Knicks @ Lakers: What to Expect
Honesty is a policy around here, so let's be blunt: Knicks basketball, quite simply, is not something one watches if one can avoid it. Is that harsh? Hey, Knicks fans agree with me! Not convinced? Consider these two recent stories on the Knicks:
- Henry Abbott on TrueHoop pointed out that the success of D'Antoni's 7SOL Suns depended largely on Steve Nash, and that because he no longer has a point guard like Nash, he's not getting the same results in New York. Or anything close. The point was about Nash, but a secondary implied point is that the Knicks s-u-c-k.
- Chris Sheridan, in an article on what is wrong with the Celtics (take a deep breath ... doesn't the air just smell so fresh right now?), had the following to say about the hated Cs' visit to Madison Square Garden: "I am not a Celtics fan, which put me in the minority Sunday afternoon at Madison Square Garden (where the loudest cheers were for, in order: Kevin Garnett's game-winning shot, Will Ferrell's appearance on the video board, the Knicks' gritty effort)."
You get the point. While Golden State fans have loyally cheered for a franchise that in no way deserves their support, and a team that has made it to the playoffs once in the last fifteen years, even the Knicks' own fans have essentially given up all hope for this team. For this year, at least.
But then, as Kobe Bryant would surely point out (and as Boston nearly proved), that's exactly why you need to be careful of games like this one.
Kobe would call this a "trap game," because the opponent is so bad that the Lakers could be lulled into thinking their victory automatic. They could come out lackadaisical and lazy, play with a sense of undeserved entitlement, and expect to win without having to earn it. I'm just sayin'.
As Boston almost found out, that's a good way to lose to the Knicks (I just threw up in my mouth a little).
Let's be serious, though. The bottom line is that the Lakers should blow the Knicks out of the water, but if they don't put forth a good effort for at least two quarters (please, I'm not going to pretend the Knicks are worthy of more effort than Detroit), then it's entirely possible for NY to get hot and beat L.A.
Assuming the Lakers do put forth the 1.5- to 2-quarter requirement of necessary effort, this game should be a third straight blowout. The Knicks don't have a defensive answer for ... uh, anyone. Because the Knicks don't play defense. Against the Celtics, maybe you can get hot and get lucky. Against the Lakers, with Kobe, Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, and Ron Artest on the same team, you can't just let us have our way when we have the ball. But that's most likely exactly what will happen.
Kobe can beat these guys single-handedly. We know this; we have seen it happen. However, the mentality of this team at this specific moment in time is quite different from the one that needed a boost from Kobe after losing Bynum (again), and got it in the form of 61 points and a couple MSG records. This Lakers squad is playing team basketball. They are at full capacity, untouchable when they play together, and they seem to know it. And they should, given their early "struggles" (only a couple teams in this league could use that word in reference to the Lakers' first 11 games), and the way they've played in the last couple games.
Likewise, I don't see the Knicks really having an answer for Pau Gasol or the recently dominant Andrew Bynum. Expect the Lake Show to continue its dominance in the paint, with Gasol and Bynum taking turns in the deep post, Kobe slashing, and mere role players like Artest, Odom, and Fisher picking up the pieces.
Defensively, these Knicks are very stoppable for our long, versatile Lakers squad. Danilo Gallinari is really their only efficient player, offensively, and Ron Artest will likely be tasked to basically make us forget he even suited up. Al Harrington has had a couple good games recently, and when he does the Knicks play well — but Harrington playing "well" (by most of our standards, at least) isn't something very many of us would confidently bet on.
Nate Robinson can get to the rim and hit threes when he's on, and he's given us fits in the past. Fisher's defense has been pretty good recently, though I still wouldn't bet on him containing Nate all on his own. Bynum and Gasol will need to be part of that.
Gasol's return is a Good Thing against these Knicks, who used the pick-n-roll and pick-n-pop very heavily to almost beat Boston. Gasol is our best big man at defending the PnR, so having him back in the lineup means good things both offensively and defensively.
At the end of the day, this Lakers team is on a major roll right now, and very much enjoying Gasol's return — and I don't think that quasi-honeymoon period is quite over yet. I expect Gasol to continue making things easy for the Lakers on both ends of the floor, and I don't expect the Lakers to forget Phil Jackson's lessons on defense and turnovers after only one game. And I expect another blowout.
And at least one more monstrous Shannon Brown throw-down, please.
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Hey guys an Interesting question here
I was reading the Chad Ford chat on ESPN.com earlier and someone asked a question on whether they would rather take Greg Oden or Bynum for the future. Ford said Oden because hes a MUCH better defensive player and defensive big men are more likely to win you a title than a big man who drops in 30 points every game but doesnt play much D. I personally disagree but I’d like to know your take on this guys. Peace!
That assumes Bynum is Amare Stoudemire
The implication is that Bynum doesn’t play defense. Which isn’t true. Yeah, he’s still got plenty of room to grow in that area — but I’ve seen some decent effort from him recently, and he’s only 22, so I’ve got plenty of reason to think he’s going to continue to improve a lot over the next couple of years.
Chard Ford should consider this: Bynum played 1.5 to 2 years of high school ball, at the most; he skipped college, played very little for a couple years … and then, even in his breakout years, when he started to get minutes — it was all cut short by injuries.
And despite this gross lack of experience whatsoever — seriously, is there a less experienced player in the League today? — he’s become a 20/10 guy, and someone capable of (if not yet fully committed to) playing very good defense. Look at 2 years ago, when his offensive arsenal essentially consisted of alley-oops, and look at how developed his offensive game is now, only two (unnaturally short) years later.
What I’m getting at isn’t just how good he is right now, it’s how rapidly he has improved, and how good he is now despite being so inexperienced. Take that into consideration, and then think of how good he can be when he’s actually got as much experience as a lot of other players. When he’s 25, still young, and has lots of high level experience (and possibly a championship or two) under his belt.
Sorry, I’d take Bynum every time. A defensive center is helpful, and he can be one significant piece to build a team with. A player like Bynum has the potential to become THE player you could build a championship team around.
Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs
by Josh Tucker on Nov 24, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Every point you made for Bynum
One can make for Oden.
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 27, 2009 3:50 AM PST up reply actions
Also
Ford’s theory about the types of big men who win titles seems completely wrong. Shaq has always been more an offensive than defensive force, and he’s won four titles. Hakeem was at least as known for his offense as his defense, and he won two. Same with Duncan, and he’s won four.
On the other hand, Mourning + Mutombo = zero titles.
This strikes me as a completely unsupportable statement.
by DexterFishmore on Nov 24, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with both of you guys here
although Alonzo did win a title with the Heat in 06 remember lol. But he wasnt the main guy at all so I feel you there. Thanks for the responses on this guys!
by desecrator09 on Nov 24, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, thanks
Mourning did win in ’06. He was such a minor player on the team (20 MPG, 8 PPG) that I forgot he was on it.
by DexterFishmore on Nov 24, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Zinger
Great examples. Clearly, the kind of center that leads you to a title is either great offensively and good defensively, or great defensively and good offensively. It requires an all-around player, not a specialist.
That’s the problem. Ford thinks you should build your team around a specialist.
Bynum has more potential than Oden, in my own opinion, to dominate at both ends.
Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs
by Josh Tucker on Nov 24, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, disagree on the potential part
Oden has a massive ceiling; Bynum simply is a much more polished player right now though.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Yeah i agree on Oden
he actually DOES have a raw set of post moves now, ive been watching his recent games. He reminds me of a poor mans Dwight Howard right now except hes a little stronger and a little less athletic.
by desecrator09 on Nov 24, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
His post moves are raw.
And still, he leads the NBA in FG%
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 27, 2009 3:55 AM PST up reply actions
To be fair to Ford...
Here are the relevant excerpts from today’s chat:
Tyler (Portland)
Is it time to get excited about Greg Oden or should I hold off for a little longer?
Chad Ford (1:09 PM)
I think so. He’s got a PER at 22 … just slightly behind Kevin Durant this year. He’s definitely a defensive force. Offensively he’s still figuring it out. I know he’s had 16, 16, and 24 in his last 3 games, but I don’t think he’ll keep that up this year. If I’m a Blazers fan I just need 12 to 14 ppg, 10 to12 rpg, 2 bpg and Oden on the floor 25 to 30 min a night. That would be huge. I don’t think he’ll ever put up the big numbers that Shaq did. But he could be the best big man defender in the league. And frankly, having a 7 footer that can do that will produce more rings than a 6-11 small forward who can score 30 ppg. That was the thinking all along why GMs preferred Oden to Durant. KD is the sexier player and as an offensive player there is just no comparison. KD is great. Oden is aspiring to average. But defensively, Oden could be dominant. KD … not so much.
Lance (Pdx )
Which young NBA big man would you rather have? Bynum or Oden
Chad Ford (1:40 PM)
Oden. But that’s not a knock on Bynum. He’s been great this year.
-———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
So, Ford was making his defensive presence argument while he was comparing Oden to Kevin Durant, not Drew. And while he still picked Oden over Drew, he did acknowledge Drew’s great play this season.
I too would rather have Drew than Oden. Drew’s defensive instincts will improve with experience, and I don’t believe Oden will ever develop the offensive arsenal that Drew has RIGHT NOW. I will acknowledge that while Drew will likely be in the All-Star game this season (I don’t think Oden will), I expect that both he and Oden will be in the All-Star game next season. Injuries permitting, of course (knock on wood). Drew’s lack of HIGH SCHOOL experience is one factor in his rapid development that is underappreciated by most observers, so that’s a good point by Josh.
by The Dude Abides on Nov 24, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Good points
Ford’s comparison, in which he focuses on defense, is to Kevin Durant. And I agree with him more, there. Assuming Oden can stay healthy, I’d probably take him over Durant. Though… 3 years from now, we may be saying, “What were we thinking??”
I agree with you, The Dude, in thinking that Bynum’s defensive instincts will improve with experience. He’s certainly got the physical tools to be as good, defensively, as Oden. I’d say coaching is a factor, too — PJ harps on it in the media, but at the same time, he’s not as much a defense coach as some in the league, and with the triangle being such a focus, that could tempt Drew into continuing to focus on offense, as well.
Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs
Yeah
but I do little a worry about Bynums explosiveness as far as jumping and moving laterally and jumping to get rebounds. Even though hes looked solid, I have unfortunetely noticed that his 07-08 explosiveness just isnt there. I really hope this is just temporary.
by desecrator09 on Nov 24, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
Well I disagree
they even have a poll on ESPN.com on Bynum or Oden, I would choose Bynum but they do have a point, Oden will block more shots but Bynum will give you more points, I guess I would take them both as one but if I had to choose, I’d go with Bynum because he is still young and learning and defense can come along so I wouldn’t worry about it.
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
Oden is 4(ish) months younger.
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 27, 2009 3:54 AM PST up reply actions
My only dissapointment is that this game isn't in NY
so that leaves me with my second thing to look forward to which is a blow out so that my favorite Laker UPS throws it down more than once. Besides, he might be facing Kryptonate in the dunk contest so that would be a great preview for him (Nate) to see who will replace him as the next little man dunker of our generation.
I think smashing the Suns made me realize how far Kobe and the Lakers have come from five years ago, when the Suns had the world at their feet.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Nov 24, 2009 11:47 AM PST reply actions
To see him dunk over Nate...
Priceless
by true_lakerfan on Nov 24, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
oh hell yeah!
I think smashing the Suns made me realize how far Kobe and the Lakers have come from five years ago, when the Suns had the world at their feet.
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Nov 24, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Those LBJ - Wiz links are hilarious
See the phrase “undeserved entitlement” in the post
The fans also let LBJ have it. Sarah Schorno, for example, tweeted this: “Highlight of my night…getting called a [bad word] by LeBron….I told him to quit crying and take his fouls like a man. He looked at me and said ‘[Bleep] you.’ Then it was on.”
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
I may be more subtle
But you remember your rant, in a game thread a bit ago? I’m in your club.
Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs
by Josh Tucker on Nov 24, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Nooo
You are above that, Josh!
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on Nov 24, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Hahaha
Sssshhhhhh…..
Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs
by Josh Tucker on Nov 24, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
He's crazy...
But as long as he’s serious on the court and not a distraction there, I don’t care what he does off the court.
by LakerFANtilDeath on Nov 24, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
Artests seems more zany and goofy
Than crazy to me.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gils_Keloids on Nov 24, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
it made more sense after seeing the interview though
he wasn’t just in his “underwear” for completely random reasons…
Looks aside, Ron has a nice body
could of made the cover of those ESPN The Magazine: The Body Issue
There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.
maybe the knicks will get him if they fail in the 2010 free agent sweepstakes
Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

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