Ice Cube on Kobe vs. LeBron: Wondah linked this in The Credits, but it deserves front page run, because Ice Cube just ended the Kobe-LeBron debate in 63 seconds.
9 months ago
Josh Tucker
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don't tell me about rebounding
i don’t wanna hear about that shit
Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
by princeton11loveshalos on Nov 12, 2009 10:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
ice cube is aready my favorite rapper
and he just made me like him even more. i’ve been arguing with people for years that you cannot compare players who play different positions and have different roles in different systems. it makes no sense
Maybe I Was Expecting Too Much
Seems he didn’t really say anything that says why Kobe’s better, just explained away the rebound/assist numbers.
Take that PER...lol
“Kobe is the standard, all them tryin to be him”
“that’s all I gotta say about that shit”
Classic. yey…yey!
Kobe on Shaq (2003) - "But this is his team, so it's time for him to act like it. That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court.....no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. Also, "my team" doesn't mean only when we win; it means carrying the burden of defeat just as gracefully as you carry a championship trophy."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Nov 12, 2009 4:54 PM PST reply actions
I don’t know. I admire Kobe’s dedication and work ethic. The fact that he worked with Hakeem this summer makes his post game even better (and it was already pretty good). Plus he does everything pretty well, except for maybe shoot 3s in mass quantities (which is difficult for star players with so much defensive attention, Jordan never did it that well).
Having said that, Kobe has visibly lost a step in physical ability and athleticism. He has made up for some of that with basketball IQ and practiced moves but you can’t beat gravity and what it does to your body.
LeBron possesses an unnatural amount of athletic ability, even compared to NBA players, some of the best athletes in the world. Not to mention he’s also listed at 6’8’’ and 250 pounds (more like 270, guy is built AND ripped). This guy will dominate ANYONE in the league physically. He is either too fast or too big for whoever guards him. He can play any position 1-4(and he frequently plays point forward with his dribbling ability) and starting last year he committed to the defensive end. He also improved his jumper a couple years ago and is a good jump-shooter (not as good as Kobe but still). He averaged a near triple-double last year and will probably do it again this year.
In short, if LeBron isn’t already better than Kobe, he will be soon. Kobe is one of the greatest players of all time but LeBron will be too and Kobe is starting to decline.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
Rich Town,
I think all players loose a step in their 30’s. No surprise there. I will not argue with athleticism at all. Lebron has that category hands down. But his game is one dimensional. You are a Spurs fan so I am not sure if you watch the games but his game is so limited that his team does what Kobe did when he had Smush, Kwame, Deveon, Mihm on the starting line up. Which is for everyone to run to the corners and let Kobe take everyone one on one. But there is a huge! difference in Kobe’s youth compared to Lebron’s youth which he is in right now.
Since Kobe has been a rookie he has improved every single year. He has become stronger, a better shooter, defender, post player, rebounder and so on…
Lebron on the other hand, has become stronger and? He has been in the league 6/7 years and he still has no post game, has no mid-range game, his shot has improved somewhat but after 6 years it is still not enough. Kobe has prepared himself because he knew his body would decline and I don’t see Lebron doing that. Kobe improved his game in the 1st 3 years of his career more than Lebron has in his 6/7 years in the NBA. What will happen when his athleticism declines? We already know what Kobe can do?
Kobe on Shaq (2003) - "But this is his team, so it's time for him to act like it. That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court.....no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. Also, "my team" doesn't mean only when we win; it means carrying the burden of defeat just as gracefully as you carry a championship trophy."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Nov 12, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
All very good points.
In response, I would say that LeBron’s athleticism is so great it makes up for alot of deficiencies in his game. He’s also not as deficient as some might think. His shooting has never dipped below 47.2%, omitting his rookie year, which is good considering the amount of defensive attention he receives. He has committed defensively(which is all you need when you have the quickness and size to defend at the NBA level) and has never had trouble rebounding.
One point I will concede is that his post game is lacking. However, few wing players in NBA history have a post game equal to Kobe’s because, according to him, it’s something he’s developed it his entire basketball career. It’s always been a part of his game and I’m sure game tape would confirm that.
Kobe, by percentages, has actually not improved his shooting at all but is consistently right around his career mark of 45.5%, never having a season higher than 46.9% or lower than 42.8%(excluding his rookie year since we did it for Lebron).
Now, am I going to argue that LeBron is a better jumpshooter than Kobe? No, stats don’t show the TYPE of shots that each player takes, with LeBron getting more dunks than fadeaways and vice versa for Kobe at this point in their careers. However, I will point out that Kobe was also a high flyer early in his career and still didn’t have FG percentages as high as Lebron.
Perhaps Lebron has not improved as much as Kobe did early in his career, but you must remember: Lebron is 24, he has not even hit his prime yet, and there is still time.
Other than what we’ve both laid out here, what is it that Kobe does that LeBron doesn’t do? What am I missing?
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
I agree that LeBron is the better player physically...
…but I have to strongly disagree that the Mamba has “started to decline.” I mean, have you watched Kobe play this year? He’s expanding his game even more, and he’s looked deadly in the process. His post game, which was already fantastic, has improved and will continue to improve.
Put it this way, if Steve Nash 34 (I believe, maybe 35), is still performing at a high level, Kobe can and will continue to play at his championship level. If you want a more similar comparison to Kobe, I’ll have you know that Michael Jeffrey Jordan won his last title at age 35 while leading the league in scoring. I think I’ll pencil in Kobe for superior play till at least 33 thank you very much.
The Kobe/MJ debate is long and endless, but even the most ardent Jordan lovers will agree that Kobe’s work ethic/desire is on par with Mike’s. That alone will keep him going till 33 at least. GO LAKERS!
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
I was referring to his body/athleticism declining. I have no doubt Kobe’s game will last well into his 30’s with his commitment to improvement and conditioning. I’m with you on the superior play til at least 33. Probably longer.
Couple points though:
1) There is no Kobe/MJ debate. Michael is CLEARLY better. He’s the GOAT, he never had Shaq (a top 10 player all-time) and he never EVER would have let game 4 of the 2008 finals happen. EVER. I agree that their work ethics/desire our similar and unrivaled.
2) Steve Nash is a terrible example to make your point with. He NEVER could play defense, (save a few drawn charges) and he is an excellent player in a system that is tailor-made for his style of play and produces bloated stats. He never averaged more than 8.8 assists until he got to Phoenix, where he has had ALL of his best seasons AFTER he turned 30. How does that make sense? It is an absolute TRAVESTY that he has two back-to-back MVPs and it makes me sick. Love the guy though.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
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