Spurs and Lakers fans. You have to realize, we don’t really hate you guys. We respect you. The Spurs are the ONLY franchise Laker fans respect. You guys keep it classy, you work hard, you don’t bitch, complain, whine, etc.
And you go and backstab us like that? Go away!
Wait...
A Spurs fan wants to criticize Gasol for “crying on the court every possession?” Tim Duncan is the king of that. Duncan is the only player I know of who can actually get the call and still keep complaining.
And I don’t think a fan of a team that boasts Bruce Bowen as their “elite defender” has any room to talk about sneaking plays, tripping, etc.
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Strength & Honor
Dude..read my post. Since having watched Bruce for most of a decade time, some of us Spurs fans can actually teach you sneaky plays and tripping and ball denial and elbow locks and causing visceral hate in the other guy which affects his game Lol.
Bruce pushed the limits in the post season and see what that has reaped us. So who said i am complaining lmao. Like I said, the postseason has been fun even without my team in there and the refs, though not perfect, are still letting everyone play for the most part imo so far except for that last Cavs game.
Nobody said you were complaining
You were criticizing our players when your players are on the same level or far worse than ours.
As for the refs letting everyone play? I’m curious as to what games you are watching. Both Conference Finals haven’t been letting them play for the “most” part.
Hmm, let me see if I can put this differently so you understand. Just like the Spurs have been a ‘veteran’ team with Horry, Bruce, Malik etc etc and have consistently gotten away with a lot of stuff in the postseasons, which in our book is standard postseason fare, which we expect to receive as well. Thats what I was trying to say. All the laker vets should know better and be prepared to dish and receive and ramp it up or tone it down depending on how refs are calling it.
So yeah, I criticized those guys for losing it and poor effort and lack of savvy yesterday. And hey, they are human, so everybody has a bad day. They all took it together.
Randomn side comment: I saw at least four or five times where Gasol worked hard and got decent post position but the ball handler right in front never dumped the ball to him. Gasol could have elicited at least 5+ more fouls on Nuggs yesterday easily but they never went to him and he seemed to visibly get upset with each trip and no ball. I thought that was real stupid strat by lakers.
This is BS, and is every bit as much an excuse as complaining about the refs
I’m not big on blaming the refs for a loss. I speak my mind during game threads, but you’ve never yet seen me complain about the officiating in a blog post. In fact, I have a history of encouraging angry Lakers fans to do just the opposite. After Game 2 of the 2008 Finals, I encouraged Lakers fans to stop blaming the refs for the loss.
But to say that you can never complain about officiating is arbitrary bullshit. And to blame it on homerism is an Ad Hominem fallacy. Your primary argument against this post is that it comes after a Lakers game. I see hardly any response to anything Chris wrote. Do you intend to suggest that it is literally impossible for the refs to determine the outcome of a game? Because if so, you’re being unreasonable. But if it is possible, someone please explain to me why the fans shouldn’t be upset if it happens?
Now, I’ll agree that fans have a tendency to believe this to be the case far more often than it actually is. But the fact remains that claiming someone is complaining about the officiating only because their team lost is not a valid argument.
I’m sorry, but I’m not here to look the other way, any more than I am here to dumbly repeat homeristic perspectives. I’m here to call it as it is. And sometimes, it is that the officiating sucks, and a spade should be called a spade. That is the case throughout these playoffs. It was also the case last night.
You want to compare Games 3 and 4? Review the play by play, and you’ll find that in both cases, the Lakers got a lot of garbage time free throws. In Game 3, it was Kobe attacking and the Nuggets putting him at the line. It was a close game strategy, and it didn’t work. In Game 4, however, it was again Kobe attacking – this time, in a no-holds-barred effort to gun the Lakers back into the game. Again, his aggressiveness resulted in a lot of Nuggets fouls. The discrepancy would be easier to explain if, in both cases, it was simply that the winning team spent a lot of time at the line at the end of the game, because of garbage time. But in fact, the Lakers (Kobe) spent a lot of time at the line at the end of BOTH games, during garbage time. That that can happen, but the Nuggets still end up +14 in Game 4, is fishy.
I’m not saying the Lakers lost because of the refs. Read my recap, I never went there. I’ve never said that about any game, ever. But I will say that they were prevented from getting back in the game by the refs.
Is it the Lakers fault that they were behind and needed to get back in the game, in the first place? Yes, absolutely. But I dare you to tell me that a team doesn’t deserve the opportunity to get back in the game, even if only they are to blame for being behind in the first place.
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Strength & Honor
There are some games in which you will lose the free throw differential by leaps and bounds but the game was called straight.
The Nuggets lead the league in trips to the free-throw line and it’s definitely not because they’re in every official’s top 5. It’s part and parcel to the way they play. Despite what the ESPN announcers say, the Nuggets do not have a single guy who is a spot up shooter. Every single guy that the Nuggets put on the floor is someone who is capable of (and predisposed to) taking the ball to the rack. J.R. loves the 3-ball — but there isn’t a game where he doesn’t drive hard to the rim. Kleiza has become a spot-up shooter in these last two games because he’s trying to unclog the lane, but he’s better known for hook shots and dunks (surprisingly.) Melo has a great jab-step on his shot, but that only works because he can and will drive to the lane.
As has been stated, Denver is not a finesse team. Denver loses games when they settle for jumpshots. Their gameplan going in is to get to the rim and finish or get foul shots. So to say that the refs are calling the game unfairly because Denver has 14 more foul shots is to assume that each team should be awarded foul shots no matter how they play. Which would be an even bigger tragedy.
This topic never would have come up if the Lakers beat the Nuggets by 19 last night, and that's a fact...
If you want to have a theoretical discussion about refereeing or a dispassionate quantitative analysis of whether officiating differed in the regular season from the playoffs this year, that’s fine. There is a time and a place for it, and that is the OFF SEASON.
Right now, in the head of the moment, in the wake of a big loss, this is what I hear:
“WAAAAAAAAAA. WHAAAAAAAAAAAA. WAAAAAAAAAAAAA.!!!”
The good guys win some and lose some, and the officials make good calls and they make bad calls and they miss calls.
Sometimes they will even change game results, unfortunately.
This isn’t the time or place for careful analysis.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Calling a spade a spade is fine. But I can’t remember too many calls yesterday against the lakers which weren’t called on the Nugg side as well.
I remember Walton coming in and getting four straight and fouling out(is that right?) and those were all chesting up on the ball handler or some such touchy foul call. Well, I dun necessarily agree with those calls, but then again, this is Lukey Walton lmao. Is he thinking after they called him the first times, he is special so they will give him a pass the next two times. And I think he got all of them on the same possession. So that would be the ‘human element’ on the ref side saying…dude yer a nobody pissing me off and I am throwing you out. And in Luke’s head, that would be the ‘human element’ saying, I am special, dun you dare call these fouls on me. If it was a Spur, Pop would have called t/o and ripped the player a new one and saved something for the ref as well. Too bad for Walton phil is different.
Who else on the lakers got whistled for tick tack fouls. Now for the other side, how many plays in the game did the refs see Nuggs mauling Laker boys and not call it. The kobe trip they never saw. Am sure theres more, but enough to cover a free throw mismatch of 14? I dun think so. Before you complain about that for yesterday’s game…rip your Laker boys for their pathetic rebounding which really lost them the game. What was it…20 rebounds or something and that tells you Nuggs were far more aggressive or extremely lucky, whichever it was, is enough to win you the game and get you more trips to the line.
You are such a homer!
Lion Zion,
You really didn’t read the post above before posting your comments, now did you???
The comment was made that the ref’s calls PREVENTED the lakers from getting back into the game. Did you actually see those “fouls” on Walton? Kobe is ridden far harder most games and does not get those types of calls. If CA called those fouls in a pick up game, he would be laughed out of the gymn. The ref’s used to do the opposite – call the game tight early, then let THE PLAYERS decide it in the 4th. This was a sorry case of the opposite!
Regardless of the team you root for, this is not fun for the fans to watch…
Yeah I am Spurs homer. Dun think I disguised it.
I read every post. Maybe didn’t bother to address every point.
Umm, now if you read my post(lol), I am actually saying Walton wasn’t doing much to warrant fouls, but since the refs were calling it, he should have had the sense to stop after the second or third or so on the same possession. So yeah, that period of the game was ugly to laker fans. To a guy rooting against the lakers, its cool. All I see is Walton digging his teams grave repeatedly late in the game. Its a double edged sword, you can say refs prevented the lakers from having a chance then. I could say, Walton could have stopped giving the refs any excuse. Both are partially true, but in playoffs you try and be smart about what you can control.
Same as JR repeatedly blatantly taunting anything in purple walking next to him late in the game and being whistled for technicals. Though I agree with him that Vujacic is annoying, Vujacic most often is causing the other team trouble than his own, while Smith is costing his team so far in the playoffs except for yesterday imo.
Those were NOT fouls
What you fail to understand is that Walton was NOT fouling CA. The only thing that could have been done was to switch Kobe onto CA and they would NOT have made those same calls. The problem was NOT that Walton fouled CA, it’s that the ref’s have no respect for Walton (and I think they were still upset by his technical moments earlier) and were out to prove their point, whatever it was. Like I say, Kobe guards the same way and there were no fouls there. They would NOT have fouled kobe out, but Walton – sure, why not!
Bad calls are as much a part of the game as is bad shots.
Are we now going to stop play and have players retake bad shots, perhaps we can have coaches redesign inbound pass plays and replay them because they did not work. Naah, naah. Refs decisions are much part of the game as player’s and coach’s decisions and should stand as is and left alone. Besides, bitching is fun and part of any sporting event.
by Jello Is Jiggling on May 26, 2009 2:44 PM PDT reply actions
Disagree.
Bad shots and bad calls are not a good comparison. Bad shots are taken by players who have a direct influence on the outcome of the game. Bad calls are made by three supposedly impartial officials that don’t have as much of an influence on the game as the players do.
I like the bad calls/bad shots analogy...
Shit happens, plain and simple. The NBA is continuous action for several minutes at a time, vs. the NFL, with its 10 second spurts interrupted by 40 second stops. Not to mention MLB’s ability to cram 5 minutes of action into a 3 hour game…
There is ALWAYS going to be officiating deficiency in the NBA. There always has been, there is now, and there always will be.
This is not to say that there aren’t things to be done to mitigate it.
But the real question of the hour should be: Why did the Lakers get their asses stomped last night?
This is a diversion.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Why did the Lakers get their asses stomped last night?
Rebounds. Plain and simple.
But I don’t think is a diversion considering we’ve got game recaps that pounded that in and only one post to discuss the inconsistency of the officiating. If we didn’t mention the rebounding then I would agree with your diversion claim.
"This is a diversion"
Yes. It is.
Wonderful, ain’t it.
Let’s talk about this until the Lakers win Game 5, and all goes back to normal for 2 days.
The Lakers are 12-3 against the Nuggets in the past 2 years.
NBA needs to do more
more officials for more eyes on the action, more use of replay
The officials for the NFL are only human, but if instant replay has proved one thing, it’s proved that the NFL refs are f**king GOOD. They can spot whether a ball hits the ground between a recievers legs from 20 yards away. But an NBA official makes guesses on what happens because he can’t see the ball, or even when he does see the action clearly, he can’t tell the difference between a hand hitting the ball or the arm, and this from 10-20 feet away.
I love the NBA, but officiating is making me less and less of a fan.
The difference between the NFL and NBA is the flow of the game
Like someone mentioned earlier, basketball is a flowing sport whereas football has more stops and breaks when the offense steps off the field for the defense to come in. That is why there are so many officials in an NFL game. If you had that many in a NBA game, the game will practically grind to a halt. Not many people want to see games like that.
i disagree
The NFL, once the ball snaps, is the fastest sport in the world when considering men on foot. The action going all over the field is beyond measure, and considering the number of officials they have for the size and number of players, their excellence is beyond question. They do make mistakes, and that would be the human element, but replay has proved time and time again, NFL refs do the best of any of the four major sports in making a correct call, at a distance, and at full speed.
Consider this
Once the ball snaps, there is action everywhere. That alone justifies the amount of officials they employ. The secondary, the line of scrimmage, and the backfield.
The officials don’t focus on the entire field. They focus on a specific area to make sure the game is officiated as accurately as possible.
However, in the NBA, you have 3 officials. The action is constant with the exception of free throws and they have to cover all positions. It seems harder than just focusing on the post play or the perimeter play.
exactly
so what’s wrong with 2 permanent baseline officials to see all action under the basket from that angle, while maintaining the rotating 3 official set (only with 2 on the sidelines and 1 at halfcourt).
I see no issue with this. While it may initially result in a massive increase in fouls, over time it would actually dramatically reduce the number of fouls as players stop trying things they hope will get a call from an out of position official.
I think that is the point of an increase in officials
It would decrease the flow of basketball. Basketball is a flowing sport. Just think of it this way: Would you rather watch a run and gun style or would you rather watch the New York Knicks of the 90s? More officials would basically grind the flowing style to a halt, which in essence, is the opposite of what basketball was supposed to be about.
it would balance out over a season or two
Players would get called more often than naught for awhile, maybe a whole season, as they adjust to more officials being able to see all their dirty little tricks. But just as players slowly accostomed themselves to the hand-checking rules, they can learn to adapt to this. And in the end, we’d ALL be blessed with less fouls overall, as players stop trying to pull off things they know an official will or won’t call.
Just because it might make the game unwatchable for a short period of time, is it really not worth the effort for the greater end goal? This is the same as many things you see in the world today… recycling, hybrid cars, solar panels, etc. While it might be a pain in the ass now, the end result benefits all. The argument to DO NOTHING is a sign of complacency, laziness, and pretty much full on Republican. :)
Absolutely disagree.
In the NFL the linesman has almost no other job than to look for the ball (and it’s usually not in the middle of 10 guys at one time). It’s easy to spot something when there are only 2 players involved and you only have to look for one or two things.
Also, more referees means more blown whistles. If one ref blows the whistle for a foul, it’s a foul on someone. Always. You don’t see refs overturning foul calls — rather they’ll just argue that it was offensive and not defensive. They don’t just say, “oops, do-over.” Then we’re not shooting 84 free throws, but 112.
Stern is always paying lip service to bettering the officiating.
I wonder why they can’t have like 3 challenges or something which the Coach can use in the game which are reviewable at the next dead ball or so. That doesn’t seem like too many deadball situations. So the Kobe trip would be caught at the next dead ball etc.
But don't you guys think
That if the refs were to “let them play” (and I’d agree that they aren’t) that would favor the more physical team, in this case being the Nuggets? Like my friend NuggBuckets has said, I thought game 3 was swung atrociously in favor of the Lakers. But officiating wasn’ the reason the Nuggets lost. They blew the 8 point lead going into the 4th quarter on their own.
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
I agree
The Nuggets won game 2 despite the Lakers being favored by the whistle because they knocked down shots. They lost game 3 because they couldn’t make a shot, whether the whistle blew or not.
being favored is up to opinion
I’m sure if some one went through and looked at each foul called in every game, 4/5ths would be correct calls. While they might be “ticky-tack” fouls, or fouls that weren’t called at other points in the game or other games, they are STILL FOULS.
What drives most people nuts is the non-calls. The NBA has a rulebook for a reason. USE IT!
The bigger issue is consistency
I have no problem with calling ticky tack fouls, or “letting them play,” or something in between. Whatever you want it to be, that’s fine. I don’t even care that much if it’s different in two different games. The important thing is that you call it consistently on both ends. Ticky tack fouls are fine, so long as both teams are getting called for them.
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...
Strength & Honor
+1
Which is why both teams have been complaining about officiating. The officials call it a certain way in the first half or first quarter and then they up and change the way they call it in the second half.
yep
if you’re not going to make the call in the first half, fine, then that’s how the game is played. But if you then start calling that same thing a foul in the second half, (and usually against the team who felt it was getting fouled in the first half) and use the rules as the excuse for why it is a foul, that’s beyond lame. It’s lazy, and inexcusable.
Yeah, that's not my favorite thing, either
It makes it hard for players to know what they can and can’t do.
That said, I’m less concerned about that than I am about in-the-moment consistency. If the refs decide to start calling it tighter later in the game than they did earlier, that’s not ideal, but not the worst thing either, so long as it was looser on both ends earlier in the game, and they tighten is up equally on both ends later in the game.
The bigger problem is when, at any specific point in the game, they are currently calling it one way on one end, and the other way on the other end. Everything else is inconvenient, but if the same applies at both ends, at least it’s fair. But if you’re calling one thing at one end, and another at the other end, at the same point in the game, then it’s not just inconsistent, it’s also unfair. That, to me, is the biggest problem.
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...
Strength & Honor
Well, for the officials to call it “consistently” or keep it “monotone”, the players on the floor should play for 48 mins at the same level of passion without getting over/under aggressive. Doesn’t that make sense?
If passions are escalating on both sides, the refs can’t just let everything get rougher and rougher. They gotta call enough fouls to let both teams know. Unfortunately, it almost always will NOT end up equal with sometimes the aggressor benefitting and at other times, like in the case of Walton yesterday, losing.
No
Not if they’re letting them play on both ends.
The idea that the Lakers can’t handle physical ball is a myth. Their actual problem has more to do with motivation and intensity than toughness. If it’s consistent – whatever “it” is – the Lakers can handle it.
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Strength & Honor
There is also the perception that has to be factored in
When you get used to a style of play, you tend to see that as the norm for a team. For a team like the Lakers that can play physical but are tagged with a finesse label, they will no doubt get more calls when they start playing physical because it is glaring.
So if the refs were to “let them play”, I wouldn’t disagree that the Nuggets would have an advantage but they don’t have as big of an advantage as many people might think. The Lakers are capable of playing physical and winning (as evidenced by their 4-0 record against the Cavs and the Celtics; two teams that have the “physical” label).
Agreed
Anyone who has played against Utah understands this to be true. Because they’re known to be physical, it is perceived as regular play by the refs. The other team does exactly what Utah is being allowed to do, but because they don’t have that same reputation, it is seen as overly and unusually physical, and interpreted as a foul.
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Strength & Honor
I thought Denver has the label ‘Thuggets’ and rough play from them was also an accepted reality of playoff ball.
Trust me, even Kenyon Martin will tell you that he along with Camby and Najera and Melo, and whoever else were there, practically broke different parts of Manu in 2007 and guess what Pop or anyone else will say.
But what about the Spurs label?
I’m pretty sure the Spurs were able to get away with the same rough play too because of their perception.
The issue at hand here is because our team was given the label of “softies” (justified or unjustified) and therefore when we want to adjust to the more physical nature of the postseason by upping our aggression and physicality, we are assessed with more fouls because it is not the norm for us throughout the course of the regular season. That’s why PJ had to speak out. He’s done so with every team he’s coached so it’s not a surprise.
Yeah, Phil speaking out is not a surprise to anyone. He would have done it anyways when the other team is physical and his best guy is having to work way too hard in all quarters. Thats part of Phil working the series. And in the past, at least against Spurs, I can’t say with complete conviction that it was an exercise in futility.
But the lakers being ‘softies’ lol. Some of us see that us ‘lazy’ or ‘entitled coasters’ etc a lot of them times(notice I said ‘a lot’). So yeah, when they decide to play hard and physical, I dun really have an answer to that question about the ‘human element’ penalizing them for it.
But lets not get carried away, no matter what your label is, that is realistically not affecting any officiating to the tune of 14+ trips to the line. Thats the other team being smarter and fortunate while the laker vets not turning it up in intensity.
Seriously, the Nuggets lost twice this series becoz their peeps didn’t have the playoff poise to execute in the last two mins of both games. I fully expected the lakers to avoid stupid mistakes and win it and was also disappointed in the outcome when they did what I expected them to.
What upsets me is how many calls the league is overturning
Kenyon Martin has had 3 technicals overturned, Kobe has had one overturned, Dahntay Jones has had two flagrant fouls assessed after the fact, and Anthony Johnson of the Magic had his overturned. Plus the league is currently reviewing Bynum’s flagrant.
I know that Rye will have more on this at a later date, but it blows my mind that the league is telling the officials to call the game one way and then changing the rulings to fit the spirit of the law after the fact. Technicals and flagrant fouls can have a huge impact on the game, and the league needs to place an emphasis on getting it right the first time, not mopping up the mess the next day
Because if they get it right the first time
Stu Jackson will be out of work and we wouldn’t have all this spirited debates.
This is a classic case of covering their collective asses
They are calling the T’s and flagrants knowing that the league will go back and rescind based on the visual evidence. It seems that most of the reversals to the on court decisions have involved taking away flagrants or T’s (the exceptions being Dahntay Jones and Kobe’s elbow against Artest).
Unfortunately, you can not take away the free throws and possession afterwards or overturn actual gameplay and that’s where the problem lies.
Nick Adenhart - 1986 - 2009 R.I.P.
The refs should get fined for every technical or flagrant the league has to rescind.
(Not the ones they miss because obviously it happens)
+fucking 100
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
So wait
Laker fans are blaming the Refs? WOW, you guys have KOBE the whistle magnet! And how many T’s did the Nuggets get??
These guys are having a very intriguing discussion
and then you come in here, with no insight what so ever and without reading any of the posts and then drop this gem. Good for you.
Nick Adenhart - 1986 - 2009 R.I.P.
Kobe isn't the whistle magnet you would think.
He doesn’t nearly get the calls you would come to expect a star player to get. I mean he was flat out intentionally tripped by Dahntay Jones and there was no call. Oh and don’t forget the flagrant-1 call on Bynum, which he actually got part of the ball. I figure the NBA will take that one away if they are smart.
I am not saying we lost because of the refs, that was because they couldn’t rebound to save their lives. However the refs didn’t make it any easier. Every time one player touches another, there goes the whistle. This isn’t just the LAL/DEN series, it has been in other series as well.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
Lakers and Nuggets tied 2-2
That's the problem
He doesn’t nearly get the calls you would come to expect a star player to get.
Why should the fouls he gets called be any different than what Brian Cardinal or a 2nd-round rookie or Josh Boone or whatever gets?
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
If I were him I would just send a bunch of blank checks to the league.....
and tell them to fill them out whenever they see fit………..Of course this action would also incur a fine. LOL.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Quite a little firestorm I started
Unfortunately, I was at work all day and therefore unable to respond to all this in the moment. Here’s what I think about the main comments to the post.
To pretty much all the Nuggets fans that have pointed out game 3’s officiating as a counter-point: I’m not sure it was clear, but my post was about both game 3 and game 4. I think there were too many free throws in both, and game 3 of the EC finals to boot. The initial free throw totals analysis is on three games, not two. What I was striving for is that the refs are playing a larger role in these games than anyone should want them to, and the calls have not been adjusted for playoff intensity like they should. I didn’t even touch that much on inconsistency on a game to game, or even in-game, basis. Those points were made in much more depth by Yams and Josh later.
@ Timbo: Your inability to look at the argument stated impartially due to its “timing” shows every bit as much bias on your part as you accused me of. The only time I even remotely make a pro-Laker, anti-Denver point, I even point out that I am alleging that the refs called game 4 in Denver’s favor. And, really, that whole statement was just used to point out that the current “correct” answer to a badly called game is another badly called game the opposite direction, and I don’t want that. I’m aware of my bias on the matter, and did everything I could to stay away from that bias. Do you know yours?
Yes, I wrote this after a Lakers loss. The motivation to click through 100+ box scores looking at free throw totals doesn’t come easily. But my argument is almost completely free of that.
Also, there seems to be a prevaling opinion here that more refs would mean more fouls, and I think I disagree with that statement. It would most certainly be true if the refs we currently have were only calling what they see, but it’s clear to me that refs call what they think is happening, instead of what they see happen. This is the crux of why superstars get so many calls. The refs basically assume that if the superstar wasn’t successful in doing what they wanted to do, it was probably a foul that prevented them from doing it. So, more refs could end up meaning less fouls because refs wouldn’t have to rely on estimation nearly as much. That would combat the initial uptick in fouls called due to refs seeing more of the “tricks” that players use in the course of the game.
Nice work FD,
especially looking through all those box scores. It was one of the guys on the TNT crew at halfime that pointed out that the refs seem to assume there is a foul when two players make contact.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
Lakers and Nuggets tied 2-2
One more thing
Doesn’t the officiating crew change from game to game?
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
Lakers and Nuggets tied 2-2
The way I see it here there is a argument between bad refereeing and unfair refereeing.
I don’t believe there is unfair refereeing at least not in the long run. However the real issue here is BAD refereeing. Let me give you an example. Let’s say as an experiment the officials purposely make EVERY single call wrong. Every call. At the end of the game the outcome would be just as fair as if they had made every call right, but the officiating would be very, very, BAD.
In my opinion the refereeing in the NBA is by far the worst of all major sports, and it’s not even close. Do any of you ever hear about refereeing as it relates to other sports on a day to day basis. Yeah there are the occasional calls, like Ed Hochuli’s bad call against San Diego Chargers, or the non-strike, strike 3 in the Angels/White Sox playoff game a few years ago, but they are rare. I have never, never, heard of a SUPERSTAR call in any other sport. Can you imagine hearing “Tom Brady never gets called when he passes from over the line of scrimage”, or “Alex Rodriguez has the smallest strike zone in baseball”. It just doesn’t happen. Is the NBA THAT difficult to referee? If it is then they need to come up with a better system, because they are losing the trust of the fans.
These are playoff games and the fans and players deserve better. We all know Fisher fouled Barry last year and hopefully none of you said “naw that’s not a foul” simply because you are a Laker homer. Yeah it evens out eventually, but that doesn’t make it right. I thought we all learned “two wrongs don’t make a right” a long time ago???
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I can agree with this all of this whole heartedly.
And before anyone assumes its becoz he mentioned Fisher, its not. When that happened, my immediate thought was, Barry lost us the game by not selling the foul and reacting way too late(anyway that possession shouldn’t have happened if not for a previous ref goof up). Refs are under a very big microscope that late in the game, and you gotta give them a big enough sell to call it.
But then the conundrum. How do you better the referee system and still have your superstars and the euro step and the crab dribble. Lol. A great team can do good clean execution end of game. The weak team will try to compensate with rough play and fouls which may or may not be called. How do you change that?
The Barry call was a load of crap.
You can’t say a player has to sell it better. A foul is a foul. Yeah I think there shouldn’t be any ticky tac fouls in late game situations (or ever, "remember no harm no foul), but that was a legitimate foul. If he dives into Fisher to get the call then we all bitch about that.
Maybe each official (maybe more than 3) needs to have a specialty like in Football. One ref for posession, one for fouls, one for whatever else, etc…. Who knows, just a suggestion. Here’s a question. Why do the ref’s have to be on the court? TV coverage is amazing. You could add more cameras, have 3-4 officials sitting courtside with monitors, give them a specific part of the game to watch and let them decide. It takes away replay problems as replay would be almost instantaneous. Just a thought, probably a bad one.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
The officiating can be better
I agree I think the refs do the best they can but their BEST isn’t always good and thats when the League needs to step in and improve the game so no one and no team can feel like the refs took them out of the game. My suggestions are: Either get MORE refs on the floor instead of 3 refs have 6 or add Replay and allow Coaches to challenge plays on the floor. I wouldnt’ have a problem with the game slowing down because I want refs to get the call right and that’s all that matters.
Great post
Problem is, I’m not sure anything can really be done to fix it. As others have pointed out, basketball at its most entertaining best depends entirely on ebb and flow – bringing more officials/instant replay/gizmos etc will only result in more interruptions. Yeah, you might see a few bad calls avoided and/or reversed, but I fear that ultimately the cure would be worse than the disease.
Still, big ups for an intelligent, well-reasoned argument, and for tackling an issue the NBA is determined to pretend doesn’t exist. The one thing that I would add is that the successful teams seem to play (almost) as though the refs weren’t there. In all the Nuggets recent 1st round exits, we whined constantly about the whistles we weren’t getting, while the Spurs/Lakers/T-Wolves simply went about their business, playing their style of ball and letting the calls fall where they may. Nuggets seemed to figure that out this year, and I’d argue it’s a big part of their postseason gains.
Posted by "puddle" on LA times Laker Blog
The NBA officiating this postseason has been beyond atrocious. By my count, there have been 13 egregiously blown calls…"
1) Rajon Rondo asking Brad Miller what the five fingers say to the face (called foul, league upheld (bad) call and did not upgrade to flagrant)
2) Rajon Rondo throwing Kirk Hinrich into the scorer’s table (HINRICH assessed a technical for reacting, foul call on Rondo, again no flagrant upgrade from league (huh?!))
3) Kobe’s elbow to Ron Artest’s chest (missed altogether, later assessed as flagrant 1)
4) Kobe doing nothing and Artest freaking out like a little girl being chased by a bee (assessed as flagrant 1, later rescinded by league)
5) Artest’s foul on Gasol (assessed as flagrant 2, later downgraded to flagrant 1, should have been no flagrant call)
6) Dwight Howard’s elbow to Dalembert’s head (called a technical foul, upgraded to flagrant 2, which = suspension)
7) Kendrick Perkins elbow to Pietrus’ head (not called, league admitted was foul, but not flagrant)
8) Wright trying to intentionally foul Carmelo (missed altogether, league admitted refs missed call, cost Mavs game and, less likely, the series – series went 3-0 instead of 2-1)
9) Anthony Johnson’s elbow to Mo Williams (called flagrant 1, rescinded by league)
10) Andrew Bynum’s foul on Birdman (called flagrant 1, later rescinded by league)
11) Mo Williams throws ball at Dwight Howard (missed altogether, no review by league)
12) Dahntay Jones trips Kobe (missed altogether, later assessed as flagrant 1)
13) Kenyon Martin shoves Dirk Nowitzki (called foul, later upgraded to flagrant 1 PLUS fined $25,000)
14) Dahntay Jones shoves Kobe in back (called foul, later assessed as flagrant 1)
Seems when you look at it as a whole it is getting a little ridiculous.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Now THAT was a BS last second call.
The conspiracy theorists will be out in force tonight
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Are you talking about that foul on Lebron at the end of regulation?
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
Lakers and Nuggets tied 2-2
Yup
Too many fouls called this postseason
but then again, i haven’t seen the playoffs so physical
and emotional for a long time.
From all the first round series to the conference finals now
it has been incredibly entertaining and very close from top to bottom
Lets start simple
no more of the back-side refs calling a foul when they’re obviously not seeing the whole play. Most annoying thing ever. Let the guys that see the play call the foul.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
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