Some Thoughts on Kobe & Shaq
by Josh Tucker on Dec 9, 2009 10:01 AM PST
in Editorial
48 comments
A few days ago, as you all remember quite well, Kobe Bryant hit this ridiculous game-winning bank shot over Dwyane Wade to beat Miami and keep the Lakers' winning streak (now at 9 games) alive. It was incredible, and yet, because it was Kobe, completely unsurprising. I was out of my mind, and yet, because it was Kobe, I should almost have expected it. It was an amazing shot, and yet, because it was Kobe, not a shocking one.
For me, as for many Lakers fans, the experience went beyond that single shot. In the day or so that followed, I found myself mentally reliving many of Kobe's previous buzzer beaters. Two of my favorites, of course, are the double-whammies versus Portland and Phoenix — in both of which, Kobe first ties the game at the buzzer to send it to overtime, and then, at the end of overtime, hits another shot at the buzzer to win it. (Side note: I wonder how many other players have hit two buzzer beaters in the same game, on more than one occasion? Anyone know?)
Suddenly, something occurred to me. My wife, who often watches Lakers games with me (lucky man that I am), had probably never seen either of those shots (or rather, pairs of shots). We got married in late 2006, and it was only after that that she started watching with me. So, of course, I called up YouTube and played them for her.
That's when I noticed something — something different about Shaq and Kobe...
Back in May of this almost-over calendar year, the NBA was busy applying fancy editing to some of the more dramatic moments in NBA playoff history, and the results were awesome. You had Dr. J's reverse layup, Larry Legend's inbounds steal, Magic Johnson's baby skyhook, and of course, Kobe's clutch alley-oop pass to Shaq.
When the Kobe-to-Shaq commercial ran, Jason Kottke noticed something about the play:
Bryant creates 95% of the offense here by crossing Pippen over and throwing a perfect lob to O'Neal. O'Neal throws it down and the camera follows him as he heads down the court yelling in celebration, totally blowing right past Kobe, who has his hand out to high-five Shaq. Kobe half-heartedly grabs at O'Neal's forearm as he passes; Shaq doesn't even notice.
Henry Abbott picked up on Jason's observation and ran it on TrueHoop, referring to it as "Where Amazingly Sad Happens."
Watch the video at the top of this post, and you'll see what they were referring to. Here's the unedited version, which further reinforces Kottke's point, making it even more clear that Kobe, not Shaq, is responsible for this play; Shaq was open for the lob because Kobe drew four defenders (Derek Fisher was keeping the fifth one honest).
Kobe created that play for Shaq. Kobe deserves most of the credit; all Shaq did was cash in on an incredible move and a gorgeous pass by Bryant. In fact, it's worth pointing out that in this situation, Kobe did what Magic didn't — pass the ball to his open big man. In light of Kobe's reputation as a supposed ball-hog (7 assists in the triangle offense, anyone?), even that is worth something — especially since Kobe had enough space to take the shot himself, and a free-throw jumper is almost automatic for him. But he made that pass, found his open big man, and created the biggest play of the game.
But what's Shaq's response, when the momentous play is completed? It's certainly not to show any appreciation to his very deserving teammate. Instead, he turns and points to the home crowd as he runs down the court.
It's as if to say, "I've done it! I've all but won us the game — give me the glory!" He's too busy exalting in his greatness and soaking in the adoration of the fans to even notice Kobe, let alone thank him. The star of the game, as Kottke also points out, was Kobe, who had 25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists, and 4 blocks in the amazing comeback, as compared to Shaq's 18/9/5/1. The credit for the pivotal play belonged to Kobe. But there's Shaq, taking all the credit.
Watch the unedited video again. As Kottke points out (the dude was full of insights), it shows Shaq finally finding Kobe for a high-five, long after the play is over and he's sought out and received his props from the fans and his teammates. Kottke points out that "it's a brief moment; they slap hands and go their separate ways, foreshadowing Shaq's departure four years later." To me, it looks like more of the same from Shaq — his body language says, "High five me for that awesome play I just made." (To his credit, Kobe does just that.) Not that there's anything wrong with that, when it's deserved; players do that all the time, when they've just done something awesome. It's just that, in this case, it should have been a high five, or even a hug, that said, "I'm high fiving you for that play you just made."
Kinda like this:
Having been blown away by Kobe's game-winner over Miami, and having gone back to relive this previous clutch Kobe moments with my wife, I noticed something that reminded me of Jason Kottke's and Henry Abbott's observations regarding the Kobe-Shaq alley-oop.
Kobe deserved more credit for his game-tying floater than Shaq did for his alley-oop dunk. Unlike Shaq, Kobe created his own shot, and it was much more difficult. The presence of mind to know how much time was on the clock, and to know what kind of shot he could get in that time, was incredible. That left fake before he goes to the right around Raja Bell is simply brilliant. The twisting floater over Diaw to avoid the block was as perfect as it gets, and a very tough shot found nothing but net. As one commentator puts it (sounds like Hubie Brown, maybe?), "This is a miraculous shot."
But incredible as that shot was, it never would have happened without Smush freaking Parker's (!!) strip and deflection. And Kobe knows it. From stripping the ball without fouling, to dancing along the sideline while chasing a loose ball, to the presence of mind required to calmly make the controlled tap to an already-breaking teammate (Devean George), Smush Parker was, quite simply, playing way over his head. It was a brilliant, savvy, smart play that set up Kobe's shot. Get this right, folks: Kobe may have tied the game, but it was Smush Parker who saved it.
And Kobe knows this. He's just sent the game to overtime, and the crowd is going nuts for him, and he could care less about any of that. Instead of celebrating his own incredible shot or soaking in the crowd's mind-numbing adoration, he makes a bee-line for Smush. There's no simple high five here, no quick butt-smack. He freaking smothers the kid, and doesn't let go of him until Smush knows that he was the man on that play. Even after his teammates catch up and mob Kobe for making the shot, he still doesn't let go of his boy.
Smush Parker didn't put up 25/11/7/5 on the game. In fact, he was pretty bad on the night, going 2-12 for 5 points, with 3 rebounds, only 1 assist, and 5 fouls (and no free throws of his own). As hindsight has made so very clear, it had to be frustrating for Kobe to be playing the mighty Suns alongside a player of Smush's caliber (not to mention Devean George/Brian Cook and Kwame Brown, who, together with Smush, composed 3/5 of the Lakers starting unit). But in this moment, none of that matters, because as far as Kobe is concerned, Smush is the hero of the moment, and he makes sure his point guard gets every ounce of the appreciation he deserves.
Now, don't take this as being some sort of end-all point to completely settle the argument — but doesn't it seem a bit off to you, in watching these two plays, that Kobe had the reputation of being such a bad teammate, and Shaq, such a great one? Certainly, Kobe has had his flaws. But, as this video session suggests, perhaps it's not nearly so cut and dry — perhaps Kobe was never as bad as he was made out to be, and perhaps Shaq was never as good.
Just some food for thought, for the next time the Shaq-Kobe "relationship" comes up.
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We are lucky to be able to witness greatness,
I saw the end of Magic, saw Jordan, and grew up with Kobe. I honestly dont know if there was a better time to watch basketball.
The media portrayed kobe as the bad guy because shaq was just too loveable.
" I'm a human, not a sandwich"
Kobe is aloof, Shaq gregarious........... Who do YOU think the media is gonna push?
I’m still a Shaq guy.
He was just SUPER EXCITED to hit that shot against Portland… It doesn’t make him a bad person to go a little nuts.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I agree.
He was just SUPER EXCITED to hit that shot against Portland.
No doubt they had problems, but that play just seems like excitement dictating the situation. I’m not even sure he noticed Kobe….and trust me, I like to bash Shaq with the rest of them (although he’ll always be a Lakers great).
Kobe WAS aloof
I think he’s much more “human” and available now than every before in his career. I think it has something to do with him remaking his image and all that.
BANG!
Kobe certainly got a bad rap.
But he was right when I read somewhere that he believed that in the long run, “the truth will come out”. And it has, more due to Bryant’s consistency of character than any media focus. I don’t mean reputed character, I mean actual character. Anyone can guess at what someone is like after knowing them for a few days, or reading one or two nationally published columns about him. The only way to find someone’s true essence is to observe him or her over time, not only by their words, but by their actions.
Is Kobe sorry for whatever it is that happened in Colorado (I think we can agree something inappropriate happened there)? I always say that apologies only matter if they are followed up by action. And Kobe has not even come close to repeating his mistakes. We always hear that Kobe matured, and yes he did, in the way that any 20-something boy matures into adulthood, but the majority of fans seems to have misjudged the heart of Kobe Bryant, which was always in the right place. Seems only now that the rest of the hoopsphere is catching on.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Doubt It
Kobe could give all of his money to charity right now and there will still be a segment of the media reminding us of his past “transgressions.” I mean look at Vick, the man has nothing left but football, is playing modestly, endorses PETA, is saying and doing all the right things people still haven’t let it go, and its been almost 3 years. You’re an idealist, just as I, in that everyone deserves their second chance, but to be real you and I both know it’ll take one slip-up, one misjudged comment to bring it all back to life. Even sportswriters say Kobe only makes calculated moves so as to never see the “true side” of him.
Fuck 'em.
Excuse the language, but at this point, we shouldn’t worry anymore. Kobe and his fans have scoreboard. Over everyone. The haters, pro-LBJ camp, pro-Shaq camp, the Simmons’ worshippers. His accomplishments speak for themselves, and his “transgressions” (whatever happened) , have made him a better man (it seems) while those around him are also getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
There will always be a faction
But I think the majority are in Kobe’s camp, now. (I don’t mean necessarily in the Kobe/LeBron discussion, I just mean in the like him/hate him discussion.) Not everyone, but a majority.
Then there are guys like J.A. Adande, who want to pass themselves off as liking him but only use that to try and sneak digs and jabs in there wherever they can. Seriously, it doesn’t matter how great Kobe is on the court, Adande will write it up, and then find a way to mention at least one of the following, and preferably two or three: (1) Colorado, (2) Shaq leaving, (3) Kobe not winning without Shaq until last year, and (4) Kobe being selfish.
But aside from occasional guys like him, and occasional guys who just will never warm to Kobe, I think that the majority of the media has warmed to him again.
Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs
Well I will just say it.........Fuck Shaq. I have always felt this way, even when he was a Laker.
Now on to Kobe. Did anyone else try to lip-read what Kobe said to Smush after that steal? I am pretty sure he said (twice) “you are a bad motherfucker”. Watch it around 1:30 mark and see if you agree. Interesting considering Smush’s comments recently.
Josh, I never thought about the two buzzer beaters in the same game twice thing. Interesting. I doubt it has ever happened before.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Insightful and entertaining
I’m glad someone has finally spoke out and said the truth (props to Josh). I started watching the Lakers around 5 championship (for the Bulls) and they were a terrific team even before they got Kobe. Shaq was a monster player on defense and inside on offense.
However, they missed couple things: perimeter shooter and clutch player who could seal the game, enter Kobe Bryant. Watching the Lakers play I always had a feeling like that team was overplaying the same scheme (throwing the ball to Shaq) and getting hurt by that, and that was Shaq’s turnovers and free throws. If not for the big guy whining they could have run offense more freely like they do it now. First three Laker championships (this decade) Shaq got all the credit (mvp’s, finals mvp’s, points, rebounds,…) and Kobe was his sidekick. But, how many of us felt Kobe deserved more credit? 4th quarters were absolutely dominated by Kobe because he was allowed to take over, and that’s where the Lakers were at their best. After Shaq trade it became evident how arrogant and selfish Shaq was, he wanted all the glory for himself, and if that happened we would never know how great Kobe is. I’m gonna say this, if Shaq trade didn’t happen Kobe would probably be considered one of 50 best players in NBA history. Now he’s one of 10 best. Another thing, Kobe basically created the all-star mvp for Shaq this year, and Shaq acted very ungratefully and pathetic (kinda like after that alley-oop play). Good thing they traded him because no way they would have won another championship together. Another thing, this year team beats the 1999-2000 squad that won 67 games hands down.
“I’m gonna say this, if Shaq trade didn’t happen Kobe would probably be considered one of 50 best players in NBA history. Now he’s one of 10 best.”
Great point. The truth is Kobe would still be just as great if Shaq had stayed, but his “stats” (that the media and Kobe haters love to point at) wouldn’t be as good. Proving once again that it isn’t about stats.
Conversely had Kobe not played half of his career with the human black hole, Kobe would have even more impressive career stats (but less championships), which apparently (think James, Lebron) would make him a better player.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
hey everyone, i have been reading your posts for a looonnnnngg time now, at least going back to last year, and i really enjoy your intelligent opinions about the game..it’s really interesting to read and always enjoyable..
I ADORE KOBE BRYANT..i believe that there are lootttsss of things that separates him from every other player in the league and quite possibly our beloved MJ, and am sure i don’t have to list these things, his growth and maturity for sure has been the most obvious..
as far as the comparison to these videos, i happened to watch both games when it happened, the former with lots of angry laker fan..and the interesting thing was when shaq dunked the alley, EVERYBODY went “KOBEEEEEEEEEEE” and the reason was obvious, he MADE that play and obviously enough credit didn’t go his way, now compared to the 2006 video where we’ve heard that kobe didn’t really enjoyed playing with the likes of Smush, devean, and kwame brown? {oh, and bynum on the bench looking lost and disconcerned…hence the harsh kobe criticism of him at the end of that season} that aside, after smush made that play kobe was the first to hug the shit out of him, talking to him for a while..he might hate him off court, but he got the credits for what he did to save the game before kobe had a chance to take over…Shaq has always and forever will be a fan player and not a team player, he plays for the “love” his fans shows him..kobe plays for the love he has for the game and everything is extra {including a hot wife i might add}…
Nice write-up, Josh
I have noticed both these subtle displays separately, but never really thought about them in the context of each other. Watching Kobe stick out a hand for a high five and getting nothing but forearm is kinda funny and I always point it out to any of my friends when we watch the play together. They all have a similar reaction: “Oh, WHAT???”. Kobe has always been the player to give credit where credit is due to his team, and Shaq has always been the type of player to blow himself up like a hot-air balloon and only play nice when the media is around.
Regardless of how excited Shaq was on that play, ignoring Kobe still shows something about his personality. He wasn’t excited because he and his best teammate had made a great play to seal the deal, he was excited because HE had made a great play to seal the deal…
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
That floater against the Suns was ridiculous. Kobe didn't use the backboard or the rim.
The ball went in perfectly. That’s an H.
Kobe has always lit up Portland. One of my favorite game was this one.
While I understand that Shaq was quite excited about the play, I always thought one’s inclination after a play like that would be to celebrate with player who gave you the helper.
One other observation I saw from each clip is that Kobe retreated back on defense after the made basket on the alley-oop and the tough layup to tie the game against the Suns before celebrating.
I noticed these things to. It's interesting
I particularly like Bob Costas’ commentating. He acknowledged Bryant’s greatness to make it from 79-79 to 85 – 79 LAL.
I’ve watched that entire game online on youtube so many times. It’s such an inspirational game. Best parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3WRMyXw_I&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldY8bcrmdPI&feature=related
A lot of the Shaq-love is perpetrated by Bill Walton. “That’s what the MVP does” referring to Shaq’s layup to give them a 79-77 lead and then the famous ally-oop “That’s what the MVP’s all about!”
and I find it interesting how Scottie Pippen thinks Kobe’s not in the same league as Michael. Perhaps he’s a little angry that Kobe absolutely took him to school on the decisive play of the game. And leading up to that, Pippen was nowhere near as clutch as Kobe.
Well
its actually not surprising as anyone from that era or any era really would like to think that the player that dominated their era is far better. Same with teammates who are in the upper echelon, you got loyalty to the team you root for your teammate. Pretty much everyone from that era would be hard-pressed to say Kobe stacked up to Jordan
Not true
BJ Armstrong and Steve Kerr are on record as saying that Kobe was Jordan’s equal, at least on offense.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
And not on defense?
Kobe is just as good, if not better than MJ on D. In fact, MJ was never an ELITE defender, especially in the second half of his career. He was just a GOOD defender. Kobe was always an elite defender and still is.
MJ did get Defensive Player of the Year
Whatever that’s worth, but regardless, I’m only the messenger of what those two said.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
yeah i forgot he got that....
But Kobe should’ve gotten at least one DPOY award too IMO
From what I’ve gathers Pippen has always thought highly of Kobe
"Pippen said he would have to give the nod to Jordan as the greatest player ever because of what he "was able to accomplish in the game as an individual, from a team standpoint. He was at the top in every aspect of the game – offensively as well as defensively. Has Kobe met that yet? No. Will he? Maybe not. But does that make him less of a player than Michael was? No it does not."
From what I’ve gathers Pippen has always thought highly of Kobe
Well It all depends on how you see it
Like you said ( from what you have gather ) that means you need to look deeper for more information that gives you a better objectivity that what you want to portrait yes is true that Kobe MAY NOT accomplish what MICHAEL HAS and certainly will not be better than MICHAEL so if you pay attention to what you said ;
But does that make him less of a player than Michael was? No it does not."
Be honest with yourself if he has not and probably will not be better than MICHAEL then yes he is less of a player than MICHAEL, and no matter what he accomplish until he retires he is and will be LESS THAN MICHAEL JORDAN .
But don’t get me wrong he is an amazing player but will never be like MIKE
Unless you make him in your head then he is and will always be your MVP
by it all depends on how you see it on Dec 10, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions
Reply to self
After they don’t call the foul for Steve Smith (looks to me like Shaq fouled him) at 86-82, Lakers lead, Kobe gets fouled and misses both free throws. If they call the foul for Smith and Smith makes both (he was a great FT shooter), that would be an 86-84 game, Lakers lead, but Portland’s ball with 25 seconds left. Kobe was 6-12 on FTs that game. Oof.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Guess what else I see?
I just noticed this watching it again. Shaq, being the self-loving moron that he is, immediately starts running to the bench to celebrate his greatness. Without Portland calling timeout. Kobe and Fish stayed on the court until the refs blew the whistle for the timeout, but Shaq completely abandoned the defensive end to ham it up.
by Snoopy2006 on Dec 9, 2009 3:51 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Good observation.
Imagine if Portland had noticed that, and exploited the 5-on-4 game to score before Shaq could recover.
"One half a step too late, or too early, and you don't quite make it. One half second too fast, or too slow, and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team, we fight for that inch. On this team we TEAR ourselves and everyone else around us to PIECES for that inch. We CLAW with our FINGERNAILS for that inch! Because we know, that when we add up all those inches, that's gonna make the FUCKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING! BETWEEN LIVING AND DYING! I'll tell you this: in any fight, it's the guy who's willing to die who's gonna win that inch. And I know, if I'm gonna have any life any more, it's because I'm still willing to fight and die for that inch! Cos THAT'S WHAT LIVING IS! THERE'S SIX INCHES, IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE! Now I can't make you do it! You gotta look at the guy next to ya - look into his eyes! Now I think you're gonna see a guy, who will to go that inch with ya. You will see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team, cos he knows yo, when it comes down to it, you're gonna do the same for him! That's a team, gentlemen! And, either we heal, NOW, as a team; or we will die, as individuals." - end half of Al Pacino's 'Inch by Inch' speech from any given Sunday, best sports movie speech ever.
by Saurav A. Das on Jan 15, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
Wow
Watching the phoenix replays still gives the the chills. Even though I know how the story ended. Losing the 3-1 series lead and all the bashers coming in and killing kobe for game 7. I don’t know if non-Laker fans will understand that this was still one of the most thrilling moments of one of the most thrilling years of the last decade as a laker fan (full disclosure- I was on an airplane during the end of the Portland Game- the pilot announced the Portland lead and right as I walked off the plane people were cheering the end of the game).
Championships are obviously still the measuring stick, but there’s a different type of thrill altogether for “We were never supposed to get this far!” Or as happened that season more than any other: “I cannot miss a game because there is absolutely no ceiling on what Kobe might uncork tonight”
kobe vs shaq
I’m a long time Laker fan living in the D.C. area and the perception here has always been that Kobe was a bad team mate and he had Shaq run out of L.A. I’m constantly defending Kobe to the HATERS, that Shaq was uncomfortable with Kobes star shining brighter then his. Shaq had this problem with Penny also. If you look at Shaq’ s history he has burned bridges at every stop. he had problems with PENNY, Kobe, and he left Miami making bad comments about his teammates and the organization and then he left Phoenix critizing the GM, team and orginization. Shaq of course is loved more by the media and the fans. Surely Kobe made mistakes during thier time as team mates, but one thing Kobe is not guilty of is having a problem playing basketball with Shaq. It has always been my belief that Shaq had problems with Kobe because he took more shots and bigger shots down the stretch in games. Well too bad big fella, Learn how to shoot a free throw, Hack-a-Shaq wasn’t Kobes idea!!!. Kobe Bryant will go down as one of the top 10 players of all time. Ask yourself, How can anyone not want to play with one of the greatest players of all time? Did Kareem have problems playing with Magic, Mchale with Bird, Clyde with Hakeem, Robinson with Duncan, Pippen with Jordan, Dr. J with Malone. No… Only Shaq has had problems playing with one of the greatest players of all time, that player being Kobe Bryant.
POLL:
Was the Staples Center lounder during the alley oop play in 2000, or in 06 with KB’s game winners?
2000
that pretty much secured the first trip to the finals in 12 years
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
my mistake
first finals trip in 9 years
they went to the finals in 1991.
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!
Answer.....
When Kobe accepted his MVP trophy in 2008.
Entire building chanting MVP in perfect unison for about 2 minutes. Awesome.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
I was at that game
Almost got into it with a Jazz fan..lol My best Lakers game ever that I have ever seen because of the significance of Kobe’s accomplishment. It was more than just an MVP trophy. It was redemption for all the nay sayers and it was the begining of his fallen from grace experience.
"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 9, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I was at that game too.
It was awesome, loudest I have ever heard the building. Still haven’t got your e-mail
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
I sent to @live.com
and your screen name right? I sent it like 30 mins to an hour ago.
"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 9, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry....
it went to my junk mail. Just saw it.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
I just clicked on your screen name and saw your email
and that is the one i sent it to.
"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 9, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
if you dont get it you can send me an email
at lakersblog24@yahoo.com thnx.
"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 9, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Shaq and Kobe...
it all depends on how you see it
To me Kobe shoot the ball but fail to made the basket and Shaq was there, so he just jump and dunk the ball to win the game.
I said this because if you see Kobe’s face after the dunk he did not saw that finish on his mind, He want it to hit the wining shoot but fail to do so fortunately for the Lakers Shaq was there.
NOte: I’m a Laker fan ( not just a Kobe’s fan ) If he makes the last basket he is the hero If he can’t make the basket and throws the ball and someone else step up and makes the basket , well still Kobe is the hero. That to me is not fair for the rest of the team.
But remember that before we got this Laker team Kobe did not do much for the team is true he did brake some PERSONAL records but other than that nothing else of substance for the Lakers and now that we have Gasol, Fisher, Odom, Bynum, Ron Artes and the second unit that is playing very good too then is wen we have the pleasure of having this Lakers, But if you insist on Kobe as a hero well take away Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Ron Artes and keep your Kobe I for sure Keep the Lakers
by it all depends on how you see it on Dec 9, 2009 11:57 PM PST reply actions
Before we got this Laker Team
Kobe did everything for this team.
Also, Kobe did not shoot the ball, he read the defense, saw that they committed too many players to him, and then passed to the open player (Shaq) who finished the play. Kobe did the heavy lifting on that play.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on Dec 10, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Great post
… and good points, which makes Smush Parker’s later backstabbing comments hurt even more. Normally I adhere to the “once a Laker, always a Laker” philosophy pretty closely, but Smush Parker is dead to me.
No Respect for Shaq
Shaq showed his true colors his last year in Miami, when he left for Phoenix. He was “injured” and sitting out or playing very few minutes, with very little effort for the Heat, despite a big contract. He went to Phoenix and started playing 30-35 minutes a game. He was doggin’ it, pure and simple. Manny Ramirez did the same thing in Boston before getting traded to the Dodgers. Kobe earns his paycheck every day, no matter how many injuries he has or how many IVs he needs. That’s all the character I need to see. Thank heavens Jerry Buss got this one right.
by celticandlakerfanreally on Dec 16, 2009 12:21 PM PST reply actions
I love shaq & all.....
and am sure his jersey will be in the rafters at staples center when he retires, but he is all about himself and his glory and his commercials and his legacy, where kobe is all about the w. if kobe didnt have to score 30 points a game or carry the team, and still get the w, im sure he would. i get the impression that kobe does not care what his stats are, as long as the team wins. where, in my opinion, shaq was the complete oposite (in his reign with the lakers).
It's outdated perception
The fans love a good player, someone who wins. Back then, Shaq was still better than Kobe; therefore, the lesser must have driven the greater out of town. Plus Shaq had his facade that he put on to market himself, of being a big fun-loving loveable oaf, making the general public love him; while Kobe had his ever-present swagger that alienated casual fans. And I’m not going to even mention how Colorado had public perception skewed against Kobe.
Now, people are finally starting to see the pattern. Shaq ditches Orlando over an ‘offense’ at being offered three million less (but earning more overall due to lack of state income tax) over 6 years, Shaq leaves L.A due to a combination of his feud with Kobe and his feud with the ownership, Shaq leaves Miami due to being a lazy injured stiff and meanwhile calling his teammates out on everything, Shaq leaves Pheonix after screwing up their offense and stealing Nash’s T.V show idea…..
Shaq leaves Cleveland after running LeBron out of town and out of the League by demanding all of LeBron’s touches and then exposing LeBron’s steroid-abuse when he doesn’t get them?
A possibility. ;p
"One half a step too late, or too early, and you don't quite make it. One half second too fast, or too slow, and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team, we fight for that inch. On this team we TEAR ourselves and everyone else around us to PIECES for that inch. We CLAW with our FINGERNAILS for that inch! Because we know, that when we add up all those inches, that's gonna make the FUCKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING! BETWEEN LIVING AND DYING! I'll tell you this: in any fight, it's the guy who's willing to die who's gonna win that inch. And I know, if I'm gonna have any life any more, it's because I'm still willing to fight and die for that inch! Cos THAT'S WHAT LIVING IS! THERE'S SIX INCHES, IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE! Now I can't make you do it! You gotta look at the guy next to ya - look into his eyes! Now I think you're gonna see a guy, who will to go that inch with ya. You will see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team, cos he knows yo, when it comes down to it, you're gonna do the same for him! That's a team, gentlemen! And, either we heal, NOW, as a team; or we will die, as individuals." - end half of Al Pacino's 'Inch by Inch' speech from any given Sunday, best sports movie speech ever.
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