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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Dribble-Step-Step: Get Over It

As you may have noticed, the NBA has updated their rulebook to allow two steps after gathering the ball from a pass or dribble.

As Henry Abbott pointed out this morning, the overall reaction from fans has been negative. (Check out his post for a sampling of responses.) Henry disagrees with this response, supports the NBA's move to make the rulebook reflect the reality, and exhorts us to see this as a positive thing.

In this case, I fully agree with him. I'm here to tell you that it's not a big deal, the game is not being watered down, and you need to just get over it. And best of all, I am going to use a linguistic argument in my attempt to convince you.

Star-divide

My parents are linguists. Both have Masters degrees in linguistics, and my dad is fairly close to completing his Ph.D. They met in Israel, speak fluent Hebrew, and my dad is one of the world's experts in ancient Hebrew. When I was in grade school, my parents were Bible translators. In elementary and middle school, we lived in Switzerland and France, and our whole family is fluent in French. My dad now works for a leading language assessment company, and is considered the leading expert on language assessment.

As you can imagine, I grew up with language and linguistics being a common topic of conversation in our house. We discussed dangling modifiers, referential ambiguity, subject-verb agreement, and when to use dont instead of que in French, the way most American families discuss last night's episode of Survivor or Lost.

One of the things I remember well is my dad's discussion of a common mistake in the study of etymology. Etymology is the study of the history of words, and how their form and meaning have changed over time. (For most of us, the furthest extent of our exposure to the study of etymology is a quick glance a root words when studying vocabulary.) The common mistake when studying etymology is to try to discern the meaning of a word, or to better understand a word, by looking at its root words. This is a mistake. I can still quote my dad word for word on this: "A word's meaning is determined by its usage, not by its etymology."

Basically, he is saying that a word is defined by how it is used, and not by what it meant when it came into being several hundred years ago. The reality of language is that it is practically a living thing, and it changes and evolves with the culture of those who speak it. A word's meaning can change significantly, even in as little as 30 or 40 years. Consider the word gay: Once, not very long ago, it was used almost exclusively to convey a pleasant emotional state; now, today is used almost exclusively to indicate sexual orientation.

How does this relate to basketball? The basic concept is the same: Reality is not determined by what is contained in some rulebook, but by what actually happens in real life. And the rule book should reflect reality.

Both Henry and the original ESPN article make two key points:

  1. This is not actually a change in reality; it is merely a change in the how we speak about reality. That is, nothing about the game has changed in the slightest; only the rulebook has changed. As far as dribbling and traveling are concerned, the basketball you see this year will be identical to the basketball you watched last year and the year before.
  2. This is not a recent thing. Jordan, Magic, Cousy, and Maravich all did it. So claiming that the game was somehow purer or better in the '90s, '80s, '70s, or '60s is wrong. As Henry pointed out, the father of an NBA official (and not a young one), who was also an NBA official, attests that the game has been called this way as long as he can remember. That's probably close to a century back.

So to those that claim this changes anything in the present, you're wrong. It simply changes how we describe the present. And to those who claim that it represents a change, either drastic or gradual, over the past — even the distant past — you're also wrong. It has been this way as long as anyone can remember.

In reality, all that the NBA has done is change the rulebook to align with reality. And it can only be a good thing to align the two. If anything, it leaves less room for baseless complaints made out of context by people who don't understand that this has always been the reality of the game. And in that way, as far as I'm concerned, it might just make the game a slight bit purer.

In all things, it is reality itself, and not some arbitrary abstraction, that determines the nature of things. It is true in linguistics and grammar, and it is true in basketball. So stop complaining, because this rule change isn't worth it. The basketball you watch today may be different than it was in the past, but it's not because of this rule change. A traveshamockery this is not.

 

Note:  Apologies to my dad if I have butchered any linguistic terms or concepts. He's the expert; I just grew up around it.

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This is new to me...

So if a player is in the post and catches the ball and has control of it he can take two steps? Isn’t this the crab dribble lol!

well Lebron doens’t have to worry about this since he has no back -to-the-basket post game.

"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Oct 16, 2009 11:18 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm still not sure if this needed to be set in stone,

but I agree with your point on “the NBA has done is change the rulebook to align with reality.”

But as far as two steps then passing? That should always be traveling. I don’t remember seeing a player be allowed to gather the ball, take 2 steps then pass. On any level. Two steps then a shot is fine. Not two steps then a pass, or to steps then a dribble.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that is what this rule is really changing. Thetwo steps before the pass and dribble. That is, was and always should be traveling.

by wondahbap on Oct 16, 2009 12:09 PM PDT reply actions  

agree with you on the two steps and pass, that is traveling, that's different and I'd like

to see how that actually is done in a game

There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

by BrittneyM on Oct 16, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is what I disagree with:
The new rule reads, in part: “A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.”

That was always a travel. Shooting is fine. Not before a pass.

by wondahbap on Oct 16, 2009 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

I can recall plenty of step-step-passes. That, in my mind, happens all the time. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think it does. Two steps and then a dribble is not mentioned in this rule, that I saw.

Also, this appears to apply only to a person in motion. So, this does not mean that a person standing still could receive the ball, then take two steps, then pass or shoot. I think it has more to do with accounting for a player in motion.

Kinda like ultimate frisbee, which gives you a step or two (or three, depending on who you’re playing with) to account for motion before you’re required to stop. And in reality, I would say that this could be the reason for which the reality is what it is. Because it can happen that, when approaching the basket or making the pass, you don’t have room or time to complete a second dribble AND pass, but you also aren’t in position to complete the shot or pass if you don’t take that step. Throw in a player in full motion, and often times, it just makes sense for a player to be allowed two steps. Three is exorbitant, and should always bee called a travel. Two was the letter of the law, but hasn’t been enforced in the recollection of any living human beings.

Two is common practice, has been the reality for ages, and makes decent sense.

Besides, I can’t really see how anyone can definitively say one step is better than two, when (a) one step hasn’t ever really been enforced, and (b) as long as everyone is playing by the same rules, it affects everyone equally. Which brings me to another reason for which this is a GOOD THING. Players are allowed 2 steps all the time. But as long as the rule book says 1 step, then there will probably be a graduated scale. Rookies and subs will be officiated more closely to the rule, and superstars will be officiated more closely to the common practice of ignoring the rule.

Making 2 steps the rule means that the rookies and scrubs are now entitled to what the stars already get. Thus, if anything, this rule makes it MORE likely that the same rule will apply to all. Again, good thing.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Oct 16, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah.

No dribbling mention. I jumped the gun.

by wondahbap on Oct 16, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

as a practical matter

Kobe often passes out of a jump stop. Very pretty, in my opinion. Under many executions of the jump stop that would be two steps then the pass.

by BrianTung on Oct 16, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate the jump stop as well.

No matter who does it, because it is abused often. To the point that refs at many levels aren’t sure whether to call the blatant travels because they let too many slide.

by wondahbap on Oct 16, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

After the jump stop you can use either foot as the pivot foot. Kobe uses that positioning really well. But sometimes he does travel and because his decision making and the opponent reaction is so quick, everyone misses it until its on the highlight reel.

Case in point, (spurs fan here), there is a video, from last season I think, where Kobe gets manu to fall for his fake and then sidesteps him towards the basket. Manu’s instinct was actually correct, because Kobe switched pivot foot there and the sidestep should have been a travel. But heck, it never looked that way live, until I saw it later on replay.

by LionZion on Oct 18, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is what I am talking about. But well, here Kobe is actually doing a step back, again two step after dribble for stop. If he had actually done a correct jump stop backwards, the subsequent move would be legal. But he got way with it and we are none the wiser for it.

by LionZion on Oct 18, 2009 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Funny Story

When writing this, I couldn’t remember the term for a pronoun that has an ambiguous or missing antecedent. I thought I remembered my dad calling it a decapitated pronoun, or something like that, but couldn’t remember. So I texted him. Here’s how our short conversation went:

Me: Hey, what is the term for a pronoun with an ambiguous or missing antecedent?
Him: Poor writing.
Me: Haha. So there is not a term for that?
Him: No technical term for that phenomenon but the technical term for what is required to repair it or understand it is referential ambiguity resolution.
Me: Well then wouldn’t the term be referential ambiguity?
Him: Yes. But I like poor writing better!

Funny stuff. Unfortunately, while I agree with him, referential ambiguity worked a lot better for this post than poor writing.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Oct 16, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Your dad is mad at you

For butchering the note at the end. Or botching. Or butching, fine (apparently that’s slang for botching in some parts of the country).

I just want any form of the hop step to be outlawed. It’s just too weird a move.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 16, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions  

the jump stop?

I like it; it’s one of the most acrobatic moves in the game and I’d like to see it continue.

See? It takes all kinds. :)

by BrianTung on Oct 16, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's just very disorienting

Because as a defender you think the player has already jumped and can’t land, and you change your defense accordingly

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 16, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you're meaning to make your defender think you've used up your steps when you perform a jump stop?

Is that really the intent?

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 16, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry. The pump fake and hop step cannot be compared.

A pump fake is not up for interpretation. The hop step involves jumping off of 2 feet, then landing. Making it a travel no matter what rule was ignored. Two steps or not. Whenever you jump off of 2 feet, it’s a travel if you do not pass or shot before landing. One foot? Fine, since you get two steps.

by wondahbap on Oct 17, 2009 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

good link

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/01/01/bernie.ask.bernie.20090101/index.html

About two-thirds of the way down is a Q&A about the jump stop. Whether or not you think it’s commemorated in the rules now, this is the interpretation they were going with. By and large, I think the travelling calls in the league were consistent—they just weren’t by the book. Now, ostensibly, they will be.

by BrianTung on Oct 17, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess...

…where I play, the jump stop is used frequently enough that I’m used to seeing it, and play and defend accordingly. It does take a certain amount of rhythm to execute effectively.

by BrianTung on Oct 17, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

The game has been called this way for years...

…the rulebook is just being “officially” modified now. If fans could grasp this, they’d get over it.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

by Justin N. on Oct 16, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree 100%

I don’t see anything wrong with it as long as the calls are consistent. But then again, these are replacement refs. That will be interesting.

"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)

by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Oct 16, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes yes yes yes yes

Not a linguist, don’t even play one on TV, but that is one of my pet peeves. My wording: Etymology is a poor guide to meaning. I have some guesses as to where you dad stands on the prescriptivist vs descriptivist spectrum.

My pet example is nice (originally from L. nescius = ignorant). Over time it has meant stupid, foolish, wanton, showy, dainty, elegant, neat, refined, strange, extraordinary, pampered, unmanly, coy, modest, fastidious, meticulous, subtle, exact, trivial, critical, delicate, well-executed, and finally, pleasant or agreeable. That word has been around!

by BrianTung on Oct 16, 2009 5:53 PM PDT reply actions  

English is confusing

I would bet that there have been over a million internet flame wars over what amounts to a disagreement of the definition of a word.

A: “He’s a dirty player!”
B: “No he’s not”
A: “But he breaks the rules”
B: “That’s not how I define a dirty player”
A: “But you agree he breaks the rules”
B: “Yes, but that’s not dirty”

A: “He should be the MVP”
B: “Is he the most valuable player?”
A: “He’s the best. To me most valuable means the best”
B: “To me most valuable means if you take him off the team, how well would his team play?”
C: “To me, most valuable means most effective.”

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 16, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree...

…except that in place of “English,” I would write “Any natural language.” Natural languages, by their very, umm, nature, incorporate a lot of nuances and hidden assumptions. They aren’t defined explicitly, but by usage, so it will always be confusing. English is unusual in having often so many different ways of saying the same thing, as a result of borrowing from seemingly sixteen million different languages throughout the course of its history.

I don’t have a problem with the ambiguity in the examples you post. There really is no good reason to define MVP explicitly; I’m perfectly fine with it being a hodgepodge of different perspectives (each represented by some number of voters), as long as they each vote their conscience. It’s when they start voting for non-basketball rationales—most popular, for instance—that the problem arises.

by BrianTung on Oct 17, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like programming language

No poetry, no ambiguity, strict set of definitions.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 18, 2009 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

in principle, yes

But it’s not all that useful for life outside the computer, and I’m not sure “no poetry” is a plus in my book…

Besides, how many different dialects of the various programming languages do you have out there? And how many different incompatible compilers? If what you said were literally true, no one would have to port for different OS’s, just different languages. Java helps, but where I work, we still have issues because of Java 5 and 6.

by BrianTung on Oct 18, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

0100101110011111

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 18, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely descriptivist

Another good example:

Never end a sentence with a preposition!

Few people know this, but this is actually a Latin grammar rule, which does not apply correctly to the English language. In fact, following that rule is nearly impossible, and if you actually try to do it, your speech will be consistently awkward. That should NEVER be the result of proper language usage.

What happened there was old school grammarians took that rule from Latin and applied it arbitrarily to English. It was not true of the English language. It is not true of the English language. And all of the greatest native English-speaking authors have felt free to use end a sentence with a preposition.

Yes, definitely descriptivist.

Strength & Honor
16...15...14...13...12...11...10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

by Josh Tucker on Oct 21, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

or the other Latinate bugaboo

Split infinitives. Borrowed from Latin where, of course, the simple infinitive is a single word and therefore unsplittable. (OK, German allows splitting of single-word infinitives, I think. But not Latin.)

Back to terminal propositions for a moment: Attributed to Churchill is the comment, “That is the sort of arrant nonsense up with which I will not put.” OK, he probably never said that (just as Dorothy Parker probably never said half the stuff she said), but it’s still pretty good.

by BrianTung on Oct 22, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I agree as someone who has thought the rule was like that already so

that means I’ve been traveling since forever and every player has been traveling so I don’t get the negative out pour players have been doing the two step since forever so people should get over it and NBA did the right thing for once.

There are basic Fundamentals that are needed to move forward in this game. Always keep your guard up at all times to avoid being caught in a trap. Overcome the fouls that will be commited against you REBOUND AND PRESS ON. ADJUST to the LimeLight: ALL-STAR PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. Know what your role is and play your position. Find a game plan and execute it. REMEMBER YOU ONLY GET OUT OF THE GAME WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

by BrittneyM on Oct 16, 2009 11:19 PM PDT reply actions  

looks like...

…the jump stop is explicitly allowed by the new travelling rule, by the last two sentences of part (b):

b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball. The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously. A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor. A player who lands with one foot first may only pivot using that foot. A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.

In a typical jump stop—let’s say, a right-handed one—you drive off your right foot and gather the ball as you step off your left. That’s the first step. You then land on both feet; after you land, you cannot pivot and you must shoot or pass if even one foot leaves the ground. If there’s any leeway, it would be the simultaneous landing of both feet; it’s obviously impossible to insist on perfect simultaneity (or enforce it, for that matter).

by BrianTung on Oct 17, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions  

After the jump stop, you CAN pivot I believe. Thats how its been played for a while. I remember doing it as a kid. This would be 15 years ago :P

by LionZion on Oct 18, 2009 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

according to Bernie Fryar, you can't

See here, about two-thirds of the way down the page:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/01/01/bernie.ask.bernie.20090101/index.html

The “stop” in “jump stop” is the second step, as it is usually executed.

by BrianTung on Oct 18, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

The one that I don't have an answer for is the jump off two feet and land on two feet hop step

You can only jump off one and land on two, right?

Some guy was doing jumping off two and landing on two in my league and the ref was fine with it. I wasn’t so sure.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 18, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

See Brian Tung's comment

And also think of it this way: you only get two steps, what the jump stop does is combine the second “step” into a landing on two feet simultaneously.

That’s why the two feet must land at the same time in order to be considered only one “step”.

After that, you cannot move your feet (no pivoting), except to jump (again, off two feet), in which case you cannot land with the ball, as you have already used your two steps.

"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson

by Gils_Keloids on Oct 18, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with you that the jump stop step is the second step and therefore should be the last step. And no further pivoting from there.

But the problem, and pretty much the issue we are debating here I believe, is that at game speed, there is no way to clearly define the ‘first step’ jump stop. Under past rules, if followed to the letter, a lot of current first step jump stops would be second step.

So with new rules, I guess it does make officiating easier and it becomes easier to see a ‘third’ second step lol, if i am making any sense :P

by LionZion on Oct 18, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

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