Dwyer's Latest MVP List

by Marty Mart on Dec 2, 2009 9:21 PM PST

So Kelly Dwyer of Ball Don't Lie gave out his early MVP predictions thus far. What do you guys think?

1. Lebron James because his team is 12-5, he's Kelly's proclaimed best basketball player, and he's avging about 30 pts, 8 asts, and 7 rebs, along with a combined 2 stls/blks.

2. Chris Paul, basically because he was good when he played before he got injured.

3. Carmelo Anthony, Melo's been pretty good to start the year and has been playing great all-around game. He's got the highest ppg average in the league. Apparently beat out Bosh by a whisker because of Bosh's defense.

He also did coaches.

1. Stan "the Man" Van Gundy, because of integrating a slew of new players, playing without Shard, and still having a good record

2. Phil Jackson, because he's integrated Artest, he's got the Lakers playing solid D, and he coached through Gasol's absence with a nice record

3. Alvin Gentry, because the Suns aren't as bad as he thought they would be and they're actually winning on a pace towards winning more than 50 games.

Notable Omissions:

MVP List:

Kobe, Nash, Dirk, Bosh, A lot of people were arguing about Wade, but he hasn't been playing as well lately.

Coach List:

Scott Skiles of the Bucks, missing their best scorer, starting a rookie at PG, and has been missing Bogut and they're over .500 barely but their of their last couple games only one has been decided by more than 3 points.

Mike Woodson, no one thought the Hawks would be doing this well at this time in the year or be in contention or possession of the best record at any point and time.

Thats just what I think. What do you guys think? Here's the link. it has most improved player and ROY nominations as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/BDL-s-Award-Tour-MVP-Most-Improved-Coach-ROY;_ylt=Am00PHw43XXafon18ckbW_K8vLYF?urn=nba,206165

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I read this earlier and I was so upset

I honestly don’t care who are person votes for Kobe or if he is on someones list. But, what upsets me is the other picks that are there and Kelly’s logic for choosing those players.

I think smashing the Suns made me realize how far Kobe and the Lakers have come from five years ago, when the Suns had the world at their feet.

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 2, 2009 9:25 PM PST reply actions

ok

chris paul got the nod cause his numbers were good before he got injured
but his team was playing like garbage and had a losing record
i know some might be opposed to this ideology
but if your team is not winning games, then whats the point?
it doesnt really make much sense for him to be on the list…but oh well…just opinions….

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 2, 2009 9:35 PM PST reply actions

opposing that ideology is flat out dumb

If your team is bad, your numbers are almost meaningless. Look at Kevin Martin. His averages were off the chart in Sac these past couple years, but no one even considers him for even the all-star game much less the MVP award because being the best player on a bad team has little meaning.

Looking at his Chris Paul and Lebron picks, it’s fairly obvious that Kelly isn’t being objectional about the award (esp. with Chris Paul). He’s thinking: hey, its Chris Paul! Lebron is understandable, but Chris Paul is so out of the question right now its not even funny.

Right now, as of tonight, I’d say the race is between Dirk, Kobe, and Melo.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Dec 2, 2009 11:17 PM PST up reply actions

every team has a MVP

that’s obvious. The debate is about who’s MVP is greater. And that’s comparing apple’s to oranges. That’s why people love these new stat metrics and PER and whatnot.

To me, the goal of every team is to win championships. If you don’t even make the playoffs, your season was a failure, even if you did improve on last season’s record. Therefor, a MVP should atleast come from a playoff team, and from those team’s, if the player was absent, where would the team be?

But even this line of questioning is lined with errors, because team’s adapt to missing players. Look at the Houston Rockets.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Dec 3, 2009 11:06 PM PST up reply actions

KD's methodology for this stuff is purely statistical

He’s a PER man, 100%. That’s why he would be willing to give Paul the MVP even though the Hornets were winning something like 25% of their games.

PER rankings
1. Paul
2. James
3. Anthony

KD MVP rankings
1. James (he even says Paul would be the choice if not for injury)
2. Paul
3. Anthony

Honestly, it’s something I’ve never understood about KD, considering how much I enjoy reading anything he writes about the game that isn’t something like this. I don’t get it because when he writes about the MVP or the best player, he basically just becomes Hollinger Lite. And he shows day in, day out (with BTB) that he’s so much better then that.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 2, 2009 10:54 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

I agree

Like he talks so much about the fine tuning to the game and footwork and systems teams run and the fluidity of offense, but then just argues statistics all day. I will never understand it. I guess this is how he overcomes possible objectivity in his own thinking. So he can answer questions like ours with a statistical answer instead of a gut feeling answer. If you know what I mean.

by Marty Mart on Dec 3, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions

C.A. is 100% right.

by wondahbap on Dec 3, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions

Then the Hornets

played better after he went down. Of course, the credit will go to the change in coaching, but if he’s MVP leaing, that shouldn’t matter. Scott was CP’s guy afte rall.

by wondahbap on Dec 3, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions

That's all on the coaching

That entire team with the exception of Paul wasn’t motivated at all. It wasn’t his fault that Peja decided after Bower took over that he was going to start nailing shots, open or not, that CP was spoon-feeding him game after game. It also wasn’t CP’s fault that 1) Scott didn’t play Thornton at all, even with the NO offense dying from a lack of a consistent deep threat 2) Scott has the aptitude to run one play: the pick-and-roll.

Now, should he be a clear-cut MVP candidate? I’d concur that we should wait until he actually gets back, but anyone thinking that this is a worse team with him there instead of Collison is out of their mind.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Dec 3, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions

I agree with you.

I just don’t think CP3 deserves MVP consideration. Because an MVP would’ve had the team better than they were. So, as good as he was, he needed to better for MVP. I don’t know how that’s possible.

In no way what-so-ever do I think the Hornets are better off without Paul. He’s pretty much lights out right now. I always thought the Hornets fate lies with Peja’s back. Now it’s more apparent that Scott’s handcuffs played a big role.

by wondahbap on Dec 4, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions

It’s ridiculous to have a guy who played just over half of his team’s games on any MVP list. It’s even more ridiculous that his team had only won three games with him in the lineup. The MVP award has always gone to winners, I don’t know why KD thinks otherwise.

by brianfbb on Dec 3, 2009 8:44 AM PST reply actions

KD is Solid

He has no agenda against Kobe or the Lakers or for Lebron or CP3. He has been effusive in his praise of Kobe and implied that he may be playing as well as he has at any point in his career. If he has a bias, it’s towards Chicago. This is just what he believes, and he has the experience and knowledge to justify it. I doubt he’d ever try to justify it as the only correct perspective.

The fact is- Lebron’s numbers are always historical and CP3’s have been beyond amazing this season. Freakishly good. And he doesn’t have the freaksih body like Lebron to explain those numbers. I fully expect the Hornets to improve dramatically once he’s back in the lineup and their strength of schedule becomes less hellacious.

I love the Lakers and hope Kobe wins MVP (though I’m realistic), but lets not throw anybody who disagrees with the gospel into the Heretic camp…

by j_d_hastings on Dec 3, 2009 12:27 PM PST reply actions

Meh, KD has an underhanded way of praising Kobe

I’m not saying that he should bow down to Kobe or say that Kobe’s perfect, because, Kobe’s not … but, KD always compliments Kobe the player and then manages to find someone to criticize Kobe the person in the same post. Why does KD feel the need to mention how great Kobe plays, but also add that Kobe is fake and orchestrates his image? If it’s truly about basketball, then there should be no need for KD to drag out what he feels about how Kobe handles himself because by doing so, he IS effectively, subtly and in an underhanded manner saying Kobe’s personal matters outweigh is basketball skills. He does it in every post “praising” Kobe.

Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.

by PeanutButterSpread on Dec 3, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions

*and that should say "someway" not someone

by PeanutButterSpread on Dec 3, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions

I’d have no problem with those ranks if he were projecting. But correct me if I’m wrong, but no MVP in the past few decades has missed half his MVP season, and nobody on a losing team has ever been named MVP. Chris Paul should not be on this list.

Numbers-wise, these are the people who deserve MVP candidacy right now:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi

KD has been a decent blogger but he’s pretty inconsistent with his lists.

by brianfbb on Dec 3, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions

Meh

He’s been consistent in his list for MVP for the past 3 years. Lebron 3 years ago. Lebron 2 years ago. Lebron 1 year ago. he’s pretty consistent. The only issue I have with him is not a bias against Kobe, but his over-reliance on stats to decide. That and he also goes back and forth on how he feels about the Cavs. One week they’re showing dominance that they are always capable of and the next they’re a down and out team that only clicks because of Lebron. I think they’re talented enough to be a wonderful team if they had a good coach with a system. He even says that some times, but he really goes back and forth on it a lot.
Its not about Kobe or anyone else who was missing off the list, but I don’t think Melo is an MVP in any sense of the word as he is pretty much one-dimensional in the stat book for a SF. I mean honestly Jamison does more than him with less time with the ball. I’m all happy for Melo that he’s actually playing like he always should at the beginning of the season, but I wouldn’t say he’s exactly carrying the Nuggets with the multiple threats and the deep bench they have on that team. I just feel the others are more deserving for playing with people missing and all that.

by Marty Mart on Dec 3, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions

Others are more deserving for playing with people missing and all that.

Like Kobe?

All that aside, remember those “top 10 of the decade” lists he made a few months ago? Yeah he relied purely on stats, and claimed that winning has no effect on a player’s position. That was his reason for KG over Kobe. But although KG has statistically been the most dominant player this past decade, Duncan earns the top spot. With KD himself rating KG higher defensively and taking his best statistical season over Duncan’s. I know I’m nitpicking, but that’s the inconsistency I’m talking about.

by brianfbb on Dec 3, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions

More like

Anyone who I put up as notable omissions. I know he’s inconsistent. I was just saying as far as MVP he’s been pretty consistent.

by Marty Mart on Dec 4, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions

He does use stats

But the guy watches- and writes about- nearly every game of the season, and has for a decade or more. So it’s not like he’s just sitting down at some point in the season, sorting Hollinger’s PER rankings and copying the top 3 names into his (nonexistant) ballot. I’d say he’s twice as qualified to have an opinion than any of the actual writers (or tv personalities) with votes. He came up with a different answer than I’d like, but that doesn’t make Kobe any less awesome to me.

AND, by the way, Mike Trudell had him on his Lakers podcast today. http://my.lakers.com/blogs/2009/12/04/nba-podcast-yahoocoms-kelly-dwyer/

(And on there he says Pau is the best PF in the game today, DESPITE having lower numbers because of who he plays with)

by j_d_hastings on Dec 4, 2009 2:18 PM PST reply actions

i agree

at the end of the day, different people are going to have different opinions because they judge the game in a different perspective.

though, i do find dwyer’s domineering writing tone to be pretty annoying

by Nostance on Dec 4, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions

Why does the media vote for MVP anyway?

I’m sure there’s a very good reason as it seems other sports leave it up to the media as well. And no disrespect to any writer or broadcaster, but why don’t coaches, players, or even scouts get a say?

by brianfbb on Dec 5, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions