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Superstar efforts key another Lakers victory


The Los Angeles Lakers beat the Milwaukee Bucks on the road last night.  It was a very competitive game, the ending was amazing (again), and though it took an extra 5 minutes, the Lakers escaped with a good win, 107-106.  The victory was all the more improbable because of poor showings from a good chunk of the team.  I guess you can win games 2 v. 5 in this league, if you have the right 2.  The Lakers have the right 2.

Star-divide

What a game.  Forget, for a second, how it ended.  Forget the latest entry in the book of Kobe Bryant's Greatness, Volume Infinity.  This game had almost everything you could ask for.  It was extremely competitive throughout.  The Lakers largest lead was 8, but that lead was short lived.  The Bucks largest lead was 6, and it came with 1:25 left in a game they ended up losing.  The rest of the time, you were left with two tough defensive teams who gave everything they had to try to win the game.  There were times when the action was sloppy, and neither team shot the ball particularly well, but the intensity of the game was high throughout.

The Lakers should be thankful for this victory, but they should also be proud of it.  Some have said that a 1 pt win on a buzzer beater in OT against a middling team is not a good victory.  I disagree.  The Bucks record is not great, but they fall into the familiar pattern of being lights out at home and terrible on the road.  They are 2-8 in road games, 8-4 (now) in home games.  The only teams they've lost to at home were Dallas, Boston, and Cleveland.  They have wins over Denver and (injury depleted) Portland.  And the Lakers were the first team to deal with Michael Redd playing like, well, Michael Redd.  25 points off the bench for Redd, and only a bunch of missed shots late kept it from being an efficient 25 poitns.  On the 2nd night of a back to back, the effort the Lakers put into this game was something worthy of pride.  Specifically, the efforts of Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol.

Kobe and Pau were spectacular in a way that isn't normally possible for two players on the same team. Both played more minutes than you normally can in an NBA game, 49 for Pau and 50 for Kobe.  They combined for 60% of the team's points, 70% of the team's rebounds, and 44% of the team's assists.  Kobe's line:  39 pts on 28 shots, 12-12 from the FT line, 7 rebounds, 4 assists.  7 turnovers, but c'mon, the dude has a broken finger in his dominant hand.  Pau's line might have been more impressive:   26 pts on 15 shots, 22 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 blocks.  Just monsterous.  When the game's greatest player scores 39 points and hits a buzzer beater, but you are still stealing some of his attention, it just goes to show how good Pau Gasol is becoming.

We'll have more on Kobe later in the day, but allow me to focus in on Pau.  At this point, where does he get ranked?  Is he a top 10 player in the league right now?  Top 5?  Top 3?  Is he the best big man in the league?  Throughout his career, he's always been good.  Throughout his time with the Lakers, he's always been a star.  But his overall game continues to improve by leaps and bounds that should not be possible for a guy with as much experience and success as he's had.  Since coming back this season, he's become an absolute monster on the boards.  Basketball-Reference lists Dwight Howard and Joakim Noah as the league leaders in rebounds per game at 12.7 and 12.1 per contest, respectively.  Gasol is not on the list because he has not yet played enough games to qualify.  His season average: 12.7.

Pau's also shown that his defensive improvement in last year's playoffs, specifically the Finals, is no fluke.  His blocks per game is an unspectacular 1.5, the same as the much maligned Andrew Bynum.  But there is no question that, since his return, the Lakers team defense has been extremely formidable.  And he does a great job of playing defense without fouling, with only 2.1 fouls per game.

Combine the beastly rebounding and stellar defense with the biggest big man skill set in the game offensively, and you've got a strong case that Pau is the best big in the league.  Tim Duncan is still amazing, Howard is still the most intimidating and powerful speciman down low, and Chris Bosh is part of the conversation as well.  But, for my money, Pau has improved more than Howard over the last two years, despite the fact that Howard is younger and thus should be improving more, and has a legitimate place in the conversation of top big men, and top overall players, in the league.

Oh, and the Lakers have that other guy who's pretty good, too.  With Kobe and Pau playing at the level they are playing at, the Lakers have entered into the familiar territory of possibly having the best big and the best perimeter player playing on the same team.  This hasn't happened in the NBA since, well, the last time that Kobe was part of that combo with one Shaquille O'neal.  That team won three straight championships.  This team, with a supporting cast that far outstrips the previous dynasty in terms of talent, is capable of being much better.  That, and this team is free of the Alpha Dog animosity that ruined the first go around.  That's why you see people across the league talking about how screwed everyone else is.  Kelly Dwyer is saying it.  Matt Moore is saying it.  Hell, Bill freaking Simmons is saying it.

Some other game notes

  • Ah yes, the elephant in the room.  The Lakers were given an absolute gift in the form of an and 1 while down 4 and under a minute to play in overtime.  Kobe spun into the lane, hit a stationary defender blindly, and took another step before hitting a shot off the glass.  After confering about the call for 5 seconds or so, the refs called a block, and even more egregiously counted the basket.  It was a doubly bad call.  It should have been a charge (a no call would have been more forgiveable than a blocking foul), and once they decided it was a block instead of a charge, the basket still shouldn't have counted because Kobe travelled after the "foul" but before the shot.  It was wrong all the way around.  No matter where you fall on the spectrum of NBA referees, from "They are the best refs in the world, tough sport to call" to "the refs suck and give superstar calls, but what can you do" to full conspiracy "The NBA is rigged" mode, everyone got evidence in favor of their argument last night.  I'm not going to break out the typical responses, the "don't put yourself in that position", "one call doesn't change the game, there were lots of bad calls both ways", "if you made your own free throws" answers that normally come out of the camp who got the call in their favor.  The bad call was a bad call.  It probably did affect the outcome of the game directly.  If Bucks fans decide to focus on that and feel cheated today, I can't blame them.
  • The Lakers really need to fix their outside shooting.  In the past few games, they've shot horribly from outside, continued with last night's 4-16 performance.  Ron Artest has been the guy missing a lot of these shots, but last night he was a respectable 2-5.  This time, the problem was across the board, with lots of players getting into the act of missing from deep.  And many of these shots aren't bad shots.  The Triangle is an offense that requires decent outside shooting to keep the lane from getting clogged, so this is an aspect that needs to be improved, not avoided.
  • Andrew Bynum is in a full on slump.  Another bad game in a string of bad games for AB.  Tonight he was plagued by foul trouble, so it is a bit more forgiveable.  But he once again had only 3 boards in 24 minutes, he picked up 5 fouls in 24 minutes, and unlike most other games, he didn't even find a rhythm on offense, scoring only 8 points.  It could be that there's just no way to fully integrate the greatness of Pau and Bynum together, but there's no doubt that he's struggled as Pau has looked incredible the past few games.

 Check out what Brew Hoop has to say, and here's your box and recap

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Kobe is insane

I’m a huge Bucks fan, and was at the game last night. I gotta give it to Kobe, he is funnnn to watch. I was really dissappointed that the Bucks couldn’t pull it out, but its cool bc i got really cheap lakers tickets at www.InSeats.com
http://www.inseats.com

by SteveG1 on Dec 17, 2009 10:33 AM PST reply actions  

Thanks for that post Steve, qulaity banter between opposing fans is hard to find

I was really surprised by the amount of Laker fans at the game last night. I was watching the replay of Kobe’s shot and it looks like about half the building slumped and half the building jumped after the shot.

by 99bc99 on Dec 17, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm a laker fan

through and through, but I really feel for your team. Without that bum call, we could have lost. So it was actually a “gift” win, IMO. Not that the lakers didn’t deserve it, its just that the refs blew it.

by altree on Dec 17, 2009 10:59 PM PST up reply actions  

That call is the type of call that they should allow instant replay on

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Dec 17, 2009 10:34 AM PST reply actions  

agreed

i was thinking the same too
heres though my idea for when to use it:
on plays where the refs do not agree on a call and it occurs in the final 2 minutes of the 4th of a close game or in OT… thats when they should use it.
i think they were in confusion over the right call on that play.

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 17, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

im not sure

that was just my idea

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 17, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Never stuff like foul calls

They are allowed to review whether a shot is worth two or three points, whether it was shot before the buzzer went off etc. But foul calls, which are often a matter of judgment instead of cold hard fact, are not reviewable.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Even if they had allowed instant replay, I still think the call could have gone either way. It was a tough tough call to make.

by intuitive on Dec 17, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Kobe

39 points, buzzer beater, and only two broken fingers

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 AM PST reply actions  

I must have missed something

He has two broken fingers? Or are you being clever and I don’t get it?

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

his pinky?

" I'm a human, not a sandwich"

by true_lakerfan on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Never had surgery on his pinkie

As far as I know, it’s still got that avulsion fracture?

by whorge on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Wrong portion of that injury.

Avlusion fractures don’t require surgery to heal, just immobilization. Same is true of most normal broken bones. When you get your leg put into a cast, it’s not really a surgical procedure, I don’t think.

The part of Kobe’s injury from two years ago that supposedly required surgery was the torn cartilege.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Torn ligaments

And I didn’t know that. Surprising, since that injury got so much coverage that I almost felt like I could do the surgery myself.

Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs

by Josh Tucker on Dec 17, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, after Kobe played through the season with it

he consulted doctors about whether to get surgery, and I think the recommendation was not to. He apparently built up scar tissue in the finger enough that his body basically fixed it self, or something to that affect.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, that part I knew

And yes, that’s what happened. The ligaments were torn, and eventually the scar tissue formed as a bridge between them and the fingers, as I understand it.

What I didn’t really know — or, I guess, hadn’t figured out by connecting the dots — was that it was the ligaments, specifically, that required surgery, and not the fracture.

Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs

by Josh Tucker on Dec 17, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I stand corrected

One broken finger

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Dec 17, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont think the call DIRECTLY affected the game because...

Its not like that call happened on the last possesion of the game. And you gotta remember that the Bucks were STILL UP BY 1 with 5 seconds to go. Good teams figure out ways to win despite those bad calls. And actually, if you go back and look at the call, Bogut’s feet werent firmly planted on the floor so he was moving when Kobe made contact. It just happened so fast and Kobe drove into him with so much force that it just looked like a clear charge. If it was me, it should’ve been a no call since its so debatable. Anyways, my point is that I disagree that the one call prevented the Bucks from winning the game because they still had a lead with a chance for their defense to make a stop. If they would’ve made the stop, then nobody would remember that call.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 11:31 AM PST reply actions  

And regarding the travel....

Kobe travels I would say, about on 40% of his offensive moves. So I wont disagree that it was a travel because it was, but do you really believe that the refs would’ve called that, especially at the end of games? I bet even Bucks fans wouldnt even expect them to call it.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

40%? thats ridiculous

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Dec 17, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

lol okay maybe 20%

but he does do it, particularly on his post moves when he spins

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

He's known to have the best "footwork" in the game

I don’t know about 20%…

Then again, it looks to me like 100% of the players “palm” the ball… maybe it’s hard to call or forgiven, I don’t know.

by 99bc99 on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Still think the number is way too high

It’s not for nothing that Kobe is considered to have the best footwork in the league. And yes, with the game on the line, I would expect the refs to call a travel when Kobe uses two steps to spin, and then takes a third step before getting a shot off, because that move is physically impossible without travelling.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah but he does that move so much that

they think that they’ll just let him get away with it. Whether its right or wrong, I dont expect them to call it because if they did, they would be calling travels on Kobe all the time.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

How can that be true?

When Kobe normally does his spin move, he rises immediately after the spin. Yesterday, he spun, the contact occurred, and then he took a completely different step to gather himself and make the basket. The extra step is where the travelling occurred.

He can’t have done that move all the time, because there’s no reason for it unless your momentum gets stopped mid spin.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

All I'm saying is that if the Lakers don't get that call, they probably lose.

Yes, the Bucks had multiple chances to make the call irrelevant. I’m not saying that the call is the ONLY reason the Lakers won, just one of many. But if the refs called either a charge or a travel on Kobe, and they probably should have called one or the other, the Bucks (probably) win the game. So yes, that one call directly influenced the outcome, IMO. Just because it wasn’t the only reason, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a reason.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

haha okay i just misuderstood you then

thought you meant that the call was like, the defining reason we won taht game and that the refs clearly handed the game to us. But yeah, I agree that if we dont get that call, its over.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not just the Bucks blowing it, though

Bogut’s and-1 before that? Pretty suspicious call, as well.

And there’s this, too:

My main thought is: Kobe Bryant probably has the best body control, footwork and sheer skill of any NBA player. If the game were consistently called by the book, he’d adjust faster than anybody, his hard work would be rewarded, and there’d be a new facet of his game: You could show it to high-school players and tell them to copy the same moves.

That’s from Henry Abbott in a mostly-worthless article that (a) simply restates the already well-known positions of the two camps, and (b) states that “Every which way people slice and dice crunch time numbers — field goal percentage, plus/minus, you name it — Bryant is not the NBA’s best in crunch time” — and yet fails to mention that this is all according to a very specific and highly debatable definition of what “crunch time” is.

That said, his final point is a good one. “The way things are in the NBA” is not an unknown thing. Everyone knows it, understands it, attempts to use it to their advantage. Seriously, Bogut, you think you’re going to draw a charge in that situation?

The call was predictable. If it’s a foul/travel and they don’t call it, that’s bad; if it’s not, and they do call it, that’s worse. This is part of the game, it has been explicitly stated by the refs, it is well understood by players and coaches. Players adjust accordingly, some better than others.

And it’s not a one-way street, either. The offensive player gets the advantage when it comes to offensive fouls and travels — but the defensive player also gets to be more physical, create contact. Remember LeBron whining a few weeks ago after his shot was blocked, and he thought there was contact? Maybe there was, maybe there wasn’t (I thought there wasn’t, but it was clearly close enough to go either way, if you want to call it by the book) — but the refs aren’t just as hesitant to decide the game with a call on the defense as they are with a call on the offense. You see last-possession free throws for the offensive player about as much as last-possession turnovers by the offensive player.

Obviously, everyone knows all this. My point is this: something that is an inherent part of how the game is played can not be considered to have affected the outcome of the game. If it did, then all you can say is that basketball affected the outcome of the game.

Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs

by Josh Tucker on Dec 17, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't want to dwell on the officiating

that’s not really the point.

But it seems to me like you are picking and choosing the parts of your argument that help the cause. You say Bogut should know he’s not going to get the charge, and that’s fine. You say that to call a foul/travel and be wrong is worse than to not call either, and that’s fine too. Then you say it’s not a one way street, that defenses are allowed more contact and aggresiveness on the final plays too. Which is exactly what did not happen in last night’s game.

The proof of your argument would have been no foul call on the play at all. Then, Kobe’s shot would have been to send the game into a 2nd OT (or more likely he would have taken a much more difficult three point shot). Since the refs did make a call, I don’t see how you can argue the point that Kobe getting away with stuff is ok because that’s just what happens at the end of games, both offensively and defensively.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, I think the point has been made here. Move along.

We don’t want any flame wars, do we?

=) damn that was fun.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm totally going to make you a moderator

And completely ruin all the fun you have with this site.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

You definitely don't want to make me a moderator.

My “you probably shouldn’t say that” filter is permanently broken.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 17, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

It's cliché, but this is different

Because the contact was extreme, and the result was Bogut tumbling to the ground. I’m not one who thinks that every time there’s contact followed by a guy falling down, either a block or a charge is required — but in this case, I think the severity of the contact (and its result) forced a foul call. At that point, the question was which way it would go.

I think if Bogut is bumped/knocked/pushed back but ultimately keeps his feet, Kobe gets the basket but no and-1.

Anyhow, that is why I treat this situation differently; the overall point still holds.

Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs

by Josh Tucker on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Im not sure if and 1 was the right call

because Kobe traveled but it definitely was a blocking foul.

by Madz on Dec 17, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I've yet to see the other angle video

But calling that “definitely a blocking foul” is a stretch. Kobe hit Bogut directly in the chest with his shoulder, and I’ve seen that call given to the defense quite often, regardless of how set his feet were.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd call the block/charge a very close one

Could go either way, hard to officiate. Can easily see either argument.

I’d call the travel not a very close one.

Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs

by Josh Tucker on Dec 17, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

damn C.A., who's side are you on?? LOL

You sound like your the writer for the Buck’s site on SB Nation. lol

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Just trying to play it straight that's all

Heh, I know what you mean, all my comments seem so anti-Laker on this thread.

But I have to call them like I see them. I thought that call should not have gone in L.A.‘s favor, and I just get tired of people always trying to justify it only when it happens in favor of their team. I don’t try to justify a bad call when it goes against L.A., so I can’t try to do it when it goes for L.A.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Bynum had a bad game?

i thought bynum had a pretty good defensive game. he was blocking and challenging shots.

personally, i don’t care how many points he has. Though the rebounding is a concern.

by nilwnah on Dec 17, 2009 11:58 AM PST reply actions  

Bynum looked good defensively for the first 6 minutes

after that though, it was garbage

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Dec 17, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought he had a good game as well, defensively. He was altering shots and trying to block them. He didn’t look as bad but his rebounding numbers have dipped a lot since Pau’s return.

by intuitive on Dec 17, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

The Lakers haven’t looked that great on the road so far this year. But I am happy to just get the road wins – even the lucky ones.

I was glad to see how the Lakers were able to concentrate and execute on the last few possessions in the 4th & OT. It would be nice if they could focus like that more times throughout the games. But I will not worry about a game in Milwaukee a couple of weeks before Christmas.

I am also glad that Artest is the one worried about focus. Perhaps he can motivate some of the others (that means you LO, Jordan, Drew, etc.)

Let’s make sure we get the next couple of games guys. I know Ron, Drew & L O are from the area. Have fun back there guys but please don’t drop the next game to the Nets.

The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."

by olf on Dec 17, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

Before we start overly complaining about Drew's rebounding

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2009/12/17/bynum-on-the-boards/

Another insightful post by FB&G to look beyond the obvious.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Dec 17, 2009 12:53 PM PST reply actions  

I actually read that before complaining

That post goes deeper than to just say it, but I saw nothing in there that absolved Bynum from blame for poor rebounding.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

well, some of it made sense....

like when he had to come over and contest jumpers shot from the guards and he was too far away to grab the rebound. But some of those failed rebounds were just poor effort on his part. Also, theres no reason why he shouldnt be getting more offensive rebounds: hes just about always the tallest, biggest, and most lengthy player on the court in every game.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess there was a lot of talk that Bynum's help D is preventing rebounds

And I agree with the sentiment that I’d rather have him focus on help D than on rebounds.

But there were lots of other times it was pointed out that Bynum doesn’t have the passion or mentality of a rebounder.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah too bad he doesnt have that passion all the time cuz

he’s so strong and lengthy that he could be a more dominant rebounder than D Howard if he had the mindset that Howard has. Drew is underachieving and it makes me sick

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

i dunno about being better rebounder than howard

dwight is still a bit more athletic and i think he has a faster reaction time.

by Nostance on Dec 17, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the refs never made calls based on the player, but rather on the actual play that happened? I can imagine a world were the lowliest rookie doesn’t get screwed over because he’s a rookie and the seasoned veteran doesn’t get special treatment. A world where a travel is a travel, regardless of who has the ball. A world where a foul is a foul, and is even reviewable. A world, in other words, where the superstars dont get the calls just because of who they are.

Personally, I’m sick to death of seeing the Kobes, LeBrons, Wades, etc of the NBA get the call because of who they are. I can’t imagine such incredible competitive and talented players as them even being happy about that kind of situation… who wants to win something because of who you are rather than your actual abilities and production? The refs should’ve been able to review that play and in any case it should NOT have been an And 1. If it was a blocking foul, then it’s 2 free throws since he dribbled the ball before shooting. If it’s a travel or an offensive foul, same thing. I’m just sick to death of seeing superstars get the call because of who they are, and it’s bullsh-t to try and justify it by saying “that’s just how the NBA is”. It’s wrong, and if every fan had to experience the losing side of superstar calls, you’d think so too.

by Roxanna on Dec 17, 2009 1:54 PM PST reply actions  

That's just how the NBA is

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Dec 17, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

that’s just how the NBA is

says it all
its like that for pretty much every star in the NBA
they need to clean it up over the next couple of years…

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 17, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

All of a sudden when it's Kobe, it's "time to clean it up"

What about when Michael Jordan was getting superstar calls, where was the uproar?

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Dec 17, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know, but if there was any.....

it was probably in Denver.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 17, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

MJ was more universally respected perhaps

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 17, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

same case with Lebron and Wade. People just dont like Kobe personally. Mainly because of the whole Shaq fiasco and his trade demand rant in 2007.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

instead of espn and around the horn and PTI talking about kobes game winning shot..

they are talking about how kobe gets all these BS calls and like the and 1..

they never want to give the guy credit for doing what he does.. he scored 7 points in 1 minute and won us the game on a time expiring shot.. if he missed we lost… instead though they want to talk about how he gets the superstar call

by matthewmafa on Dec 17, 2009 2:45 PM PST reply actions  

Espn

is owned by lebron they wouldnt want to make kobe look good

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions

by Czheck on Dec 17, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

read Hollinger's chat....

he says that Lebron is “hands down” the best player in the NBA and that the evidence proves it. I’m curious who you think is better C.A. I know you’ve said before that Lebron is better because he’s more effective against better defensive teams but Kobe is more skilled. You still feel that way?

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 3:52 PM PST reply actions  

yeap

hollinger typically favors lebron
hes a big time stat geek.
but i dont blame him
its a tough call.

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 17, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah same here..

but I’d still rather take Kobe for a last second shot and even for the whole 4th quarter. I’m not a Lebron fan but I just cant say that he’s overrated. Maybe overhyped, but not overrated.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I blame Hollinger

For relying completely on stats right after he says that he doesn’t rely completely on stats.

It is a tough call, but Hollinger doesn’t think so. LeBron is a stat geek’s wet dream, so to him it’s clear cut.

by C.A. Clark on Dec 17, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

"stat geeks wet dream"

BWAHAHAHA!!!! Hollinger makes me sick sometimes.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

What if the question was different

If you had to pick to extend Kobe’s contract right now or sign Lebron to the Lakers and loose Kobe to another team? Just curious.

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Whoa

thats a tough question. As much as it pains me, I’d have to go with the younger guy. Even though Kobe is probably gonna be an elite MVP caliber guy for the next few years, its still a big risk to sign a guy to that much money when he’s on the other side of 30. Its tough, but our window of opportunity would skyrocket if we signed Lebron. How bout you? (and try to put your KB homerism on the backburner, as hard as it is)

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you kidding me...j/k : )

I would choose Lebron. Aside from everything you said which I agree with…I cannot get out of mind that Kobe as much as I love him he did request a trade and wanted to go to the Bulls which means that at anytime he could decide to bolt so my loyalty can only run as far as he has shown his loyalty is. But mainly for one reason above all:

I love the Lakers more than any individual player. I love the team regardless of who is on it or not I will always love this team. That is where my loyalty stands. And if I got over Shaq leaving I can get over Kobe leaving because in the long run Lebron will be better for the Lakers.

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions  

btw..The Lakers had to go with youth

when they picked Kobe over Shaq.

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

if we start completely from scratch, probably lebron (for the same reason mentioned above)

but it would also depend on the length of the extension and personel on the team. a shorter extension would favor kobe. also, if we kept the same team (including coaches) would also make a stronger case for kobe. there is still a question of how well lebron would run in the triangle. he’s a smart guy and he’ll figure out how it works for sure, but does he skillset fit?

by Nostance on Dec 17, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Well let's just say that nothing else would change

only the Superstars. KObe leaves and Lebron signs here. I would choose Lebron but you bring up a good point. It would depend on the length of the extension.

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

if we used MJ as a benchmark of Kobe's physical progression/decline

it’s possible he could still be great at 35.
so if the extension is anything within 4-5 years, i would still keep kobe. especially considering that he’s already integrated into the system and the pieces fit well around him and his skills. lebron is great, but he has a different skillset & strengths, so you’ll have to readjust the offense around him. the refitting could turn out great, but there’s also a chance of it not turning out as well as it sounds…so you’ll have to choose between the risk and the potential reward.

by Nostance on Dec 18, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

i think i just threw up in my mouth,

I would also have to say…..gulp….Bron….. He is younger and would keep our championship window open for a long long time. And if he were to develop a killer instinct and desire to win like Kobe, he would just be down rite scary.

I am HUGE Kobe fan, but an even BIGGER Laker fan. I think im gonna be sick.

" I'm a human, not a sandwich"

by true_lakerfan on Dec 18, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Screw that

I’m keeping Kobe because killer instincts aren’t “developed”, you’re either born with it or you’re not, and Kobe has it. We have the chance to have yet ANOTHER dynasty with Kobe being a major part of it. I’m not willing to risk that waiting for a guy to “develop”

by wavenstein on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

he says that Lebron is "hands down" the best player in the NBA and that the evidence proves it

4-0

by grimmz on Dec 17, 2009 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Pau and Lakers nearing extension

A well-placed source has told HOOPSWORLD that Gasol and the Lakers are nearing a three-year contract extension.

Currently Gasol’s deal is set to expire after next season. He’s currently earning $16.5 million for the current campaign and $17.8 million for the next.

The additional three years would be the maximum permitted under the rules of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

While it’s not clear what dollar figures are being discussed, Gasol would be eligible for $18.7-$19.7 million in the first year of the extension depending on where the salary cap falls that year.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=14696

by intuitive on Dec 17, 2009 7:29 PM PST reply actions  

good news

he’ll only be 33 after that extension has expired so we’ll still have him during his prime which is great for us.

by desecrator09 on Dec 17, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude you were all over that Fanpost today at Celtics Blog....

Lots of funny stuff. I particularly liked the guy who kept calling you un-American every time you commented on anything. WTF was that all about?

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 17, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions  

dam it!

I hate going over there because I have been banned now i gotta go check it out

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

There are like 160 comments now.....

mostly desecrator and some other guy going back and forth. pretty funny if you ask me. The other guy is so angry it is hilarious.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Dec 17, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

OMG! I just saw that. I love fans that get emotionally involved like that. Because no matter what you say he/she knows they hate you and will say just about anything. HIlarious stuff! I saw two Denver fans go at it the other day and they went to the point of calling each other racist. How the hell do get from the NBA to racist?

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

haha

that funny guys. I’m not angry at all. I make it look like that to get a point across. Look people I’ve decided to join forces with the Lakers to make the NBA a better place. I respect the Lakers and like their team, big fan of Magic Johnson he is my fav Laker. I think we can change things. I like how Laker fans admit the Kobe call was most likely a charge or travel, that gives me huge respect for their fans. Look at the phony foul call on Perkins tonight with 29 seconds left. Another stupid call. Lets make this fun.

by malik377 on Dec 19, 2009 2:15 AM PST up reply actions  

me too

I hate going over there too, and I’m a huge Celtics fan. However now I am a huge Lakers fan too. I think is best, if we join forces we can make the game better.

by malik377 on Dec 19, 2009 2:16 AM PST up reply actions  

My Theory

is that Kobe wanted to see if the Lakers ponied up the cash for Gasol 1st before he signed his extension.

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow

This team’s salary is going to be massive.

by grimmz on Dec 17, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Buss has said he is willing to pay as long as the team keeps winning.

16 playoff games generate a lot of green. Not to mention the extra cash generated after a team wins the title. The Lakers have been to the Finals more than any other team the last 11 years so that would generate a lot of money.

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 17, 2009 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

That is what Bogut get

for flopping with the game on the line. I don’t believe a spin move from Kobe will knock him down like that, he should have just stand his ground and get the foul, making sure to have no and 1.

by jdsanjuan on Dec 17, 2009 7:39 PM PST reply actions  

Or maybe

Try to block the shot.

by grimmz on Dec 17, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions  

whatever Bogut deserved

the and 1 should have not been called

by altree on Dec 17, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

It was an obvious flop

I wouldn’t have called it either way. What everyone appears to miss is the reach-in from the two adjacent defenders before Kobe hits Bogut. If anything, the Bogut foul was a makeup call.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

definitely a flop

Very good call despite he is not LeBron or Dwade.I am really surprised about comments on ‘’how kobe travels most of the time’’,etc.Looks like a Celtics blog.7 points in 1 minute.Back to back 40 minute games.40.5 points,not bad for a 32 year old.

by meeer1171 on Dec 18, 2009 12:54 AM PST reply actions  

31 year old :P

Lakers 2009 Road to Redemption: TREVOR, DEREK, LAMAR, PAU & KOBE.
Play the game of which Lakers reminds you of: TA - TI, Shannon Brown - Chris Brown, Pau Gasol - Jesus, Machine - Luis Scola/Russell Brand, PJ with mustache and beard - Colonel Sanders.

by PeanutButterSpread on Dec 18, 2009 1:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I miss Lakers basketbal

3 days rest? cooooooooooooooooooooome on… I need to watch the Lakeshow now!

by Julio Nievas on Dec 18, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

not me my liver needs a rest...

"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess" - Kobe

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 18, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I like it here

Hopefully this will be my blog from now on. I am a Celtics/Lakers fan. I appreciate good basketball and the best and most respected teams.

by malik377 on Dec 19, 2009 2:18 AM PST reply actions  

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