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Fast Break Fouls: Wade vs. Ariza

I never really got into the huge internet hissy fit over Trevor Ariza's block-from-behind foul on Rudy Fernandez in the regular season, mainly because I wasn't a Lakers blogger at the time. But now I am, and what do you know? It has come up again.

Last night, Dwyane Wade did essentially the same thing to Maurice Evans that Ariza did to Fernandez. But — surprise, surprise — he's not getting the third degree, the way Ariza did.

Wade's foul on Evans is below. Much more after the jump...

 

Star-divide

My Thoughts At The Time

If you're wondering what my take was at the time, here's a brief summary. Those who said it was a dirty play were just plain ridiculous. This photo (shown below) shows two things: (1) Ariza's hand on the ball plainly shows what he was attempting to do, which was block the ball, and (2) Ariza's eyes aren't bearing down on Rudy's head, they're looking up at the ball.

Those who said Ariza had any intention of hurting Rudy are outright fools, or homers who can't see past their team colors. It's such an absurd notion that I'm not even going to spend any more time on it.

Was it a dangerous play? Yeah, it probably was. After all, it resulted in injury. Does Fernandez deserve to be called a wuss (and worse) by Laker fans? No, and those of you who do so are also outright fools. Should Ariza have simply extended his hand upwards, instead of swiping at the ball (and, incidentally, Rudy's arms and head)? Yes.

That said, Ariza was simply doing what virtually any player in his position would do: Not giving up on the play, going for a block, and trying to make an emphatic, energizing play while he was at it. Players do the same every day in the league. Unfortunately, it ended poorly for Fernandez.

My final thought on the matter was this: If the league wants to make a ruling that such plays are illegal, and punishable with flagrant fouls, ejections, suspensions, etc., then that is their prerogative. I'm sure many people would applaud that. But they haven't done that yet, and until they do, a play like the one Ariza attempted is a widely accepted and practiced play, and it's going to continue to happen. Hopefully, it won't always result in injury, but the job of the referees and the league in such a scenario is to assess the play based on the play itself, not based on an injury that mar result from it.

Had I been doing this when it happened, I may have said more, but in a nutshell, that was my take at the time.

Enter Dwyane Wade

The danger in overreacting to one specific play, on the part of one specific player, is that sooner or later, another player is going to do something very similar. When that happens, those who remember the original play will expect consistency, and if it is not there, then questions arise about the motives of those who cried foul over the former incident, but no over the latter.

The Ariza foul re-enters the discussion at this point because of a Dwyane Wade foul, committed last night against the Hawks' Mo Evans, which can be seen in this YouTube video (it's the same video from higher up in this post, but I highly recommend going to YouTube and clicking the HQ button to watch it in high quality).

As you can probably guess, this play hasn't raised the kind of stink that the very similar Ariza play did. And that's why I'm here today.

Over at ESPN's TrueHoop blog, Henry Abbott was one of those leading the charge in crying foul over the Ariza play. Though there was much to be said about it, especially by Abbott's fellow Blazers fans, he addressed the issue with remarkable thoroughness and sensibility, even if I disagreed with his final conclusion and wondered why this was an issue only now, when similar plays occurred all the time.

As is to be expected, he's been getting emails wondering what his take is on the Wade foul, testing him, no doubt, to see if he will judge the two events with consistency. You can read his entire response in his Thursday Bullets, but here is the important excerpt:

So, getting to Wade ... yes he contacted a guy and messed with his ability to land. But this was somewhat mitigated by the fact that it was a wholly credible play on the ball! Ariza had no shot at the ball, and got Fernandez in the head and arms. But for the tiniest of miscalculations, Wade had both a block and a play where Evans and Wade land cleanly. In fact, it's possible that grabbing the rim is the main thing that messed with Evans' landing here -- very hard for me to tell from the video what kind of contact they had.

I was disappointed by this, for two reasons. First, the video is actually a high quality video, and it's quite clear what happened. And second, what Abbott described as happening in the Wade play wasn't the case at all. What follows are several points that I sent him in an email, which I've edited a bit to make a part of this post.

No Shot at the Ball?

As you read above, Henry states in no uncertain terms that Ariza was not making a play on the ball. In fact, he claims he had "no shot at the ball." To me, that's a bizarre claim, as the photo below (which I linked to at the top of this post) clearly shows that Ariza has his full hand on the ball.

Allball_medium

True, Rudy's hand is in between Ariza's hand and the ball — but then, many would say that this is a classic case of the hand being part of the ball. In any case, it's clear by the immediate proximity of Ariza's hand to the ball that he absolutely did have a play on the ball, and a very good one.

Furthermore, the up-close, slow-motion replay of Dwyane Wade's block attempt actually shows that he has less of a play on the ball than Ariza did. He never touched the ball, and this was the closest he got:

Picture_1_medium

At all times, Wade's hand was behind and/or below the ball; never did he get close enough to touch it. So you tell me, which one had a better "shot at the ball"?

Body Contact

One of the things that Abbott, and everyone else who cried foul, made a big stink about was the contact that Ariza's arm made with the back of Fernandez' head. Again, those who claimed Ariza was actually swinging for Rudy's head are simply so far off base that we're not even going to bother with them here.

The photo above clearly shows Ariza making a play on the ball. But it also shows his arm making incidental — but very real — contact with Rudy's head. That is obvious by the unnatural tilt of Rudy's head, and was pretty clear in the video replays.

What hasn't been pointed out yet, at least that I have seen, is that Wade made very similar contact with Evans' head. Replay the YouTube video above in HQ mode, and you'll see in the up-close, slow-mo replay that Wade's upper arm also makes incidental contact with Evans' head. The hit doesn't look to be as hard as it was in the Ariza foul, but the contact to the head is there, nonetheless.

On top of that, Wade makes contact with Evans on this play in ways that Ariza did not. Back it up to the zoomed out, real time footage of the play, and you'll see that Wade's entire body collides with Evans' body from behind. More on this later, but for now, suffice it to say that this contact happens before the block attempt.

Both players were attempting to make a play on the ball, and both made incidental contact with another player in the air which had the potential to be very harmful. So far, these plays seem remarkably similar.

Rough Landings

In both cases, the offensive players made what could be described as awkward landings, at best — at worst, dangerous ones with potential for injury. In Rudy's case, it seemed that Ariza's swipe at the ball (and his hands) caused him to rotate in mid-air, coming down on his hip and back in a twisted form.

In Evans' case, Abbott isn't sure what the cause of his fall was. He surmises that he may have fallen the way he did because he hung onto the rim — which would make his fall nobody's fault but his own. But watch the video again, paying particular attention to the slow-mo replay. Watch Evans' hands, and it's obvious that he never really gets ahold of the rim. You have to be able to grab hold of the rim before you can swing on it, and that didn't happen here. His fingers immediately let go of the rim, yet somehow his lower body swings dangerously out from underneath him, and he falls on his back. What caused it?

Remember that above, we noted that Wade collided with Evans from behind before the block. That means it was also before the dunk. That collision propels him forward in an unexpected and unnatural way, and meanwhile, Wade's body — which is lower than Evan's — continues to move through Evans'. The effect is that the moment Evans' hands even touch the rim and backboard, his lower body flies out from under him.

In fact, if you step the video forward frame-by-frame (you'll probably have to download it to do that, as I did), you'll see that it wasn't when his hands hit the rim that Evans' legs started to fly out from under him — it was when his hand hit the backboard. This caused his arm (and therefore his upper body) to stay put, while his legs continued to move forward.

This wasn't the result of Evans' grabbing the rim. It was simply the result of his hands being in the air — which is where they are supposed to be. This was clearly Wade's fault; his mid-air collision with Evans from behind is what propelled Evans past the backboard and caused him to flip over.

The End Result

The biggest difference between these two plays is simply the result at the end. Both Wade and Ariza caused the offensive player to fall in an awkward, unnatural, and dangerous manner. But Rudy Fernandez got hurt, and Mo Evans walked away. Is this why the Ariza foul drew so much attention? There are other reasons, but the fact that Ariza's resulted in injury was certainly a big part of it. "No harm, no foul" isn't just a pithy saying, it applies in real life — fans are simply more likely to forget about a foul if there are no long term negative consequences. If it looks dangerous, it may scare us, but if their player bounces up unharmed, we think little more of it.

The Same, But Different

In fact, these two plays are remarkably similar, with only minor differences. To summarize, here are the ways in which these two fouls were alike:

  • Both Ariza and Wade were making a play on the ball, and both fouled the offensive player instead
  • Both Ariza and Wade made body contact with the offensive player while airborne
  • Both Ariza and Wade hit the offensive player in the head with their upper arm
  • Both Ariza and Wade caused the offensive player to take a potentially dangerous fall

And now, the differences:

  • Wade's who body collided with Evans' in the air; Ariza struck Rudy with his arm, but their bodies did not collide
  • Wade didn't touch the ball; Ariza did
  • Evans didn't get hurt; Rudy did

Of these three key differences between the two plays, two of them go against Wade. Ariza didn't make full body contact in the air, and he had a much better shot at the ball (unlike Wade, he actually touched it). If mid-air contact and ability to make a play on the ball are key factors — which they were in Abbott's analysis of the Ariza play — then Wade's foul was actually worse in those ways.

On the other hand, Ariza's foul ended worse.

And let me say this before we go any further: It was truly unfortunate that Fernandez was injured. No one wants to see that, and any Laker fan who took pleasure in Fernandez' injury should be included in the group of outright fools that I mentioned earlier in this post.

But with that said, it is imperative that a play be judged on the nature of the play itself, and not on the result. And the nature of both of these plays was the same. Both players were attempting to make a play on the ball, in a potentially dangerous situation, made contact with the player in mid-air, and caused them to take a dangerous fall. One resulted in injury, and the other did not, but the plays were nearly identical in nature. Judging one more harshly because it resulted in injury makes zero sense.

So What Gives?

If you're like me, you're wondering why so many people across the internet got so angry about the Ariza play, but not about the Wade play. Certainly, one possibility is that they see the two plays in the same way that Henry did — as being on two very different levels. And that's fair. But if you accept the above analysis of these two plays, that doesn't work for you, so the question becomes even more pertinent. I'm sure a few reasons for the differing reactions come to mind.

Let's make this clear: If you're thinking that Henry Abbott is a Laker hater, or that he was just overreacting because it was a Blazer that got injured, you're flat out wrong. I've talked to the guy, and I can tell you with certainty that that is not the case.

Is it possible that there are others out there who are reacting that way because the rest of the league loves to villify the Lakers? Certainly, and I'm sure that is true for many out there. Are there probably a lot of Blazer fans that overreacted to the Ariza play because they are Blazer fans? Yes, I'm sure that's the case, just like I'm sure there are Hawks fans out there taking a bigger interest in the Wade foul than they did in the Ariza foul.

But aside from that, the only other reason I can think of to explain the widespread reaction to one play, and the relative lack of any reaction to the other, is that many people are focusing more on the result than on the play itself.

For many of them, their reasoning would seem to belie that, as they tend to point primarily to the reckless, dangerous nature of the Ariza foul — that is, they are discussing the nature of the foul, not the result. Nonetheless, there seems to be some sort of disconnect here, between the response and the reasoning, because the same factors (reckless, dangerous) were at play in Wade's foul, with the only significant thing that made Ariza's worse being that it ended in injury.

What To Do?

When this blog was but three days old, a bunch of Blazers fans from Blazers Edge made their way over here and joined us in the comments of one post, where the topic of Ariza's foul on Rudy came up. I particularly enjoyed what one Portland fan, MiledAnimal, had to say:

The problem I had with the foul is that Ariza swung his arm to generate momentum at the ball ... The shortest path between two points is a straight line. All he had to do was extend his arm directly toward the ball and get any part of his hand over the ball…

It’s also not a stretch to think he and his teammates were frustrated at that point and that he felt like putting a little mustard on that block. Doing so in that situation constitutes reckless endangerment. The NFL has rules to protect the kicker and quarterback in certain situations. The NBA should do something like that for players on breakaway plays.

He makes some great points, but here was my response:

Perhaps. But until they do, the fact is that it was a normal, well-intended, run-of-the-mill block attempt, which ended in a very unfortunate landing for Rudy. It wasn’t malicious, it wasn’t intended to cause harm. Was it perhaps intended to be a bit more emphatic than usual? Yeah, maybe. But then, guys like LeBron James and Dwight Howard go for emphatic blocks all the time, when a simple hand straight in the air would probably do. It’s a normal part of the game. All of that is normal stuff. The landing was all that changed.

If the NBA adds some sort of rule, then we’ll expect it to be followed, and I’ll be the first one saying [about the Lakers], “Hey, they made the rule, you gotta play smart.” But until they do, that was just a normal play that ended bad.

It's unfortunate that Rudy Fernandez was hurt on that play. But while the player that got hurt, his teammates, and his fans may consider that "reckless endangerment," the fact remains that the chase-down block from behind, which may involve some incidental contact, is currently an acceptable play in the NBA. What do you expect from players, who are taught by experience that that type of play is normal and acceptable? Should they not do everything they can, within the bounds of what is currently considered acceptable play, to play hard and make whatever play they can?

If the NBA wants to add a rule to "protect the kicker," so to speak, by clamping down on in-flight contact on come-from-behind blocks, then I'll be here applauding them for resolving this issue in the future. But in the meantime, it's important that we be even-handed in our judgment of various plays. The blogosphere "tore Ariza a new one" for his foul on Fernandez; they should be crying foul today, as well.

And that means taking issue with every come-from-behind block in which the defending player creates mid-air contact — even if the offensive player doesn't even fall down.

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Comments

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Uh oh

Prepare for a full-out assault by whiny-ass Blazer fans over daring to call into question the severity of Rudy’s bruise (after all, he did need a stretcher and an overnight stay in the hospital for having the wind knocked out of him and some bruising). I’ve already been trolling them over on TrueHoop today :)

by WildYams on Apr 30, 2009 1:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I saw

I have to give you major props for trying to debate with them Yams, even if it’s hard (or nearly impossible) to get them to see things objectively when the case involves a Laker and a Blazer.

by hertagnism on Apr 30, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my take (Blazer fan)

Both are flagrant fouls and in the gray area between flagrant 1 and flagrant 2. Neither merits a suspension. One thing that maybe should matter (and maybe shouldn’t) is that Ariza’s foul came after the regular season game had been decided while Wade’s was early in a then-close playoff game. I think that the fact that the Lakers had no chance to come back against Portland, coupled with the fact that it was the regular season, led the refs to make in a flagrant 2. Ariza was (correctly) not suspended. Given that Wade’s foul was early in a competitive playoff game, I think flagrant 1 was a reasonable decision.

I think you did a solid job on the breakdown there.

by jksnake99 on Apr 30, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've never understood

Why Blazer fans have clung to this aspect of it so vehemently. Do you really expect the Lakers to have effectively quit in the 3rd quarter? After all, Nate McMillan hadn’t emptied his bench by that point, in spite of the big lead, so why should the Lakers have mailed it in? As a fan I like seeing players continue to compete even if the outcome is probably not in question anymore. By the same logic you’re using, was it a case of taunting and/or trying to show up the Lakers for Rudy to attempt such an emphatic dunk in such a blowout? I mean, Josh Smith is getting a lot of flack today for his between the legs attempt last night with his team up 20 in the closing minutes, so maybe Rudy was being a classless jerk for trying to pile on?

I don’t think Rudy was being classless by continuing to play hard any more than I think Ariza was being unnecessarily reckless for doing the same thing. You never wanna see the players quit if they’re out there on the floor. I doubt either coach would tell his players to stop trying if they’re up big or down big. After all, the Lakers did come back from 27 points down in the 4th quarter to win against Dallas back in December of 2002, so you never know what can happen.

by WildYams on Apr 30, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm conflicted on this issue

Perhaps you are right that the game situation shouldn’t matter. I think the case that both should have been flagrant 1 fouls is a very reasonable one. I think its clear that there was no intent to harm in either case. I think its also clear both were reckless.

I think the game situation did influence the NBA’s decision, whether that should matter is a tougher question.

Incidentally, I felt Rondo’s foul on Miller the other day ought to have been a flagrant 1 also.

by jksnake99 on Apr 30, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right on

Your assessment of all three fouls is spot on. I don’t think any should have been suspensions.

Most importantly, your assessment is consistent. Want to suspend Ariza? Doesn’t bother me — so long as every other player who commits the same foul also gets suspended. Want to just give him a Flagrant 1 slap on the wrist? Great, then every other player who commits a similar foul should also only get a Flagrant 1.

16...15...14...13...12...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on Apr 30, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Game situations shouldn't matter...

…unless its in the closing seconds of a very close game in which the referees interpretation (which is frequently wrong) determines the outcome.

Citing the fact that the Lakers were getting blown out is just evidence that you really don’t have a legitimate claim. It wasn’t even the fourth quarter. We were down by what 20 or 22 late in the third. Given the fact that the Clippers came back on us down by 18 with 5:00 left in the fourth I’m not buying the whole “the game was over” deal.

I’ll go as far as to say this: Wade had much worse intentions when he was going up for that block than Ariza did. Ariza had a pretty legitimate shot at getting to the ball, while if you watch the Wade play its clear that he along with everyone else knew that there was no way Wade was gonna stop that play unless there was some EXCESSIVE contact (which, there was). What happened to Rudy was unfortunate, but not excessive contact in my opinion. High flyers like him (and Ariza) put themselves at risk every game because they go to the rim hard.

Also, consider this: Wade’s play happened at a point in the game where he had been getting beat up and frustrated throughout the game. It was OBVIOUS that he wanted some revenge and in my opinion, that’s cool and part of a physical game. Ariza, however, had no malicious incentives like this during his play.

In conclusion, despite all your kind words Josh I can’t help but think Abbott is a retard. Good writeup on your part please follow up with his response. If you’re going to argue that Ariza’s foul was flagrant, I don’t see how you CAN’T argue that Wade’s was as well.

by Justin N. on Apr 30, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I think Blazer fans just let their emotions and bias about the matter get the better of them on this issue and they’ve been unwilling to back off their stance that Ariza somehow was over the line with recklessness. Sometimes there are collisions in midair that result in bad falls, but that doesn’t mean they were automatically reckless or malicious. My guess is if this play had not involved a Laker, Portland fans wouldn’t have been nearly so upset about it.

Hopefully Portland’s season will end tonight and all this stuff will be a distant memory.

by WildYams on Apr 30, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Justin

The thing is, there won’t be much response because this issue has been beaten down for who knows how long. The only reason it came up was because of the recent hard fouls in the playoffs. Look at Abbott’s explanation for the Rondo foul. Rondo’s clenched fist across the head of Brad Miller but it didn’t deserve a flagrant because he had no chance of spinal injuries, etc. That right there implies that Abbott has been judging by result of the foul, and not intent. So there are many contradictions with their claims but when it comes to Lakers vs Blazers, all of those contradictions don’t matter to them.

by hertagnism on Apr 30, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you have a very solid argument that game situation shouldn't matter

To me, that’s the only substantive difference in the two plays: like I said before, I don’t think there was intent to harm in either case but I think there was recklessness.

If its decided that game situation is irrelevant, then both plays should have been a flagrant 1.

Just to get the facts right (and again, I have no problem with your argument that this shouldn’t matter), Ariza’s foul was committed with Portland leading by 28 points and with 2 seconds remaining in the 3rd quarter.

by jksnake99 on Apr 30, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's legitimate.

If one’s flagrant, the other one is for certain. Reviewing the plays I’d say in the end I’d call them the same. It’s interesting though: Wade’s foul had much more contact and much less ball, yet in the end doesn’t seem nearly as bad as Ariza because no one had to be carried out by stretcher. Josh’s original point about the end result defining the foul was spot on.

by Justin N. on Apr 30, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I too was suprised by Abbott's comparison

I guess I shouldn’t have been.

Even though this has been talked about to death, this was a nice in-depth write up.

By the way Josh, you’ll want to change the section “not shot at the ball” to “no shot at the ball”, as well as in the sentence below the section header.

by Gils_Keloids on Apr 30, 2009 1:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, done

16...15...14...13...12...
Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on Apr 30, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is from Forum Blue and Gold's latest post:

Although it’s about the Rondo-Miller foul, it applies just as much here:

I think the guys at The Painted Area hit the nail on the head:

The ridiculousness of the flagrant-foul interpretation is that, in practice, it is determined almost entirely by whether the fouled player hits the floor in an awkward, scary-looking manner, and Miller ultimately did not hit the floor that hard. Many times, you’ll see a guy go for a legitimate blocked shot on a breakaway, and get called for a ridiculous flagrant ONLY b/c of the way the fouled player falls.

by Gils_Keloids on Apr 30, 2009 1:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

It shouldn’t matter if a guy falls awkwardly and comes up bleeding or has to be carried off on a stretcher or something, you need to look at what the person who committed the foul actually did. That Wade play last night was a perfect example, because Mo Evans basically fell awkwardly because he tried to hang onto the rim and couldn’t, so he flipped weirdly and it ended up looking real bad; but that wasn’t because Wade creamed him or something.

You see this all the time, and the Ariza-Rudy thing was just another example. The guy didn’t get up so it apparently had to follow that Ariza should be ejected, even though he basically just tried to swat at the ball and missed. I remember last year in the playoffs against Utah, Ronny Turiaf got ejected for a foul on Ronnie Price which to me just looked like a fairly run of the mill shooting foul, except that Price landed awkwardly and cut his lip in the process.

I’d be curious to see what the ratio of flagrant fouls called on road teams versus home teams is, and also how common it is for flagrant fouls to be called flagrant ones at home versus flagrant twos on the road, because I suspect that the way the crowd reacts to these hard fouls factors in a lot to how the refs react.

by WildYams on Apr 30, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Henry Abbott is amazing

During the whole Ariza/Rudy foul controversy, it was constantly pointed out to Henry (with both video and still photo evidence) that Trevor had blocked the shot first before his followthrough hit Rudy’s left arm, causing Rudy to spin in the air and fall awkwardly. And the guy STILL insists that Ariza not only didn’t hit the ball, but never even had a chance at the ball. Well, I guess that’s all that’s left for Blazer fans to do is complain about Trevor’s “dirty” play now that they got blown out by Houston again.

by The Dude Abides on Apr 30, 2009 9:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff,

Lovin’ the blog.
Lovin’ the Laker Lovin’.
First post!

by SoCalBuff12 on May 1, 2009 1:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Spot on, great write up. Keep up the good work!

by Towelie on May 1, 2009 3:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Rudy Fernandez: 185 lbs (skin and bone)
Maurice Evans: 220 lbs (muscle)

by k3vin on May 5, 2009 10:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Blazer fan here.

For sure the way a player falls can determine if its called a flagrant or not ( whether its right or not, it is what it is ). The way Rudy fell was scary, which I’m sure factored in the decision to give a flagrant 1. It definitely did not deserve a flagrant 1 and subsequent suspension, but appeared reckless enough to warrant to flagrant call. I don’t think either the Ariza foul or the Wade foul appeared as if they were trying to hurt the other player though. What pissed a lot of blazer fans off was how pissed off Ariza was after he got called for the foul and didn’t appear concerned at all about the guy he just injured.

by dario argento on May 5, 2009 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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