Lakers Finally Snap Nearly Season-Long Losing Streak

by DexterFishmore on Nov 2, 2009 8:00 AM PST in Game Recaps Comment 38 comments

All right, guys, I've come up with a great play on words for you. You're gonna love it. You ready? Here goes:

The Lakers last night were "Pau-less" but not powerless. Ha ha! I know, right? My jokes rule. I bet there's gonna be a little something extra in my paycheck this week for that one.

But enough with my side-splitting japery... we have a game to discuss, we do.

Putting the Friday night Dallas horror show behind them somewhat, the Lakers posted a near-rout of the Atlanta Hawks on Sunday. The game was close for a half, but a 22-0 Laker firestorm in the third quarter sucked the oxygen out of the Hawks' upset bid. Sucking of a different kind took place in the fourth courtesy of the Laker scrubs, whose lousy play forced the starters back in for mop-up duty and shriveled the margin of victory to eight points.

I've plenty more thoughts about the game I'd love to share with you, but to read them you're gonna have to click below. Come on, dude, just humor me.

For a couple years now, the Hawks have hovered in the second tier of the NBA's caste system. They're nothing amazing and don't have much depth, but they can scare the true contenders when their jump shots are falling. Such was the case last night in the first quarter, when Joe Johnson went completely batshit insane.

Johnson can shoot like a mofo, and with 3:15 left in the first he'd scored 18 points on 7-for-8 from the field. Kobe Bryant had initially been assigned to guard him but had been roaming for steals, and Johnson punished him for it. Phil Jackson soon decreed that Ron Artest should instead take the assignment, and the switch worked out splendidly. Ron's more physical defensive style more or less neutralized Johnson, who shot 1-for-8 the rest of the way.

With their primary weapons system eliminated, the Hawks struggled for pointage. One of two major problems was the Lakers' height. Atlanta surrendered an inch or two at nearly every position and could never find good inside looks. The long J's kept dropping for another quarter or so, but that wasn't going to last all night. For the game, the Hawks scored a respectable 1.09 points per possession - full game stats can be found below - but that figure is skewed by fourth quarter garbagio time. At the end of the third, by which time the outcome was no longer in doubt, the Laker D had held them to less than a point per possession.

Turnovers were the other big difficulty for the Hawks. A full fifth of their possessions ended without their getting a shot off, and numerous of those led to Laker runouts and dunks. Atlanta's not an especially turnover-prone team, having posted the league's sixth-lowest turnover rate last year, so credit the Lakemen's snarly D.

Kobe tore things up pretty nicely with the ball in his hands. He found the shooting riddim that had eluded him so far this year and finished with 41 points on 34 shots. (FYI, I define the term shots to include missed attempts that draw a shooting foul.) He and the other starters all moved the rock with purpose and precision. In both the second and third quarters, the Lakers sliced apart the Hawks' defense to the tune of more than 1.40 points per possession.

Bynum had a good game that could have been great. He was guarded primarily by the shorter Al Horford, who had no hope whatsoever of bothering him. Andrew missed several easy looks at the rim but still threw in 21 points on 17 shots. He collected only three boards, which obviously isn't enough, but several times he kept plays alive with tap-outs.

Lamar Odom, for his part, is the early-season MVP of this team. He once again played a marvelous all-around game with a stat line to match: 11 points, 8 assists, 14 rebounds (four offensive) and a game-high plus/minus of +19. His sparkling play and Pau's absence both remind us how so very screwed the Lakers would be without him.

	Poss.	TO%	FTA/ FGA	FT%	EFG%	TS%	Off Reb%	Def Reb%	PPP
Lakers	101	16	0.29	84	56	60	34	67	1.17
Hawks	101	20	0.29	89	49	55	33	66	1.09

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I feel like Ron plays better when he has someone to stop

Sometimes he seems a little out of sync on the court, but when he is in charge of stopping someone, his play improves greatly. That doesn’t necessarily turn into points for him, but it seemed like it turned into turnovers and easy buckets for the Lakers.

by stephens on Nov 2, 2009 8:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Truth to this, for sure.

HIs offensive game is a mess, but when he has a defensive challenge, he can be pretty danged intimidating…

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Nov 2, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

...and that is the most important thing.

They brought him here to defend Carmelo, Paul Pierce and LeBron. Not for offense. Offensively, we are the best team team in the NBA no matter who our SF is.

by wondahbap on Nov 2, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know that I buy that, since Trevor is a top-tier defender himself...

It was a pissing contest between Mitch Kupchak and Trevor’s agent, and Ron Artest snuck into a smooth position during the brief moment the door was open.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Nov 2, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Trevor was a good defender.

But he had trouble with strong SF. Yeah, it was a pissing contest, but they had Ron Ron standing right next to Trevor, but Ariza didn’t know it. The FO never even blinked before making the decision.

by wondahbap on Nov 2, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good. NOT top-tier. Not yet.

And he was too wiry and light, no strong enough, to be able to go up against Carmelo, LeBron, Pierce, etc. All about the matchups.

For example: You might see Ariza get a couple sweet steals against Joe Johnson. But you would not see Ariza switch over and instantaneously shut down a guy that had just put in 18 in the first quarter. No way, he’s not that kind of defender.

Strength & Honor
It's good to be the Champs

by Josh Tucker on Nov 2, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The big advantage Trevor had on Ron

Was that he could guard fast PGs (cough Parker cough), but that’s really situational. And what we lose with that, we gain with Artest’s ability to guard twos through fours. Given the predominance of franchise wings in the NBA today, I’d say having a lockdown defender for that group is more valuable.

In any case, Ariza isn’t the same type lockdown defender; he’s a better in help defense than in one-on-one situations, especially against players that can overpower him.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Nov 2, 2009 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The PG position really concerns me for this team

Fisher is done. It’s obvious by watching him that he’s through as a productive NBA player, especially after watching him try and defend Dallas’ PG in the game the other night.

I think that Brown has played really well, but I’m just not sure that he’s the answer. Farmar seems like he’s regressing, he can’t guard any of the good 1’s in the league, and his shooting hasn’t been very good for most of last year. He’s streaky and he makes a lot of really stupid mistakes.

I do think that there is a remedy out there though:

Chicago is going to be moving Kirk Hinrich at some point this season. I don’t think they’re going to want anything in return except for some expiring deals to get their cap down as low as it can go for the summer of 2010 so they can add some pieces to their team to go along with Derrick Rose. The rumor is that they’ll try to woo Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh next summer, turning them into an instant contender next season in the East.

Now, the Lakers have Morrison, Farmar, Brown, and Fisher (as well as Mbenga and Josh Powell) as expiring deals. They could move two different combinations of players (Morrison, Fisher or Morrison, Farmar/Brown, Mbenga/Powell) for Hinrich. The first deal would be the best one for the Bulls, as they would shave nearly $22M off of their cap figure 2010 with that deal. That would add to the $9-$12M they’d already have below the cap figure for next year and give them a really good shot at Wade or Bosh (or possibly BOTH if Wade takes a discount to go home, which is doubtful).

I like the move for the Lakers because Hinrich is the perfect PG for the Triple-Post offense:

He’s a knockdown shooter from 3.
He can defend both 1’s and 2’s with his size and length.
He doesn’t have to have the ball in his hands to be an effective offensive player.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Lakers are pretty much out of the trading derby for anybody good because they've got a very shallow, very overpriced bench and are deep in Luxury Tax Hell...

They really need to figure out how to get low enough in the draft to get somebody who can eventually make a difference. And they need either Shannon or Jordan — or both Shannon AND Jordan — to really step up.

I’m with you that Fish is at the end of the road, more or less, and the Lakers are really playing 4-on-5 with him on the floor. But that’s not necessarily insurmountable, the Magic went all the way to the NBA Finals last year going 4-on-5 with an unproductive rookie Shooting Guard…

Still, it’s something that is going to have to be addressed pretty quickly. Maybe not this year, but pretty quickly.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Nov 2, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Read "high enough in the draft" — I always say that backwards...

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Nov 2, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Lakers have

Farmar as an asset, and Ammo’s expiring contract. That should be more than enough to make a trade with. Let’s not also forget that Fish will not make $5 mill next year, IF he’s even asked back. I don’t see that happening unless the Lakers offer him the vet minimum. So you’re talking about $7 million this year they could take back in a trade, then add a few million more next year. I doubt the Lakers would look to keep the Salary the same next year if they could avoid it, but maybe they could trade for a quality guy ifthey wanted to. At least, that’s what it seems like. I’m not Larry Coon or ShamSports kind of CBA expert.

by wondahbap on Nov 2, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So who wants Farmar, I ask?

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Nov 2, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There's always a sucker.

History has taught us that.

by wondahbap on Nov 2, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh, talent/potential has always been an easy selling point

And if you’re getting an expiring contract, you at least want to know it has the potential to be productive (Farmar) instead of being complete dead-weight (Morrison).

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Nov 3, 2009 12:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually think that Chicago might want him

He’s still young, and has the potential to be a very good guard in their type of system, which gets up and down the floor with transition. He’d be their backup guard, kinda like Hinrich is now.

The key for Chicago is getting as much money off of their cap for next summer as possible, and moving Hinrich, who is owed $9.5M for the next three seasons, is the best way to do that.

I do think that Chicago could do better in terms of finding expiring deals out there, but I’m not sure the teams that have a lot of expiring contracts are going to want to trade them for a guy making nearly $30M bucks over the next 3 seasons either.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Heinrich.

I’m not sure if he’s a 9.5 million guy, but Heinrich would be a nice fit here. He can play some D, and shoot fairly well.

by wondahbap on Nov 3, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's grossly overpaid

for what he does — considering that Rondo will make $11M per season with his extension, and he’s twice the guard that Hinrich is.

However, the fact that he’s so grossly overpaid is actually what gives the Lakers the opportunity to get him. There are a lot of teams that aren’t going to overpay for anyone right now, even though they have more expiring deals to give back in trade. Chicago would trip $9.5M off it’s cap for next year with Hinrich alone — if they get back $7M (Morrison, Mbenga) plus a back up guard like Jordy for cheap, they will have the most cap space available next year, currently they have the third most. If they’re $25M under the cap, it would allow them to give max money contracts to one or even two of the big free agents next year.

They are essentially in an arms race with Miami for expiring contracts….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ehhh.

I don’t think Rondo is an $11 million guy. But Boston had to give his money.

by wondahbap on Nov 3, 2009 8:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I do

He was top 5 in both assists and steals last year in the league, he shot over 50% from the field, and he can pretty much get wherever he wants on the floor with the dribble, not to mention harass the holy hell out of the other team’s opposing PG. He averaged nearly a triple double in the playoffs last year (16.9 P, 9.7 R, 9.8 A).

The league is becoming more guard oriented every year over the last half decade, because of the rules changes and the emphasis on perimeter play. He’ll never be a great three point shooter, but neither is Tony Parker, and he’s a very effective player at that position. I think that Rondo is a bigger, stronger version of Parker who is just as quick and is developing a better jump shot.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong, he's very good.

His defense is valuable. But in this market? I don’t think so. He’s worth $11 million to Boston, not as a player overall. I think he is very lucky to have leverage. Ray Allen most likely isn’t going to be re-signed, and Boston cannot afford to let both players leave. So, they spent the summer trashing him trying to lower his appeal and value. I think they gave him money because they had to, not because he is really worth $11 mill. That $11 mill now is basically what $15-17 mill was 2-3 years ago.

I really hate to use his situation of playing with KG, PP, and Ray Allen as a crutch (because it is what it is), but you put him on another team and he gets $7-8 million.

Not only is he not a great 3-pt shooter, he can’t shoot period. I watch the C’s regularly and he still the same shooter. A PG. Parker is consistent with his mid range. It keeps defense honest.

by wondahbap on Nov 3, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Overpriced bench could be a luxury for other teams

especially if those overpriced players are expiring contracts becauseadd up to a huge chunk of someone else’s salary cap relief. But, I don’t think that when it is all said and done if the Lakers do something before the trade deadline it will not involve getting rid of Fisher via trade.

"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Nov 2, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the lakers won't trade fisher regardless

imagine how pissed kobe will be…

though, i also can’t say if fisher will be back as a laker next yr. if he’s not about the money, i’m pretty sure he’ll be back.

by Nostance on Nov 2, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I figure Phil has Fish move to the off the bench “Ron Harper” veteran type guy assuming that they can get any of the youngsters to step up enough the start.

Plus trading for a new PG is not a short term deal. I figure it would take the new guy until at least next season before they’re comfortable in the offense.

by lazNirv on Nov 2, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich has always struck me

As the type of guard Phil would ideally like; question has always been Chicago’s willingness to move him. They’re arguably one of the most attractive 2010 destinations, as they have a solid young core, an attractive city, and a ton of cap space. Out of the teams with the most cap space next summer (in order: New Jersey, New York, Miami, Chicago, Minnesota), they definitely have the best core to insert a marquee player into (OKC and the Clippers don’t have max-level money). Moving Hinrich would be quite conducive to that, and with Rose there, he’s becoming an increasingly redundant presence.

The two questions that we need to ask here are again, whether Chicago wants to move him and whether Buss is willing to take on Hinrich’s salary. If Chicago wants to move into the playoffs, then having Hinrich coming off the bench is invaluable, especially with Rose’s defensive deficiencies and the alternative being Jannero Pargo. That said, their current core isn’t going to progress that much, and given that the competition for the East’s middle tier (Washington, Atlanta, Toronto) is much stronger than last year, the possibility of a five or six seed is a bit of a stretch.

As for Buss, he’s paying a lot of dough for this current lineup, and Hinrich is overpaid for his production, but he does have a friendly deal that decreases in value year-to-year and Buss has always been supportive of paying for championship-caliber squads.

Honestly, it makes sense for both sides, but that often isn’t enough for something to happen in the NBA.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Nov 3, 2009 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Chicago can do better in terms of expiring deals...

but I’m not sure they can get back a good backup PG like Farmar from any other team. As I said above, I think that Jordy fits in very nicely with their team. He’s better with the ball in his hands creating off the dribble, and he can knock down an open shot if needed.

Hinrich is the perfect PG for this Laker team. He makes us better defensively with his size and length, he’s a better spot up shooter than Fisher is at this point in his career, and he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective on the floor offensively. In other words, he’s Derek Fisher circa 2001-2003 except with better size.

I don’t think that the Lakers would trade Fisher, I only included him because he was an expiring deal. I do think that they’d be open to trading Morrison, Jordy, and Powell (I think they need Mbenga’s size down low for inevitable Bynum injury), which makes that trade work, assuming the Buss wants to add Hinrich’s salary to the books for the next three years.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

one thing to remember ...

all this is perfectly true BUT there is the all important consideration of team chemistry to consider. Fish is a team leader and senior statesman and a guy who is not afraid to take the HUGE shot … AND make it! Those guys are not easy to find. Perhaps a trade where he comes off the bench might make sense but to trade him away is a big mistake.

by matrickz on Nov 2, 2009 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

trade fisher? unlikely

I was going to say the same. Lakers won’t trade fisher unless for some reason we were getting a ridiculous all-star for him.

Yes he is declining, yes he is a trade asset, but he is way too popular and a leadership presence to give up. Lakers are not going to trade him away. He earned his place as a Laker. Trade away a great leader, Kobe’s best friend on the team, the PG Jackson’s trusts innately… no way.

Hinrich sounds great, but we would have to overplay farmar, brown and all our expiring contracts when we play the bulls. Unleash them. Then offer bulls all our expiring contracts.

get off me bandwagoners!
http://blog.cleancutmedia.com

by cleancutmedia on Nov 2, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think they'll trade Fisher

I included him because he was an expiring contract and Chicago would be interested in him.

However, you don’t keep a guy because he’s made some big shots. If we did, we’d still have Robert Horry on the team too. It’s clear if you watched the playoffs last season and the pre-season this year that Fisher is pretty much done as a player. Look at his numberspost All-Star break last year. He’s declining. He’s not the 40%+ shooter from deep like he’s been in the past, and he can’t stay with the good PG’s in the Western Conference any more. They basically had to bench him in favor of Brown and Farmar in the Rockets series last year because their little waterbug guards were blowing by him every trip down the floor. Look at his minutes in that series, then look at the rest of the playoffs. If Jameer Nelson is anywhere near game shape in the Finals, the Lakers would have been in trouble without Brown, who came out of nowhere last year after being a trade throw in for salary reasons. Now, look at all the guards in the Western Conference. Of the above average teams (Portland, San Antonio, Dallas, Clippers, Denver, Utah, New Orleans), Fisher really only matches up with Portland and Denver, because Blake isn’t much of a factor offensively, and Billups is over the hill as well. Parker, Kidd, Davis, Williams, and Paul will get anywhere they want to on the floor against Fisher, and that isn’t good for the team defense of the Lakers. It will get Odom, Artest, and Bynum in foul trouble constantly because they will have to protect the basket and be out of position all the time.

I love Fish as much as the next guy, but we have a floor leader already, and playing 4 on 5 at each end of the floor for 30 minutes a game isn’t going to get this team back to the Finals.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 8:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I love reading the words “the Lakemen’s snarly D”. If they can keep that up, the offense will obviously work itself out.

I remember last year Phil talking about how when the bench comes in to hold a lead/blowout. The bench dudes get excited about the scoring aspect of the game instead of focusing on tight defense which is usually how the Lakers got the lead to begin with.

by lazNirv on Nov 2, 2009 11:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

PS. I like the title too “Lakers Finally Snap Nearly Season-Long Losing Streak”. Thanks for a good laugh.

by lazNirv on Nov 2, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

lack of a PG

I know…dreaming…but

Artest, Farmar, Morrison, Powell for CP3
Then maybe CP3 can wipe Rondo’s face all over the Boston Garden parquet floor

by crapsrfun on Nov 3, 2009 9:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Lakers don’t need Chris Paul until they get a new coach.

by lazNirv on Nov 3, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be a really bad trade for the Lakers.

Who’s going to run with Paul? Who are the Lakers going to put in the pick and roll with Paul? They don’t have any players that can pick-and-pop like David West does.

You’re not going to run the triangle offense with him, that’s for sure. The Lakers offense is predicated on ball movement and timely movement away from the ball on the backside when it is at it’s most effective. Chris Paul has to have the ball in his hands 80% of the time on the offensive end to be an effective player. I really don’t think Kobe is going to want to give up the ball that much, especially since he’s a better offensive player than Paul is.

Not a good trade for this team as currently constructed. Look at all of Phil’s PG since he started coaching the Bulls back in ’90:

’90: BJ Armstong, John Paxson
’91: Same
’92: Same
’93: Same + Trent Tucker
’94: BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr
’95: BJ, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr
’96: Harper, Kerr
’97: Harper, Kerr
’98: Harper, Kerr
’00: Harper, Fisher, Shaw
’01: Harper, Fisher, Shaw
’02: Fisher, Lindsey Hunter, Shaw
’03: Fisher, Shaw
’04: Payton, Fisher
’06: Smush Parker, Aaron McKie
’07: Parker, Farmar
’08: Fisher, Farmar
’09: Fisher, Farmar.

Notice anything? There are no “true” lead PG on that list. None. B.J. Armstrong is the closest guy to being an actual lead guard, but Pippen brought the ball up a lot of the time for those Bulls teams to start the offense. Notice what else they have in common? Nearly every guy on that list was a good spot up shooter from 3 point range and good defensively against other guards.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nearly every guy on that list was a good spot up shooter from 3 point range and good defensively against other guards.

Yep. That’s all we need. I wouldn’t want a PG who dominates the ball as much as CP#, unless we ran a completely different offense. As great as Paul is, he’s not what the Lakers would need.

It was supposed to be Sasha. But he’s reverted back to 06-07 Sasha.

by wondahbap on Nov 3, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

re: trade

Your predicating that the triangle offense is the best offense for the Lakers….

It’s pretty clear to me that the Lakers are most effective when they’re running pick and roll off kobe and letting him distribute. Everyone talks about the triangle offense, but that’s assuming you have knockdown long range shooters, like Paxson, Kerr, etc. This team as it’s constructed now doesn’t have a reliable long range shooter…and no…Artest is not that person. The rest of the league is evolving and the master of the triangle is no longer on the bench. It’s time we evolved as well. I watched the Lakers against the Mavs, and when they were trying to make a comeback in the early part of the 4th before Artest f’d it up with 2 bricks on the free throw line and an ill-advised shot, Kobe played pick and roll and got 3 quick fouls on them.

No matter, the trade is really a pipe dream but in reality it’s an upgrade for the Lakers in personnel and takes the ball handling duties away from Kobe and Odom. Besides I think that just as Magic made Worthy better by getting him the ball in places on the floor where he could do something with it, Chis Paul could do the same for Kobe, Pau, and Odom.

Regardless of what the homers may think, this is not that great of a team beyond the starting 5 (minus Artest), and neither Fisher nor Kobe are getting younger, which is why the trade for Artest becomes even more glaring.

by crapsrfun on Nov 3, 2009 9:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You still didn't address either question

Who runs with Chris Paul on this Laker team? They don’t have big men that like to get out in transition, and they don’t have players who can step into a wing 3 on the break either.

Who runs the pick and roll with Paul? Odom? He’s not a pick and roll player. Gasol? Maybe, but he’s not a great shooter outside of 15 feet or so. They don’t have a David West type player to run those pick and roll to the bucket or pick and pop for the jumper. Magic and Worthy are not apt comparisons to the current league rules or this current Laker team. Odom is actually a much better player with the ball in his hands than James Worthy ever was. Worthy was a great finisher, but he wasn’t a stellar ballhandler.

Wait, so you took a slice of the 4th quarter of a game in which the Lakers were down by 15+ points, didn’t have their second best player, and were playing against the Mav’s second unit (with Kidd, Dirk, and Terry on the bench) as the reasoning for why the pick and roll is a better offense for the Lakers than the triangle? That’s horrible analysis on your part. Kobe doesn’t need the pick and roll plays to draw fouls, he could simply go to the post in the Triangle and create the same havoc — which is what he worked on all summer long.

When they have Fish, Kobe, Odom, Bynum, Gasol, Artest healthy, the triangle will be a great offense because you will have multiple finishers and a bunch of guys who are very deft passers in the half court. You don’t need great knockdown shooters to run the triangle effectively, although it doesn’t hurt. What you really need are players at the 2, 3, and 4 spots that are very good passers and a post player who can be effective in the high post like Gasol. I would suggest buying this book before you declare that you know what you’re talking about, because it’s clear that you don’t.

This is why I think Hinrich is a great fit in L.A. He’s a good three point shooter and has a good handle at the PG spot.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 3, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why are we even talking about CP3?

by wondahbap on Nov 3, 2009 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I know

Shinn would have to be in a complete financial meltdown, and even then, CP3 is practically the only thing that sells tickets for NO.

That said, anyone under the illusion that adding CP3 wouldn’t make us a mortal lock for the Finals and the team to beat for the next decade is out of their mind.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Nov 3, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs