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Is It Cheating Not To Try?

Typically, the general goal in the NBA is to win as much as possible. In general, a higher seed means better odds in the Playoffs.

But not always.

So is it wrong not to try? Or are there times when a chance at better overall success makes it okay to lose today?

Star-divide

In a recent post at Detroit Bad Boys, a Pistons fan suggested that the Magic wanted not part of the #2 seed and (at the time) a potential matchup with the Pistons — and that they'd use any excuse necessary to stay behind Boston in the standings and avoid Detroit in the playoffs.

While I won't be accusing any team in this league of deliberately trying to lose, it raises an interesting question: As part of an overall strategy intended to foster greater overall success, is it cheating to essentially let the other team win?

Allow me to present a more relative scenario to this audience. Currently, the Jazz occupy the eighth seed in the Western Conference. But they are only one game behind the Mavericks. With a Dallas win tonight, Utah's odds of regaining the seventh seed have decreased. Nonetheless, if the Jazz were to win their last game, and the Mavericks were to lose theirs, the Jazz (who own the tiebreaker due to a better conference record) would regain the seventh seed.

While this would require a very specific series of events — only the combination of a Utah victory and a Dallas loss would propel the Jazz into the seventh seed — it's certainly very possible. The Mavs' final regular season opponent is the very capable Houston Rockets.

Here's where this gets interesting: It just so happens that Utah's final game is in Los Angeles. (No, not against the Clippers.)

As bob banshee mentioned earlier today:

It’s fair to say many of us would have preferred avoiding the Jazz in the first round, even with their current slump. The Mavs, Blazers, Hornets would be a sweep….I see this series going 6 or 7.

Regarding a series against the Jazz, AzFatty elaborates:

Although the bruises won’t show up on many of these players, trust me, they are there.

We'll talk more about preferred playoff paths in the near future, but I think it's safe to say that as far as playoff opponents go, most of us Lakers fans would agree with bob and AzFatty in preferring the Mavericks to the Jazz. Though there's no real doubt in our minds that the Lakers would emerge with a win in either series (sorry, Jazz and Mavs fans!); it's Utah's physicality that bothers us. We're fairly confident that we'll get to the Finals — and we'd like to be the more rested, less banged up team when we get there.

Meanwhile, the Cavaliers have now locked up the best record in the league, and since the Lakers #1 seed in the West isn't in question, the motivation to continue playing hard is much less now than it was a few days ago.

So, considering that Houston has a good chance of beating Dallas on Wednesday... wouldn't it make sense for the Lakers to "rest their star players" on Tuesday, most likely resulting in a Jazz win? In that scenario, if the Rockets do beat the Mavericks, the Lakers will face a significantly easier first round opponent — on the body, if not on the scoreboard.

I put it to you again: Is it wrong not to try, in situations where a win is really not in the team's best interest, overall?

The immediate answer would seem to be, Yes, it absolutely is wrong! But I'm not convinced.

If I may be so bold as to compare the NBA season to a war, and each game to a battle, then doesn't that blur the moral lines a bit? After all, the goal is to win the war.  If that means implementing a battle plan that results in facing a weaker opponent, that's called good strategy. (See: Lose the battle, win the war.)

I know that this is probably considered border-line "tanking," and currently, that's considered unethical. But then, there was a time in war when fighting from cover was unethical. There was a time when officers were off limits. Now, it is considered perfectly valid to fight from cover and take out any officers. In fact, it's considered stupid not to. Protect your generals and colonels, because if I see them, they're fair game! (For that matter, we've got smart bombs now, so even if I don't see them, they might still be fair game!)

Of course, another point to consider is how that specific game affects the fans. You all know this argument well. Fans pay good money to see the game, and they pay to see Kobe, not DJ Mbenga. Thus, intentionally benching the stars seems unfair to those fans who paid to see the game.

Even then, I'm not convinced. Sure, the fan experience may be less than ideal for that single game — but the strategic move, by providing an easier and less physically draining road to the Finals, could increase the Lakers' overall championship odds. And you can't tell me that a championship isn't in the interest of the fans.

So I ask you: Would it be wrong for the Lakers to bench their starters and let the Jazz win? Is it wrong for the Magic to be perfectly satisfied with the third seed, and not try very hard to catch the Celtics for the second seed?

You tell me.

UPDATE: It seems my poll would have been better with a fourth option: No — it's not wrong, but I still want the Lakers to try for the win.

A bit to my surprise, most of the commenters seem to be okay with the idea of letting a game go if it is truly in the best interest of the team. In fact, it seems to me that many of the "No" voters had no ethical objection to losing a game if it is in the team's best interest, strategically; instead, most of them felt for other reasons — such as reintegrating Bynum, improving team chemistry with lineup changes, gaining a psychological advantage over Utah, and keeping the starters in rhythm — that the best option, strategically, was still to beat Utah, even though it means facing them in the first round.

Be sure to check out some of the great discussion below.

Poll
Should the Lakers bench their starters and give the Jazz the win tomorrow?
No — they have to try and win, it's wrong not to
135 votes
Yes — it's ethically questionable/wrong, but they should do it anyways
36 votes
Yes — the game doesn't matter; the end result of winning a championship is better for everyone
92 votes

263 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 35 comments  |  Add comment |

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Comments

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The Mavs, Blazers, Hornets would be a sweep….I see this series going 6 or 7.

I disagree. A Blazer series would not be a sweep.

There’s nothing wrong with tanking a game. Losing teams do it to get a better draft pick… nothing different about a good team giving away a game for the good of the team.

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Apr 13, 2009 9:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Lakers won, which put some kind of weird psychological thing on the Jazz

Basically, the Jazz are thinking, “damn we cannot escape this fate. Even when we were the #5 seed the Basketball gods must have forced us to lose 7 of 9, and now the Lakers owned us”. The Lakers beating the Jazz and playing really hard as well is the equivalent of saying, “yo, you cannot escape your fate, we control your fate. We will pillage and rape you and there’s nothing you can do about it. You want to escape? You try to escape by beating us so you don’t have to beat us four times? No. There is no escape. Come meet your destiny”.

Now the Jazz are going to react in one of two ways. The weak-minded Jazz players, like Andrei Kirilenko (who often cries, I’m told), are going to wilt and lose it. They’re really going to believe that the Jazz are destined to lose, and I see them giving up. The strong-minded players, such as Boozer and Deron Williams, are going to be like “F*** this Sh**”, nobody tells us what we can or cannot do, and we’re going to show these lakers who think they’re in control of us who’s boss. They’re going to play hard and if they lose, at least they won’t go down without a fight.

What does all this mean? For a very virulent and aggressive series. D-Will is going to be like “you want us, come get us”, where as Kobe is going to be like “come here, little boy Williams, come let me dominate you”, the trash talking will start, and eventually elbowing and clotheslining will erupt and both teams will come out of it pretty beat up, with the Lakers probably on top.

Fun stuff, gentlemen.

by laker on Apr 17, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should try to win but not at the expense of playing the starters too many minutes. They should start the regulars just like always but keep them at 30 min. The important things are to try and get Fisher back into a rhythym, continue to improve upon Bynum’s conditioning and get the bench up and running once again. Beating the Jazz in the first round is more important then beating them tomorrow.

by LAKERJK on Apr 13, 2009 9:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Try but not too hard

It’s a good option, though I’d lower the bar a bit more. 24 minutes or less for all starters except Ariza (doesn’t need it) and Bynum (needs the reps).

Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on Apr 13, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds about right Silver.

by LAKERJK on Apr 13, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish there was another option..

I voted no, but it isn’t because I see it is unethical to “purposely” loose a game or few, specifically for us the upcoming Jazz game. I agree with the argument that it is part of strategy and that overall fans enjoyment levels will be increased. I just think that in this case I would prefer to win the game. While the Jazz do play a much more physical game, I think that as they are right now they scare me less than the Mavs. Not that Mavs would win or even come close really, but they scare me more to get hot and win a game or two. The Jazz right now seem extremely fragile mentally, on the point of collapse if not past it. The team just doesn’t seem to believe in itself anymore, especially on the road. Ultimately, the games may be a little more bruising, but if there are fewer of them (and I forsee a Utah sweep as completely possible, Jerry Sloan coaching and all) it could well be a net gain. I may well be all alone in this belief though.

by klofslofski on Apr 13, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting and very valid points

Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on Apr 13, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also.......

The Jazz aren’t nearly as tough of a matchup when we have a healthy Bynum.

by pslakerfan on Apr 13, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True but..

Neither Bynum nor Gasol will be able to check Okur if he’s on beyond the 3 pt line. And remember what Sacramento did to us earlier in the season when Bynum was still in the lineup. I believe they handed us the 2nd loss of the season.

by hertagnism on Apr 13, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True but..

I agree, but personally I would put Odom on Okur. Kinda like we do with Dirk. Both 7 footers that can shoot outside. Pretty much makes Okur useless and leaves Pau/Bynum inside to clean up the glass and clog the lane. I’m not a coach, but it seems valid to me. Obviously that means Odom plays more minutes, but then Pau/Bynum save energy for 2nd round and beyond. Like I said just an idea, it seems to work against Dirk.

by pslakerfan on Apr 13, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see it

Phil would definitely put Odom on Okur/Dirk and other forwards in that mold. I disagree with Odom cutting into Pau/Bynum’s minutes, though, based on how Odom’s been shooting his jumper the past few weeks. It’s come to a point where I don’t cringe when he goes for the jump shot rather than driving it to the hole so I’m really interested to see a Bynum/Pau/Odom frontcourt with extended minutes where Odom and Pau matching up with the Euro-forward shooters on the perimeter and leaving Bynum down low to deal with Boozer, which will certainly go in our favor.

The playoffs can’t come soon enough.

by hertagnism on Apr 14, 2009 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I am surprised that he (PJ) hasn’t tried the Pau/Bynum/Odom triumvirate just to see what happens. Too late now to start experimenting, but you would think he would have at least tried it a few times.

by pslakerfan on Apr 14, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well...

the knock earlier in the season was that they didn’t want to put Odom in because it would destroy the triangle’s spacing seeing as Odom wasn’t hitting the jumper consistently. But now that he has been hitting it at a solid rate, I wouldn’t put it past PJ to hide this lineup and hold it as a trump card of some sort.

by hertagnism on Apr 14, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blazers would be a sweep?

please. Portland would take the series to at least 6, possibly 7 before falling.

Agreed- no apologies needed if the Lakers decide to tank if LA prefers Dallas. Also, are you sure you don’t want to play Utah? They just let CJ Watson drop 38 points on them in a GSW win in SLC.

by jksnake99 on Apr 13, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

D-League style

Additionally, I know this has been bandied about on the internets a bit, but there is always the potential future solution of adopting the D-League’s new playoff format of the top seeds choosing their first round opponents. (Stern must be looking at this at least somewhat right?) While everyone might not be crazy about it, it would certainly help prevent teams from feeling the need to tank a game or two to drop a seed.

On a side note, the Magic dropping simply to not play the Pistons seems a little extreme, especially at the price of having home court in the second round.

by klofslofski on Apr 13, 2009 9:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Come on

give the Jazz your hardest!
The Jazz will counter… though ‘hardest’ implies a lot of missed shots, and too many minutes for guys like Jarron Collins & Matt Harpring & Brevin Knight.

(Though, with the mental make-up of the Jazz right now, a semi-big, or just impressive, win by the Lakers tomorrow night could do the Jazz in for the playoffs.)

True Blue Jazz
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on Apr 13, 2009 9:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Addressing the subject...

I think it’s wrong to tank games in the sense that people, especially in Los Angeles, pay a pretty hefty premium on tickets because they want to see the best of the best compete at the highest level.

That being said, I think coaching and playing to win championships has merit. Its why the Spurs are being talked about as contenders despite the fact that they are pretty pathetic on paper. With this in mind, tanking games for the sake of resting starters to compete at a higher level down the road is okay in my book. Tanking games for the sake of trying to get a better % in the lottery, however, is something totally different.

The Lakers should not, in this light, tank this game. Although what we have now is a mentally tough team that posted the best road record in the NBA on the season, we do not have an incredibly mature and composed team. It is obvious that stuff gets to these guys heads (last year’s finals). A win over the Jazz going into a playoff series would definitely do this team more good than a loss would. Who cares if its three games in a row at Staples? This team must believe that they can beat anyone in the playoffs in a 7 game series and a team like the Jazz shouldn’t take more than 5. I think that, with the way that the Lakers went into Boston and Cleveland and won emphatically this year, they do believe that right now.

by Justin N. on Apr 13, 2009 10:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The bigger problem

The thing I feel is most important is Andrew Bynum’s reintegration, like LakersJK mentioned. Against a playoff team that loves to bruise, this last game presents a great opportunity for the starters to continue to work Andrew in and get refamiliar with them.

I also understand that the center position of the triangle offense isn’t as complicated as the wings, but look at it from the defensive end. Sure, Andrew’s posted some solid numbers but did he stand out defensively? I still think his timing is a bit off and let’s remember that Utah has the prototype of the teams that gives Lakers problems: Bigs that can stretch the floor and the #1a point guard of the league.

Play the game with the mentality that this carries over into the playoffs because it’s looking like Utah will be our first round opponent. Start planting the seeds of doubt in their minds. Psychology is an important aspect of the game come playoff time.

by hertagnism on Apr 13, 2009 10:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

All good points hertagnism!

by LAKERJK on Apr 13, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson said he will not sit regulars Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol or Derek Fisher in the regular-season finale against any team, according to the Los Angeles Times.

If the Cleveland Cavaliers win Monday night, they clinch the overall best record in the NBA, leaving the Lakers with what appears to be a meaningless home game against the Utah Jazz. But the first-round playoff opponent for the Lakers could be the Jazz.

“I don’t think of sitting players,” Jackson said Sunday. “I don’t think that’s the right thing to do when people buy season tickets and special-game tickets and things like that, and the league has asked us not to do that. I have players that are going to play their 82nd game this week, hopefully, and that’s a big milestone in this game, to have played them all.”

Bryant, Fisher and Trevor Ariza will have played all 82 regular-season games if they play Tuesday.

Ok this is better, the link above isn’t working.

by LAKERJK on Apr 13, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

While I don't think they will.......

I can’t argue with your points. All very valid. The goal is to win the chip, not to win every regular season game. I also think Justin N. makes a great point about tanking for a lottery pick vs. tanking for playoff seeding. All great points. I think there is a middle ground which is playing the starters but with less minutes and seeing what happens. Not tanking doesn’t mean you have to play like it’s a game 7. JMO.

by pslakerfan on Apr 13, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget Shannon Brown

I almost forgot, Shannon Brown could also get more experience by getting more PT this game. After surfing the other Lakers blogs, I have to agree that he will be seeing more PT against Deron Williams. I don’t think that Jordan Farmar will be seeing much PT too now that we’ve seen what Shannon Brown can do.

Plus, remember Deron Williams just made Farmar look silly last year in the postseason. It would be a good game to let Shannon Brown get used to defending Deron Williams. The way I see it, we have two already great perimeter defenders in Kobe and Ariza. Shannon Brown has the potential to join them and really make our defense stifling.

by hertagnism on Apr 13, 2009 11:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Love Shannon Brown...

Personally I think if he can D up on D Will anything he brings on offense is gravy. We have enough offensive weapons that without D Will being too effective I don’t think Utah can keep up.

by pslakerfan on Apr 13, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brown vs. Farmar

If Brown keeps playing even close to what he’s been doing lately, I don’t see the balance of minutes between him and Farmar ever going back in Jordan’s favor, especially with Jackson as coach. Brown is pretty much the prototype Jackson point guard, a little bigger and stronger than usual, and a good defender. Ball handling and running the offense as a point guard are almost irrelevant to Jackson, even shooting isn’t that important (see Ron Harper). If he does well with learning the triangle in the off season, he might get a chance to cement himself as the heir to Fisher that we all expected Jordan to be.

If that happens, think about the Lakers potential starting lineup. Bryant, Brown, Ariza, that has to be one of the strongest perimeter defensive teams in the league, individually. Add in a healthy and up to speed Bynum and the Lakers could have a real defensive force if the put their minds to it, regardless of who’s manning the 4 spot.

by C.A. Clark on Apr 14, 2009 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shannon Brown is "UPS"

Because he’s got hops and Brown delivers.

by Gils_Keloids on Apr 14, 2009 12:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Probably the best non-Machine nickname for a Laker. I approve.

by Worthy J. on Apr 14, 2009 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

No it’s not cheating and no we shouldn’t tank it. You guys have all said why we shouldn’t and I agree but I’ll add that it’s a great chance to try out some of the strategies that the coaching staff might be brainstorming in a no pressure environment in which the Jazz will be trying their best for a victory. Perfect testing ground against a team that could be our opponent in the playoffs no matter what we do if Dallas just wins out.

by Worthy J. on Apr 14, 2009 1:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just not a good idea

I agree with many that the starters should play, and that it has nothing to do with the ethics of the game. Rhythm and timing are as important in basketball as any sport in the world, and I just don’t think its a good idea to have the guys take a week off going into the playoffs. As it is, Tuesday to (probably) Sunday is more time in between games than they are used to, and then the funky first round format will have them only play once midweek before another weekend game. I’m not saying the starters should be playing 40, but let them get their reps as usual. Besides, its not as if the current rotation, with Bynum back and Shannon Brown seeing significant PT, is all comfortable and familiar with each other. This ain’t the Spurs and their core of players who have been together for a decade. Phil should play the game like any other, except that he shouldn’t (and won’t) worry about putting starters in for heavy burn just to win the game.

by C.A. Clark on Apr 14, 2009 2:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i say go for the win

we will most likely meet the jazz in the 1st round and we don’t want them to think that they can come to staples and win

by Adamas on Apr 14, 2009 10:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not good

I don’t really care about the Lakers, but Matt told me to come here. And about this one I care, meaningless whom it concerns.

My point always was that this one day of rest messes up the rhythm. Benching starters the last game takes them out of the game and – look at last year’s Celts – they have problems playing the first round. Boston benched all starters last year. We know how long it took to put down Atlanta … It’s the same everywhere and all over again. Same discussion every year.

by Headless Chicken on Apr 14, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ummm.. Or the 4th option

Beat the bejesus out of them, get in their heads, and make that first round match-up all the easier. While I am not a Laker fan, doesn’t this just make the most sense? Dictate how the series will go right now, clearly pick them, saying you know who we want to face in the first round, its you! Mwahahaha.

Make them dread having to face the Lakers. I mean (and it pains me to say it but) you guys are the freaking best team in the West, why let the 8th seeded team dictate your actions? Get in there, crush them, leave them with spalding tattooed across their forehead, and then crush them again this weekend. That’s what I would want my Blazers to do.

From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.

From the back of Greg Oden's Franz card: Nickname: Jaws. Has an insatiable desire to tear rims apart while cruising the open court, and was once interested in using head-gear for his profession.

by TheOdenator on Apr 14, 2009 1:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It was an interesting topic of discussion

And I was intrigued by how people felt about it. In the end, the consensus seems to be essentially what you said — the Jazz are weak, and if we stomp them tonight, they’ll be the easiest opponent in the group once the Playoffs start.

I’m still fascinated to see that the fans — which is who all the sports writers and bloggers say they’re looking out for when they insist that every game must be played to win — don’t have a problem with losing a game IF it truly does benefit the team (and thus, the fans) in the larger picture.

Strength & Honor

by Josh Tucker on Apr 14, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should rest everyone, so that they get a better chance at playing an easier team. Simple as that.

by Linix129 on Apr 14, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs


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